MEN banned from the press conference today | Some journalists banned for running articles without approaching United for comment first

[Cheimoon]

I've mentioned before how you have an incredible ability to twist and turn arguments to suit your agenda. That doesn't make them right though - it just makes your posts on the topics of Sancho and Ten Hag incredibly frustrating. For example:

On the dictatorship point, even LvG showed some flexibility towards the end of 2015 when he responded to player criticisms about training. ETH is “my way or the high way” to an extreme extent. He is taking advantage of a vacuum of power at the club. We almost exclusively get his signings, he seems unresponsive to complaints about the training schedule and its intensity, while persisting with the same failing tactics.

You don't know any of those for certain about Ten Hag. You without fail take for granted any rumours or news that paint a negative picture of Ten Hag, and dismiss whatever is positive about Ten Hag. It's confirmation bias, not good reasoning.

Totally banishing Sancho in that manner unless a public apology was given is considerably egotistical behaviour. Why can’t he accept a private apology and draw the line there? It was him and not Sancho who initially brought the issue to the public sphere.

He boxed Sancho into a situation where a public apology would imply the manager is correct about his professional application. Why would it be in Sancho’s interests to decrease his future earning potential and career prospects like that, just to continue holding bench? What would Ten Hag have gained from a public apology apart from humiliating Sancho? Would it increase his authority in the dressing room? Clearly not, as evidence by dissent towards towards his treatment of Sancho.

Ten Hag only said that Sancho wasn't selected based on 'performance in training'. That's a pretty mild comment. It was Sancho was escalated that into a major row through his Twitter post, where he accused the manager of lying. (I know, it was more vague, as he only wrote 'I will not allow people saying things that [are] completely untrue.' But if he didn't refer to Ten Hag there, that could have been cleared up very easily and no row would have ensued.) I don't know either what Sancho thought to achieve with that and how it was supposed to advance his career, but it is what it is, he did post it.

Given the public nature of his statement, it therefore makes sense to demand that Sancho apologize in public for that post. It doesn't mean that he has to apologize for not working hard enough; Ten Hag anyway didn't say that, because 'performance' is a broad term. But at which football club do you think Sancho would have been able to get away with this sort of public statement without any public apology or retraction? What specifically is egotistical from Ten Hag in not accepting this sort of clearly unacceptable public statement?

In addition, the current issues with Cas and Varane, experienced players the squad needs who have won far more than anyone else including the manager, are also dictatorial. If you want to raise standards at the club do you alienate such players or do you try to use their influence to get them onboard and behind the project? Less than a year ago they were an instrumental part of a trophy winning team and now all of a sudden they are detrimental to these apparent standards he is trying to raise? Make it make sense!

The fact he’s trying to get rid of these two legends of the game implies that they are a threat to his authority. It’s deeply concerning that he is falling out with every player in our squad who has a high standing in the game. It just smells of insecure control-freak that can’t handle big personalities and prefers to surround himself with yes-men that do as their told without complaint. This might work at a smaller club like Spurs or Arsenal, but at United you need to be able to work with superstars. Or, at least, the United of yesteryear. Not this version of United where being a point behind a City side in a crisis is celebrated as some sort of achievement while Arsenal and Liverpool are fighting for the title!

This is a great example of you jumping on rumours in the way that's most negative for Ten Hag. Apart from your logical leaps, where is the actual evidence that he considers Varane and Casemiro detrimental to standards or a threat to his authority? Why can't they just be expensive players that are becoming surplus to requirements and are therefore allowed to leave in January or this summer if they want? Your interpretation just smells of confirmation bias of someone you have develop a deep-seated dislike for.

2. You said: “It does appear… by main players' interview this week that the stories of a deep dressing room rift/crisis/whatever were indeed vastly exaggerated, if not simply untrue”. Do you honestly think someone is going to come out publicly and say its true? These leaks are players putting pressure on the club to either get Ten Hag to be more accomodating or to get rid.

This is another example of your theory basically being unbeatable: any evidence to the contrary you simply dismiss as being unreliable. If you get to that point, you've gotten into the realm of pseudo-science and conspiracy theories - it's a key characteristic.

3. Using the Chelsea game as an example of tactical success is hilarious. Chelsea are terrible and have been so all season, largely because they play a similar way to us. Their squad is also poor and they lack experience. That being said, our tactical weaknesses were still on show and a better team would have beaten us convincingly. Chelsea’s goal took advantage of our man-to-man press as team have done all season to attack us through the middle. Enzo moved wide, McTominay followed him, the passing line through the middle was open for Mudryk to get on the ball and set up Palmer. The man-to-man press is still being exploited. McTominay saving our skin again is also funny considering that Ten Hag tried to get rid. Likewise for Maguire. The fact we’re relying on players he tried to get rid of should be a red flag by themselves.

I didn't say the tactic worked perfectly, I just said that it's odd to speak of 'disgusting tactics' right after the game. 'Disgusting tactics' I associate with parking five defensive busses along the box, or deliberately kicking the shit out of opposition. An imperfect attacking tactic that provides plenty of entertainment may not be genius, but it's hardly 'disgusting'.

And you can the use of McTominay and Maguire whatever you like, but their use actually goes against your characterization of Ten Hag. As an egotistical dictator, isn't he supposed to freeze them out or otherwise mistreat them, as unwanted players that failed to leave? Instead, they are having key roles now, and Ten Hag is actually adapting his tactics to their presence on the pitch. You turning this into a negative on Ten Hag is red flag by itself.

4. You’re suggesting that there is no mutiny due to the result against Chelsea. You can’t cite our wins as a measure of squad morale being high. We’re likely to win most of our games because we simply have better players. Even in the darkest days of the Moyes, LvG, Jose, Ole and Ralf periods we still won consistently. But what do our performances say? There are too many games whereby we have been dominated across the entire 90 minutes and even in those where we beat weaker teams, we did so unconvincingly and could have easily lost heavily.

Yes, but the Chelsea result was a team win that resulted from everyone working their socks off in support of the tactic adopted. There have been plenty of instances, also this season, that moments of individual brilliance one the club games; but not the Chelsea match. I'm not saying this one match is conclusive evidence of squad support for Ten Hag (or at least of the starting 11), but it's about as reliable as those rumours about unrest. But as usual, your confirmation bias makes you reject one and accept the other - and then draw harsh conclusions on the basis of that.

7. I understand that it is the club’s duty to protect Ten Hag. Can’t really complain about the banning of the journalists, even if it was ordered by Ten Hag himself. That being said, the circumstances that led to it, namely the grievances of the dressing room, are a red flag and they were totally avoidable had Ten Hag been more competent.

That's again assuming those reports of dressing room unrest are true - as discussed above.

 

[stevoc]

Totally banishing Sancho in that manner unless a public apology was given is considerably egotistical behaviour. Why can’t he accept a private apology and draw the line there? It was him and not Sancho who initially brought the issue to the public sphere.

He boxed Sancho into a situation where a public apology would imply the manager is correct about his professional application. Why would it be in Sancho’s interests to decrease his future earning potential and career prospects like that, just to continue holding bench? What would Ten Hag have gained from a public apology apart from humiliating Sancho? Would it increase his authority in the dressing room? Clearly not, as evidence by dissent towards towards his treatment of Sancho.

In addition, the current issues with Cas and Varane, experienced players the squad needs who have won far more than anyone else including the manager, are also dictatorial. If you want to raise standards at the club do you alienate such players or do you try to use their influence to get them onboard and behind the project? Less than a year ago they were an instrumental part of a trophy winning team and now all of a sudden they are detrimental to these apparent standards he is trying to raise? Make it make sense!

Is this true though? Did he really demand a public apology?

An apology for Sancho's Tweet?

 

[JagUTD]

All of our post-Moyes managers have tried to put standards in place. Even Ole tried the whole cultural reboot thing, Ralf came with the “open heart surgery” talk. LvG and Jose also came with strict standards and were quite ruthless about trying to get rid of those who they didn’t rate.

On the dictatorship point, even LvG showed some flexibility towards the end of 2015 when he responded to player criticisms about training. ETH is “my way or the high way” to an extreme extent. He is taking advantage of a vacuum of power at the club. We almost exclusively get his signings, he seems unresponsive to complaints about the training schedule and its intensity, while persisting with the same failing tactics.

Totally banishing Sancho in that manner unless a public apology was given is considerably egotistical behaviour. Why can’t he accept a private apology and draw the line there? It was him and not Sancho who initially brought the issue to the public sphere.

He boxed Sancho into a situation where a public apology would imply the manager is correct about his professional application. Why would it be in Sancho’s interests to decrease his future earning potential and career prospects like that, just to continue holding bench? What would Ten Hag have gained from a public apology apart from humiliating Sancho? Would it increase his authority in the dressing room? Clearly not, as evidence by dissent towards towards his treatment of Sancho.

In addition, the current issues with Cas and Varane, experienced players the squad needs who have won far more than anyone else including the manager, are also dictatorial. If you want to raise standards at the club do you alienate such players or do you try to use their influence to get them onboard and behind the project? Less than a year ago they were an instrumental part of a trophy winning team and now all of a sudden they are detrimental to these apparent standards he is trying to raise? Make it make sense!

The fact he’s trying to get rid of these two legends of the game implies that they are a threat to his authority. It’s deeply concerning that he is falling out with every player in our squad who has a high standing in the game. It just smells of insecure control-freak that can’t handle big personalities and prefers to surround himself with yes-men that do as their told without complaint. This might work at a smaller club like Spurs or Arsenal, but at United you need to be able to work with superstars. Or, at least, the United of yesteryear. Not this version of United where being a point behind a City side in a crisis is celebrated as some sort of achievement while Arsenal and Liverpool are fighting for the title!




Very constructive contribution



Yep. They told me I don’t need to get answers from the horse’s mouth as his cultists will do his speaking for him




Let’s approach this one by one.

1. Ten Hag cultists isn’t just redcafe posters. Also applies to those who defend him unconditionally everywhere, beit on the Caf, Twitter, Facebook… whatever. It’s those who will always make an excuse for him, no matter what.

2. You said: “It does appear… by main players' interview this week that the stories of a deep dressing room rift/crisis/whatever were indeed vastly exaggerated, if not simply untrue”. Do you honestly think someone is going to come out publicly and say its true? These leaks are players putting pressure on the club to either get Ten Hag to be more accomodating or to get rid.

3. Using the Chelsea game as an example of tactical success is hilarious. Chelsea are terrible and have been so all season, largely because they play a similar way to us. Their squad is also poor and they lack experience. That being said, our tactical weaknesses were still on show and a better team would have beaten us convincingly. Chelsea’s goal took advantage of our man-to-man press as team have done all season to attack us through the middle. Enzo moved wide, McTominay followed him, the passing line through the middle was open for Mudryk to get on the ball and set up Palmer. The man-to-man press is still being exploited. McTominay saving our skin again is also funny considering that Ten Hag tried to get rid. Likewise for Maguire. The fact we’re relying on players he tried to get rid of should be a red flag by themselves.

4. You’re suggesting that there is no mutiny due to the result against Chelsea. You can’t cite our wins as a measure of squad morale being high. We’re likely to win most of our games because we simply have better players. Even in the darkest days of the Moyes, LvG, Jose, Ole and Ralf periods we still won consistently. But what do our performances say? There are too many games whereby we have been dominated across the entire 90 minutes and even in those where we beat weaker teams, we did so unconvincingly and could have easily lost heavily.

5. I explained why I think ETH is a dictator/egotistical control freak in my response to GB.

6. I remain Ten Hag OUT until convinced otherwise. For this, I need to see a consistent improvement in performances. I would be happy for him to turn this around and even all the cultists to come laugh in my face and tell me “I told you so!”. I just want the best for United and my view is that Ten Hag is a detriment to our ambitions.

7. I understand that it is the club’s duty to protect Ten Hag. Can’t really complain about the banning of the journalists, even if it was ordered by Ten Hag himself. That being said, the circumstances that led to it, namely the grievances of the dressing room, are a red flag and they were totally avoidable had Ten Hag been more competent.

Nah

 

[glasgow 21]

All of our post-Moyes managers have tried to put standards in place. Even Ole tried the whole cultural reboot thing, Ralf came with the “open heart surgery” talk. LvG and Jose also came with strict standards and were quite ruthless about trying to get rid of those who they didn’t rate.

On the dictatorship point, even LvG showed some flexibility towards the end of 2015 when he responded to player criticisms about training. ETH is “my way or the high way” to an extreme extent. He is taking advantage of a vacuum of power at the club. We almost exclusively get his signings, he seems unresponsive to complaints about the training schedule and its intensity, while persisting with the same failing tactics.

Totally banishing Sancho in that manner unless a public apology was given is considerably egotistical behaviour. Why can’t he accept a private apology and draw the line there? It was him and not Sancho who initially brought the issue to the public sphere.

He boxed Sancho into a situation where a public apology would imply the manager is correct about his professional application. Why would it be in Sancho’s interests to decrease his future earning potential and career prospects like that, just to continue holding bench? What would Ten Hag have gained from a public apology apart from humiliating Sancho? Would it increase his authority in the dressing room? Clearly not, as evidence by dissent towards towards his treatment of Sancho.

In addition, the current issues with Cas and Varane, experienced players the squad needs who have won far more than anyone else including the manager, are also dictatorial. If you want to raise standards at the club do you alienate such players or do you try to use their influence to get them onboard and behind the project? Less than a year ago they were an instrumental part of a trophy winning team and now all of a sudden they are detrimental to these apparent standards he is trying to raise? Make it make sense!

The fact he’s trying to get rid of these two legends of the game implies that they are a threat to his authority. It’s deeply concerning that he is falling out with every player in our squad who has a high standing in the game. It just smells of insecure control-freak that can’t handle big personalities and prefers to surround himself with yes-men that do as their told without complaint. This might work at a smaller club like Spurs or Arsenal, but at United you need to be able to work with superstars. Or, at least, the United of yesteryear. Not this version of United where being a point behind a City side in a crisis is celebrated as some sort of achievement while Arsenal and Liverpool are fighting for the title!




Very constructive contribution



Yep. They told me I don’t need to get answers from the horse’s mouth as his cultists will do his speaking for him




Let’s approach this one by one.

1. Ten Hag cultists isn’t just redcafe posters. Also applies to those who defend him unconditionally everywhere, beit on the Caf, Twitter, Facebook… whatever. It’s those who will always make an excuse for him, no matter what.

2. You said: “It does appear… by main players' interview this week that the stories of a deep dressing room rift/crisis/whatever were indeed vastly exaggerated, if not simply untrue”. Do you honestly think someone is going to come out publicly and say its true? These leaks are players putting pressure on the club to either get Ten Hag to be more accomodating or to get rid.

3. Using the Chelsea game as an example of tactical success is hilarious. Chelsea are terrible and have been so all season, largely because they play a similar way to us. Their squad is also poor and they lack experience. That being said, our tactical weaknesses were still on show and a better team would have beaten us convincingly. Chelsea’s goal took advantage of our man-to-man press as team have done all season to attack us through the middle. Enzo moved wide, McTominay followed him, the passing line through the middle was open for Mudryk to get on the ball and set up Palmer. The man-to-man press is still being exploited. McTominay saving our skin again is also funny considering that Ten Hag tried to get rid. Likewise for Maguire. The fact we’re relying on players he tried to get rid of should be a red flag by themselves.

4. You’re suggesting that there is no mutiny due to the result against Chelsea. You can’t cite our wins as a measure of squad morale being high. We’re likely to win most of our games because we simply have better players. Even in the darkest days of the Moyes, LvG, Jose, Ole and Ralf periods we still won consistently. But what do our performances say? There are too many games whereby we have been dominated across the entire 90 minutes and even in those where we beat weaker teams, we did so unconvincingly and could have easily lost heavily.

5. I explained why I think ETH is a dictator/egotistical control freak in my response to GB.

6. I remain Ten Hag OUT until convinced otherwise. For this, I need to see a consistent improvement in performances. I would be happy for him to turn this around and even all the cultists to come laugh in my face and tell me “I told you so!”. I just want the best for United and my view is that Ten Hag is a detriment to our ambitions.

7. I understand that it is the club’s duty to protect Ten Hag. Can’t really complain about the banning of the journalists, even if it was ordered by Ten Hag himself. That being said, the circumstances that led to it, namely the grievances of the dressing room, are a red flag and they were totally avoidable had Ten Hag been more competent.

Your wrong and to many words

 

[Cheimoon]

Is this true though? Did he really demand a public apology?

An apology for Sancho's Tweet?

From what I read (somewhere in the Sancho thread when I was browsing it today), the requirement is a face-to-face apology to Ten Hag, and that the club can then say publicly that this happened.

Actually, it was a quote in one of @the zog's own posts: “Ten Hag wanted an apology to his face, which the club would then communicate publicly as a means of contextualising Sancho’s return to the squad. Sancho pushed back against this double acknowledgment of wrongdoing.” (Source: https://theathletic.com/4915182/2023/10/26/jadon-sancho-manchester-united-apology-row/?amp=1.)

So if this is accurate, Sancho is not being asked to make any sort of public statement.

 

[Alex99]

Is this true though? Did he really demand a public apology?

An apology for Sancho's Tweet?

Nah, he wanted Sancho to apologise directly to him and then the club would just report that they'd made up.

Sancho's a child.

 

[RedDevil@84]

From what I read (somewhere in the Sancho thread when I was browsing it today), the requirement is a face-to-face apology to Ten Hag, and that the club can then say publicly that this happened.

Actually, it was a quote in one of @the zog's own posts: “Ten Hag wanted an apology to his face, which the club would then communicate publicly as a means of contextualising Sancho’s return to the squad. Sancho pushed back against this double acknowledgment of wrongdoing.” (Source: https://theathletic.com/4915182/2023/10/26/jadon-sancho-manchester-united-apology-row/?amp=1.)

So if this is accurate, Sancho is not being asked to make any sort of public statement.

That's being too nice to Sancho and probably in the interest of the enormous salary club is giving him.
A stricter manager and he would not have returned even with an apology.

 

[Fridge chutney]

All of our post-Moyes managers have tried to put standards in place. Even Ole tried the whole cultural reboot thing, Ralf came with the “open heart surgery” talk. LvG and Jose also came with strict standards and were quite ruthless about trying to get rid of those who they didn’t rate.

On the dictatorship point, even LvG showed some flexibility towards the end of 2015 when he responded to player criticisms about training. ETH is “my way or the high way” to an extreme extent. He is taking advantage of a vacuum of power at the club. We almost exclusively get his signings, he seems unresponsive to complaints about the training schedule and its intensity, while persisting with the same failing tactics.

Totally banishing Sancho in that manner unless a public apology was given is considerably egotistical behaviour. Why can’t he accept a private apology and draw the line there? It was him and not Sancho who initially brought the issue to the public sphere.

He boxed Sancho into a situation where a public apology would imply the manager is correct about his professional application. Why would it be in Sancho’s interests to decrease his future earning potential and career prospects like that, just to continue holding bench? What would Ten Hag have gained from a public apology apart from humiliating Sancho? Would it increase his authority in the dressing room? Clearly not, as evidence by dissent towards towards his treatment of Sancho.

In addition, the current issues with Cas and Varane, experienced players the squad needs who have won far more than anyone else including the manager, are also dictatorial. If you want to raise standards at the club do you alienate such players or do you try to use their influence to get them onboard and behind the project? Less than a year ago they were an instrumental part of a trophy winning team and now all of a sudden they are detrimental to these apparent standards he is trying to raise? Make it make sense!

The fact he’s trying to get rid of these two legends of the game implies that they are a threat to his authority. It’s deeply concerning that he is falling out with every player in our squad who has a high standing in the game. It just smells of insecure control-freak that can’t handle big personalities and prefers to surround himself with yes-men that do as their told without complaint. This might work at a smaller club like Spurs or Arsenal, but at United you need to be able to work with superstars. Or, at least, the United of yesteryear. Not this version of United where being a point behind a City side in a crisis is celebrated as some sort of achievement while Arsenal and Liverpool are fighting for the title!




Very constructive contribution



Yep. They told me I don’t need to get answers from the horse’s mouth as his cultists will do his speaking for him




Let’s approach this one by one.

1. Ten Hag cultists isn’t just redcafe posters. Also applies to those who defend him unconditionally everywhere, beit on the Caf, Twitter, Facebook… whatever. It’s those who will always make an excuse for him, no matter what.

2. You said: “It does appear… by main players' interview this week that the stories of a deep dressing room rift/crisis/whatever were indeed vastly exaggerated, if not simply untrue”. Do you honestly think someone is going to come out publicly and say its true? These leaks are players putting pressure on the club to either get Ten Hag to be more accomodating or to get rid.

3. Using the Chelsea game as an example of tactical success is hilarious. Chelsea are terrible and have been so all season, largely because they play a similar way to us. Their squad is also poor and they lack experience. That being said, our tactical weaknesses were still on show and a better team would have beaten us convincingly. Chelsea’s goal took advantage of our man-to-man press as team have done all season to attack us through the middle. Enzo moved wide, McTominay followed him, the passing line through the middle was open for Mudryk to get on the ball and set up Palmer. The man-to-man press is still being exploited. McTominay saving our skin again is also funny considering that Ten Hag tried to get rid. Likewise for Maguire. The fact we’re relying on players he tried to get rid of should be a red flag by themselves.

4. You’re suggesting that there is no mutiny due to the result against Chelsea. You can’t cite our wins as a measure of squad morale being high. We’re likely to win most of our games because we simply have better players. Even in the darkest days of the Moyes, LvG, Jose, Ole and Ralf periods we still won consistently. But what do our performances say? There are too many games whereby we have been dominated across the entire 90 minutes and even in those where we beat weaker teams, we did so unconvincingly and could have easily lost heavily.

5. I explained why I think ETH is a dictator/egotistical control freak in my response to GB.

6. I remain Ten Hag OUT until convinced otherwise. For this, I need to see a consistent improvement in performances. I would be happy for him to turn this around and even all the cultists to come laugh in my face and tell me “I told you so!”. I just want the best for United and my view is that Ten Hag is a detriment to our ambitions.

7. I understand that it is the club’s duty to protect Ten Hag. Can’t really complain about the banning of the journalists, even if it was ordered by Ten Hag himself. That being said, the circumstances that led to it, namely the grievances of the dressing room, are a red flag and they were totally avoidable had Ten Hag been more competent.

Sancho cultist.

 

[horsechoker]

I do think ten Hag should budge a little on getting Christopher Nolan to direct Sancho's apology video, maybe he can make do with Michael Bay

 

[JagUTD]

Sancho cultist.

Santologist

 

[Fridge chutney]

I do think ten Hag should budge a little on getting Christopher Nolan to direct Sancho's apology video, maybe he can make do with Michael Bay

Sancho should take after his almost namesake and write an apology song.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

Are these pricks banned permanently or was it just for that one press conference?

 

[Alex99]

I heard Ten Hag wanted Sancho to recreate the music video to "Sorry Seems to Be the Hardest Word", but the version with Blue, with Sancho as Elton John, and Rashford, Martial, Varane and Casemiro as Blue.

 

[horsechoker]

I heard Ten Hag wanted Sancho to recreate the music video to "Sorry Seems to Be the Hardest Word", but the version with Blue, with Sancho as Elton John, and Rashford, Martial, Varane and Casemiro as Blue.

And ten Hag as Right Said Fred

 

[Alex99]

And ten Hag as Right Said Fred

Double A-Side. I love it.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I heard Ten Hag wanted Sancho to recreate the music video to "Sorry Seems to Be the Hardest Word", but the version with Blue, with Sancho as Elton John, and Rashford, Martial, Varane and Casemiro as Blue.