Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[dannyrhinos89]

It's time for this debate to end, Ronaldo always has been the better of the two. He gets questioned because of his ego and the fact he used to play for us. The way Ronaldo carries the Portugal team is remarkable.

I fully agree but Messi FC won’t have it, they find it hard to accept Ronaldo is better.

 

[Brwned]

I don't think Ronaldo's better than Messi, but I think both get underrated and overrated in equal measure. Messi's a better natural dribbler, but that doesn't mean Ronaldo's not (was) a very good dribbler - watch him tear up defences in our 06/07 season. Messi's a better passer from playmaking positions - but that doesn't mean Ronaldo's not a good passer - watch the one two's he was playing last night against Spain.

I think we all have our own individual biases on which player we prefer - e.g. you saying Messi has the superior skillset I'd disagree with even though I'd say Messi's better on the ball, but Ronaldo has better movement, finishing, and all round versatility as he showed yesterday when he playing as both the main goal scoring threat and creator for Portugal. But obviously some will disagree and that's fine, we all have our own opinions.

But saying he's a limited player imo is taking it too far. There's bias, and then there's just disingenuous.

Ronaldo is a good passer in the same way Marco van Basten was a good passer. Intelligent, reliable, technically strong and, due to the positions they occupied, quite dangerous. Certainly not something to criticise in general, but when being discussed alongside Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Platini etc. not even worth mentioning as something in their favour. Messi is clearly in the latter category.

 

[Irish Jet]

Well, that's interesting because I watched a programme on the History Channel a few weeks ago, in which Gary Lineker, Jermaine Jenas, Gianfranco Zola and Ryan Giggs debated Messi and Ronaldo, and not only did Messi come out on top, but all four of them agreed that Messi is a more complete and skilful player. Even Giggs, who was highly biased towards Ronaldo, had to concede this. So go and tell 'Giggsy' that he's had a shocker.

I mean, this is almost universally accepted by everyone who has working eyeballs. The only way you would possibly think that Ronaldo has a comparable skillset to Messi would be if you carried a white stick wherever you went. That's why Messi just topped the La Liga stats in every single category, most goals scored, most assists, most key passes, most completed dribbles, plus he also broke the La Liga free-kick record.

Where was Ronaldo? Nowhere. Because he's a limited player compared to Messi. No disgrace in that, everyone is.

It actually beggars belief that Messi could score more goals, score much more difficult goals, hammer Ronaldo as a free-kick taker, get more assists, more key passes, complete more dribbles, quite obviously be a much better team player than Ronaldo, quite obviously have a better skillset, as is widely acknowledged by ex-professionals, and yet you don't even have the maturity to accept that he's a superior footballer to Ronaldo.

And your best argument is making some statement about a future that hasn't even happened yet. Yes, hypothetically, based on something that we can't possibly know yet, and which certainly hasn't happened, you're right, Ronaldo is the better player! What a bulletproof argument! Let's just ignore the fact that Messi has consistently dominated Spanish football and been the player of the year nine times to one, it's obvious that things which have yet to happen are more important!

That's what I call having a shocker, young man.

You're pulling out the opinion of f*cking pundits? Jesus wept. Funny you bring that up as Evra a few hours ago just said Ronaldo was tougher to play against, exactly because he could do things Messi could not - He's actually had to defend against both too, unlike those you mentioned.

Although you're debating a point I never made because I am well aware Messi is better at things than Ronaldo. Just as Ronaldo is better at things as well. They're different stylistically and both are complete attacking threats. Are you trying to suggest prime Ronaldo wasn't a great dribbler? That he didn't score difficult goals? If it was as universally accepted as you suggest the rivalry wouldn't exist - Ronaldo wouldn't be winning the awards he is and you'd be talking to yourself right now. Ronaldo has a lot more free kick goals - Your statistic is skewed and you know exactly why - But don't let that affect your agenda. Let's just ignore than Messi has played in La Liga longer and assume Ronaldo done nothing prior to Madrid. Solid points mate.

Where was Ronaldo? Just breaking almost every CL record going, both team and individual. He's taken apart some of the best defences in the world over the last few years consistently and scored far more goals in the knockout stage than Messi has at a better ratio. I could add this to your stupid list but the entire point you're trying to make is ridiculous. They do some things better than the other and have done things more than other. Shocker.

Players declining with age is not a hypothetical ffs. Ronaldo has dropped off in areas but adapted superbly in others and managed to be as effective as ever. Messi will eventually drop off physically whether it's now or 2022. He will have to adapt as well and I wouldn't put it past him doing so as he is a phenomenon, like Ronaldo. I haven't even called Ronaldo a better player - You're literally making things up to sound incisive. You're making a fool of yourself. La Liga's POTY is the holy grail now? Not the actual World Player of the Year? Listen to yourself. Do you equate hat-tricks against Levante to hat-tricks at the Allianz too?

You're hatred of the man is unhealthy. Maybe take a walk.

 

[Ishdalar]

I did say it...

You were one of the people who ignored what he was doing for Portugal while constantly downplaying what he was doing for Real Madrid because of his teammates. Hence me saying he proved you wrong at the biggest stage in world football. I don't know how many times I argued here with people saying he'd look a lot worse without those great players behind him.



It's a football discussion, there's bickering but there's no hate and it's just some fun. I was honest in what I said.

About the rest, it's only natural that there's euphoria and exaggerations over a game like that one. Don't take the poll seriously.

Now, I want to be serious and respectful, we have almost all of his actions yesterday here.


What did he do yesterday so exceptional to his career standards? And I'm asking you because you've been watching him his whole career, World Cup and Euro games.

To me, he had a great first half (good movements, nice passing and association, but nothing out of the ordinary for what we should be expecting of a top 10 player). He scored a penalty from an action he milked (more Nacho mistake than anything, imo), and a long shot that should be easy to block by any decent goalkeeper. Then there's the second half, he was a passenger like everyone on his team, Ramos and Pique fixed something at halftime, he did nothing until Pique gifted him a foul that he masterfully executed.

But do you think beyond efficiency (3 goals in 4 shots and that includes a howler and a peno) this was a top-3 performance for him at major tournaments with Portugal?. I think he just collected some deserved good karma, 3 goals in his past 3 World Cups was an unfair balance to his career. He was Portugal's best and only hope yesterday, but what irks me is that somehow people are turning this game into one of his best performances because of raw output, I think 80% of his games from the past 3 WC's were better than this one, despite numbers saying he did as much in the last 90' than the previous 1k+.

 

[jojojo]

Let's just ignore the fact that Messi has consistently dominated Spanish football and been the player of the year nine times to one, it's obvious that things which have yet to happen are more important!

Does anyone actually doubt that Messi and Barca have been better than Ronaldo and Madrid in La Liga? Do you think that we should therefore ignore Ronaldo's performances in the PL and CL?

They've both played many disappointing games with their national teams, alongside some matchwinning ones, so I don't think there's much to see there. What's intriguing people is that (basically since Santos came in) Ronaldo has started to look more at ease and more effective for Portugal than ever before in his career. Ever since these two started to be seen as competitors for the same trophies, there's been a kind of arms race underway. People are waiting for the Messi (and Argentinian) response.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

are there really people who can't at least understand the other side of the argument on who is better?

 

[fishfingers15]

are there really people who can't at least understand the other side of the argument on who is better?

The reasonable ones in the thread are the ones who think 1) both are GOAT's 2) There is very little to choose between the two 3) Messi is a more skilled player but Ronaldo is the more effective player so the final choice is subjective.

The unreasonable ones are the ones who think 1) Messi doesn't play well under pressure 2) Ronaldo is a striker 3) Neymar and Salah are better players than Ronaldo etc.

 

[Peyroteo]

Now, I want to be serious and respectful, we have almost all of his actions yesterday here.


What did he do yesterday so exceptional to his career standards? And I'm asking you because you've been watching him his whole career, World Cup and Euro games.

To me, he had a great first half (good movements, nice passing and association, but nothing out of the ordinary for what we should be expecting of a top 10 player). He scored a penalty from an action he milked (more Nacho mistake than anything, imo), and a long shot that should be easy to block by any decent goalkeeper. Then there's the second half, he was a passenger like everyone on his team, Ramos and Pique fixed something at halftime, he did nothing until Pique gifted him a foul that he masterfully executed.

But do you think beyond efficiency (3 goals in 4 shots and that includes a howler and a peno) this was a top-3 performance for him at major tournaments with Portugal?. I think he just collected some deserved good karma, 3 goals in his past 3 World Cups was an unfair balance to his career. He was Portugal's best and only hope yesterday, but what irks me is that somehow people are turning this game into one of his best performances because of raw output, I think 80% of his games from the past 3 WC's were better than this one, despite numbers saying he did as much in the last 90' than the previous 1k+.

I don't feel the need to be respectful so I'll just say that's bonkers

First of all that video is not complete, he won a lot more duels than that. He was incredible with his back to goal (which he's massively improved at), was perfect in his decision making on the ball which isn't always the case, won fouls, was important in defensive set pieces, a threat on the counter and he scored 3 goals on top of it all. I mean... what more can you ask from a player? It was a perfect performance.

On top of that, the performance will be highlighted by the fact Portugal didn't even play well while Spain were geniunely fantastic. It was a very hard game for a player to look as good as he did and you always have to take into consideration the circumstances of the game. He was invisible for a long period of the second half but what was he supposed to do? Spain are better and noone can control the ball against them. Taking the importance of matches into account, Netherlands in 2012 and Sweden in 2013 are the only 2 performances for the national team that I'd easily put above this one but in both of those games it was a lot easier to look good. There are maybe a few others that should make the cut but 80% is ridiculous.

 

[FattyFooty]

Everyone is going about Messis peak.

I noticed hes peak was just around Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol prime aswell. Maybe it has something to do with that aswell?

 

[Amar__]

Are you saying that he had a good performance? If that's a good performance by his standars, then he is clearly inferior to Ronaldo. For a start, his movement isn't good at all.

I wanted Messi to have a great game today and wish him to have a great tournament. He was disappointing today though.

It's not good game by his standards, it's good game considering how shite his teammates were. It's nowhere near his best, but he was pretty much the only Argentina player playing and actually doing anything with the ball, so I have no idea how can you criticise him for anything else apart for the penalty(which deserves criticism), he is not a robot.

 

[Don Alfredo]

Is there anyone not putting ronaldo in their top 5 of all time anymore?

I don't think it is an outlandish claim in any way to have Di Stefano, Cruyff or Beckenbauer in there over Ronaldo or Messi. You can put them into the Top5, but is no certainty.

I just realised I post this in the thread where all the Ronaldo and Messi fanboys make emotional posts, feck

Edit: And I posted this with a biased user name as well, I'm fecked

 

[Peyroteo]

It's not good game by his standards, it's good game considering how shite his teammates were. It's nowhere near his best, but he was pretty much the only Argentina player playing and actually doing anything with the ball, so I have no idea how can you criticise him for anything else apart for the penalty(which deserves criticism), he is not a robot.

Why was Dybala on the bench? Why is he standing still when his teammates have the ball? Why are his teammates standing still when he has the ball?

There’s plenty to criticize about the way Argentina play football and Messi is a big part of that. Today’s match was nothing new and if they keep playing the same way it’s unlikely results will get much better.

 

[Zlaatan]

I did say it...

You were one of the people who ignored what he was doing for Portugal while constantly downplaying what he was doing for Real Madrid because of his teammates. Hence me saying he proved you wrong at the biggest stage in world football.

I talk about how people base their opinion on these players and you start going off on how Ronaldo proved me wrong by being great in one WC game?? Is this straw man week or are you just desperate to shout out that Ronaldo can also be great in the WC? This is like Mr.Vancouver all over again, "you said mean things about Ronaldo before and now it's payback time!!"

However, I've never ignored what he did for Portugal, or Real for that matter. At best I've ignored the final in the EC since he walked off injured before he got the chance to do anything. I also haven't "constantly downplayed what he was doing for Real Madrid", that's pure BS. Maybe I have downplayed the praise he's gotten for various things because I've always judged him and every other player on what they actually do, not what their team does, but as you seem to be viewing any and every semi-negative remark about Ronaldo as a declaration of war against yourself then perhaps it's not so strange that you say these things.

I don't know how many times I argued here with people saying he'd look a lot worse without those great players behind him.

That you have argued with other people has nothing to do with me. You and a few others in here fail to realise that not all people who think Messi is better agree with everyone else on everything they say in this thread. It seems to be painfully difficult to separate the individual from the group, not only when it comes to players but also posters apparently.

It's a football discussion, there's bickering but there's no hate and it's just some fun. I was honest in what I said.

About the rest, it's only natural that there's euphoria and exaggerations over a game like that one. Don't take the poll seriously.

If you honestly think that me saying things like "he was by far the best player on the pitch" could be described as "downplaying everything he did" then I don't know what to say.. the word delusional comes to mind.

 

[Renegade]

I’m still in the Messi being better camp, but I can’t deny Ronaldo has the superior mentality. Both incredible players that we all take for granted. Sad day when they both hang up the boots and we look back at their contributions.

 

[prath92]

It's not good game by his standards, it's good game considering how shite his teammates were. It's nowhere near his best, but he was pretty much the only Argentina player playing and actually doing anything with the ball, so I have no idea how can you criticise him for anything else apart for the penalty(which deserves criticism), he is not a robot.

nah he did pretty much nothing all game. towards the end he even got a lot of space to run into but was pondering over the ball a lot. cant agree he played well at all.

 

[Cal?]

Messi is definitely very poor on penalties btw, should be Aguero taking it for Argentina.

I’d suggest Dybala

 

[Cal?]

So Ronaldo scores a couple of goals and suddenly he is better than Messi even though "everyone knows that Messi is a better passer, dribbler, and free-kick taker than Ronaldo, has better control, creates more chances, gets more assists, contributes far more to the game, and scores more difficult goals, far more regularly"

Why should Ronaldo be considered better than Messi?

Goals and CL

 

[Peyroteo]

I talk about how people base their opinion on these players and you start going off on how Ronaldo proved me wrong by being great in one WC game?? Is this straw man week or are you just desperate to shout out that Ronaldo can also be great in the WC? This is like Mr.Vancouver all over again, "you said mean things about Ronaldo before and now it's payback time!!"

However, I've never ignored what he did for Portugal, or Real for that matter. At best I've ignored the final in the EC since he walked off injured before he got the chance to do anything. I also haven't "constantly downplayed what he was doing for Real Madrid", that's pure BS. Maybe I have downplayed the praise he's gotten for various things because I've always judged him and every other player on what they actually do, not what their team does, but as you seem to be viewing any and every semi-negative remark about Ronaldo as a declaration of war against yourself then perhaps it's not so strange that you say these things.

No, you just apparently need to read the conversation again... you were the one that replied to me on that.

Semi-negative remark you can pretend to be fair however you like but the bitterness and anger is beyond obvious which is why I think it's funny and replied to you in the first place. You can't give him praise for a great performance without downplaying what he's done a few times, it's incredible.

Plenty of negative comments about Ronaldo I agree with. When I disagree I reply, the only one here declaring war is yourself which is understandable.

That you have argued with other people has nothing to do with me. You and a few others in here fail to realise that not all people who think Messi is better agree with everyone else on everything they say in this thread. It seems to be painfully difficult to separate the individual from the group, not only when it comes to players but also posters apparently.

You literally said those things though... it's just that a bunch of other people did too.

 

[prath92]

I’d suggest Dybala

substitutes cant take pens mate

 

[MrMarcello]

The reasonable ones in the thread are the ones who think 1) both are GOAT's 2) There is very little to choose between the two 3) Messi is a more skilled player but Ronaldo is the more effective player so the final choice is subjective.

The unreasonable ones are the ones who think 1) Messi doesn't play well under pressure 2) Ronaldo is a striker 3) Neymar and Salah are better players than Ronaldo etc.

Personally think the mods should close this abomination of a thread. Fanatics and fanbois ruin just about anything worthwhile.

 

[prath92]

Personally think the mods should close this abomination of a thread. Fanatics and fanbois ruin just about anything worthwhile.

you can choose to not open the thread though

 

[MrMarcello]

you can choose to not open the thread though

This is true, and I seldom post in this thread rife with nonsense. My comment still holds true.

 

[Giggs86]

Yeah class, lets definite their careers in a 24 hour period. Great arguement.

"Owned Spain". They drew. Calm the feck down. It was a phenomenal performance by Ronaldo, one that'll go down as one of the greatest individual performances in World Cup history. But seriously, he didn't guide Portugal to victory.

Perspective. He wasn’t playing Iceland with Aguero and Di Maria on his side. He was playing against the mighty Spain with bunch of nobodies next to him, no offense.

 

[Son Of Sam]

Yeah class, lets definite their careers in a 24 hour period. Great arguement.

"Owned Spain". They drew. Calm the feck down. It was a phenomenal performance by Ronaldo, one that'll go down as one of the greatest individual performances in World Cup history. But seriously, he didn't guide Portugal to victory.

No shit, Sherlock!

Ronaldo put 3 goals past arguably the best goalkeeper in the world while Messi couldn’t score against a goalkeeper who is a photographer in Iceland.

If the roles were reversed, you wouldn’t be giving excuses for Ronaldo. Look at the players around Messi....

Higuain - Juventus
Dybala - Juventus
Rojo - Man Utd
Otamendi - Man City
Caballero - Chelsea
Aguero - Man City
Di Maria - PSG.

Look at the players around Ronaldo. None of them plays in a top team in Europe and yet Ronaldo’s outstanding mentality shone through even when facing a more difficult opponent(Spain).

Ronaldo is clearly the better player....no debating!

 

[Cal?]

substitutes cant take pens mate

They should have started with Dybala

 

[CA_vampire]

At the end, Ronaldo won the debate.

 

[Cal?]

Personally think the mods should close this abomination of a thread. Fanatics and fanbois ruin just about anything worthwhile.

best place to see the Messi brigade cry.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

best place to see the Messi brigade cry.

Stop it with stuff like this.

Objectively, have you noticed the upturn in ronaldo fans starting to state their opinion as fact?

 

[Renegade]

Has anyone’s opinion changed on the two over the last 24hours?

 

[Aidan Azar]

No shit, Sherlock!

Ronaldo put 3 goals past arguably the best goalkeeper in the world while Messi couldn’t score against a goalkeeper who is a photographer in Iceland.

Google Iceland vs Portugal Euro 2016.

 

[Kazi]

At the end, Ronaldo won the debate.

We’re 1 game into the WC lol

 

[Ishdalar]

I don't feel the need to be respectful so I'll just say that's bonkers

First of all that video is not complete, he won a lot more duels than that. He was incredible with his back to goal (which he's massively improved at), was perfect in his decision making on the ball which isn't always the case, won fouls, was important in defensive set pieces, a threat on the counter and he scored 3 goals on top of it all. I mean... what more can you ask from a player? It was a perfect performance.

On top of that, the performance will be highlighted by the fact Portugal didn't even play well while Spain were geniunely fantastic. It was a very hard game for a player to look as good as he did and you always have to take into consideration the circumstances of the game. He was invisible for a long period of the second half but what was he supposed to do? Spain are better and noone can control the ball against them. Taking the importance of matches into account, Netherlands in 2012 and Sweden in 2013 are the only 2 performances for the national team that I'd easily put above this one but in both of those games it was a lot easier to look good. There are maybe a few others that should make the cut but 80% is ridiculous.

He won 5 duels out of 8, 2 of them were in the video the other 3 were irrelevant to the game, highlight videos won't show that, so I bothered making you happy


Here you have, his 5 won duels

His "incredible back to goal" came 30 meters away from the goal, heatmap + passes, he got 1 key pass but I think it was that pass to Guedes on a counter.

"Got fouled" 4 times, same as Messi today, no one will praise him for that.

"Important in defensive set pieces" had a defensive aerial duel, lost it, Spain had 5 corners, but only 3 aerial duels happened in Portugal's area.


Ronaldo, a passenger in the 3 aerial duels from set pieces that took part on Portugal's area. Surely a key man.

I get you might want to romantice a game where a player scored 3 goals against a favourite in the tournament, but as I said, beyond those 3 individual moments (enough to have a great game) and good link up moments in the first half, it itches me that people have to invent his contributions in other areas.

 

[lsd]

Can't believe this thread has been so busy past two days with the season over too

 

[Son Of Sam]

Google Iceland vs Portugal Euro 2016.

That does not negate my point. If Ronaldo was born in Argentina, he would have won 5 Copa & 2 world cups by now.

Messi with the luxury of playing with some of the finest football players in Argentina can’t win f@ck all.

 

[Peyroteo]

He won 5 duels out of 8, 2 of them were in the video the other 3 were irrelevant to the game, highlight videos won't show that, so I bothered making you happy


Here you have, his 5 won duels

His "incredible back to goal" came 30 meters away from the goal, heatmap + passes, he got 1 key pass but I think it was that pass to Guedes on a counter.

"Got fouled" 4 times, same as Messi today, no one will praise him for that.

"Important in defensive set pieces" had a defensive aerial duel, lost it, Spain had 5 corners, but only 3 aerial duels happened in Portugal's area.


Ronaldo, a passenger in the 3 aerial duels from set pieces that took part on Portugal's area. Surely a key man.

I get you might want to romantice a game where a player scored 3 goals against a favourite in the tournament, but as I said, beyond those 3 individual moments (enough to have a great game) and good link up moments in the first half, it itches me that people have to invent his contributions in other areas.

By the stats he had 15 duels, won 9. He cleared the ball twice defensively on two set pieces, did you watch the game? If you're just following some stat website then they got that wrong. I'd love to know which aerial duel he lost while defending a set piece... his incredible back to goal work didn't come 30 meters away from goal only, he won a free kick which he scored for example. Also not sure why it would matter how far it is. Winning 4 fouls against Spain vs winning 4 fouls vs Iceland... come on.

This is if you rate performances by those nonsensical stats you use, which I don't because it's stupid. He was incredible, you're the only person on Earth who believes he was better than this in 80% of the matches he played in big international tournaments. That's a completely ridiculous statement and at this point I'm not sure I've ever been disagreed so much with someone on the way they judge players on a football pitch so I don't really see the point in us discussing football.

 

[Daysleeper]

At the end, Ronaldo won the debate.

No, he didn't, Messi was dominating this poll until the mods started screwing with it out of pettiness.

 

[Daysleeper]

Perspective. He wasn’t playing Iceland with Aguero and Di Maria on his side. He was playing against the mighty Spain with bunch of nobodies next to him, no offense.

And against Iceland, Ronaldo couldn't score either and Portugal drew 1-1.

Spain was a much more open game, Di Maria has been woeful, Aguero had a nice goal.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

No shit, Sherlock!

Ronaldo put 3 goals past arguably the best goalkeeper in the world while Messi couldn’t score against a goalkeeper who is a photographer in Iceland.

If the roles were reversed, you wouldn’t be giving excuses for Ronaldo. Look at the players around Messi....

Higuain - Juventus
Dybala - Juventus
Rojo - Man Utd
Otamendi - Man City
Caballero - Chelsea
Aguero - Man City
Di Maria - PSG.

Look at the players around Ronaldo. None of them plays in a top team in Europe and yet Ronaldo’s outstanding mentality shone through even when facing a more difficult opponent(Spain).

Ronaldo is clearly the better player....no debating!

The best goalkeeper who happened to slip a straight forward save into the net. Yep. Definitely at his best day. Silly arguement to bring in.

Re. me not using the same excuses if roles were reversed - no I wouldn't, because unlike you (by your comments) I'm perfectly happy to accept Ronaldo as the GOAT if he deserves it. I've been praising Ronaldo for an iconic performance on this and in real life after last night.

No debating? Stop being such a child. It's your opinion which I'm happy to accept. To say that there is no debate is just a silly approach. You can be a Ronaldo fan, but you don't need to shit on Messi in the same instance. There is clearly a debate in there otherwise the world wouldn't be constantly debating who's best.

We'll know who the GOAT is when both have retired. Messi has two extra years on Ronaldo, and Ronaldo could go on until he's 40.

Let's wait and see and continue to debate until then. "No debate" - Jesus Christ.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

That does not negate my point. If Ronaldo was born in Argentina, he would have won 5 Copa & 2 world cups by now.

Messi with the luxury of playing with some of the finest football players in Argentina can’t win f@ck all.

Bore off with statements like that. That’s not how extrapolation works.

 

[prath92]

Then there's the second half, he was a passenger like everyone on his team, Ramos and Pique fixed something at halftime, he did nothing until Pique gifted him a foul that he masterfully executed.

because they were up against a team thats at least 3 or 4 levels above in terms of possesion. anyone who watched the game yesterday would say ronaldo was probably the best player on the pitch for both teams. if that is less than 80% of his other games then other games have to be pele 1970 levels