The most talented people I've seen in sport are Messi, Federer and Ronnie O' Sullivan. Maybe other people would put Tiger Woods up there, I don't really like golf, though.
Well put. Agree with pretty much every word. The mental gymnastics by Ronaldo fans claiming he is the better player is nothing short of incredible. Typically they can be put in one of three categories: Portuguese people, Real Madrid fans or Manchester United fans (who for some reason still adore him).
Not sure if you are serious. Federer is doing unimaginable things at the age of 37-38 in an individual sport where you can't hide behind your team mates from time to time or have an off day like playing in the league or having a second tie. Tennis and football are very different sports and whilst football is a lot more popular, Federer has enormous fanbase and much more marketable than Messi(in regards to the emotion point).
Messi's CL perfomances this season so far have been better than Ronaldo's performances in the last 3 CL campaigns. Ronaldo is amazing at scoring headers, tap-ins and penalties but he can't do what Messi can do all over the pitch throughout the game. That's the difference.
Disagree. Ronaldo hasn't had a game as good as this one for the last 6-7 years across all competitions, let alone in the KO stages. Putting a couple in the back of the net isn't the same as regularly taking the whole defense of a top side on alone, setting up 3-4 chances with great passing and scoring a free kick like this.
It really doesn't.
The Balon d'Or count probably indicates that it does.
Just like Keegan is good as Ronaldo then.
I think his abilities have been matched by past players but to combine them all is incredible. What does set him aside is how consistent he has been over so many seasons. Maybe Pele is the only one comparable. The only blot in his career and what will hold him back in the no. 1 GOAT discussions is his lack of international trophies. Although he has time to rectify this.It's quite absurd isn't it, his extraterrestrial preeminence in so many aspects of attacking? Over the course of his career he has been a dribbler that's reckoned in the company of Maradona and Best...nonchalantly dissecting defensive organisations like a hot knife through butter, a final third passer that's every bit as good as Cruyff and Laudrup with 250+ assists in terms of pure numbers, a scorer of the caliber of Romário and Puskás, a free kick taker who's up there with Beckham and Zico, really. We've gotten to a point where things that are career highlights for certain players are but a mundane monthly feature for Messi. Won't delve into the whole vs. Ronaldo debate because the the latter has his own set of qualities and seems to possess the Brady/Jordan gene of absolute determination when the spotlight's shining on him, but in terms of pure and comprehensive attacking/playmaking majesty, there won't ever be someone as complete as the the little wizard — like, even when Messi's legs are completely gone, he'll just hang back as an old-school #10 and dictate the game with his golden touch and incisive passing range.
Another couple of seasons like this one and he'll be within striking distance of the All-Time League scoring records, too (currently on 417 La Liga goals)...
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but of course you are wrong here.
Not a good argument.
it's incredible that some people still don't get this. whoever think Messi is simply a better player, doesn't think that way because Barca are on course to win another CL. trophies are bonus for Messi, but they're everything for Ronaldo because he's just inferior player to begin with and there's no shame in that. that's why this thread is devoid of any discussion about their individual qualities and it's mostly centered on their club/NT trophies - because there is almost nothing left to discuss when it comes to their individual ability. there's even less to discuss when Ronaldo's team don't win everything because that's his only argument in this debate, even on United forum. if Barca were to win treble this year and repeat it next year, it still wouldn't matter that much in this debate because it's not something that majority of "Messi brigade" base their opinion on.
I think this debate mostly centers on the difference in definition of what "best" means. I think it's a fair point of view to use the awards you win as the metric for this. I personally don't, since there are too many factors that decide football matches to really attribute a victory to the contribution of a single player. But still, saying Ronaldo was a better player than Messi for the last couple of seasons is by no means a laughable suggestion. It's not something I necessarily agree with, but I can see the point.
Agree. Messi this year CL performance rating is 8.94 in whoscored~
I played tennis at national level with professional tennis players, and I hugely admire Federer. He is the most talented tennis player that I have ever seen. However, he may not be the best tennis player that I've ever seen. He has a losing record against Nadal, and a losing record against Djokovic, and they both have a chance to go past his records. Undoubtedly, what he is doing at his age is unprecedented, but ultimately if he retires with 20GS and Djokovic or Nadal get to 21 then it will be hard for him to legitimately claim to be the greatest player. Certainly, regardless of this, Nadal and Djokovic are in the same ballpark as Federer in terms of level of performance, and Nadal is clearly better on clay, while Djokovic is better on slow hard courts. If you put them on a fast court then Federer is the best ever, but even then he's lost twice to Djokovic at Wimbledon in recent years.
seriously?That’s plainly false, a Messi without goals isn’t 1/10 of the player he is.
The objective and informed have voted Ronaldo the better player in 10 of the last 15 years.
I actually wonder about them...what do they do when commentators, pundits, journalists, players, ex-players, TV, newspapers, magazines, radio, Internet sites, social media, the general public - ie. everyone other than a few obsessed Ronaldo fans, who can't face reality - proclaim Messi to be, at worst, the best player in the world, and one of the three best ever. Do they put their fingers in their ears, and go "la, la, la, I can't hear this"? Do they avoid all football coverage? Does it eat away at them inside every time yet another person professionally employed to talk about football proclaims Messi to be the best? Do they ever feel ridiculous for having such a poorly-founded, almost heretic perspective and opinion?
Apart from the incredible passing and assists you mean?
Source on this? Also, seems like a weird time frame to choose for this argument given that Messi was sixteen 15 years ago.
Ozil used to get loads of assists in La Liga
I've played both football and tennis. Tennis is definitely the more requiring sport on individual level, especially back to back grueling matches, let alone 90-100 matches these guys play every season.
Thats great, not sure what that has got to do with Messi though.
Only goals matter. That's why Ronaldinho, Zidane, Kaka, Figo, etc.... all lost the Balon D'or to players with more goals than them. When they won it they had the most goals scored.
Ronaldo received more votes in Ballon D'or voting in 10 out of the last 15 years. 2005 was the first year either of them got any votes.
That playing in such an advanced role without scoring makes for a pretty poor player.
Messi fans being deliberately obtuse as usual.
I agree with you about the demands of tennis, however I don't think we can say that tennis is harder, therefore someone who plays tennis is automatically better.
Messi is better mate, but surely I wouldn't call him head and shoulders ahead of Cristiano for example.
Finally you grasp the difference between opinions and fact. Perhaps you'd like to explain to your fellow brigade members.
I'm going for each CL campaign as a whole. Messi wasn't great at OT or Lyon but every other game he has been comfortably the best player on the pitch and games like last night and Lyon at the Nou Camp he played better than Ronaldo has shown in the last few years.
The thing about the Messi brigade I can’t comprehend is the overrating of every Messi performance regardless of what he did.
Are you seriously saying he was good at OT, or even special at all against United at Camp Nou?
What a strange post. When did Zizou ever score the most goals? When did Kaka ever score the most?
Think you're missing out on the irony buddy
The fact that you repeat such a desperate and obviously dumb argument again and again is actual proof that the Argentinian is the better player.
This is utterly mindblowing
