While I agree with a lot of what you posted about Mourinho, I disagree that he failed. I think he was average and I think a whole lot of that had to do with multiple factors beyond him. I think more things will be revealed in the coming months that will provide us with better insights into what actually went down. The bits about him becoming toxic and throwing tantrums are absolutely spot on in my opinion.
Mourinho comments about our season to L'Equipe
- Thread starter MrPooni
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While I agree with a lot of what you posted about Mourinho, I disagree that he failed. I think he was average and I think a whole lot of that had to do with multiple factors beyond him. I think more things will be revealed in the coming months that will provide us with better insights into what actually went down. The bits about him becoming toxic and throwing tantrums are absolutely spot on in my opinion.
Could not agree more!
Considering his reputation he failed. If someone 10 years ago said you'll give Jose that amount of money and he produced what he did you would say no way.
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I think you’ll find I have always said Jose has himself to blame for his confrontational nature.
You’re right, we do need an objective way to judge the way we’ve performed since SAF, but I find the harping on about points totals et al, to be parochial.
That said, I think you make some good points here. The structural issue is the biggest problem, in my view. The gap is increased not because of the competence of our rivals, as much as it is because of the lack of an overarching vision from our club. It pains me to say this, but the truth, I believe, is that Liverpool, Man City, and even Tottenham, learnt by watching us, and realising that another SAF would never come along - so they recruited several people across their club, who each had a small part of the skills needed to make the whole far greater than the sum of its parts. We have sat on our laurels for far too long, and an FA Cup, a League Cup, and a Europa League, since SAF, is a disgrace to this club. We left our structure in the dark ages, failing to see that our elite European rivals were leaving us trailing in their wake, and our domestic rivals knew that we had failed in our succession planning. Everyone knew we were weak. It was a matter of time before it was cruelly exposed, and nothing is more tragic than the idea that Ole has swooped in, unqualified and out his depth, but beloved by all of us, to try and save the club he loves. He can’t be blamed for his willingness, but his love for the club blinds him to the fact that he isn’t experienced enough or even astute enough to do this job.
Incidentally, this will be unpopular but I happen to think Mourinho, for all his third season shocker and disgraceful behaviour, did an absolutely superb job in his second season. Finishing 2nd with this squad was actually a piece of outstanding managerial work. I dislike his public persona, but as a manager, his record withstands scrutiny against anyone.
Managers don't negotiate transfers, fees or player contracts. So blaming a manager that a player cost £X is not just wrong, but also harmful as it absolves those who are truly responsible.
It is beside the point whether Mourinho wanted those players or not. Ed and his team actually bought them — negotiated their transfers and contracts, and wired the money. They are the ones responsible for Sánchez's wages, Lukaku's & Pogba's transfer fees etc.
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By being our best player far? yes, he has
We got Lukaku in the same summer Ed vetoed signing Perisic because he thought he was overpriced and not worth.
So the only logical thinking is Ed also approved of Lukaku signing and liked its idea so splashed the cash, otherwise he would have vetoed it like he did with Perisic.
Yes Woodwars is responsible for everything as it was clear he had his say in transfers and his opinion on it was very important.
He's partly right, but he's no longer the same manager he was.
I still believe that with the team we had on paper, second wasn't a massive achievement.
I mean, we saw a much worse decline when he was at Chelsea. From winning the title, to getting sacked when they were 15th.
He can chat all the shite he wants. Fact is, the signings he made (and he was able to make quite a few) weren't good enough, which is why he ended up either selling or benching most of the players he bought. Ironically, the player he apparently labelled a 'virus' was his most consistent player.
I still believe that with the team we had on paper, second wasn't a massive achievement.
I mean, we saw a much worse decline when he was at Chelsea. From winning the title, to getting sacked when they were 15th.
He can chat all the shite he wants. Fact is, the signings he made (and he was able to make quite a few) weren't good enough, which is why he ended up either selling or benching most of the players he bought. Ironically, the player he apparently labelled a 'virus' was his most consistent player.
Not the way our club is being run. Put Pep or Klopp there and I bet you they would also struggle.
Asides that, generally speaking, I do agree with the notion that Jose's star has dimmed.
Inter put a feckin 40 million price tag on Perisic (and am biased because am Croatian, so wanted him here). He votoed what? If he had any sense he would have vetoed Lukaku because every time he recieve the ball it might end up in my living room.
Only logical thinking is that you don't know shit what happened and that this moron spend around 400 million to kick the ball any time Sevilla come close to the goal and then had the nerve to shit on our intire team.
Feck him. And every new excuse you come with. 400 million spent?
Was still a much better performance than the Juventus win under Mourinhio though IMO.
We basically parked the bus for about 80 minutes and then scored two set pieces at the end.
At least we had a go at PSG.
Anyway, who cares, Mourinhio is gone and I, for one, am so delighted that the constant jibberish he talks has no impact on my club anymore.
You're getting angry and starting throwing insults and cliches you memorized because you know your point is getting exposed so that's the only way to answer.
Inter put 40m on Perisic, well yeah so ? If Mourinho was getting everything he pushed for like Lukaku whatever the price why didn't he get Perisic and Toby ?
Answer : Woodward thought both weren't worth the money and refused to pay for both.
So if we paid 75m for Lukaku in the same summer Woodward decided Perisic wasn't worth the money and decided not to pay for him it means his opinion is very important and vital for completing the signing and that we paid that much for Lukaku because Woodward approved the idea and liked it as much as Mourinho.
If Woodward is getting praised for vetoing Perisic and Toby because they're old, average and not worth the money he should be getting blamed for splashing the cash on Lukaku.
You can throw as much insults, "400m" and all cliches you just memorize and have nothing more to say than it, that's the only logical thinking and if you don't want to believe it, it's not my problem.
Agree.
Mate, you don't have any problems with your logical thinking, believe me.You're getting angry and starting throwing insults and cliches you memorized because you know your point is getting exposed so that's the only way to answer.
Inter put 40m on Perisic, well yeah so ? If Mourinho was getting everything he pushed for like Lukaku whatever the price why didn't he get Perisic and Toby ?
Answer : Woodward thought both weren't worth the money and refused to pay for both.
So if we paid 75m for Lukaku in the same summer Woodward decided Perisic wasn't worth the money and decided not to pay for him it means his opinion is very important and vital for completing the signing and that we paid that much for Lukaku because Woodward approved the idea and liked it as much as Mourinho.
If Woodward is getting praised for vetoing Perisic and Toby because they're old, average and not worth the money he should be getting blamed for splashing the cash on Lukaku.
You can throw as much insults, "400m" and all cliches you just memorize and have nothing more to say than it, that's the only logical thinking and if you don't want to believe it, it's not my problem.
Perisic rejected ManUtd. He is a clever guy so he rejected chance to play for Jose.
After posting the interview so many times Jose fans still moan about Perisic when the player himself didn't want to play that Jose.
Jose fans still moaning about Perisic when the player himself said he rejected ManUtd offer to stay at Inter. Not every player is desparate to play for 'boring one'.
Ed vetoed Perisic
Ed vetoed Perisic
I suspect a fair few players won't be overly inspired at the thought of coming to play for OGS either (starting with Jadon Sancho), so where does that leave us?Jose fans still moaning about Perisic when the player himself said he rejected ManUtd offer to stay at Inter. Not every player is desparate to play for 'boring one'.
Ed vetoed Perisic
Of course they won't be when we don't have CL and are in mess. Back then we were in CL and player rejected the move, somehow it's used as a reason why Jose couldn't win the league or close the gap.
Yeah, and Pogba signed for Jose when we only had Europa League football, so what?
So?
Lets wait and see which players we sign and which we can't. Point wasn't even about who can attract better players, it's Perisic and he rejected the move, somehow that is used to defend Jose as he wasn't backed and how he would have closed the gap.
The point is you don't have any clue why Perisic turned down the move, but it suits your narrative to say that it was because he didn't want to play for 'the boring one'. I seem to remember United dragging their heels interminably to even match the valuation that Inter put on him - that sort of shit is not going to make a player feel valued.
Of course not wanting to play for 'boring one' is just a tongue in cheek comment. At least I'm glad he didn't move, it's a win - win for all parties.
So now we have to analyze why he rejected the move. Maybe he didn't want to move at all and was only looking for big contract which he got at Inter later. He clearly said he had ManUtd offer on the table and after talking to Spaletti he decided to stay.
Perisic has clearly said in the past that he wanted to come to United - he said he was ready to accept - but then Spaletti talked him into staying. I think the first half of his statement is definitely true (the bit about wanting to come to United) - why would he say it if it wasn't? The second bit is open to interpretation as we don't know exactly what Spaletti said to him - but it certainly doesn't seem to be cos he didn't want to play for Mourinho. And therefore Mourinho might be entitled to feel that the club could have done more to get the deal over the line. Water under the bridge now anyway.
Again, not wanting to play for Jose was just a joke. It was simple case of stay at Inter or accept ManUtd offer, he chose to stay. How can Woodward veto the deal when player hilself didn't want to move.
He said there was offer from ManUtd but he rejected it after Spalletti convinced him to stay. There is nothing ManUtd can do. Not every player is begging to join ManUtd and ManUtd don't have the ability to cherry pick every player they want to, especially from historically big clubs like Inter.
Also backed by their DoF.
Yeah, I get all of that - but what it doesn't prove is how hard we actually pushed to sign him. In fact, the words from the DoF cast doubt on how concrete the offer was from United anyway. One thing is for certain, the saga dragged on for months and months - at a relatively low price point - it certainly felt from fans perspective like Woodward's heart wasn't really in it.
This is the problem, from ManUtd rejected to sign him to, we didn't try hard enough. Like I said not every player dreams about playing for ManUtd and we can't bully other big clubs for one of their best players. This is ignoring we can't sign every player we want to and also he clearly felt we did enough to consider the offer and was close to leaving (going by his interviews).
It had nothing to do with vetoing, it's just player feeling he didn't want to move at that point, or a classic case of using ManUtd to get better contract.
DoF words are very clear, instead of dealing with ManUtd they just convinced the player to stay which just ends the transfer saga. They were successful in that.
Fans had no perspective, we had zero access to Woodward's or Mourinho's hearts. The only thing that we have is that United went for him, actually offered him a contract and he rejected it in favor of Inter.
I'm not quibbling about the 'veto' bit - I never said that anyway. All I'm saying is that from Mourinho's perspective I can see that he might have felt the club didn't try very hard to make the signing. Have you forgotten the days of practically kidnapping Berbatov by plane/helicopter to get the deal through - if you really want something you fight for it. That article you quoted includes these very words: "Ausilio has revealed he never entertained a potential bid from Jose Mourinho's side".
You have used the information available to conclude that either Persic never wanted to leave anyway (which goes against other quotes that I've read from him), or that he didn't want to play for Mourinho (which you have now backtracked from). I'm just saying it is not necessarily quite as simple as that.
Yes, that is the bald truth, but there are quite a few relevant quotes that can be interpreted to try and build up a bigger picture.
Backtracking?
I posted these quotes half a dozen times and many months ago. You are not even the first person I'm arguing against regarding Perisic. Berbatov wanted to leave Spurs, Perisic didn't want to. I said Perisic had decision to make and he chose to stay, which means he didn't want to leave. He might have said he wanted to leave (doubt that and I never read those quotes) but when it came to decision time he didn't.
It's also not as simple as ManUtd signing every player they want to either. Most important one is player and he himself didn't want to move.
There are players who said how Jose Mourinho convinced them to join the club, maybe it was Jose who failed to convince the player?
Yes and it's pretty difficult to interpret it the way you did. Just an example, Perisic says that it's Spalletti that convinced him but for some reason you don't consider that maybe it's Mourinho that didn't try hard enough to convince Perisic, your sentence about Mourinho's perspective reads like you consider that the club let Mourinho down when logically he should be the equivalent of Spalletti in that scenario and simply wasn't successful in his attempt to convince his target.
From Perisic and Willian to players from Newcastle and the Championship.Jose fans still moaning about Perisic when the player himself said he rejected ManUtd offer to stay at Inter. Not every player is desparate to play for 'boring one'.
Ed vetoed Perisic
If only we signed every player we are linked with. We are also linked with De Ligt but that won't fit your agenda.Hey, maybe I'm remembering this wrong, but my memories of that summer were that we made a low bid of around £40 million for Perisic. Inter made it public that they were looking for £50 million. We then spent the rest of the summer inching that bid up by tiny increments, or just going completely quiet on it, never quite getting to the amount that Inter had said they were looking for. It dragged on and on. None of which is going to make a player feel particularly wanted - and leaves the target particularly vulnerable to his existing manager saying how valued he is at Inter, and how much they want to keep him and build their team around him.
I mean, maybe you're right in saying that 'Mourinho should logically have been the equivalent of Spalletti', but a) Spalletti was his existing manager - there's no way that Mourinho could have been expected to have similar access to the player (and anyway, isn't that 'tapping up'?), and b) Perisic said how flattered he was that Mourinho was interested in him.
It was tongue in cheek. I wouldn't have been too pleased if we signed the former two anyway.
I for one couldn't care less which players we sign as long as they fit the team and we get better results.
Yeah, backtracking:Backtracking?
Here is the thing, your first paragraph is media talk, none of it is factual. The only factual thing is that United made an offer that was accepted, the player had a contract offer that he considered and rejected.