Milwall will be Millwall: fans boo players for taking a knee

Jippy

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Fluctuation0161

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markhughes said:
Racism clearly exists in the UK, I doubt any sane person would argue otherwise.

There are clearly issues that need to be dealt with, disproportionate “stop and searches” for black people for instance and also a similar situation in regards to incarceration in this country.

For people who saying that you need to differentiate the “BLM” slogan/movement from the organisation and their political goals, well that is just plain wrong, it absolutely matters.

Hopefully the UK can find its own anti racism voice/movement that focuses on our issues here in the UK rather than adopting a US version and trying to make it fit here.

The UK has it’s own issues with racism without a doubt and we all know the British Empires bloody role in history and our contribution to slavery in the US, Brazil and the Caribbean.

Many of you have already been keen to label me racist or “transparent” today for daring to critique the BLM movement and their goal to defund the police, stating that we shouldn’t confuse the message with the organisation who founded the message, really?

Also it has been stated that “taking a knee” didn’t start with BLM however it has since been adopted by them and will be forever associated with the group, rightly or wrongly. In fact the Premier League also started adding it to players shirts and citing it throughout the programming, once they realised who they were associated with they dropped it like a bad habit.

What id rather see in this country is a movement that focuses on real issues like the ones I mentioned above and also addresses issues like knife crime amongst young black people.

For instance despite only making up 13% of the population of London the majority of of knife crime is committed by black people. Is this because black people are inherently bad? Of course not, I suspect that this is likely to be linked to poverty rather than the colour of anyone’s skin however why not focus on the actual issues rather than spouting off some nonsense slogan in order to help you feel superior?

Marcus Rashford has been a shining light throughout this difficult period and is an example to all people in this country of how actionable ideas and activism can change the lives of those less fortunate, he is the gold standard for me.

If someone would like to engage in constructive discussion then feel free but I suspect that this is probably not going to happen on a football forum!
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As you said, taking the knee was not started by BLM. It started and continues to be an act working towards equality. Just because BLM may have used it does not make it an act exclusive to them. Many groups and people not associated with BLM use it too.

Knife crime likely is linked to poverty and education. Also, youth support in deprived areas is underfunded, so there are very few ways out.

The very reason black people are disproportionately in these areas of poverty has roots in systemic racism. From historic prejudice, just after Windrush in the 50s, 60s, when the glass ceiling for a black person was bus driver, signs in houses for for rental read "no dogs, no babies, no blacks", essentially they were only allowed to live in the high poverty areas. Reduced opportunities in both employment and education stem from that. The impact of those limitations continue today. Just see the story of the black barrister who constantly gets directed to the dock in courtrooms because the ushers assume so.

Also, in the modern day, black people are (11 times?) more likely to be stopped and searched, so obviously more will be caught. You're much more likely to get away with a crime if you are not black. Point is, the stats are skewed by that. It is a self fulfilling prophecy to some degree.

Marcus Rashford is obviously a top bloke and legend for his particular campaign. But his campaigning had nothing to do with racial equality. So it's not really relevant to this topic. Unless you're simply trying to demonstrate that he is a "good black" not like all those "bad blacks"?
 

Fluctuation0161

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Adam McNeill said:
I would like to understand why they were boo'ing before putting them on the chopping block:

1. Are they being racist? - If so, that is completely unacceptable (TBH fear that this is why they were doing it)
2. Are they doing it because they don't want politics/other peoples opinions brought into a game of football that they have paid for? - If so, I can understand that (you wouldn't expect to go to the theatre/cinema and before the play/film starts they all "take a knee".

Racism is a big problem, everyone on this forum I am sure agrees with that, its only slightly better now than when I was a young man living in Blackburn (38 now), I still see passive racism day to day from what you would consider "regular / average Joe people".

Having said that, I really want to know why people are taking the knee. I argue that it's doing nothing other than people hopping onto the social bandwagon to be part of a trend/story, it's too easy.

To tackle something so big needs EFFORT (look at Rashy with the school dinners for instance).

Anti-racism needs a lot of time/investment putting into our culture in the UK, it should be taught properly in schools and people should be expected to "out" anybody being racist, it's not acceptable for you to do it, and its not acceptable for your friends to do it.

In a years time, when the next social media trend is taking place, dropping a knee will be well forgotten and I fear it didn't help.

Get these role models going into schools around the UK and investing time into teaching children.

I compare all of this to the people who clapped the NHS, I felt like they just had to be part of the story or were being sheeple, you should have seen our neighbours... it became embarrassing (who could out do each other the most to get the most attention).

If we were really that supportive of the NHS we should have upped everyone's tax from 20% to 21% and use those funds to give them all pay rises - For the record I would have happily done that!!
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Nice that you want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Do you not know the history of Millwall fans?
 

Foxbatt

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I am not surprised at QPR not wanting to the take the knee. I am sure if Tony Fernandes was still Chairman they would have done it.
 

reelworld

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sammsky1 said:
Good compromise or a complete kop out?

Millwall and QPR players to stand arm-in-arm in 'show of solidarity' before Tuesday's match: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55223935

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The club to scared to piss off their racist fans. Pointless club, should go down and go into administration for all I care.
The players should ask do this twice before each half and double the time to piss off the racist more
 

markhughes

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Fluctuation0161 said:
Marcus Rashford is obviously a top bloke and legend for his particular campaign. But his campaigning had nothing to do with racial equality. So it's not really relevant to this topic. Unless you're simply trying to demonstrate that he is a "good black" not like all those "bad blacks"?
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Not at all, we were discussing the fact that poverty is likely the underlying cause of violent crime (or at least an element) and I called Rashford out because his work is directly affecting families living below the poverty line, essentially an example of what can be practically achieved with a specific plan.

I certainly agree with many of your other points from your post regarding the historical impact of systematic racism which is still felt today, I feel this is understated by many.
 

groovyalbert

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I thought BLM was no longer affiliated with the knee being taken ahead of matches and that it was just a chance for teams to highlight the need for equality?

The irony which I'm sure won't be acknowledged by anyone who feels the need to boo players for this is that, by booing, they're showing why action against discrimination is sadly still needed.

Flip side of that, of course, is by booing you are arguably helping drive the thought that racism in football and society is still a very real problem.

So thanks booers?
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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So I'm not up to date but why was the QPR policy not to take the knee anyway?
 

United Junkie

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groovyalbert said:
I thought BLM was no longer affiliated with the knee being taken ahead of matches and that it was just a chance for teams to highlight the need for equality?

The irony which I'm sure won't be acknowledged by anyone who feels the need to boo players for this is that, by booing, they're showing why action against discrimination is sadly still needed.

Flip side of that, of course, is by booing you are arguably helping drive the thought that racism in football and society is still a very real problem.

So thanks booers?
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You think they care?
 

Halftrack

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LVGSdive said:
Those fans should stop spending their hard earned money there if they can't voice their opinion. The club would soon be begging for them to come back.
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If their opinion is that showing opposition to racism is bad, they should be banned from attending games tbh
 

Nou_Camp99

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Every time they boo it dock them 1pt and restrict the number of fans they can allow in for the next home game. You watch how quickly the message sinks in. They might dislike ethnic groups and whoever else but they will dislike their football club being punished far more.

Not a single other club has had any issue with this movement. Racism needs to be eradicated from the game. They are just playing up to their infamous Millwall 'horrible fans nobody likes us' reputation. Ban them and dock them pts.
 

Gibb11

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sammsky1 said:
Good compromise or a complete kop out?

Millwall and QPR players to stand arm-in-arm in 'show of solidarity' before Tuesday's match: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55223935

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A good compromise.

Every footballer has been pressured to 'take the knee' and the Premier League made a horrible judgement to implement this movement which iv said from the start (obviously this view is hugely unpopular on this site). In reality outside of libcafe a large proportion of the general public wouldn't feel comfortable doing the 'gesture,' many see the flaws in this despite being labelled as being racist themselves. But it's been swept in despite football authorities previously coming down strong on political stances to the point where a player gets carded for taking his shirt off in celebration. However this particular 'message' was perhaps deemed non political and a clear right vs wrong fight for justice, yet unsurprisingly over a little amount of time people woke up (pun intended) to the problematic nature of BLM. Despite its apologists you cant get away from it's political nature, however authorities were to quick to rush this through exposing thier lack of nuance to the racism subject and all because of one cop from another continent. They thought this is 'beyond politics' and determined to be on 'the right side of history'.

Should we be surprised that there was booing, absolutely not. To many though this just serves as a confirmation bias that we do need this in as we 'hear the racists loud and clear now' and we need more performative gestures (sorry kneeling) because we are clearly a racist country. God help most other countries in the world mind but hey ho.
 

thatsme

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There are many perfectly very valid reasons for not support this movement.
I have listened to what some of their followers and leaders have said during the summer of mayhem in America and no way in hell could I support such an extreme movement!

And for those who brand everyone who does not the BLM movement as a far right racist, then here's just a couple of people who spoke out yesterday against BLM. One black, one white. One right of centre and one left of centre.
Political activist Dominique Samuels said "she would have booed with the Millwall fans."

And then there was good old George Galloway.
Galloway can be accused of being many things, but a far tight racist cannot not possibly be one of them!
He called them a "devisive, seperatist movement" which i completely agree with. He also mentioned a poll which showed a significant majority do not support this movement.

Kemi Badenoch spoke out very strongly against BLM in the commons a couple of weeks ago.
Pritti Patel, Savid Javid and even Trevor Phillips are a few more who spoken put against BLM.

I believe the vast, vast majority of people are not racist and want any injustice towards any person(s) looked into and dealt with by the laws that are already in place to deal with injustice.
So, a big yes to supporting injustice, but a firm no to supporting this movement.
 

RUCK4444

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Gibb11 said:
A good compromise.

Every footballer has been pressured to 'take the knee' and the Premier League made a horrible judgement to implement this movement which iv said from the start (obviously this view is hugely unpopular on this site). In reality outside of libcafe a large proportion of the general public wouldn't feel comfortable doing the 'gesture,' many see the flaws in this despite being labelled as being racist themselves. But it's been swept in despite football authorities previously coming down strong on political stances to the point where a player gets carded for taking his shirt off in celebration. However this particular 'message' was perhaps deemed non political and a clear right vs wrong fight for justice, yet unsurprisingly over a little amount of time people woke up (pun intended) to the problematic nature of BLM. Despite its apologists you cant get away from it's political nature, however authorities were to quick to rush this through exposing thier lack of nuance to the racism subject and all because of one cop from another continent. They thought this is 'beyond politics' and determined to be on 'the right side of history'.

Should we be surprised that there was booing, absolutely not. To many though this just serves as a confirmation bias that we do need this in as we 'hear the racists loud and clear now' and we need more performative gestures (sorry kneeling) because we are clearly a racist country. God help most other countries in the world mind but hey ho.
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It’s simple really, take a knee if you want a more socially accepting society, one that acknowledges the past and is willing to use this gesture as a line in the sand, to demonstrate that we’ve moved on and won’t accept discrimination.

Or be a part of the naysayers on the sidelines booing or downplaying its meaning.

Those Millwall fans make me sick to my stomach. They represent the absolute worst of Britain.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Gibb11 said:
They thought this is 'beyond politics' and determined to be on 'the right side of history'.
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Well - it is.

The people who have a problem with this are insisting on a connection that doesn't exist.

The message is simple, universal and non-political (unless your name rhymes with Jaydolf).
 

Trequarista10

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Mockney said:
Can't quote the video because I'm a newbie
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Brilliant!

Slight aside: I really need to find more content creators like this. A year or so ago I went down the "intellectual dark Web" rabbit hole and associated trolling content providers like PJW on YouTube, and since then my YouTube recommendations are filled with right wing videos. I'm not opposed to listening to all sides of the spectrum, but I've struggled to find many decent left wing equivalents. Tried forcing myself to watch Majority Report videos, but even though I largely agree with them politically, I find them incredibly annoying, unlikeable and unfunny. I am a child of the Internet, and PJW style trolling is my type of humour, even though I disagree politically.

In short, recommendations please.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Walters_19_MuFc said:
I ignored it because it had nothing to do with what I said.
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Of course it did, keep up. They didn't boo because their players had been instructed by Millwall to not take the knee. Which is what I was asking. In direct relation to your fecking comment.

So they are still a shithouse club.
 
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