Zidane.
Most complete footballer ever?
- Thread starter GatoLoco
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Then that's exactly what you are saying.
Ronaldo is I think one of the most complete attacking players of all time but not a complete footballer. Same for Messi. In fact none of the greats can actually be here since most were exceptional at a few things rather than a jack of all trades.
Players to mention here would be Ruud, Koeman, etc
Most complete should be self-explanatory. The player who could do almost every skill required to be a top level footballer. Which means they could in theory alternate positions across forward/mid/def and still be world class.
Ronaldo is hardly complete. He hates the defensive side of the game. Infact as mentioned previously true great players will not be in this list since what made them great was a standout quality (or mixture of a few interconnected ones) rather than being above average in all.
John o Shea would be a great example for us United fans. Overall, others have done the same at a much higher level than John. JoS was never a first team player to belong in this debate tbh. Love him though. Wish we had someone who could pull off a cheeky chip against a team which hasn't lost a game in PL in 2 years! Or nutmeg Figo. Hah
I don't think Ronaldo is the most complete footballer ever nor the greatest.
Someone like Di Stefano has a much better argument for most complete footballer ever. As does Gullit and someone like Duncan Edwards(going by the stories).
He might be all that. But being a "GOAT" in these qualities is not the definition of complete player. They must be able to do most at an acceptable rate. Messi is arguably one of the greatest at a few standout qualities while being (obviously) not so good at defence/heading. He is not complete.
Matthaus came to mind first
Maybe Beckenbauer
Maybe Beckenbauer
What exaggeration?
You're literally saying that a player that never played as a defender could play as one easily if he wanted to. I list a bunch of players that actually played in very different, often drastically so, roles.
Gullit was a world-class forward, winger and centre-back (no, not at Chelsea) and when he played closer to central midfield he still looked great.
Beckenbauer was West Germany's main attacking outlet during the 1966 World Cup, scoring 4 goals in 6 games, when he was playing "out of position" — and that's discounting his performances as a libero where he literally roamed all over the pitch starting out as a centre back. At a level that no other footballer had been able to match — before or since.
Di Stéfano dropped to his centre backs to get the ball from them, spent half of the game in midfield, making things tick & winning the ball back when needed, only to pop up with a brace or a hat-trick to win the game (although goalscoring was easier then).
Matthäus often scored 15-20 goals per season playing in the toughest league of all-time. And he could play as this kinda goalscoring all-rounder in midfield simultaneously with man-marking peak Diego Maradona of all people. Often with great success. That was before he switched to a sweeper role, winning tons of stuff and reaching the 1999 CL, which Bayern infamously lost after he was subbed off.
What are Ronaldo's defensive weaknesses? He lacks literally every specialist defender's skill like precise tackling, defensive positioning & awareness (and no, it's not the same thing as his offensive off-the-ball movement) & general risk-inviting attitude that's part of his nature.
Take a look at Wan-Bissaka, who is a brilliant athlete, but completely lacks defensive awareness and has one positional brain-fart after another. And it's not enough! But he loves defending and is great in one-on-ones, which compensates for that a bit. Ronaldo lacks all of that. Basically his contribution from that role would still be that of an attacker, just for whatever reason being stuck at the back.
Darren Ferguson
Kimmich and Alaba are in with a good shout, both playing multiple positions (cb, wb, dm, cm, com, winger)
Zanetti is very similar to the duo above.
Rooney has played cdm, cm, com, winger, ss, cf (and lb against barcelona haha)
Iker Muniain is quite similar to Rooney.
Salihamidzic played wb, cm, winger, st - every position except cb
Zanetti is very similar to the duo above.
Rooney has played cdm, cm, com, winger, ss, cf (and lb against barcelona haha)
Iker Muniain is quite similar to Rooney.
Salihamidzic played wb, cm, winger, st - every position except cb
The guy who is the best ever at dribbling, passing and goalscoring. Nobody in the history of this sport can say that. And Messi was a beast at defending and pressing in his younger years. People only remember his recent years it seems, but when he came on the scene, he won a lot of balls with his sharpness and feistiness. He won every duel, it was one things back then that amazed me. People seem to have forgotten.
And if you are literally the best ever at all the major attributes, you are the most complete. A lack of height is not as important then imo.
And if you are literally the best ever at all the major attributes, you are the most complete. A lack of height is not as important then imo.
Winning balls up front is much different from defending at the back. Who is small simple can not defend reliably against big strikers, therefore Messi has no chance to be the most complete.
Yeah… You must have played in the good old days in order to be a complete player. The lower level in the old days allowed players to be “complete” - to rotate them in different positions.
The higher level of football today implies that players are more complete in general, but also a higher threshold for dropping players into new positions.
I’m not saying that example Ronaldo could’ve switched to play CB today, but because he is a complete player he could’ve been schooled to be a CB, CM quite easily (to handle or play in different positions).
You disagree because “if a player has to spend time to adapt or being schooled” the player isn’t complete. So we disagree because we have different approach to the term “complete player”.
I’ve said what I wanted to say and I’ve started to repeat myself. It’s time for me to move on to the next discussion
Thanks for now @harms. You have challenged my precision or encourage me to be more precise in the future.No love for sammer?
Possibly Pele, very possibly Cristiano Ronaldo
Yeah and the same can be said about big guys like Gullit, they would get turned out like crazy defending small nimble guys.
Good call. Somehow I only think of Sammer as a manager...
It's Rooney. He's actually rated more outside of Britain.
How good was DeSailly in midfield?
One could say Roy Keane. He played CB, RB, CM, RW, and as a forward for United on many occasions. May have played at LB and LW in his early days at Forest and United before I got to watch games and highlights.