Sure, but thats exactly what I am trying to say in my original thread, isn't it? All along I am only referring to what it may means for our grandchildren in future, not for you and me.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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Do explain why Messi won in 2010? Inter won the Treble and Spain the WC?
How about 2012 when he won sod all? Something to do with the 70+ goals in the 11/12 season (91 in 2012)? So it is about being the best player?
or 2019? A capitulation in the CL SF of historic proportions?
I think to be fair back then people were shorter than they are now. I'm the same height as Pelé, but I think back in his generation people in general aren't as freakisly tall as they are here in Scandinavia today, so I doubt Pelé was very much shorter than other Brazilians. The average height of men of my generation(born 1987) here in Denmark is around 1.80 m.
Personally I don't think it matters what grandchildren think. I don't think it's a great measure to go by. This is not to downplay any achievements by Ronaldo, I think it's fair game if people want to rank him as the greatest or one of the greatest of all time.
Ronaldo´s fans are pletoric that some people believe that there is a possible debate, there is not, Ronaldo is very good, Messi is simply the best.
something Messi hasn’t had with Argentina since 2014. You see what happens to Ronaldo with bad coaching right now, Portugal have been far more balanced than Argentina this past decade
Messi fans have such a narrow view of the world that they can't see the debate. Even if this rigged poll is to be believed, 39% makes it very debatable.
The 2 of them are the best ever, Ronaldo just edges it slightly.
That would include Sampaoli to managed Chile to beat Argentina to the Copa?
64% v 36% to Messi on MessivRonaldo.net with over 1m votes.
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yup, he did an AWFUL job with Argentina.
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It's Messi for stuff like this. But incredible athleticism of Ronaldo cannot be discounted either of course but this is just pure magic.
I don't pretend to follow Argentina closely, but not like Portugal have had big name managers recently, Bento & Santos had both been bouncing around everywhere before taking over Portugal; Scolari was the only big name who managed them during Ronaldo's career.
oh For sure, I just think Portugal have been run much much better than the AFA. Ronaldo but must looking around at Juventus all WTF because of how poorly they’ve done building around him.
Rigged too
Almost Trump like in rigged numbers/elections.Rigged too
Anyway no way am I getting sucked into an argument on this thread as no one is ever going to change their mind
You are right, but it 's a funny loop thoughAlmost Trump like in rigged numbers/elections.
Anyway no way am I getting sucked into an argument on this thread as no one is ever going to change their mind
No, that's just not true.
Portugal have never had a better overall squad than Argentina. I think maybe for Euro 2021 might be the only time you can safely say the Portuguese squad is better overall. Messi has always had better players around him when representing the National Team.
This is true. Pele was tremendously quick, naturally strong and very two footed. He was a great dribbler, a great passer/playmaker and a wonderful improviser, due to his very high football IQ. He was only 5’8 but was brilliant in the air as well. And on top of that, he scored nearly 1300 goals in his career. There’s never been a more complete attacking player in football history, with the possible exception of Alfredo DiStefano.
Ronaldo isn't on Messis level. Messi is just a level above him but that does not make Ronaldo ordinary, he is also an own category
Messi is just #1, Ronaldo is #2 and the rest of good players is #3
They are both so good, they own place 1 and 2. M
It just happens that Messi is better than Ronaldo and Ronaldo is also better than all the others.
You can't put Messi and Ronaldo on the same place but you can't put Ronaldo on the same place like other players either
Messi is just #1, Ronaldo is #2 and the rest of good players is #3
They are both so good, they own place 1 and 2. M
It just happens that Messi is better than Ronaldo and Ronaldo is also better than all the others.
You can't put Messi and Ronaldo on the same place but you can't put Ronaldo on the same place like other players either
They managed to beat France in a final, so no. Argentina wasn't better than Portugal.
They fluked it just like they fluked their way to the final. Zero wins in group stages are you having a laugh UEFA?
Yes, in a one off cup game in the Euros they won. I really doubt Argentina could find a way to play in Euro 2016.
But this doesn't address the fact that Messi has had better quality of teammates when representing the national team.
I'm not even a Ronaldo fan, and I couldn't give a shit who people on this board think is better.* The fact is the Portugal national team hasn't been the same quality (in terms of individuals) when compared to Argentina.
*Fully aware that I'm posting on a thread about Messi v Ronaldo.
So? Poor teams beat good teams all the time. How does Portugal flukily winning that game against France mean they’re better than Argentina?
So Cristiano flukely won that Euro? I'll take that
Erm..ok. I don’t think anyone believes Portugal were better than France that game although they were mostly rock solid at the back thanks to Pepe.
Seedrof was overrated.
you misunderstand. Argentina may have had more talent but Portugal were more balanced, hence why could even best France in a euro final. Argentina had no chemistry up front and Messi constantly had to drop deeper than ever in midfield just to get the ball up the pitch. 2016 Portugal onward was a better team, period. Argentina’s defense fell off a cliff while Portugal’s was always amazing. They also had a much harder working midfield. Argentina was always a dysfunctional team after 2015. Portugal had better managers after 2014 and a much better worker rate
portugal without Ronaldo would beat Argentina without Messi no question. Without Messi Argentina couldn’t even qualify for the WC while have had a very good record without Ronaldo in recent years
Well it’s just a childhood thing, throughout my childhood everyone told me Pele was the GOAT. Sure once we are grown up we will started to form different opinions. When I first started watching football I tend to think Maradona was the GOAT. And then in the past decade or so both Messi and Ronaldo has a strong case for the claim too, for different reasons.
Maybe current Portugal.
But there’s no way Portugal of 2009-2016 without Ronaldo could beat Argentina of the same period without Messi. That’s simply false.
And you’re forgetting Portugal qualified for the 2014 WC through the skin of their teeth too (thanks to Ronaldo’s heroics against Sweden).
Sorry, but this is just revisionist. I said above that the only squad you could make a case for Portugal being stronger than Argentina is for Euro 2021.
Every other squad, you would obviously always take Argentina. It's not even close.
I don't get this obsession with Messi fanbois to make it seem like Messi always had it tougher for the National Team. It's just not true.
argentina squad was always dysfunctional, Portugal was inarguably a more balanced team period. No way Argentina wins a final without Messi because they had such a lacklustre attack on the pitch. Despite the talent the players did not fit well together more so in midfield and attack. The defense for Argentina in 2014 and 2015 was stellar. The midfield was really bad hence why Messi has to drop deep. Just because there were big names on the team doesn’t mean they were more balanced. There’s a difference between being balanced and being talented on paper. Portugal from 2016 to present were more balanced, period. No revisionism, it is what it is.
I said 2016- present. Argentina was very good 2014 and 2015. Portugal has been far more balanced since then. 2016 Portugal would beat Argentina
That includes lots of dubious friendlies, in official matches Ronaldo has already surpassed him, Pele himself acknowledged on Twitter.
No way Argentina wins a final with or without Messi so far in his career.
hahaha fair play Cal, that had me laughing not gonna lieNo way Argentina wins a final with or without Messi so far in his career.
He won the Olympic games, the only trophee Argentina didn´t have.
You're confusing two arguments here.
The Argentina squad has been better quality wise than Portugal. That's my argument. Maybe Euro 2021 will be the first time where I'd say, individually, the Portugal squad is better than Argentina's.
The fact that Argentina have underperformed, although they've had class individuals is a separate argument. That comes down to luck, coaching, form etc.
So, for me, any Messi fans or otherwise who think that Portugal has had better squads (not counting Euro 2021) is wide of the mark.
then we are in agreement not sure why we are going back and forth. I always said Argentina had more talent on paper but Portugal have been better balanced
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