Monchi - "I cannot believe Manchester United do not have a Sporting Director."

100% this.

Fans don't want to hear it, but we've spent boatloads of money over the past decade.

The problem isn't that the Glazers don't provide funds, it's that they're wasted on the wrong players.

Plain and simple.

That's where a DOF comes in - his job would be to solely focus on being a real "football maniac", talking and building relationships with scouts, agents & talents and therefore identifiying the players, that would really help us.

Woodward & Co. aren't those kind of guys. They're business men, not football guys.
We've wasted too much money and we're still a long way from challenging for the league. It doesn't make sense for us to sign Sancho for a ridiculous sum when we're still needing quality reinforcements in multiple positions. The best thing that could happen for us is if there was a internal investigation on how so much money was filtered away. And people should be held accountable for our malaise and heads should roll. But unfortunately there doesn't seem to be accountabilty at boardroom level.
 
Top 20 I just checked. And he was a player who has been linked with everywhere since he was 14yrs old. There are others out their. They picked up Renato Sanches for 18mil. He’s just had a good season. No doubt if he does it again he’ll be sold on For a big fee too a big club. A player that none of the big clubs would have signed at the moment due to the risk involved but a player lower level teams would go for.

Just think if you’re semi decent sporting directors are more valuable at a lower level of club. A sporting director is not some sort of magic bullet that is going to sort out Manchester United.

And you think making someone who flopped at both Bayern and Swansea all but their record signing, or paying a similar amount for Osimhen who had a trainwreck of a season at Wolfsburg and 15 goals in Belgium on his CV at the time is proof of how easy their job is? They are making one huge bet after another on the idea that they spot something that others missed. Meanwhile rich clubs just straight up by someone who has proven his worth over several seasons in the CL.
 
Which it should be. We're a publicly traded company on the NYSE. If our CEO's priority is anything other than the well-being of the business itself, he's in the wrong job.
Yep, I know all of the above. I didn’t say any different but there’s a strong link between football success and commercial success, so the CEO of a football has to be competent at both, or appoint a structure/people who are. And thus far, he’s not done too well on the footballing side. Maybe a DoF is the answerC maybe it isnt.
 
pretty sure Liverpool and Bayerm are a committee. I’ve seen City and it doesn’t look like one man either, quite a few seemed in on the discussions of Van Dijk over Laporte in that all or nothing show.

Personally I just don’t see a DOF being allowed to succeed at United. I do agree money has been spent and in part due to the chop changing of managers. I mean LVG was put in place with a plan, The club bottled it under fan unrest and appointed Jose Which was a complete change of direction and now we’ve gone back to a general sort of plan for the future. I don’t think a Dof would have had the power to stop that and would have been marginalised.

I’m pretty sure that scout we got from Juventus who is now the Dof At Zenit, gave that as part of his reasoning for why he left. He felt his opinion was overlooked and inset a pointless role.

Even today there is a story about Jose not wanting to be head coach as he feels it weakens his influence in transfers.

Another thing do we think Marcel Brands at Everton brought in Allan and James or did Ancelotti have more to do with those?

I just don’t think it will happen due to how the club is run.
Michael Edwards and Hasan Salihamidzic are the Sporting directors at both Liverpool and Bayern. But Bayern is the model that Fergie wants us to follow and he's been vocal about that for a long time now. So the difference is that the footballing department is independent from the coaching side with the headcoach reporting to Salihamidzic who in turn reports to Rummenigge.
 
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And you think making someone who flopped at both Bayern and Swansea all but their record signing, or paying a similar amount for Osimhen who had a trainwreck of a season at Wolfsburg and 15 goals in Belgium on his CV at the time is proof of how easy their job is? They are making one huge bet after another on the idea that they spot something that others missed. Meanwhile rich clubs just straight up by someone who has proven his worth over several seasons in the CL.
Yeah take in to account how old those people were when they did those things?

I’m not saying it’s easy at all. Just you can’t do that at a top club because you can’t take a risk on someone like those players. The demand is for instant sucess.
 
Michael Edwards and Hasan Salihamidzic are the Sporting directors at both Liverpool and Bayern. But Bayern is the model that Fergie wants us to follow and he's been vocal about that for a long time now. So the difference is that the footballing department is independent from the coaching side with the headcoach reporting to Salihamidzic who in turn reports to Rummenigge.
Michael Edwards is part of a 3 man committee he may have the title of sporting directors but he’s really a data analyst. Mike Gordon is credited with the appointment of Klopp is part of that team and Dan Follow.

Its not one man making the calls.

In the end this is a pointless discussion because the Glazers will never allow one person to have that sort of power to make all the decisions even if I think they should, they would prefer to protect their dividends and a banker is what is needed for that.
 
Michael Edwards is part of a 3 man committee he may have the title of sporting directors but he’s really a data analyst. Mike Gordon is credited with the appointment of Klopp is part of that team and Dan Follow.

Its not one man making the calls.
No one is saying one man is making the calls but Edwards is the face of their recruitment and has even over ruled Klopp when it came to signing players so that shows you the power he has at the club.

There's a whole team that works in tandem below the Sporting Director and it's the same with Salihamidzic. They manage the footballing side whilst the head-coach concentrates on the playing side on the pitch with some input of course.
 
...they would prefer to protect their dividends and a banker is what is needed for that.

Well, yes - but the way I see it, it still doesn't make much sense that they'd be against hiring a DoF (on principle, as it were).

Under the current "model", United have a chief decision maker on the football side (namely the manager) who answers to Woodward, who answers to the owners, who ultimately sanction deals.

A DoF model would simply mean that the latter would replace the manager (the old-school British style manager, that is) as the chief decision maker with regard to long-term choices (who to buy, who to sell) on the football side. Why would the Glazers have anything against that?
 
Well, yes - but the way I see it, it still doesn't make much sense that they'd be against hiring a DoF (on principle, as it were).

Under the current "model", United have a chief decision maker on the football side (namely the manager) who answers to Woodward, who answers to the owners, who ultimately sanction deals.

A DoF model would simply mean that the latter would replace the manager (the old-school British style manager, that is) as the chief decision maker with regard to long-term choices (who to buy, who to sell) on the football side. Why would the Glazers have anything against that?

they wouldn’t. The CEO/ CFO would still set the budget for transfers and wages, and the DoF would need to work with that.

whether that’s more effective, we don’t know.
 
they wouldn’t.

Exactly - I don't see any reason why they would.

But...why not then?

Indulging Ed (presuming he's actually on some kind of Napoleon syndrome induced power trip - or whatever it is supposed to be)? But why? He's just a pawn after all.

Just not giving a feck? But why? Being shite on the pitch isn't a good thing in itself. We'd make even more money if we were any good.

I mean, the evidence is right there: the current model does NOT work on the football side.

And the idea, in itself, must be known to them. Everyone and his granny has been banging on about it for years.
 
Exactly - I don't see any reason why they would.

But...why not then?

Indulging Ed (presuming he's actually on some kind of Napoleon syndrome induced power trip - or whatever it is supposed to be)? But why? He's just a pawn after all.

Just not giving a feck? But why? Being shite on the pitch isn't a good thing in itself. We'd make even more money if we were any good.

I mean, the evidence is right there: the current model does NOT work on the football side.

And the idea, in itself, must be known to them. Everyone and his granny has been banging on about it for years.

It’s not a universally successful model.

so I can see why there would be resistance. Personally I don’t think it’s Ed on an ego trip, refusing to let go of power, but finding the right structure and people is a challenge.

I’m not giving the club a pass on this, but do understand why it’s taking such a long time.
 
It seems that Barcelona always have someone steeped in Cruyff values and Ajax or Munich always have storied ex players involved.

Our most visionary decision should have been to ask SAF to be DoF straight after leaving with Pochintino as his first appointment. They both famously had lunch days before his retirement. Whether some of our modern hipster fans like it or not, Manchester United is built on the myth of Busby, recreated by Ferguson. If we appoint a DoF he should always have Fergusonian values.

OGS would be a perfect candidate now he also has experience of being manager on top of his playing experience. He's many new contacts at the top shelf of football bureaucracy and been able to analyse many potential players. We could also assume that he would stick around for a while, or until he was asked to step down. If he then decided to appoint someone like Nagelsmann, then the entire fan base would go with it.

I hope this is eventually what happens.

I agree with this but OGS as DOF would be mental imo. He played under SAF but that's it. Mark Hughes is more qualified and hed be a bad choice. Maybe an actual director of football would be a good hire for the Director of Football job?
 
DoF is not a must nor a guarantee... but, considering our club is run poorly consistently in football making decisions at the top.. then it's useful to get one.
Incorrect. Any club that does not have a DoF is doing it wrong. This is an unarguable point.

Now given that any DoF were to be appointed they most assuredly fail because Woodward is terrible and Glazers are terrible owners.

This club will never win another league title of CL title as long as the Glazers own the club.
 
It’s not a universally successful model.

so I can see why there would be resistance. Personally I don’t think it’s Ed on an ego trip, refusing to let go of power, but finding the right structure and people is a challenge.

I’m not giving the club a pass on this, but do understand why it’s taking such a long time.
Why do other clubs get it right so (relatively) quickly?
 
It would make too much sense.

Anyone whose remotely Ole in wouldn't want Rangnick. First of all he's a purist who wouldn't want to spend huge money if he can help it. That probably means no Maguire for 80m, no AWB for 50m, no Sancho for 100m etc. Also from what I've seen in his brief interactions with AC Milan he takes no prisoners. He's got a vision and he'll stick to it even if he irks the big guys at the club. This is what Maldini had to say about him

“Speaking of a role with full managerial powers in both the sporting and technical areas, he invades areas where professionals with regular contracts work. I have some advice for him, before learning Italian he should review the general concepts of respect, as there are colleagues who, despite the many difficulties of the moment, are trying to finish the season in a very professional way, putting the best of Milan before their professional pride”, declared Paolo Maldini.
 
Incorrect. Any club that does not have a DoF is doing it wrong. This is an unarguable point.

Now given that any DoF were to be appointed they most assuredly fail because Woodward is terrible and Glazers are terrible owners.

This club will never win another league title of CL title as long as the Glazers own the club.
Can I please ask in what competency are you making such sweeping statements?
 
Question for anyone who wants a DOF - if we appoint one, are you happy for him to come in and wipe the slate clean with the coaching staff and bring his own in?
 
Question for anyone who wants a DOF - if we appoint one, are you happy for him to come in and wipe the slate clean with the coaching staff and bring his own in?

Yeah I would be because think we need more experienced people than Carrick & McKenna
 
Question for anyone who wants a DOF - if we appoint one, are you happy for him to come in and wipe the slate clean with the coaching staff and bring his own in?
What? What kind of DoF has his own coaching staff? DoF isn't omnipotent with the manager being a yes man to his will.
 
What? What kind of DoF has his own coaching staff? DoF isn't omnipotent with the manager being a yes man to his will.

The head coach is the DOFs subordinate. The head coach (and thus the coaching staff that work for him) are assessed on their performance by the DOF himself, because ultimately they are the guys who's job is to maximise the resources (i.e. squad) that the DOF assembles.
 
The head coach is the DOFs subordinate. The head coach (and thus the coaching staff that work for him) are assessed on their performance by the DOF himself, because ultimately they are the guys who's job is to maximise the resources (i.e. squad) that the DOF assembles.
And as such he relies on people such as the manager to handle the job like coaching and managing a football team and that entails approving the people around him. If you hire Ancelotti or Mourinho or Pep or Klopp you're hiring the manager and a few coaches as well who are most likely filling in vacant spots on the team.

I don't know what fantasy world you live in where a DoF comes in and completely replaces the coaching staff. That would be suicide on a Moyes-esque proportions.
 
Question for anyone who wants a DOF - if we appoint one, are you happy for him to come in and wipe the slate clean with the coaching staff and bring his own in?
I think its coaching where we lack, so if this did happen, it would be a good thing.
 
Someone tell me how Rio or Neville would recommend their mate Ole to be removed from his position? DOF needs to be a non internal guy, nor a yes man.
 
And as such he relies on people such as the manager to handle the job like coaching and managing a football team and that entails approving the people around him. If you hire Ancelotti or Mourinho or Pep or Klopp you're hiring the manager and a few coaches as well who are most likely filling in vacant spots on the team.

I don't know what fantasy world you live in where a DoF comes in and completely replaces the coaching staff. That would be suicide on a Moyes-esque proportions.

Well if he replaces the head coach i.e. Ole, he'll also be replacing most of the other coaches that work for Ole. Just like Moyes replaced Fergies staff, Van Gaal replaced Moyes' staff, Mourinho replaced Van Gaal's staff & we also sacked most of Mourinho's staff with him.
 
Well if he replaces the head coach i.e. Ole, he'll also be replacing most of the other coaches that work for Ole. Just like Moyes replaced Fergies staff, Van Gaal replaced Moyes' staff, Mourinho replaced Van Gaal's staff & we also sacked most of Mourinho's staff with him.
Moyes did more than just bring his own men in. He sacked away the experience in our staff. Other clubs don't do that. Look at the mainstays at Juventus, Bayern, Barca, Real. There are key staff members there with a host of titles to their name. Something Moyes got served on a plate and dismissed. LvG, Mourinho and Ole did no such things.
 
Moyes did more than just bring his own men in. He sacked away the experience in our staff. Other clubs don't do that. Look at the mainstays at Juventus, Bayern, Barca, Real. There are key staff members there with a host of titles to their name. Something Moyes got served on a plate and dismissed. LvG, Mourinho and Ole did no such things.

So has our coaching staff been growing indefinitely since Moyes? You say Moyes was the only one who cleared the slate, so have Van Gaal, Mourinho & Ole just been adding coaches to the staff?

We might have more coaches than players at that rate.
 
Why do other clubs get it right so (relatively) quickly?

Are you saying every club with a DoF get it right?

What about those clubs who keep changing their DoF?

it’s the same as a managerial appointment,its far from guaranteed to be a success.

we might have to get through 2 or 3 directors of football until we find one that works. It’s not a silver bullet.
 
Are you saying every club with a DoF get it right?

What about those clubs who keep changing their DoF?

it’s the same as a managerial appointment,its far from guaranteed to be a success.

we might have to get through 2 or 3 directors of football until we find one that works. It’s not a silver bullet.
Couldn't agree more. A d.o.f. is not some analytics must have (here's an analysis, those with money win). I am in support of one though but I realise the limitations.
 
Are you saying every club with a DoF get it right?
What about those clubs who keep changing their DoF?
it’s the same as a managerial appointment,its far from guaranteed to be a success.
we might have to get through 2 or 3 directors of football until we find one that works. It’s not a silver bullet.
Exactly! And the theory is DoF cant be short term, you have to give them many seasons for their vision to bear fruit. So given its Woodward who will choose, that could mean another 10 years in the big trophy wins wilderness.
 
Anyone whose remotely Ole in wouldn't want Rangnick. First of all he's a purist who wouldn't want to spend huge money if he can help it. That probably means no Maguire for 80m, no AWB for 50m, no Sancho for 100m etc. Also from what I've seen in his brief interactions with AC Milan he takes no prisoners. He's got a vision and he'll stick to it even if he irks the big guys at the club. This is what Maldini had to say about him

“Speaking of a role with full managerial powers in both the sporting and technical areas, he invades areas where professionals with regular contracts work. I have some advice for him, before learning Italian he should review the general concepts of respect, as there are colleagues who, despite the many difficulties of the moment, are trying to finish the season in a very professional way, putting the best of Milan before their professional pride”, declared Paolo Maldini.
That sounds exactly like what we need, and no doubt Woodward's worst nightmare.
 
So has our coaching staff been growing indefinitely since Moyes?
No.
You say Moyes was the only one who cleared the slate
I didn't say that. He fired a bunch of coached, got rid of our 3 most senior coaching members and with it any of SAF's experience that he could have gotten from them.
so have Van Gaal, Mourinho & Ole just been adding coaches to the staff?
No they haven't. Like 5 between them because of others that left to fill in the gulf that Moyes left. I don't belive they fired anyone. Solskjær only brought back Phelan.
We might have more coaches than players at that rate.
We don't.
 
I'm bumping this old thread because It's clear that our sporting structure is not working and we have a dire need of an experienced sporting manager or director.

But then thinking this through, we have had several people dependent on recruiting with targets from the manager and it's not worked for us at all. The trio above the manager are clueless independent of the baldy.

Do we need someone who knows what type of players are suitable to the playing-style of the manager or someone independent of the manager with their own connections to make fit in the team?.

When the above is balanced with what the team requires the most, the Sporting Manager needs to pull something out of the bag and recruit a player, hopefully non obvious to hit us with a £80m transfer bill, and find a player that fits our needs.

But I actually don't see anything like this from the current leadership trio which is really worrying 3 years on from this comment and a year on from our own reshuffle which clearly hasn't yielded the needed results on recruitment.