I for one am amazed at a Barcelona fan going all out on this viewpoint.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
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I never really understood that. I have nothing against Ronaldo, I loved him when he was here and am happy that he became one of the best. But he pissed off as soon as he could and never looked back. So why should we have special sentiments for the time after...
Even as an United supporter I’d say that’s an accurate assessment, especially outside Real, Barca or United fans. With regards to Barca fans, it’s probably 10-0. If you would talk to random football interested people on the continent, I’d expect 9/10 to back Messi as GOAT over Ronaldo. Maybe it’s different in the UK and obviously Portugal...
Eh? Most polls have Messi at 65% absolute tops but you feel confident that 90% of random people would go with Messi? Doesn't really compute...
Probably because he's the best United player from most of our lifetimes?
it’s true, look it up
This debate is odd and extremely biased from both camps.
There's no problem saying that Messi is better than Ronaldo, the same way there's no problem saying that Ronaldo is better than Messi.
There's really no way of actually proving neither of those statements so anything people say can be refuted by biased statements like "Ronaldo won the Euro and Messi didn't win anything". That's not how it works mate, you are not the best player just because you won something that the other side didn't since it kinda is a team game. And you have my favourite "Messi can dribble past 3 players on a consistent basis while Ronaldo cant". That's great and enjoyable to watch but in the overall picture that doesn't prove anything either. Pretty sure that there are many players that won the Euro that no one rates that highly the same way that are players that probably can dribble 3 players and nobody cares that much about them either (got Quaresma flashbacks when I wrote this).
Even talent is subjective and can't be quantified therefore it can't accurately be compared. Sure, when the gap between players is big, you can tell who is the better player overall but when you have two players that are elite in what they do and they excel in different parts of the game, how can you compare that?
Based on the polls I saw, I would say that 6-7 people out of 10 would rate Messi higher and that seems fair to me although I rate Ronaldo higher.
Some rate higher what Messi brings to the table and find more enjoyable the way he plays, other people enjoy more Ronaldo's playstyle and what he brings to the table.
At the end of the day, their output is similar enough that you end up choosing who you think is the best player based on your own taste and/or biased thinking than actual talent overall.
There's no problem saying that Messi is better than Ronaldo, the same way there's no problem saying that Ronaldo is better than Messi.
There's really no way of actually proving neither of those statements so anything people say can be refuted by biased statements like "Ronaldo won the Euro and Messi didn't win anything". That's not how it works mate, you are not the best player just because you won something that the other side didn't since it kinda is a team game. And you have my favourite "Messi can dribble past 3 players on a consistent basis while Ronaldo cant". That's great and enjoyable to watch but in the overall picture that doesn't prove anything either. Pretty sure that there are many players that won the Euro that no one rates that highly the same way that are players that probably can dribble 3 players and nobody cares that much about them either (got Quaresma flashbacks when I wrote this).
Even talent is subjective and can't be quantified therefore it can't accurately be compared. Sure, when the gap between players is big, you can tell who is the better player overall but when you have two players that are elite in what they do and they excel in different parts of the game, how can you compare that?
Based on the polls I saw, I would say that 6-7 people out of 10 would rate Messi higher and that seems fair to me although I rate Ronaldo higher.
Some rate higher what Messi brings to the table and find more enjoyable the way he plays, other people enjoy more Ronaldo's playstyle and what he brings to the table.
At the end of the day, their output is similar enough that you end up choosing who you think is the best player based on your own taste and/or biased thinking than actual talent overall.
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Wasn't this from when Messi won his 6th Ballon D'or? I remember the quote, but can't find the source.
wait Ferguson actually said this? I’d be stunned
But for us, he was that 1 or 2 seasons... The rest all for Madrid
He allegedly said it when Barcelona knocked out Ole's Man Utd in 2019 but the quote mainly seems to feature on fringe websites, so I wouldn't consider it super reliable.
That's irrelevant to the point though. Was Ronaldo the best player of most United supporters' lives? Definitely.
That he went on to mad levels of greatness afterwards doesn't change it.
Is this even a debate anymore?
Ronaldo out.
No penalties for him vs Belgium. No Eder to save him either.
Let’s see if Messi, who has choked on more than one occasion for Argentina, can do better. At least there is no Higuain and Palacio.
No penalties for him vs Belgium. No Eder to save him either.
Let’s see if Messi, who has choked on more than one occasion for Argentina, can do better. At least there is no Higuain and Palacio.
No penalty, No Penaldo.
We can keep the thread locked for now
6-5 it stays
6-5 it stays
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They are the two most overrated players of all time.p
They are the two most overrated players of all time.p
Such a joyless thread, 2 of the best ever, however you fall, and so many expend so much energy downplaying one to advance the other in an imaginary all time list.
Enjoy them both you bores.
Enjoy them both you bores.
The one who played/plays for a team I like/don't like is better than the other one.
In the last few days I've seen people come into the Ronaldo thread to give him shit for supposedly only scoring when his team were already ahead and only scoring against bad teams. Messi did both those things today after a couple of goalless games, so in the name of keeping things fair I'm going to point that out, pretend that I'm using it as a stick to beat him with instead of appreciating his ability as a footballer and hopefully those posters will realize how absolutely ridiculous their argument is now that it's being used against their guy.
Also, I'm posting it in this thread and not one of the designated player threads because that's what good people do.
Also, I'm posting it in this thread and not one of the designated player threads because that's what good people do.
There's a HUGE difference in terms of gameplay when one player scores and the other don't. But, you need to see that match. Not only see that stats.
Although there are some stats like 'key passes' and 'chances created' that might help.
Although there are some stats like 'key passes' and 'chances created' that might help.
It might not be so impressive to score against Bolivia in a cup that has been losing its appeal but I think it's a good thing for Argentina that Messi is in the score sheet and gains some momentum and confidence towards the latter stages of Copa America.
Popped up on the Youtube home page
Destroys Cole at 0:20
Destroys Cole at 0:20
Indeed, when CR7 fans talk, they mostly talk about goals. When Messi fans talk, goals is just 1 of the many factors they talk about.
Says all about them
Last I remembered that more number of goals helped teams in winning and others were just artifcats of a game and something that don't end up getting counted while determining the final result. Maybe the rules have changed and I might have to look it up.
Doesn’t change what I said. Well too bad for you CR7 fans that he is only comparable to Messi on goals but is inferior in other aspects, so you only value that 1 thing that is comparable
The massive irony is that when Ronaldo doesn't score, but plays very well otherwise, those same people that usually say "Ronaldo only scores goals" come out and say "Oh my god, what a loser. Didn't even score!"
That’s not entirely true though. For example in this Euro, people have been talking about his 80m run during counter attack move which of course end up as goal. There also talk about the nice trick he did against Germany, the nice one two combination where he then dribble past keeper and scored against Hungary, and his overall stats and contribution (dribble, key pass etc) against Belgium too. Just that goals has been main part of his game, which often happens to be match winning decider, and the fact that he keep breaking those all time records, people naturally tend to talk about those more.
Same applies to Messi actually, although there is also talk about his pass/assist and dribbling, but mostly is about the goals he scored or setup too (freekicks, dribble move which end up as goals, one two move which end up as goal etc). I mean, as forward it does apply to everyone.
Maybe we value that actually counts?
And its not like he is totally shit while comparing the other made up criteria for judgment you use but don't let that stop you from believing that whatever you think is a fact.
I am really surprised by how quick these people are to downplay goal scoring. They will bring every other useless criteria to make Messi look good but when it comes to talking about something that actually helps deciding games, they downplay it.
As a United supporter, we have had plenty of chance creators since RvP left but we were never able to replace his goals. Atleast I acknowledge what a lethal goalscorer brings to the team and I am not stupid enough to undermine the most important trait in a forward that is required to win a game of football.
Henry in roids = Messi, RVN in roids = CR7
1) So RVN is as good as Henry to you because they are goal scorers of equal level, despite Henry being better in all round play. Ok
2) RVN is not totally shit in other aspects, he was just not as good as Henry in those other key criteria. Or was my fact that Henry is better than RVN in passing or dribbling not a fact now?
Ok, noted. To you RVN is as good as Henry, since goals is the only factor for you.
Ronaldo age 36, Messi age 34. Really sad.
Messi for me is one of the GOATs if not the GOAT, Ronaldo deserves to be in a similar tier looking at it now.
Messi in his prime was above and beyond Ronaldo, but their accomplishments on a team level are just frightening.
Probably going to be a Maradona vs Pele argument for the rest of time, Messi on an individual level is better for me though.
Messi for me is one of the GOATs if not the GOAT, Ronaldo deserves to be in a similar tier looking at it now.
Messi in his prime was above and beyond Ronaldo, but their accomplishments on a team level are just frightening.
Probably going to be a Maradona vs Pele argument for the rest of time, Messi on an individual level is better for me though.
I am not the one claiming that CR7 isn't comparable to Messi at all if you take away goal scoring. You are. Which I totally disagree with.
There's a reason why CR7 has won balon d ors and given how you rubbish his skillset that doesn't involve goal scoring, I don't think there's room to have a discussion because you state your opinion as facts.
Messi is destroying his own club. Ronaldo is destroying Coca Cola.
Choose one. I know I'd prefer the nice lad Daniel James, he destroys nobody.
Choose one. I know I'd prefer the nice lad Daniel James, he destroys nobody.
Why you bring Daniel James into this car crash of a thread! Leave the kid alone!
Agreed with the destruction thing though.
So you think CR7 is comparable to Messi if we remove the goal scoring?
I also did not rubbished his other skillsets, they are merely not as good as Messi. Yet you also think that just because he won his ballon dors, his other skillsets must be as good as messi.
If the above is true, then there is nothing else to discuss here
Ronaldo destroyed Juventus
His other skill set is clearly not as good as Messi now or in recent years. But I would say from around 06 to 14, they are indeed very close in every sense. Ronaldo used to be one of the best dribbler, best tricks and best runner with best long shot back in his days, remember. Maybe Messi was better in dribbling and ball control while Ronaldo was better in doing tricks and long shots etc. I’d even argue Ronaldo was more all rounded back in his days with more weapons in his pockets than anyone. Messi just being exceptional good in dribbling and playmaking.
I mean, it’s funny people tend to remember the past greats in their peak form which only last for around 2-5 years, wheteas for Ronaldo, people tend to just remember the older, poacher version of him more in recent years during his 30s, but not during his physical peak which last for 8+ years back in his 20s.
If we compare both players in their peak (06-14)
Ronaldo:
- finishing 10
- long shot 10
- heading 9
- passing 8
- vision 8
- playmaking 8
- crossing 9
- dribbling 9
- ball control 9
- technique 9
- tricks 10
- pace 10
- acceleration 9
- freekick 9
- stamina 9
- strength 9
- athleticism 10
- balance 8
- agility 9
- composure 9
- movement 9
Messi
- finishing 10
- long shot 8
- heading 7
- passing 9
- vision 10
- playmaking 10
- crossing 8
- dribbling 10
- ball control 10
- technique 10
- tricks 8
- pace 8
- acceleration 9
- freekick 8
- stamina 8
- strength 7
- athleticism 7
- balance 10
- agility 10
- composure 9
- movement 9
I’d say Messi has more 10s but Ronaldo has higher average stats and fewer weakness back in those days. Sure if we compare now Messi would look better overall.
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Aye he bought Ramsey the same way Messi bought Memphis
Can’t believe how top tier Barcelona have been with the amount of top tier players they have had at near 100m for some players and got destruct by Suarez leaving almost on the same year. Messi just can’t win the big titles for them without World Cup Spanish team at it’s core
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