Which it should be. We're a publicly traded company on the NYSE. If our CEO's priority is anything other than the well-being of the business itself, he's in the wrong job.
Monchi - "I cannot believe Manchester United do not have a Sporting Director."
- Thread starter Hoof the ball
- Start date
Which it should be. We're a publicly traded company on the NYSE. If our CEO's priority is anything other than the well-being of the business itself, he's in the wrong job.
I mean we appointed our actual manager on that basis didn't we? Why else is Ole here?
Personally I'd give it to Keane just because I'd trust him to tell Woodward how it is. Our scouts will identify the talent we just need someone strong enough to filter out players based on profile/attitude and then stand up to Woodward. He'd fall out with everyone within 6 months of course but those 6 months
OGS at least has managerial experience. He managed our reserves, Molde and Cardiff.Let’s not get into an argument of whether that means he’s good enough, but that’s a decade of experience.
What do Rio and Neville have?
a DoF is not a silver bullet to success, a lot of clubs go through them at the same rate as a manager.
again, not saying we dont need change, but do we think that having Rio Ferdinand overseeing all transfers this summer would have made a difference?
I love Roy Keane, but wouldn’t have him anywhere near a decision making role at United.
Sad thing is, as long as we have the Glazers, they're indebted to the man who landed the cash-cow.
But that's exactly why we need a DOF.
Someone, who actually fully concentrates on football matters only and is an expert at that job.
Like @Invictus said, it could maybe also lead to our boardroom doing a better job, since they could focus on the business part. They wouldn't have to deal with the scouting department, identifying talents or negotiations with agents and players, which obviously isn't their strength, as we can see.
Ideally the boardroom does everything business- and markting-related (which is a ton of work btw) and tells the DOF exactly how much money he can spend and what the limits are. The DOF then does everything football related (a lot of talking to the scouts, developing a list of "United-players", innitating contact to the players/agents, negotiating a deal with them and the club etc.) and presents the finalized deals to the boardroom, who then just say "yes" or "no", and it's done.
That's how many successful clubs operate.
In my opinion there is a clear reason why clubs like Dortmund always seem to identify and sign gems for cheap (Dembele, Pulisic, Sancho, Haaland, Bellingham, Reyna etc.), while we spent £183 million on Maguire, Fred and AWB.
Rio and Gary both own multiple business and Gary is already a director of Salford. So what are you on?
How can you say that with a straight face? Just like every other club in the world Sevilla and Lille have their sporting objectives for the season too and since money is not endless they can't just keep cycling through players until someone is a hit, every flop hurts them. Not to mention that when you're a big club you can just buy proven players, that are relatively safe, while guys like Monchi have to go shopping in the section where every target has several question marks about them.
There's a reason why we're seeing unprecedented levels of dominance across Europe, it's because success comes easy when you are rich.
Imagine signing Dembele, Pulisic etc and giving them to Mourinho
That was the manager. And it worked fine when we had a manager as good as Alex Ferguson.
That role though, doesn't exist outside of this club anymore so we can't find anyone half as good. All the top 'managers' in the game are head coaches first (training ground guys) rather than the all encompassing managers of yesteryear.
Do you really think that makes them qualified? Are you being serious?
You just put Ole was qualified because he managed some btec sides. Now you want the best of the best for Director of football. Come consistent.
The mainstream media seem to have finally turned their attention onto Woodward and the Glazers after 7yrs of just blaming managers. Hopefully there’s sustained criticism of these cnuts now and it might finally do some good. It’ll never be enough to get them to sell up but constant pressure may get them to hire a proper DOF and put an actual competent transfer system in place at last.
I would love a DOF but not sure it will work while these owners and their cohorts are still around. I could actually see us having trouble keeping hold of a DOF because I doubt he will be listened to.
read what I said.
“OGS at least has managerial experience. He managed our reserves, Molde and Cardiff.Let’s not get into an argument of whether that means he’s good enough, but that’s a decade of experience.”
Rio and Neville don’t have the relevant experience.
I’m Not saying we shouldn’t change our structure, and shouldn’t be looking for the right person.
What his actual CV contains doesn't matter, he still spoke facts and they cannot be denied. It's the truth and we've known it for years.
Gary Neville or Rio Ferdinand.
feck me, i really fear for the club if these are the kind of names we are looking to/did shorlist.
feck me, i really fear for the club if these are the kind of names we are looking to/did shorlist.
I don't think I can stress enough the importance of having a DOF in the modern game. We need continuity, something Woodward can't bring to the club.
Our problems over the last 8 years are there for all to see. Instead of going for managers with the same type of philosophy we're going for managers with completely different styles who aren't suited to being United's manager even though their CVs could say otherwise. In turn they bring in their own type of players so when the next manager comes in with a different style these players more or less become obselete. At the minute we're caught in a vicious loop which we won't get out of while we have non footballing people in predominant positions.
A footballing DOF with the same ethos as the club would go a long way to rectify that and would help bring in players who if a new manager fails could be used by the next one Instead of ripping up the team every 2-3 years. Consistency is what's needed now and the only way to get that is to bring in someone like VDS. It's true he doesn't have experience as a DOF but he seems to be respected in the footballing world, I'm sure he has a massive network of players, seems like a very intelligent person and he understands what it takes to succeed at a club like United.
Our problems over the last 8 years are there for all to see. Instead of going for managers with the same type of philosophy we're going for managers with completely different styles who aren't suited to being United's manager even though their CVs could say otherwise. In turn they bring in their own type of players so when the next manager comes in with a different style these players more or less become obselete. At the minute we're caught in a vicious loop which we won't get out of while we have non footballing people in predominant positions.
A footballing DOF with the same ethos as the club would go a long way to rectify that and would help bring in players who if a new manager fails could be used by the next one Instead of ripping up the team every 2-3 years. Consistency is what's needed now and the only way to get that is to bring in someone like VDS. It's true he doesn't have experience as a DOF but he seems to be respected in the footballing world, I'm sure he has a massive network of players, seems like a very intelligent person and he understands what it takes to succeed at a club like United.
In fairness, it might be a sea-change too late, but we did go after Haaland and Bellingham. We just couldn't offer what they wanted (at this time).
To be fair, we are the perfect counter-argument for that thesis ...
I agree. Having a dof wouldn’t have made a difference with those signings. We couldn’t offer them the playing time they could get at Dortmund.
DoF is not a must nor a guarantee... but, considering our club is run poorly consistently in football making decisions at the top.. then it's useful to get one.
If people thought that success wasn't (relatively) easily achievable with United's means they probably wouldn't experience a collective meltdown right about now.
Agree, but the more attention about this issue, then maybe the more emphasis that the club will want to put in actually hiring a good DoF.
SAF were our unofficial DoF at that time. He's that good and skilled in dealing with the top hierarchy and doing all the club management, not just focusing on the squad of players which our managers since him are just doing.
The problem is not Bissaka or even Maguire, it’s the fact that Bruno and Pogba or generally the entire front 6 aren’t great at retaining possesion. If they were and teams were forced to play out or kick it out then Bissaka all of a sudden becomes very useful giving his ability to win the ball back. Maguire is decent in the air so if teams are forced to punt it he’s in a position to head the ball. I’m not a massive fan of either but I see why they were identified In a defensive manner for a high pressing team.
The problem is VDS wouldn’t be given any control over transfers. His only job would be having conversations or getting the ball rolling which comes to his position being pointless because the Glazers don’t fund us like Chelsea.
We are in a position now where they don’t take risks. If we are to believe what we read they have learnt from previous mistakes in the market and buying people like DiMaria, Falcao, Sanchez and the likes.
Are there actually that many top top European clubs with sporting directors. Most are committees are they not?
Thinking of the Bayern’s, Madrid’s, Juventus’s and that of the world?
I just think sporting director at a truly big club is different from being sporting director at Dortmund, Sevilla and Lille where you’re tasked to find a diamond in the rough. I’m sure all the big clubs know about that person but it makes no sense for them to take the risk until later in the development.
I’m not against a director of football I’d actually really like one but I don’t think the issue is the committee or Ed. It’s the Glazers and when/How funds are given to Ed or what he’s told he is allowed to do.
All this talk of bring in football people at the club is nonsense becuase you could put a whole heap of them there and they’ll still struggle due to the Glazers.
See this is the problem, because that will never happen, no sporting director is going to be given that brief. Because they will never have that power. There is nothing wrong with the recruitment department, the scouting network is probably one of the best in the world.
The issue is are the funds there or allowed to be spent in a manner that makes recruitment easy?
If Ed was given say 300mil this summer by the Glazers and told Ok that’s yours go and get what we need. Do you think he’d still be haggiling over the Sancho fee or would he have been bought months ago and probably brought in the other targets?
The problem is we are a buisness, unlike Chelsea we have a responsibility to maximise profits and do so by spending as little as possible. Football is not the priority of the club. Making money is.
Would've loved it if Rio was in charge. Regardless of whether he is qualified to do so or not. His presence would be a pull for talented footballers to join the club and he knows a thing or two about the performance levels required for United to be on top.
A Director of football would have enabled us to buy Sancho for 120m. Without him, we can’t.
We need to be more like Barcelona. Or City - we need to keep buying a new defence. Monchi can feck off.
We need to be more like Barcelona. Or City - we need to keep buying a new defence. Monchi can feck off.
We had Fergie and David Gill and didnt need one then. The power of agents has increased dramatically towards the end of fergies reign. Football has moved on. Money men i.e. Woodward and co arent football men. They don't understand the dark arts of football transfers and planning squad cycles. This has been said by numerous people in positions if authority many times. We are also extremely slow in any negotiations.
Give you an example, of where a DoF comes in handy. Its well known Mbappe wants to leave PSG next summer, when he has a year left on his contract. Hes refusing to sign an extension. DoF or equivalents for Barcelona, City, Madrid, Bayern, Liverpool will all be speaking to his agent, family and entourage throughout the course of the season to try to convince the player to come to their club. Ok, its most likely to be Madrid. But we wont even be in the picture. We dont have anyone who is a football man who can do the leg work to get a deal like that over the line or even be in the starting blocks for that race.
We are so far off the pace of football transfers in todays market that its embarrassing for a club of this size and stature.
Benfica and Porto have done it for years.
I’m also not saying they can go wild and just pick up a batch of 10 throw away 9 and say keep this one. But let’s take Haaland, 4-7 mil was it he went for from Molde. So a player all the top clubs new about, had scouted just no point in making a move but yet your other middle class teams to them that is a great signing someone who is good can come in you work with then can sell. That’s the kind of buys they look for. Daillo, Silva all players bought who were known to be talents but not ready for a big club and available for a good price.
It's just one of those obvious things, it's not a devisive issue - a DoF makes sense.
I don't think there is a world where if we had one after SAF we would be closer to the top than we currently are.
I remember scratching my head as "we" bragged about noodle deals and an apparent Official Tractor of Man Utd(!) as opposed to making strong football decisions and signings.
Currently we are a top 4 side, a DoF will help our focus in the transfer market and who knows, maybe the end of summer long fantasy chases where everyone laughs at us in the end.
I get the feeling Ole is frustrated with how the recruitment currently works and would welcome the addition.
I know most of us would.
I don't think there is a world where if we had one after SAF we would be closer to the top than we currently are.
I remember scratching my head as "we" bragged about noodle deals and an apparent Official Tractor of Man Utd(!) as opposed to making strong football decisions and signings.
Currently we are a top 4 side, a DoF will help our focus in the transfer market and who knows, maybe the end of summer long fantasy chases where everyone laughs at us in the end.
I get the feeling Ole is frustrated with how the recruitment currently works and would welcome the addition.
I know most of us would.
Ferguson was basically a de facto DoF though.
Times have changed. Grow or fail. And for 7 years we have failed and keep repeating the same mistake.
If your blind to that it's insanity.
We do have a sporting director. His name is Ed Woodward. The Glazers gave him all the power to rule over the club and that includes football related matters, because they dont care what happens on the pitch or inside the club as long as we make profit.
Im fairly sure he has a Napoleon complex, its very common among short people who suddenly get too much power in their hands and dont want to share it.
Unlike his height, his ego is sky-high, he thinks the sporting director role is no big deal and he can do it himself. And wants to do it himself, he probably see it like playing FIFA Manager.
The fact that he is surrounded by butt-buddies Judge and Arnold doesnt help either because they wont oppose him, they most likely lick his @SS and wont tell him the truth in the face that he is bad at this job.
In the end its the Glazers fault, because they gave him all the power and they dont care what happens inside Man Utd as long as their pockets are filled.
Im fairly sure he has a Napoleon complex, its very common among short people who suddenly get too much power in their hands and dont want to share it.
Unlike his height, his ego is sky-high, he thinks the sporting director role is no big deal and he can do it himself. And wants to do it himself, he probably see it like playing FIFA Manager.
The fact that he is surrounded by butt-buddies Judge and Arnold doesnt help either because they wont oppose him, they most likely lick his @SS and wont tell him the truth in the face that he is bad at this job.
In the end its the Glazers fault, because they gave him all the power and they dont care what happens inside Man Utd as long as their pockets are filled.
Gary Neville is too emotional to handle such a role. Rio is more of a modern kid on football manager or something like that. Rio would sign players based on computer games or football manager whatever it's called. Gary would sign Brexit FC.
As for Roy Keane, the guy hasn't got the skills to work with people
Edwin Van Der Sar has proven experience at Ajax, has the right temperament and he looks like a clever guy. He should be given the job straight away.
Good shout. The best thing about it would be VdS would command respect in the football world.
You can apply that logic to a club like Dortmund, who buy the big names among the young top talents.
But clubs like Sevilla or Lille are not in such a position. Haaland is listed as having cost Salzburg €8m, that would have put him around the top 10 most expensive signings in Lille's history. It's easy to call him a no-brainer in hindsight, but at the time he went to Austria, he was a kid who scored 14 goals in Norway.
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I honestly believe the Glazer's have provided enough funds for us to challenge for the league. And if those funds were given to VdS instead of Woodward, we'd have a specific type of headcoach coming in who would align with the ethos of the club as far as the type of football we would play and the profile of player we would sign. And we would have our scouts working towards identifying players who fit the remit set by VdS which is to identify talent for a particular play style. And those scouts would then report to a Sporting director who would collate all the info and set about making moves on the targets that have been identified after the CEO (VdS) set the criteria which i've explained above. In this setup the football structure is a fail safe even if the headcoach is sacked because the drivers are still gonna be there which provides continuity/stability.
Juventus, Bayern, Liverpool, PSG, City, Barca etc all have Sporting directors. And they're the clubs we want to challenge because we have the finances to challenge them. But the difference is that we've handicapped ourselves when it comes to recruiting managers, players and abandoned our footballing mantra and ceded control to managers like Moyes, Mourinho etc who were given too much control and we ended up signing players for their footballing principles rather than ones we should've set which is normal under a Sporting director model.
If after more than 7 years we still don't understand that something drastically needs to change, then we're never gonna learn and we'll carry on chasing targets for extortionately high prices and end up getting knocked out by European teams who are built on much much smaller budgets.
I don't believe either suits a team that wants to implement high pressure because Maguire is weak at defending high up the pitch in isolation and Wan Bissaka isn't good enough on the ball hence opposing teams target him for the wide pressing trap by leaving him unmarked. It was a dreadful decision to waste such a huge amount of money on both players IMO. The midfield is also a issue because we don't have a defensive minded player in there who is good enough to enforce/resist high pressure. But the midfield is made to look worse because the likes of Maguire are uncomfortable defending high up the pitch in 1v1 situations which forces the midfield to play deeper in a more conservative manner because the CBs don't have the capabilities to maintain a high line against teams who transition play quickly.
I honestly believe the Glazer's have provided enough funds for us to challenge for the league. And if those funds were given to VdS instead of Woodward, we'd have a specific type of headcoach coming in who would align with the ethos of the club as far as the type of football we would play and the profile of player we would sign. And we would have our scouts working towards identifying players who fit the remit set by VdS which is to identify talent for a particular play style. And those scouts would then report to a Sporting director who would collate all the info and set about making moves on the targets that have been identified after the CEO (VdS) set the criteria which i've explained above. In this setup the football structure is a fail safe even if the headcoach is sacked because the drivers are still gonna be there which provides continuity/stability.
Juventus, Bayern, Liverpool, PSG, City, Barca etc all have Sporting directors. And they're the clubs we want to challenge because we have the finances to challenge them. But the difference is that we've handicapped ourselves when it comes to recruiting managers, players and abandoned our footballing mantra and ceded control to managers like Moyes, Mourinho etc who were given too much control and we ended up signing players for their footballing principles rather than ones we should've set which is normal under a Sporting director model.
If after more than 7 years we still don't understand that something drastically needs to change, then we're never gonna learn and we'll carry on chasing targets for extortionately high prices and end up getting knocked out by European teams who are built on much much smaller budgets.
There is never just one way of doing things. Nothing article really.
Top 20 I just checked. And he was a player who has been linked with everywhere since he was 14yrs old. There are others out their. They picked up Renato Sanches for 18mil. He’s just had a good season. No doubt if he does it again he’ll be sold on For a big fee too a big club. A player that none of the big clubs would have signed at the moment due to the risk involved but a player lower level teams would go for.
Just think if you’re semi decent sporting directors are more valuable at a lower level of club. A sporting director is not some sort of magic bullet that is going to sort out Manchester United.
100% this.
Fans don't want to hear it, but we've spent boatloads of money over the past decade.
The problem isn't that the Glazers don't provide funds, it's that they're wasted on the wrong players.
Plain and simple.
That's where a DOF comes in - his job would be to solely focus on being a real "football maniac", talking and building relationships with scouts, agents & talents and therefore identifiying the players, that would really help us.
Woodward & Co. aren't those kind of guys. They're business men, not football guys.
pretty sure Liverpool and Bayerm are a committee. I’ve seen City and it doesn’t look like one man either, quite a few seemed in on the discussions of Van Dijk over Laporte in that all or nothing show.
Personally I just don’t see a DOF being allowed to succeed at United. I do agree money has been spent and in part due to the chop changing of managers. I mean LVG was put in place with a plan, The club bottled it under fan unrest and appointed Jose Which was a complete change of direction and now we’ve gone back to a general sort of plan for the future. I don’t think a Dof would have had the power to stop that and would have been marginalised.
I’m pretty sure that scout we got from Juventus who is now the Dof At Zenit, gave that as part of his reasoning for why he left. He felt his opinion was overlooked and inset a pointless role.
Even today there is a story about Jose not wanting to be head coach as he feels it weakens his influence in transfers.
Another thing do we think Marcel Brands at Everton brought in Allan and James or did Ancelotti have more to do with those?
I just don’t think it will happen due to how the club is run.