A lot of that, even if people won't admit it, is down to how people perceive their personalities to be.
also, lol at "serious football forums"
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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also, lol at "serious football forums"
I’d say over their whole careers Messi has been better, the past few years Ronaldo has been better and this season so far Messi is far better.
I agree with this but I don't think it's a question of a serious football forum or not. I am not sure how can you identify such a thing anyway. What I think though is it's always about Messi's level. If he is perceived to have a top season, there is no argument really. When he or his team don't have the best of seasons, Ronaldo comes into it a bit more. Messi simply possesses a level of flair that most football people swoon over much more than they would over the more athletic and physical phenomena that is Ronaldo. It is the same reason Zidane enjoyed a lot of adulation despite being terribly inconsistent. People within the game rightly or wrongly will always favour flair, dribbling, etc ... When these qualities are also possessed by one of the best players ever in terms of statistics, it's just a no context really.
Ronaldo has been more successful lately but better? I am not sure about that. If anything to me, Messi has had one of his most impressive seasons last year. Barcelona were the worst I have seen them since 2008. Their plan was basically give it to him and see what happens. He was making chances and scoring goals at a ridiculous rate. Under Pep, it was such a well synchronised unit that his job was more oriented towards getting the ball in the final third and doing damage from there. After that and especially in the past couple of years, he is playing for a team who without him, would be seriously in trouble. The fact that they were still competing and going toe to toe against Real Madrid is mainly thanks to him.
Yea fair enough, but ultimately the difference between the two really comes down to what they win imo. Ronaldo has been winning things as of late, whereas with Messi he hasnt. I think this season is demonstrating that Messi could have offered more for Barca over the past few years. The team is without Dembele and their other star player Neymar, with Suarez being in terrible form yet Messi is still doing the work for them.
In regards to talent, Messi is probably the best I've ever seen (in my lifetime anyway) but I still think Ronaldo edges it the past few seasons for that reason alone.
That's a fair argument. The highlighted part for me and I'd say the majority of people in football is why Messi is a one off. Talent alone obviously would not make him that but when you add it to statistics that are on par with anyone, it simply leaves no room for argument. I think the ridiculous thing about Messi is even if you take away all the goals, there would still be a legitimate argument for him being one of the all time greats. His touch, passing, dribbling, control, ... are easily on par with the likes of Zidane and Iniesta for example. Without the goals, I can see the narrative being flair vs efficiency or beauty vs machinery. I can see it then being a 50/50. But when you add to all of that, the fact that he is scoring at a similar rate to anyone, I honestly cannot see how it is a contest. Except of course if we consider your criteria about winning with your team which as I stated already is a fair argument.
Messi is the GOAT
Ffs this again.
Ability wise Messi is arguably the best ever. But I don't like his work rate. It is pathetic at times. Basically, he contributes nothing defensively and is allowed to concentrate entirely on the attacking side of the game. Which helps him to be fresh, sharp, productive, etc. By contrast, Iniesta and Xavi have always worked hard for the team.
By all accounts, Di Stefano was very different. He could play everywhere and was contributing defensively as well. His attacking stats were outrageous despite him working hard for the team.
Ronaldo is more limited than Di Stefano too. But Ronaldo has always worked harder than Messi. Roughly, he covers per game 1,5-2 km more distance than Messi which amounts to roughly 60-70 km per season. He has always been more willing to close down spaces and press from the front than Messi.
By all accounts, Di Stefano was very different. He could play everywhere and was contributing defensively as well. His attacking stats were outrageous despite him working hard for the team.
Ronaldo is more limited than Di Stefano too. But Ronaldo has always worked harder than Messi. Roughly, he covers per game 1,5-2 km more distance than Messi which amounts to roughly 60-70 km per season. He has always been more willing to close down spaces and press from the front than Messi.
Nope
Yeah I cant agree with that post either.
Me also , Messi has been working very hard for the team .
I am thinking of the day of his last match at the Camp Nou , boy , it will be a dreadful day for the fans and for the world football .
Are you talking about Ronaldo and Messi or Di Stefano? Based on your precious impressions or hard data?
There are stats out there, you know.
For instance, Ronaldo has covered 37 km in the first 4 CL games vs 29 km for Messi: roughly, little under 2 km per game more than Messi.
Anyone knows that Messi covers between 7 and 8 km per game in the league too. In one of Barca's ties vs Atleti in the CL he covered under 7 km which was shocking stuff.
One would be hard pressed to find a professional outfield player in the big leagues who covers less distance than Messi. His work rate is very poor at times.
Ronaldo averages 9 km per game or more, especially in the big games.
http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2517487.html#/
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That's because Cristiano plays more off the ball than with it, while for Messi it's the other way around. In truth Cristiano is no more hard working than messi on the pitch
Work rate is measured in terms of distance covered and sprints, not in terms of touches on the ball and dribbles. Ederson completes more passes per game than most opposition players, this doesn't mean that his work rate is higher than theirs.
Messi is almost completely absent in the defensive part of the game.
No more than Cristiano.
And the point i'm making is that a guy who plays mostly off the ball is naturally going to move more than a guy who mostly plays with the ball. Both of them are passengers most of the time when the team doesn't have the ball. It's also by design
You are being silly mate.
Most teams who play City rarely see the ball but work incredibly hard to stop them. Soton had just 25 % possession the other night. Didn't they work hard? They did because they run a lot to close down spaces and prevent chances. This off the ball vs on the ball point is completely irrelevant regarding work rate. Ronaldo averages close to 2 km more than Messi per game which is a lot. His movement is superior to Messi's and sort of compenates for his technical deficiencies (compared to Messi).
...your point about Soton actually agrees with my point?(and on that matter, Barcelona average more possession than madrid, which is also parr of the reason why Messi runs less than Cristiano) And sure Cristiano runs a bit more than Messi, but it's not like he's a hard-working, hard-running guy. Messi averages between 7-9 km per game, Cristiano between 8-9.5
Neither is exactly Koke or Eriksen...
Ronaldo has to score to get noticed in a match
Messi can not score and still be motm
Not even a close call who is better, Messi trumps him in every aspect of the game apart from heading and penalites
Messi can not score and still be motm
Not even a close call who is better, Messi trumps him in every aspect of the game apart from heading and penalites
You're back?
Just took a holiday for a whileYou're back?
Close this thread, the debate is over.
The only part of the post that I agree with.
One wins the CL with the best run ever in the knockout stage, the other disappears when the going gets tough.
Indeed, Cristiano is by far the better in recent years.
Pocho has spoken. Close it.
They can take our lives, but they can never take our Messi vs Ronaldo debate!
Even though it’s ludicrous since one is clearly better
It's such a tedious debate because to any sane person Messi is on another level in almost every area. He posses the sublime passing range of Xavi, finishing on par with any of the great strikers in history, dribbling that George Best and Maradona would be proud of, fantastic pace, incredible creativity and vision, brilliant set piece technique, and backs it all up with insane goal and assists stats. He's the greatest ever attacking player. No one else has been more complete.
Back comes the Messi brigade.
Not interested in any discussion, only to state their opinions as facts.
Why not go circle je*k in your precious Messi thread?
Ronaldo needs the team to function, Messi elevates the team to another level. Please close this thread, I feel for Cristiano.
and you are different how exactly?Back comes the Messi brigade.
Not interested in any discussion, only to state their opinions as facts.
Why not go circle je*k in your precious Messi thread?
Where was he during the CL knockout stage? Elevating his team to crashing out at the QF?
You need more than one person to form a circle
Ronaldo once got knocked out in the last 16. What’s your point?Where was he during the CL knockout stage? Elevating his team to crashing out at the QF?
But the debate has to take into account all of their career. We can never say it's over because of one game, one season or even three seasons. Some argue that Ronaldo was a better playmaker than messi until 2007-08. It's easy to see a heavy Ronaldo struggling at almost 33 in some games and conclude Messi is the best overall, but what makes it tricky is that lately Ronaldo has outperformed Messi greatly in the champions league, scoring when it counts most while I agree that Messi has the upper hand in the debate overall, I still remember him playing bad against Atletico in the champions league in 2013-14 and 15-16, plus he couldn't make the difference against juventus in 2016-17 while Ronaldo could. So... is Messi the best ? Sure he is, but it isn't as big of a difference as some people want it to be, like Ronaldo is some sort of overrated player and someone like Hazard or KDB should be in the debate instead of him..no.
I don't ever try to impose my view on others. The Messi brigade thinks their opinion should be shared by everyone, it's almost like religious zealots.
He elevated the team, but not that high I guess.Where was he during the CL knockout stage? Elevating his team to crashing out at the QF?
You're the same. All Messi and Ronaldo fans are the same.
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