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- Mar 19, 2008
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Who is Fearless's mate?Don't waste your time that one and his mate. They have no shame.
Who is Fearless's mate?Don't waste your time that one and his mate. They have no shame.
Yeah and no one seems to be talking about it, also shows how much the US and Israel regard so called international law.Apologies if this has been brought up already in this thread, and maybe I'm being naive to think international law should still mean something in the Israeli context, but still, there's UNSC Resolution 478, among others.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_478
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Hmm ok got it.Yep, Clinton first OK'd it but everyone including himself has been delaying signing the final piece of paper.
Here's a brief historic breakdown, written shortly before Trump's announcement. I guess in practice Jerusalem's status was generally seen as something that has to be settled in a peace deal.Hmm ok got it.
Thought this was a brand new Trump thing.
Ok that changes my perception slightly. Still think it’s a bit irresponsible unless a bigger play going on.
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Are you insinuating that Iran is the innocent victim?Tweet
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It always isAre you insinuating that Iran is the innocent victim?
It always is
Thanks 2cents. This is from the conclusion in Revisited, right? Were Morris' conclusions different at all in the original? Morris' work has been widely praised as doing more to uncover what happened in 1948 than anybody else, but that the zionist in him comes out in his conclusions. I think this is an interesting quote from fellow new historian Avi Shlaim:Morris in Revisited: "In examining the causes of the Arab exodus from Palestine over 1947–1949, accurate quantification is impossible. I have tried to show that the exodus occurred in stages and that causation was multi-layered...What happened in Palestine/Israel over 1947–1949 was so complex and varied, the situation radically changing from date to date and place to place, that a single-cause explanation of the exodus from most sites is untenable...At most, one can say that certain causes were important in certain areas at certain times, with a general shift in the spring of 1948 from precedence of cumulative internal Arab factors – lack of leadership, economic problems, breakdown of law and order – to a primacy of external, compulsive causes: Haganah/IDF attacks and expulsions, fear of Jewish attacks and atrocities, lack of help from the Arab world and the AHC and a feeling of impotence and abandonment, and orders from Arab officials and commanders to leave. In general, throughout the war, the final and decisive precipitant to flight in most places was Haganah, IZL, LHI or IDF attack or the inhabitants’ fear of imminent attack."
I wonder, does Morris consider the fact that across the entire zionist leadership (including Ben Gurion), that the idea of "transfer" had been discussed for well over a decade and that by the mid-1940s zionist leaders were united in considering "transfer" to be an essential ingredient if there was to be any kind of Jewish state in Palestine?According to Morris, up until April there were very few cases of coerced expulsion or destruction of villages - "in the war’s first four months, between the end of November 1947 and the end of March 1948, there were no preparations for mass expulsion and there were almost no cases of expulsion or the leveling of villages". He then argues that "as a result of Arab belligerence and the Yishuv’s sense of siege, fragility and isolation", a harsher policy of transfer came into play from April onwards.
WTF does more neutral mean??. You either are or you're not.Perhaps its time for a more neutral mediator of peace talks?
The US isn't doing anyone any favours with their grossly biased approach, not even Israel. Doesn't help that the POTUS is catering towards his base who are essentially the white Hamas.
I find it hilarious that the most intolerant culture ever has the chutzpah to lecture others on tolerance.The Palestinian Authority should dissolve itself, it was set up as part of the peace process, but since that's now dead, it has no reason for being. I've said this for years, this is an anti-apartheid struggle
I don't think his conclusions were ultimately different (he claims they weren't), but I think there is slightly more emphasis on what he calls Arab intransigence in Revisited, which according to him reflects the new archival material he found in the 90s but can definitely be speculated to be a result of his own political journey which culminated in his disillusionment with Oslo after 2000. Either way, Morris leaves nothing out which might lead a reader to come to a different conclusion (unlike say Pappe or, on the other side, Karsh), which IMO is the sign of a truly great historian.This is from the conclusion in Revisited, right? Were Morris' conclusions different at all in the original?
Absolutely, he devotes a lot of time to this. He claims the idea goes back at least to the 1920s, and was consolidated once it became clear that the Jews could/would not become a majority in Palestine through migration alone.I wonder, does Morris consider the fact that across the entire zionist leadership (including Ben Gurion), that the idea of "transfer" had been discussed for well over a decade and that by the mid-1940s zionist leaders were united in considering "transfer" to be an essential ingredient if there was to be any kind of Jewish state in Palestine?
The most intolerant culture ever? Do you even read what you're writing before you hit post?I find it hilarious that the most intolerant culture ever has the chutzpah to lecture others on tolerance.
I can find Jewish people who say the opposite.I find it hilarious that the most intolerant culture ever has the chutzpah to lecture others on tolerance.
I can find Jewish people who say the opposite.
Yeah because Palestinian Christians are all flag-waving jihadist zealots. Do you even read the crap you post these days?WTF does more neutral mean??. You either are or you're not.
Anyway, it's an impossible ask. The conflict is the fault line between Western democracy and Jihad, between brave recognition of this fact and those who cower to the fear or Islamic terror attacks (or an oil embargo back in the day).
There is no in-between, and those who believe there is have only served (innocently of otherwise), to keep the flames going.
I was talking about Jewish people who will support my point that Israel is a racist stateReally? - how many Arab Jews currently hold high positions in Arab countries?
Show us.
Despite religious minorities being allowed to live in Iran, a majority of the Jewish population of Iran has left the country (to Israel or the US) for good reason. A Muslim will also be punished by death for converting to Judaism. Horrible example.@Fearless
What's your view on the Jewish community in Iran and those of them who say they feel safe there and have no intention of going to Israel?
Are they traitors for not migrating to their Holy Land?
Bang on.Palestinians got sold out by the F-ing Saudis.
They've always had it right. Fight - Fight for what you believe to be yours. And if you die fighting for it...so be it. Because, no one is going to stand up for them and the Israelis, while acting like victims, will continue to destroy their will to survive.
Israel will win because arabs leaders are uneducated pieces of shit, who less than 70 years ago were busy playing cops and robbers in the desert lol. Oh and did I mention, they are cowards.
Cowards to a man
Then here's another one for you. That's two Arabs in prominent Israeli Government positions compared to your absolute zero Jews in Arab ones.I was talking about Jewish people who will support my point that Israel is a racist state
Your man up there is a useful idiot, he gets to parade around and paid nicely for the privilege, you get your propaganda tool
André Azoulay is a Moroccan Jew who is a long-time senior adviser to King Muhammad VI and his father.Then here's another one for you. That's two Arabs in prominent Israeli Government positions compared to your absolute zero Jews in Arab ones.
I'll give you that, though he looks like the sole exception.André Azoulay is a Moroccan Jew who is a long-time senior adviser to King Muhammad VI and his father.
The sole exception, as opposed to the absolute plentitude of two.I'll give you that, though he looks like the sole exception.
..examples.The sole exception, as opposed to the absolute plentitude of two.
Yes apartheid. A token gesture here or their doesn't mean much because they will never be allowed in enough numbers to hold power over Jewish IsraelisThen here's another one for you. That's two Arabs in prominent Israeli Government positions compared to your absolute zero Jews in Arab ones.
On the contrary the Palestinian Authority does have a reason for being. The PA have powers under Oslo I and Oslo II.The Palestinian Authority should dissolve itself, it was set up as part of the peace process, but since that's now dead, it has no reason for being. [...]
IsraelOn the contrary the Palestinian Authority does have a reason for being. The PA have powers under Oslo I and Oslo II.
For example, who will be responsible for overseeing the powers transferred to the PA under Oslo I, in the areas of education; health; social protection; direct taxation, and; tourism?
I hope for the sake of the Israelis that never comes to fruition. A demographic death warrant.Israel
Its Israels own fault, the Israelis have no interest in negotiating a truly independent Palestine, therefore this must turn into a struggle for equal rightsI hope for the sake of the Israelis that never comes to fruition. A demographic death warrant.
A two state solution would only prolong the conflict.Its Israels own fault, the Israelis have no interest in negotiating a truly independent Palestine, therefore this must turn into a struggle for equal rights