Mourinho or Pogba?

[Noc-Z]

I'm not very fond of either at the moment! I wanted Jose in but I wasn't aware of the Jose we were getting - I think he needed a lengthy break from football after being sacked by Chelsea. Pogba I feel lacks focus, that's maybe due to an immaturity which I think he has. Apparently he has some potential to be great but he hasn't been great for us over 2 seasons now.

If I was forced to make a call on this I would keep Jose, as I can understand some of his apparent frustrations. Pogba is a better social media star than he is a footballer at the moment.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I hope it’s the hate for Mourinho rather than the love of Pogba that’s making this poll so one sided. The demeanour and play from Pogba has been like that of a self indulgent child throughout his time here.

We went out on a limb to sign him and we’ve barely seen the best of him in 2 years. Mourinho is wearing increasingly thin on me but I’d even go as far as to side with Moyes or LVG over some plonker with daft hair who won’t give his best for the club, who just so happens to be paid an enormous amount of money and was formally the most expensive player in the world.

What does his hair have to do with anything?

I find it hilarious how people seem to genuinely think that because he likes silly hairstyles (not necessarily you) he's some sort of joker who doesn't care. Personally I'd prefer that to him getting lashed every night and in the media for very different reasons.

 

[The_Order]

Second best midfielder in the world when he can be arsed who also doesn’t want to be here.

Did it for Juve, does it for France


What's the mitigating factor?

Most world class players would struggle in Jose's turtle system.

 

[The_Order]

What are you 12 ?



This is some deluded shit. he is nowhere near the second midfielder in the premier league, let alone the world!

Whew, settle down cowboy. No need to have a heart attack.

I seem to have struck a nerve. If you disagree, say why you do. No need for insults.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Calling people stupid ?

First of all, i'm not the one saying that. he gave an interview saying that he will get out of social media for the world cup because he only wants to focus on the football. HE DID.

Second, if that was a non issue. Why do you think Sir Alex had problems with Beckham ?

Third, this next point is just gonna show you how much people bend their thinking to suit their agenda. Arsenal players have been called the selfie generation. Ozil was killed in here multiple times because of his social media activities when he wasn't producing. now, when it's one of ours, the tune is changing.

I have no position on the matter. does it influence his play or not ? i don't think it does directly. see Lingard for example. But i think that it does indirectly. when you don't perform, the media's gonna be on your back, they'll use everything to shot you down and all that pressure from the media is gonna influence your play, motivation, mood ....

Again tho people getting on Ozil, getting on Arsenal is just stupidity for something that takes a minute, 2 minutes to do in a 24 hr day. I haven’t bent my reality to suit any agenda, I think it was stupid then and is stupid now no matter what team, people getting on at them for supposedly spending more time practicing dance routines or celebrations, just stupid.
Your point about the media getting on to it is valid, but it’s only valid because fans for some reason make a big deal of it, they buy in to the idea that taking a video of themselves out with friends means they aren’t focusing. People treat them like they should be locked up and only rolled out a couple of times a week to play football or train then go back to their oxygen chamber to think about nothing but football till it’s time to go again.

Beckham wasn’t social media, it was being a celebrity going to events like the Brit awards or Elton Johns for a party.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

Did it for Juve, does it for France


What's the mitigating factor?

Most world class players would struggle in Jose's turtle system.

And he doesn’t do it for United and doesn’t want to so why keep him?

 

[Tony247]

Tell you what, on first home match of the season, huge applaud for Jose and chants for support will shut all this nonsense from players and their agents. I know its weird but sometimes you need to swallow bitter pill to cure bigger disease.

 

[Mainoldo]

None of our other players are coming out and demanding a 200K pay rise whilst flirting with another club.

We spent a club record fee on Pogba and Jose gave him the captains armband at times last year. We should expect high standard from him

Just answer the question. We have a 29yr old on 400k who’s done far less. So what’s the beef.

 

[Mainoldo]

Tell you what, on first home match of the season, huge applaud for Jose and chants for support will shut all this nonsense from players and their agents. I know its weird but sometimes you need to swallow bitter pill to cure bigger disease.

Jose is the disease! So why we applauded rubbish!! You clap at your sh&t in then toilet?

 

[Siorac]

Just do we're clear, we're talking about Pogba, recent world cup winner who bossed the final and became the first premier league player to score in a world cup final?

Emmanuel Petit was the first Premier League player to score in a World Cup final.

 

[VP89]

Did it for Juve, does it for France


What's the mitigating factor?

Most world class players would struggle in Jose's turtle system.

Did he?

 

[Random Task]

Did it for Juve, does it for France


What's the mitigating factor?

Most world class players would struggle in Jose's turtle system.

That's a ridiculous thing to say about a manager who has won multiple CL & domestic trophies across Europe, whilst managing some the games greatest players.

But don't let that stop you from rewriting history in order to further your agenda.

 

[Member 90887]

Whew, settle down cowboy. No need to have a heart attack.

I seem to have struck a nerve. If you disagree, say why you do. No need for insults.

I'm perfectly calm.

I did not insult you, the 'anyone who voted for Jose is not a united fan' bit was something you'd hear in a discussion with a child so i refered to it as such.

How do you say that you disagree to that bit ? i don't see how, your post has no sound argument to reply to.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Should be renamed Martial + Pogba v Mourinho.

At this point Mourinho is really on the ropes I feel. He's failing to improve the squad performance, he's damaging morale by falling out with several players (Mkhi,Martial,Pogba).

His own personal demeanour is very uninspiring, listening to him moan constantly and saying how the youngsters "aren't his players" must have been very disheartening.

Unless he can magically turn this around, win the home game comfortably and send us on a good run, I can't see things getting better.

If we have a poor start to the season the fans will be out for blood.

 

[Offside]

Anyone buying this Pogba stuff? Think it’s a case of the press knowing he will sell stories. He’s the embodiment of United, promising yet underperforming, frustrating, very marketable and poorly mismanaged. I haven’t seen the press obsessive in creating stories about a player in a long time.

 

[EireRed_GS]

Pogba just as much to blame for his problems, in all the time ive seen him at OT i dont think ive seen him in full sprint once. always looks too casual. But this was the perfect time for jose to nurture the form pogba had off the end of a winning WC and take it straight into the new season for united, but instead decides to make comments he did and potentially have one of our best players thinking of leaving our club to get away from him. His man management is shockingly bad at times.

My worry is the long term effect and that pogba wont be the last. The Martial thing has been rumbling for a while too. Whats the point of having all these young players with potential if the managers just going to make them miserable and want to leave? Chances are he will be gone soon too anyway. Leaving a trail of unnecessary damage.

Will people back him as much when he falls out with the likes of DeGea and then he wants out? Because it wont matter to Jose a few months done the line whens hes not even here. and we are back to square one trying to replace these players

 

[Member 90887]

I haven’t bent my reality to suit any agenda

Re this part, i'm not talking about you specifically, but the caf in general.

Again tho people getting on Ozil, getting on Arsenal is just stupidity for something that takes a minute, 2 minutes to do in a 24 hr day. I haven’t bent my reality to suit any agenda, I think it was stupid then and is stupid now no matter what team, people getting on at them for supposedly spending more time practicing dance routines or celebrations, just stupid.
Your point about the media getting on to it is valid, but it’s only valid because fans for some reason make a big deal of it, they buy in to the idea that taking a video of themselves out with friends means they aren’t focusing. People treat them like they should be locked up and only rolled out a couple of times a week to play football or train then go back to their oxygen chamber to think about nothing but football till it’s time to go again.

I agree with all of the above.

 

[VP89]

Should be renamed Martial + Pogba v Mourinho.

At this point Mourinho is really on the ropes I feel. He's failing to improve the squad performance, he's damaging morale by falling out with several players (Mkhi,Martial,Pogba).

His own personal demeanour is very uninspiring, listening to him moan constantly and saying how the youngsters "aren't his players" must have been very disheartening.

Unless he can magically turn this around, win the home game comfortably and send us on a good run, I can't see things getting better.

If we have a poor start to the season the fans will be out for blood.

Lukaku Herrera and Matic seem to very much like him and no other player has shown any sort of complaint or discomfort towards him. I would also argue Rashford looks hungry under him and has since been rewarded.

Mkhi has always been of weak mind and he has struggled under more managers than the ones he's shone under. Martial and Pogba are just 2 players, of which one was replaced by a much better player and the other has been bang average.

I don't really count this as several players having low morale.

 

[#07]

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[Adam-Utd]

Lukaku Herrera and Matic seem to very much like him and no other player has shown any sort of complaint or discomfort towards him. I would also argue Rashford looks hungry under him and has since been rewarded.

Mkhi has always been of weak mind and he has struggled under more managers than the ones he's shone under. Martial and Pogba are just 2 players, of which one was replaced by a much better player and the other has been bang average.

I don't really count this as several players having low morale.

Lukaku / Matic both like him that's fair enough, but then jose likes them. I'm sure if the manager loves you then he seems like a nice guy.

Herrera speaks positively about everybody, even LVG who practically hated him.

The fact is when was the last time we risked losing our 2 best players? I can't ever remember that.

I'm just losing patience and faith in him. I feel like it was with LVG at the end, you knew it was coming but we hung on too long.

 

[The_Order]

That's a ridiculous thing to say about a manager who has won multiple CL & domestic trophies across Europe, whilst managing some the games greatest players.

But don't let that stop you from rewriting history in order to further your agenda.

That's exactly what it is, HISTORY.

Don't let the evidence before your eyes disrupt reality.

He used to be a world class manager, but he's fallen behind his peers.

 

[El Jefe]

Pogba leaving has bigger long term consequences for us as long as Mourinho is here.

It's not just Pogba but Martial included as well. The squad know these two are amongst the most talented in the squad and if they leave us mainly due to footballing reasons what kind of message does that send to potential targets.

We all want the likes of Mbappe, Dembele and the next Messi here but even if they were available would they come here after this?

 

[Bruno Marques]

we risked losing our 2 best players?

The two best player or the two POTENCIALLY best players. there's kind of diference here. Hating Mourinho it's your problem, i dont agree but i can understand. But now, let the opinion of 2 in a squad of 24 or something dictate the way the club should be run or something like that it's plain stupid.

What if Mourinho leaves and Pogba and Martial stay and dont like the next manager? Fire the manager again and hire another one? Or should it be tested if the manager will be best pals with them, put the next manager and both of them in the park passing the ball to each other and then drink some juice while looking at the sky.

Wth. Both of those players are adults, both of them need to step up and shut up.

 

[VP89]

Lukaku / Matic both like him that's fair enough, but then jose likes them. I'm sure if the manager loves you then he seems like a nice guy.

Herrera speaks positively about everybody, even LVG who practically hated him.

The fact is when was the last time we risked losing our 2 best players? I can't ever remember that.

I'm just losing patience and faith in him. I feel like it was with LVG at the end, you knew it was coming but we hung on too long.

Our 3 best players are Sanchez Lukaku and DDG in my opinion.

We may well risk losing Pogba but in 2 years he's done nothing. It's not as comparable to Sanchez who hasn't done much in his 6 months with us but has a proven record of performing consistently in England.

Also the way Pogba has been pimping himself, I think he's gone soon regardless of which manager he works under. In any.cass though, it's certainly not several players having an issue with Mourinho. He still has his core which adore him.

I think Mourinho just likes professionals. Not sulkers or those who shy away from hard work. Pogba and Martial fit both of these two profiles for him so they get a lot of his wrath.

 

[Adam-Utd]

The two best player or the two POTENCIALLY best players. there's kind of diference here. Hating Mourinho it's your problem, i dont agree but i can understand. But now, let the opinion of 2 in a squad of 24 or something dictate the way the club should be run or something like that it's plain stupid.

What if Mourinho leaves and Pogba and Martial stay and dont like the next manager? Fire the manager again and hire another one? Or should it be tested if the manager will be best pals with them, put the next manager and both of them in the park passing the ball to each other and then drink some juice while looking at the sky.

Wth. Both of those players are adults, both of them need to step up and shut up.

If we get a manager that actually wants to play football I'm 99% certain they'd be more than happy.

Having matches where you have <30% posession and under 3 shots in 90 minutes is pathetic, no wonder top players don't want to join us.

Mourinho used to be "the special one", he's not special anymore

 

[VP89]

If we get a manager that actually wants to play football I'm 99% certain they'd be more than happy.

Having matches where you have <30% posession and under 3 shots in 90 minutes is pathetic, no wonder top players don't want to join us.

Mourinho used to be "the special one", he's not special anymore

How many matches were like this last season?

 

[RedorDead21]

If we get a manager that actually wants to play football I'm 99% certain they'd be more than happy.

Having matches where you have <30% posession and under 3 shots in 90 minutes is pathetic, no wonder top players don't want to join us.

Mourinho used to be "the special one", he's not special anymore

Loads of top players have joined Mou? Ibra loved him, Matic, Lukaku.....even Pogs left Juve.....Sanchez..... You don't like the football doesn't justify pulling out random fact-less statements! Pathetic football? Pogba is culpable for that since he's the one on the pitch deciding when he can be bothered to show up, Jose doesn't instruct him to play shite!

Jose has overseen more great football and trophies than Pogs.... putting together great teams and scoring tons of goals along the way. Never great on the eye perhaps but thats not the issue here, or is it.

 

[Adam-Utd]

How many matches were like this last season?

Quite a few, I obviously don't have them all ready to hand but we parked the bus several times.

 

[Random Task]

Don't let the evidence before your eyes disrupt reality.

This statement is a contradiction and makes no sense.

He used to be a world class manager, but he's fallen behind his peers.

The very same thing was said of Fergie during the 'barren' years - also known as the Abramovich-fueled Chelsea years. We all know how that turned out.

There are very few managers in the game today that can be spoken of in the same sentence as the great man himself, but Jose Mourinho is most certainly one of them.

Is he past it? I don't know. Only thing I do know is that I'm unwilling to write him off at this point. Great managers always find a way.

 

[RedorDead21]

Quite a few, I obviously don't have them all ready to hand but we parked the bus several times.

Yea I agree on this point but not the reason behind it. We have Mou openly criticising Pogs after the world cup saying he wants Pogs to replicate those consistently good performances for us.....so that is him identifying there is a difference in Pogs' level on occasion correct? But at the same time you are saying Mou is causing the football which is causing Pogs to want out....But Pogs is a massive part of that, when Pogs is on his game, I've never seen us on the back foot......your views on all this just don't seem logical!

 

[Revan]

That's a ridiculous thing to say about a manager who has won multiple CL & domestic trophies across Europe, whilst managing some the games greatest players.

But don't let that stop you from rewriting history in order to further your agenda.

And getting the relationship ruined with most of them. Ronaldo, Casillas, Ramos, Hazard and Modric are arguably the biggest legends of the game that Mourinho has managed in the last decade (only Zanetti, Sneijder and Terry are in competition) and the first four were against Mourinho while Modric - a player which will go down as one of the greatest midfielders of all time - was in bench and got voted the worst signing in La Liga. The Mourinho left, and he won 4 UCL being the main midfielder of his team. Ibra also loved Mourinhho...he loved his so much that he left Mourinho while on his peak.

Mourinho's greatest achievements have come a long time ago, they are as relevant as LVG having won UCL in 1995.

 

[VP89]

Quite a few, I obviously don't have them all ready to hand but we parked the bus several times.

No we didn't.

We were defensive and playing on counters for games which were tactical in nature and ones where we forgave an attacking approach to get 3 pts. Even SAF would have gone countering like Jose did, because winning was vital in those games.

These are:

Spurs FA Semi final (terrible first half great turnaround) we won with around 35% possession.

Where we beat City 3-2. Same possession as above but we won. Had luck in the first half but second half our counters were good.

Chelsea league win - 44% possession.
Chelsea FA Cup final loss - 67% possesion.

Liverpool 2-1 win - 32% possession.


In other words we approach big games often with a counter system which has always been a traditional Jose way. Some might not like it but that's why Spurs get whooped 4-1 when they play city and we come out with a win or narrow loss. We also have a very strong record against Liverpool because of it.

Average possession for the season is 53%. That is, the smaller to average sides we must dominate the ball from to take the average % up to this level. So no, Jose doesn't set up with 30% possession in "several" games. That's a glorified myth based on hysteria.

 

[The_Order]

This statement is a contradiction and makes no sense.



The very same thing was said of Fergie during the 'barren' years - also known as the Abramovich-fueled Chelsea years. We all know how that turned out.

There are very few managers in the game today that can be spoken of in the same sentence as the great man himself, but Jose Mourinho is most certainly one of them.

Is he past it? I don't know. Only thing I do know is that I'm unwilling to write him off at this point. Great managers always find a way.

Meant to read as "your reality where Mourinho is still a top class coach" - but nvm.

Mourinho has been successful in the past, but he hasn't had the longevity to warrant his inclusion with the likes of SAF.

SAF had to change with the times and showed no signs of stubbornness in doing so . He was able to change because he was willing to.

But the most important factor in the difference between the two men is that SAF was always able to create a culture of performance. That's how you win a Premier league title by 8 points with a midfield of Anderson and Cleverly. He could make a team into a greater sum of its parts.

Mourinho cant get Martial, Pogba, Matic, Sanchez and and Lukaku to string 3 passes together let alone play any form of attacking football.

I wanted him to do well, to build something Special. But as time went on I lost faith. When your best and most creative players start wanting out... The writing is on the wall.

 

[Random Task]

And getting the relationship ruined with most of them. Ronaldo, Casillas, Ramos, Hazard and Modric are arguably the biggest legends of the game that Mourinho has managed in the last decade (only Zanetti, Sneijder and Terry are in competition) and the first four were against Mourinho while Modric - a player which will go down as one of the greatest midfielders of all time - was in bench and got voted the worst signing in La Liga. The Mourinho left, and he won 4 UCL being the main midfielder of his team. Ibra also loved Mourinhho...he loved his so much that he left Mourinho while on his peak.

Mourinho's greatest achievements have come a long time ago, they are as relevant as LVG having won UCL in 1995.

Assuming the manager can get his players to perform at their best and ultimately bring in the trophies, which is precisely what happened at every club he has managed, his relationship with the players is absolutely irrelevant. In any case, for all your Ronaldo's (who he has recently reconciled with by all accounts), Casillas, Ramos etc, who allegedly took issue with the way Jose run the club, there are those players who share a very different view of the events surrounding his management. The likes of Drogba, Eto'o, Carvalho , Matic, Willian, Terry, Essien etc often sing his praises.

The manager doesn't have to be a nice guy or get along with every player at the club in order to achieve his ultimate goal - which is winning football matches - quite the opposite in fact if history is anything to go by. Fergie himself was famous for his volatile nature. His temper led to major fallouts with numerous top-level players such as Becks, Stam, RVN among others, which resulted in their eventual sales. Yet there are still a great many who worship the guy - myself included.

 

[Revan]

Assuming the manager can get them to perform at their best and ultimately bring in the trophies, which is precisely what happened at every club he has managed, his relationship with the players is absolutely irrelevant. In any case, for all your Ronaldo's (who he has recently reconciled with by all accounts), Casillas, Ramos etc, who allegedly took issue with the way Jose run the club, there are those players who share a very different view of the events surrounding his management. The likes of Drogba, Eto'o, Carvalho , Matic, Willian, Terry, Essien etc often sing his praises.

The manager doesn't have to be a nice guy or get along with every player at the club in order to achieve his ultimate goal - which is winning football matches - quite the opposite in fact if history is anything to go by. Fergie himself was famous for his volatile nature. His temper led to major fallouts with numerous top-level players such as Becks, Stam, RVN among others, which resulted in their eventual sales, yet there are a great many who worship the guy - myself included.

Why are you mentioning just decent players like Matic or Willian? The point was that Mourinho clashes with superstars. He has done it in every team he has been bar Inter (and I guess Porto). It was going to happen inevitably here, but my hope was that it was going to happen after win a big trophy or 2.

Also, the players that you mentioned he had good time with, most of them were good a decade ago. When Mourinho was one of the greatest managers in the world. Which quite clearly, he isn't anymore.

 

[#07]

The second Man Utd decides prioritising players over managers then we may as well remove the Fergie statue from outside Old Trafford. That would be taking a blow torch to his legacy.

Once you surrender control of your coach's future to the players they know all they need to do is down tools to get rid of the guy. How much authority does the manager have in that situation? Look at Chelsea. New coach every two years when the dressing room decides it'd like a change. In that situation what is the consequence of playing badly? What is the consequence of ignoring tactical instructions that lead to opposition goals? There isn't one. You and your mates just sack off the season and the club fires the manager.

I back Mourinho over any player, even De Gea, because if we become a club where a star player can send a text message to the CEO and get the boss gone we're done.

 

[Random Task]

Why are you mentioning just decent players like Matic or Willian? The point was that Mourinho clashes with superstars. He has done it in every team he has been bar Inter (and I guess Porto). It was going to happen inevitably here, but my hope was that it was going to happen after win a big trophy or 2.

Also, the players that you mentioned he had good time with, most of them were good a decade ago. When Mourinho was one of the greatest managers in the world. Which quite clearly, he isn't anymore.

In your opinion, which is not to be taken as fact.

Truth is, none of us has any notion of how this season will pan out. A ball hasn't even been kicked yet and people are still prepared to write Jose and United off.

Are you absolutely certain, beyond a shadow of doubt, that Jose is finished as a football manager?

 

[christinaa]

Mourinho for me, but he has to have better relationships with his players or he's out too!

 

[Andycoleno9]

Wait, 80% of fans pick side of a player who pick matches, often played like he didn't even care and who wants to go from this club 2 days before market is closed.
No wonder why players have so much influence these days.

 

[WeedmineR]

@The_Order
I do respect your opinion and it does make sense to me, but I am still absolutely against Pogba here.
We can write all day on Pogba and Mourinho, and what they achieved and we'll both make strong points.
Just wait and see when we start dominating with our football this season. We are already starting this Friday and showing what we are all about!