He won't play ahead of Martial, Rashford or Pogba in such position that's my point. He will be either a winger or a backup, and it's illogical to pay 35m for a backup player.
Memphis Depay | Atletico player
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He can play anywhere up top as part of a three and at number 10. We need depth, 35 million euros is cheap.
I didn't mention any mould or criteria for a PL winger though. What are you talking about? I said that succeeding as a winger in PL is harder than in other leagues, better fullbacks, less space and more defensively oriented teams. Unlike LA Liga and Ligue 1.
And I said he won't be ahead of Martial or Rashford in striker position. If he comes here he will be a winger or a backup. Paying 35m for a backup is illogical.
I don't think he'd fancy being backup anyway.
aye look, no offense, but this is getting weird. You are not about to play revisionist when it comes to posts you made like a hour ago. This is what you said:
which prompted me to say that the notion of “a PL winger”, whatever that is, is comical because a multitude of wide players with different playing styles have been successful in this league.
And Depay not displacing Rashford or Martial is arguable. It is not as if he doesn’t have a chance. In fact, taking into consideration their performances and output over the past 2 seasons, many would give Depay the edge, and rightly so. He’s not doing it in Ligue 1, which as already stated, often provides the PL with some of its best players, he is also doing it at an international level and CL.
Yes. I did said a PL winger, however I didn't mention any "mould" or criteria for that PL winger that you went on and said in your post:
So what's that "mould" of a player for the PL winger that I mentioned and you find successful players that don't fit it, or did you just put an explanation out of your head for the "PL winger" phrase and proceeded to post based on that?
Some wingers don't succeed in England and can't adapt to it because they can't play in narrow spaces or against tightly packed defenders and full backs which is a common theme in England unlike other top leagues, while such players play better in open spaces.
Some just don't work out at certain clubs or under certain managers. Example Salah at Chelsea vs Liverpool
Given Depay was young and United were struggling, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that he cannot cut it in the PL
Salah barely played at Chelsea at all to analyze his period there though. 11 matches in his first half of a season and was decent iirc, next season featured in 8 games before getting loaned, most of them were subs in last 5 minutes or so. Depay did played a lot under LvG as a starter or from the bench. 45 games in his first season. I don't see both are comparable, even if I can say it's fair enough if you don't want to jump to conclusions.
John Barnes disagrees.
I like what I've seen from him at Lyon and I suppose if I could snap my fingers and put him in our squad for Sheffield United I'd for sure give him a try, but getting another player we've already had for tens of millions doesn't sit well with me. Additionally I'm not convinced the improvement he'd bring to our forward options would justify the outlay.
We are not looking to buy him back at all. Spurs are looking for him not us
The point I am more making is that sometimes it isn't just the league, but also the team, especially for a young player. I'd be interested to see how he would do in the PL now that he is more mature.
I wouldn't buy him back though, but my point is more that I don't assume just because of his time at United he couldn't cut it in the PL. There are many reasons why he may not have worked out
This is a fair enough point, even if it disagrees with my opinion on him, but I have no problem with it.
That's not illogical at all 35m is nothing in a position that many argue that we haven't replaced Lukaku in & Rashford can't play as a striker.
Let's see though, I think it's completely illogical to think 35 million is too much on a squad player able to compete with our current forwards.
You can add some more money on that 35m and buy a main starter player in midfield or attack instead of paying it for a backup player, but opinions.
Versatile forward and good goalscorer, he would be our best finisher along with Martial. It’s tempting.
He'd have to assured a starting role, maybe in the number 10 position and moving sometimes with injuries. There's plenty of injuries and games but I don't see it working out playing second fiddle, he'll need to have a role penciled in somewhere.
I don’t know what you are struggling with/don’t understand
and why you keep going on about this, you were the one to say Depay is not “a PL winger”, I still don’t know what the feck that is, and my stance is that such thing does not exist, as multiple wide players with varied playing styles have succeeded here.I don’t know what the miscommunication here is, Is English your first language? and I don’t ask this in a condescending manner, genuinely, but when you state that “Depay is not a PL winger” in the context you did, the implication is that one such thing exists = there’s a mould.
I don’t see why Depay would not succeed in England. And again, he hasn’t been a winger for a couple of years now.
Ask a third party in this thread to read our exchange, if needed be.
He is not a LW but not better than Martial at CF (for now).
How's his set-pieces been since he's left ?
I remember that particular element to his game getting quite abit of buzz when he first arrived here.
I remember that particular element to his game getting quite abit of buzz when he first arrived here.
When dId I mention anything about his actual style of play, or did I even compare him to other players with a style that succeeded in England? Bring me any line in my posts that has the word "style" in it. What I said is he's not suited for PL football. When you asked I said why I thought so. Just because you interpreted it in such a way, it's not really my problem.I don’t know what you are struggling with/don’t understand
I don’t know what the miscommunication here is, Is English your first language? and I don’t ask this in a condescending manner, genuinely, but when you state that “Depay is not a PL winger” in the context you did, the implication is that one such thing exists = there’s a mould.
Ask a third party in this thread to read our exchange, if needed be.
His failure at United before means very little in regards to the player he's now except mentality wisse as that stint probably helped him in that aspect.
Has anyone seen Salah in his Chelsea days whenever he was playing?
He was deployed as a defensive winger by Mourinho and barely showed any attacking qualities. I remember him one game in FA cup against a lower league team; he was so devoid of confidence he had a shot that went for a throw-in.
He went to Italy, showed his worth and the rest is history. Memphis will never be the same level but he showed tons of improvements since his time at United, and he could come back and succeeds in the PL.
Has anyone seen Salah in his Chelsea days whenever he was playing?
He was deployed as a defensive winger by Mourinho and barely showed any attacking qualities. I remember him one game in FA cup against a lower league team; he was so devoid of confidence he had a shot that went for a throw-in.
He went to Italy, showed his worth and the rest is history. Memphis will never be the same level but he showed tons of improvements since his time at United, and he could come back and succeeds in the PL.
It's funny to see people talking like we should only have a good 11 and that's it. So what if we have a starting attack (and even then we should have competion), have people not seen the state of our bench?
This is a squads game. If we actually have any aspirations to reclaim our place in the top of world football we need two good players in every position. I didn't see City fans complaining when they bought Mahrez to reinforce their already stacked strikeforce. And it don't even have to be him, there's probably at least 25 strikers/forwards anywhere in Europe that will be upgrade on what we have already.
This is a squads game. If we actually have any aspirations to reclaim our place in the top of world football we need two good players in every position. I didn't see City fans complaining when they bought Mahrez to reinforce their already stacked strikeforce. And it don't even have to be him, there's probably at least 25 strikers/forwards anywhere in Europe that will be upgrade on what we have already.
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Qft. Our bench wouldn't make most other top club's bench.
bruv, are you a madman? you said he's "not a PL winger", multiple times I've said I don't fecking know what the feck that even is, and that I find the notion of "PL winger" comical.
Yeah kind of confusing. He is strong, direct, quick. Skillful with a decent shot. If there even was such a thing as a 'PL winger', how is this not it?
He's not coming back just to sit on the bench, that doesn't make any sense.
He doesn't have to just 'sit on the bench'. He can fight for his place and play on merit. If he wants to play at the peak of the game that's how it's going to be for him. Look around at the other elite teams and that is exactly how it works.
Depay was a cocky so and so at Man Utd who didn't live up to the hype and didn't work hard enough to make the best of himself. He's another Jlingz style person and he should have no place in the kind of Man Utd fans want to see built. I'm glad he's doing well in the French league, that seems his level.
As United have found out repeatedly over the years, with the transfer of Depay being one example, any amount of money is expensive if it's spent on the WRONG PLAYER. And Depay is the wrong player. If they're not coming in, at that age, to be a first-teamer and impact the first team in a definitively positive way, on and off the field, they're the wrong player.
That's not a style of play though. You go on and interpret a phrase made by someone the way you like, replay on it based on what you assumed, then keep posting about it accusing the other poster of not understanding. It's pretty weird. Again I explained what I meant with my posts already 2 times and it has feck all with the style of play you kept mentioning, and I'm not derailing this thread any further than that.
Realistically the only position he can play for us is the Pereira one. On paper he looks like the lone forward for Netherlands but their formation resembles more of a diamond formation with Depay behind two forwards. It would be a nightmare for both him and us if we sign him to play in the Martial position.
Eitherway, if he comes he will not have a guaranteed starting position.
Some people are having a laugh, he is a much better player than all our attacking options bar Martial. His best role is just behind the striker and guess what? We have nobody good enough there.
He is nowhere near the same player than under Van Gaal. Not even close.
He is nowhere near the same player than under Van Gaal. Not even close.
Are you really from France mate? We have Pogba for that position, especially now that we finally have a decent and settled midfield pair. Pogba can play deeper in central midfield, but it's such a waste playing him in the Fred role. He'd be an upgrade on Pereira and Mata obviously, but would be behind Pogba and like many others i'm still unconvinced about playing him out wide. For about 30m we can do alot worse, but the question is whether or not he'll be happy to sit on the bench again.
Yeah but in my view Pogba is as good a gone. Memphis will cause havoc in that team if you have a hardworking midfield behind him and our front three.
But we are clueless.
As a second striker he can be dangerous, but i'm not sure he has enough in his game to be our playmaker, which requires alot of holding up the ball, playing in his teammates and controlling the tempo. In France, he has much more time and space on the ball as well. I have a feeling he'l be tossed out wide again if he were to come back.
He's clearly a much better player now than he was at United. And he'd be a big upgrade on the likes of Lingard and Mata with regards to offensive contribution (I know their roles are different but still).
I don't think of him as a playmaker even though he has an eye for a pass but more of a second striker in the way Solskjaer want us to play. Lingard and Mata played that role under the manager and there are nowhere near playmakers. And to be honest he can do all the things you say you just have to look at him when he plays with the national team.
I’m not sure that is actually clear. In a few of the Lyon games I caught last year, where he played on the left, he was virtually the same frustrating watch. Centrally he’s a different player.
I’m not mentioning playstyle nothing, that was me elaborating on why I find the “PL winger” notion comical. I used that as a segue. I keep asking you what the hell is a “PL winger”, what is that?
such a bizarre conversation.
>“Not a PL winger”
”that notion is comical. a multitude of wide players have succeeded in the PL. there’s no mould for PL winger. also Depay has not been a winger for years”
>”I didn’t say anything about mould”
“?? what? you said he’s not a PL winger the implication being that one such a thing exists”
>”what’s this playstyle thing you are talking about? I never said that”
“bruv, are you ok?”
I mean I explained that 2 times already in 2 previous posts. I get it you don't read or you don't want to read? Really weird.I’m not mentioning playstyle nothing, that was me elaborating on why I find the “PL winger” notion comical. I used that as a segue. I keep asking you what the hell is a “PL winger”, what is that?
such a bizarre conversation.
>“Not a PL winger”
”that notion is comical. a multitude of wide players have succeeded in the PL. there’s no mould for PL winger. also Depay has not been a winger for years”
>”I didn’t say anything about mould”
“?? what? you said he’s not a PL winger the implication being that one such a thing exists”
>”what’s this playstyle thing you are talking about? I never said that”
“bruv, are you ok?”
For the last time I'm going to explain my opinion. Yes a "PL winger" phrase exists. But it has nothing to do with the style of play each player has, but it requires certain skills and assets that you must have and are less needed in more open leagues than LA Liga and Ligue 1 that have more spaces, and more offensively oriented teams. Most midtable and bottom clubs in premier league play low block, park the space and tighten spaces in the back. Very few games against big teams in PL have open spaces. That's not true for LA Liga and Ligue 1 where teams are more offensively oriented, and big clubs score loads in such games quite easily.
Many wingers fail to deal with the narrow spaces and the better fullbacks PL have ahead of othe surrounding leagues and flop here. Depay was the same like that. He did well whenever he played in Europe League or CL. However most times he came against a PL fullback they contained him pretty easily and he ended up doing nothing. Him succeeding in a more open league doesn't show that he was actually suited to Premier League and its nature, because as I said, whenever he faced teams in Europe that was given the same wide spaces as teams in Ligue 1 do, he actually did well. It's simply harder to succeed as a winger (or as a midfielder btw) in England than in other big leagues around,for various reasons. That's how the term "not suited for PL" is used a lot for many players and it's accurate. It has nothing to do with his style of play, more to do with how he deals with being pressed thus needing to react faster before losing the ball (because PL defenders don't give you much time) , operating in narrow areas and tightly packed defenses against better defenders. If you don't have skills to operate in such circumstances you will flop in England.
Your replay on the initial post was that many players of different styles and varieties succeeded in England. No one really put a certain style of play as a criteria for wingers to succeed in England. I never said that you need to play of certain style to be a good premier league winger. You could have asked from the start what I meant from my initial post but you simply assumed I meant certain style and your replay was players of different styles and moulds succeeded here. Pretty weird, especially after I already clarified my initial point in the 2 posts I quoted above. Having certain skills needed to succeed in PL had nothing to do with what your style or your "mould" as a winger is.