Michel Platini: Uefa to 'ease' financial fair play rules

Invictus

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The newly rich clubs spend more because they have to. All things being equal, players won't join them.

Ticket prices are not linked to club spending. Ticket prices are a function of what the market will bear.
They don't actually have to, it's an erroneous assumption. The likes of Dortmund and Atletico are testament to the fact that you don't need to spend hundreds of millions or provide €200 million per annum 'partnerships' to your club to fund incredible transfer sprees. There are ways to progressively and organically build up your image than upsetting the whole transfer market and blowing the whole monetary scale out of proportion.

To address the second point, I'd like to raise a broader socio-economical issue. This isn't about defending United or essentially trivial football rivalries or trying to diminish other clubs. Feck that. The core issue is addressing the stupid money involved in football, especially through the last decade. In some ways, it will directly or indirectly affect relatively insignificant pleb 'consumers' like me or you. Every time a club pays €60-70 million for a player, they are forced to recover that from their revenue, be it marketing (Nike raising replica prices, lowering wages for workers, Sky raising subscription rates) or other means, and the burden is ultimately borne by the common man, even those financed by Sheikhs and Oligarchs. It's a really sad reflection on modern football and the soul-less, apathetic, money spinning entity it has become.
 

stevoc

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No other club in the league could have dreamt of spending the amount of money Man Utd did on a defender and a teenager back then. Buying Ferdinand and Rooney was simply a non starter at those prices for every other club.
Newcastle bid £24m for Rooney and we matched it. Also Chelsea were spending £100m+ every summer back then i think they could have afforded Rooney easily enough.
 

Eboue

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To address the second point, I'd like to raise a broader socio-economical issue. This isn't about defending United or essentially trivial football rivalries or trying to diminish other clubs. Feck that. The core issue is addressing the stupid money involved in football, especially through the last decade. In some ways, it will directly or indirectly affect relatively insignificant pleb 'consumers' like me or you. Every time a club pays €60-70 million for a player, they are forced to recover that from their revenue, be it marketing (Nike raising replica prices, lowering wages for workers, Sky raising subscription rates) or other means, and the burden is ultimately borne by the common man. It's a really sad reflection on modern football and the soul-less, apathetic, money spinning entity it has become.
I agree with you on how money has come to dominate everything. But you are wrong on ticket prices. That's simply not how economics works. The prices are designed based on the market.

If the price of syrup goes up, are you now willing to pay more for a coke?
 

Invictus

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I agree with you on how money has come to dominate everything. But you are wrong on ticket prices. That's simply not how economics works. The prices are designed based on the market.

If the price of syrup goes up, are you now willing to pay more for a coke?
Fair enough. On second thought, I'll retract that statement. But surely you must agree that the likes of City and PSG are distorting football economics as we knew it, atleast more so than other members of the pre-existing elite on a scale of 1-10.
 

Brwned

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Your hypothetical situations are probably true but at the same time it would most likely be a 4th placed finish every now and again. The only sustainable way Everton could regularly compete for a league title again against United is if a billionaire buys us and FFP stops that from happening . OK you get the odd one out like Atletico but that is extremely rare. How can Everton compete when the rules are you spend what you earn and United earn probably sextuple what we do?
That's a flawed argument, IMO. Dortmund, Atléti and Juve have all shown that you can build a successful team on a budget through a long-term vision, a well defined strategy and the right people in charge to implement that strategy.

The reason we haven't seen that in England is because of Chelsea and City. No other leagues have two financial behemoths that came into the league before the start of this decade. Without City, Tottenham would have been England's equivalent. They would've been a perfect example of how to build a team capable of competing at the the highest level through strong decision-making right throughout the club. They didn't get a chance to show that because City spent £350m net on transfer fees while Spurs made a profit.
 
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Eboue

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Fair enough. On second thought, I'll retract that statement. But surely you must agree that the likes of City and PSG are distorting football economics as we knew it, atleast more so than other members of the pre-existing elite on a scale of 1-10.
Yes, I definitely agree. I just don't have s fundamental objection to it.
 

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For the best anyway, unless you are Manchester United, Bayern, Madrid and the rest of the status quo.
I agree completely. FFP, whatever its actual intentions, was only going to make it absolutely impossible for anyone to ever rise much above their current station especially regarding promoted sides. Insurmountable disadvantages, that one or two successful seasons cannot offset.
 

Nucks

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That's a flawed argument, IMO. Dortmund, Atléti and Juve have all shown that you can build a successful team on a budget through a long-term vision, a well defined strategy and the right people in charge to implement that strategy.

The reason we haven't seen that in England is because of Chelsea and City. No other leagues have two financial behemoths that came into the league before the start of this decade. Without City, Tottenham would have been England's equivalent. They would've been a perfect example of how to build a team capable of competing at the the highest level through strong decision-making right throughout the club. They didn't get a chance to show that because City spent £350m net on transfer fees while Spurs made a profit.
You proved his argument.

Dortmund, Athletico and Juventus are all one solid tier down from the true giants. This allows them one off type seasons, or even a couple of seasons, however, they simply cannot financially maintain their presence. Look at Athletico now. Look at Dortmund now. Their best players get scooped. Juventus may be different because Italy doesn't seem to have the same financial juggernauts that Germany, France, England and Spain have.
 

Nogbadthebad

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Yes, I definitely agree. I just don't have s fundamental objection to it.
You should really, the end game for this won't be to many peoples liking.

A middle ground FFP benefits us, Manchester United, to the detriment of every other club in the world.
The Glazer's end game is selling us for a huge profit, £2 billion probably, it will be one of these uber rich that buys, I would take a guess at a Chinese business rather than Arab but the point is they will be of similar wealth as the other oil businesses.

If there are restrictions on spending still, then we have what the owners can manage to push through plus the profits we already make which is vastly more than any of the others. Madrid and Barca are both owned by shareholders and thus cannot be bought out, making us the de facto richest club in the world by a significant margin able to outbid and outspend every one else with ease.

FFP needs to remain as it is, along with some spending restrictions, that is the only way to ensure that smaller clubs have a chance. Without FFP, for instance, curbing the spending of city and PSG in particular, I doubt Arsenal would have been able to sign either Ozil or Sanchez.
 

Snow

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It's incredible the amount of people who deny the point of your second sentence. Platini on record has said FFP was introduced following the requests of owners including Abramovic, yet you'll still get people laughably pointing to the demise of Portsmouth and Rangers as the real reason FFP was established. I have no problem with people arguing FFP is fair and justified, but to deny its origin and purpose is silly.
Roman was already ahead of the curve. Chelsea owe Roman more than a billion pounds that won't be paid back. FFP came to late to have a great effect on Chelsea.
 

acnumber9

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Yeah it would be awful if rich clubs dominated trophies year after year. You might even see one super rich club win 13 out of 20 league titles. If that ever happened, football would have well and truly gone mad.
Yeah, why should the best managed clubs be the most successful? Hard work shouldn't be rewarded.
 

RooneyLegend

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I think too many people fall for that. I remember on Sunday supplement a while ago, one of them said FFP "stopped clubs dreaming". :lol:
There needs to be a way for clubs like Dortmund or Southampton to progress and develop. As opposed to allowing rich owners to just pump a club full of money.
With no wage caps its impossible for those teams to have sustainable success. While its possible to have a great thing going, its increasingly difficult for these organic productions to take place. Take Dortmund for example, the teams that have destroyed it are, Madrid, United and mostly Bayern. None of them are Sugar daddy clubs but can do what they want as financial the gap between the mega clubs and the rest is bigger than ever. Southampton had us, pool, arsenal already looking to slow down their traction.

Honestly, even with these 'doped' clubs being restricted these teams aren't holding on to players any better. In anyway, there aren't enough of these doped clubs around for it to have a catastrophic effect on the game.
 

RetroStu

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Could be bad news for us as FFP at the moment pretty much makes us the richest club in the world. If FFP gets relaxed too much, sugar daddy clubs will just hoover up all the talent.

Also its obvious sugar daddy clubs have paid them off over this, corrupt to the core.
 

FortBoyard

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I actually have to say I agree with that. Well what I will say is I have never encountered a more sanctimonious and cantankerous poster than yourself.

You seem to me like one of those types who is smart enough, but thinks they are a lot smarter than they are.

I think Albert Camus said it best 'the need to be right is the sign of a vulgar mind'. You need to learn to be less abrasive and more concessionary. Then you would have less posts on this Internet forum which I find constantly in the way of decent discussion.
 

Tyrion

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You don't give a feck about the middle ground. Few fans of United, Madrid, Bayern or Barcelona care. No one gave a feck about the inequality in football before the big bad wolves of Chelsea, City and PSG came along and ruined everything for the poor Southamptons, Evertons and Atleticos who were otherwise on their way to the top.
God, you're good. Hey, what are the colours of my eyes? Am I right handed? Let's put your powers to the limit.
 

Tyrion

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I bet it made a world of difference to Everton when they lost their best player in Rooney to United and not Chelsea, for example. Selling him to Chelsea would have been just morally wrong.
As I've said, I'd much prefer other restrictions on transfer spending.
 

C'est Moi Cantona

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Surely it'll just be an easing of the rules and not just a mad free for all, if the rules are dropped like before then FIFA will have all the top clubs hammering on their door demanding an explanation, I see a slight tweak that's all.

And it is totally unfair to bring Chelsea into it, they have sold players very well and have stayed within the rules this way, for heaven sake PSG handed them £50 m for Luiz, way above what he is worth.
 

C'est Moi Cantona

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Fair enough IMO, although the Premiership FFP will now put English clubs at a disadvantage.
An interesting point, how ill this work?

Say the rules are dropped by FIFA (which I doubt) and City spend £200 million, how will this work within the premiership rules? And what would the punishment be?
 

diarm

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does this news remind anyone else of that annoying bloody toothpaste ad?

Denitst: "people are always telling me that their sensitivity has come back so I ask them if they're still using their sensitivity toothpaste? 'No' they say. 'Why not?' I ask them. 'Because my sensitivity went away!' they say.
 

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Roman was already ahead of the curve. Chelsea owe Roman more than a billion pounds that won't be paid back. FFP came to late to have a great effect on Chelsea.
Exactly, that's why Abramovic was one of the owners who pressured UEFA into its introduction.
 

R'hllor

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Never had much against spending if its spent for benefit of the club,academy or investing in players but my issue is that in the start of the "project" they inflated market so much,i understand they maybe were not able to attract players with anything but money but my word,amounts spent for some players like Santa Cruz,Lescott etc. Then agents saw blood and even then things werent good with those leachers but after things turned even worse.

Maybe i am wrong with all this but i would not pay 22 mil for Lescott,17 for Cruz,32 for Robinho etc.(without even mentioning how much they inflated things wage wise,agents fees) and that was like 5/6 years ago.
 

Ole's_toe_poke

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That's a flawed argument, IMO. Dortmund, Atléti and Juve have all shown that you can build a successful team on a budget through a long-term vision, a well defined strategy and the right people in charge to implement that strategy.

They had a couple of good seasons but atleast in Atleti and Dortmund's case, their best players were taken one by one and eventually the status quo was achieved.

FFP pretty much denies any lesser club the chance to dream of being a club that regularly competes with the big boys. You will have the odd clubs breaking the status quo from time to time but they will eventually be picked apart by the bigger clubs.

I'd also disregard your Juventus example. They are the biggest club in Italy which gives them pretty much first pick to the best players in Italy and they still have massive pulling power in Europe.

I can't believe it but I am completely in @Eboue's camp on this one.
 

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Rather see Chelsea and City challenge rather than the same old clubs each year. If I was a United fan I would feel the same way as you but from the way I see it it is to protect the already established super clubs.
You would have had CL football last season and probably some others before that if it weren't for City jumping the queue through pure good fortune. Who knows how you gradually might have taken the club forward on the back of that. As one of the bigger traditional clubs in England I'm surprised you feel that way about the sugar daddy clubs as some of the worst affected clubs by them are probably Everton, Spurs and Villa in my opinion.
 

justboy68

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They had a couple of good seasons but atleast in Atleti and Dortmund's case, their best players were taken one by one and eventually the status quo was achieved.

FFP pretty much denies any lesser club the chance to dream of being a club that regularly competes with the big boys. You will have the odd clubs breaking the status quo from time to time but they will eventually be picked apart by the bigger clubs.

I'd also disregard your Juventus example. They are the biggest club in Italy which gives them pretty much first pick to the best players in Italy and they still have massive pulling power in Europe.

I can't believe it but I am completely in @Eboue's camp on this one.
And without it they can? Without taking massive risks and potentially bankrupting the club and costing the fans plenty of heartache and money I mean. Or simply winning the lottery like City did I guess. Atletico are still plenty competitive with the big boys and they've done it purely through good management. Any team can have hope that a Simeone comes along and brings them some success and trophies. Better that than seeing a historic club sell their best players to and get leapfrogged by any old club who happened to become a play toy for some Sheik from the UAE.
 

Eboue

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They had a couple of good seasons but atleast in Atleti and Dortmund's case, their best players were taken one by one and eventually the status quo was achieved.

FFP pretty much denies any lesser club the chance to dream of being a club that regularly competes with the big boys. You will have the odd clubs breaking the status quo from time to time but they will eventually be picked apart by the bigger clubs.

I'd also disregard your Juventus example. They are the biggest club in Italy which gives them pretty much first pick to the best players in Italy and they still have massive pulling power in Europe.

I can't believe it but I am completely in @Eboue's camp on this one.
One of us
One of us
 

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And without it they can? Without taking massive risks and potentially bankrupting the club and costing the fans plenty of heartache and money I mean. Or simply winning the lottery like City did I guess. Atletico are still plenty competitive with the big boys and they've done it purely through good management. Any team can have hope that a Simeone comes along and brings them some success and trophies. Better that than seeing a historic club sell their best players to and get leapfrogged by any old club who happened to become a play toy for some Sheik from the UAE.
Atletico are not just any team, they have been a fairly big side for some time now.
 

C'est Moi Cantona

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Just had a quick hawk around the other forums to see their stance on this.

Liverpool : Think FSG will now abandon ship as their whole business model is shaped around FFP working.

Arsenal: Think us, City, and Chelsea will now outbid everyone.

City: Seem to think the rules have been scraped altogether, and now world dominance rest between themselves, and PSG.

My take: There is no way this can be scraped altogether as so many clubs have done so much to abide by them, and FIFA will have the real world powers (Madrid, Barcelona, Us, Bayern, etc) demanding an explanation.
 

arthurka

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Anyone expect anything else? Platini has been working towards this for some years now. His ties with PSG are too big to not giving them a green light to spend some of that hard earn cash..
 

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God, you're good. Hey, what are the colours of my eyes? Am I right handed? Let's put your powers to the limit.
It's not that huge of a deduction, and it fits the majority of United fans, who are rankled at the thought of City winning any more leagues or doing serious damage in Europe. Quit the bullshit about fairness.
 

Nighteyes

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Good.

FFP was ridiculous in any case designed purely to put a stop to increase in competition from lesser clubs.
 

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It's not that huge of a deduction, and it fits the majority of United fans, who are rankled at the thought of City winning any more leagues or doing serious damage in Europe. Quit the bullshit about fairness.
I'm 21 and I've never spoken to you about this afaik. You've assumed it based on the club that I and millions of other support. It's not a deduction. It's a lazy generalisation that avoids the point.
 

Nucks

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You think that's luck? Utd weren't the best managed club in the league?
I think you should clarify what we are talking about here.

I think my position is pretty much unassailable. The richest clubs in all the major leagues win an overwhelming majority of the time. Are they always the best run? The common factor is money. Be it City money, Madrid money, United money, Munich money or Chelsea money.

Can a well run club make a go of it for a time? Sure, Dortmund and Athletic have bucked the odds recently, but that is fleeting. In the end money is telling.

Now, are you making the argument that United is rich because it was well managed? I'd have to disagree with that. United is rich, because it has traditionally been one of the biggest and most supported English clubs, and it had a period of resurgence that roughly coincided with the arrival of big money and commercialization in football. Is that skill? Is that timing? Is that luck? What if Liverpool peaked at the dawn of the big money TV era? United made its own luck, but it was lucky to have that specific set of circumstances present at that moment when United was best placed to capitalize on it.
 

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You would have had CL football last season and probably some others before that if it weren't for City jumping the queue through pure good fortune. Who knows how you gradually might have taken the club forward on the back of that. As one of the bigger traditional clubs in England I'm surprised you feel that way about the sugar daddy clubs as some of the worst affected clubs by them are probably Everton, Spurs and Villa in my opinion.
Using the same logic Liverpool would of won the league last year. It is for the greater good.
 

antihenry

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I think you should clarify what we are talking about here.

I think my position is pretty much unassailable. The richest clubs in all the major leagues win an overwhelming majority of the time. Are they always the best run? The common factor is money. Be it City money, Madrid money, United money, Munich money or Chelsea money.

Can a well run club make a go of it for a time? Sure, Dortmund and Athletic have bucked the odds recently, but that is fleeting. In the end money is telling.

Now, are you making the argument that United is rich because it was well managed? I'd have to disagree with that. United is rich, because it has traditionally been one of the biggest and most supported English clubs, and it had a period of resurgence that roughly coincided with the arrival of big money and commercialization in football. Is that skill? Is that timing? Is that luck? What if Liverpool peaked at the dawn of the big money TV era? United made its own luck, but it was lucky to have that specific set of circumstances present at that moment when United was best placed to capitalize on it.
Very well put.
 

Viral United

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I think you should clarify what we are talking about here.

I think my position is pretty much unassailable. The richest clubs in all the major leagues win an overwhelming majority of the time. Are they always the best run? The common factor is money. Be it City money, Madrid money, United money, Munich money or Chelsea money.

Can a well run club make a go of it for a time? Sure, Dortmund and Athletic have bucked the odds recently, but that is fleeting. In the end money is telling.

Now, are you making the argument that United is rich because it was well managed? I'd have to disagree with that. United is rich, because it has traditionally been one of the biggest and most supported English clubs, and it had a period of resurgence that roughly coincided with the arrival of big money and commercialization in football. Is that skill? Is that timing? Is that luck? What if Liverpool peaked at the dawn of the big money TV era? United made its own luck, but it was lucky to have that specific set of circumstances present at that moment when United was best placed to capitalize on it.
You are right United made its own luck and became one of richest club.
But that opportunity available to every club, and United strategy work out.
Can we say same for sugger daddy club? Do we have enough sugger daddy to buy all PL club?
There will be clubs who will always going to remain small club. So allowing sugger daddy is not answer.

I even doubt any sugger daddy will going to buy EPL club as now they have to put hell lots of money in club to even rich in CL place and still it will not guarantee.
 

finneh

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The idea behind FFP was to (according to UEFA) to prevent clubs going bust. It wasn't, it was to maintain the Status Quo.
if they really wanted to safeguard teams then a solution would be that a owner has to set up a fund to allow the club to survive for 3 years in the event of an emergency. If the club posts losses of £100 million then the owner must put £300 million into the fund to allow the club to survive for 3 years. If they lose £80 million the next year, then the owner removes £60 million from the fund.
Exactly the point I've made numerous times. There's far better systems to protect Football clubs without resorting to effectively cementing 5-6 clubs perpetual domination.