Mourinho versus Pogba/Martial - who would you rather keep?

[Raees]

Whilst the media do love to overplay possible tensions between the manager and these two players, I think it would also be naive to state that the relationship between them three has been smooth sailing from day one and especially now.

IF it did come to fruition that Pogba's relationship with Mourinho had become irreconcilable and he didn't want to play under Jose anymore and likewise, it so happened that Mourinho had further marginalised Martial and effectively put him up for sale this summer...

Who would you back? and who do you think the club should back?

Easy answer tends to be for United fans, to always say manager as that is the way we have been brought up due to the Fergie era, but is losing two very talented players (probably our only truly gifted players outside of Sanchez) who are aged 24 and 22 with an entire career ahead of them, sensible long term planning? especially for a manager who even if he was to be successful, rarely stays anywhere long term. Or, should we ensure that the manager gets to have total freedom in being able build a squad of players who he thinks will carry out his instructions better.

Your thoughts..

 

[LeftyBlaster]

Pog and Martial easy. Give them to Pep / Klopp / Poch and they would be playing a hell lot better.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Oh stop it!

 

[DWelbz19]

The players.

 

[Amir]

If I thought Mourinho was taking us on the right path, I'd back the manager. But I don't think it's working and he'll not be around for much longer - maybe a third year, at most. Losing two of our best talents would be a disaster. Losing a manager who isn't doing a good enough job, would not.

 

[Raees]

Oh stop it!

Everyone has sort of been talking about it on other threads, skirting around the issue. Lets actually talk about it.

It has happened at other clubs he has managed, and the clubs were forced to make a call.. so we can't pretend and act like it might not happen in this situation. In an ideal world, everyone will get over any rifts etc (if there are any) and pull together.

 

[harms]

and likewise, Mourinho had further marginalised Martial and effectively put him up for sale this summer...

What? When? I might have missed something

 

[cyberman]

Its only happened to him at player power clubs.
I pick the manager. Underperforming players should never be so stoppy when asked to push themselves.
But in reality I'd wager this battle is bullshit

 

[acnumber9]

Anybody who says the players deserves to watch us continue to struggle. What happens if Pogba and Martial decide they don’t like the next guy either? What if the new manager doesn’t play Martial in his first game? Instant dismissal?

 

[SirAF]

What? When? I might have missed something

The state of it

 

[SwSw]

Whilst the media do love to overplay possible tensions between the manager and these two players

Then, why are you feeding into the media's obsession?

 

[Schmiznurf]

If Mourinho's tactics were spot on it'd be him, but his tactics are so pathetic that i'd pick the players for not being utilised properly.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Pogba and Martial would look fantastic at Liverpool, City, or Spurs. We'd be desperately wishing they were ours. Mourinho, like van Gaal before him, is making our creative and exciting players look like shite. He's misusing them and stifling their talent. I don't want to see us do what CHelsea did with Salah and De Bryune, so as far as I'm concerned Mourinho should be the one to feck off.

 

[Gomes]

Everyone has sort of been talking about it on other threads, skirting around the issue. Lets actually talk about it.

It has happened at other clubs he has managed, and the clubs were forced to make a call.. so we can't pretend and act like it might not happen in this situation. In an ideal world, everyone will get over any rifts etc (if there are any) and pull together.

How about stop it then, not make another thread for it? It's all based on nonsense articles that try to get clicks out of United's results. Though I'm not surprised at all about the people that are lapping it up.

 

[Hercules]

Enough caf for today. I have nothing to add here just except that thread like these are crap. I'd rather keep both and win 7 trophies every season.

 

[gajender]

Despite being spoiled by our success under one of the greatest manager of all time I for one believe Great players under competent manager would be more successful than good players under great manager in the long run so if I have to choose I would side with the players If they are truly great but the scenario you have mentioned is not that clear cut because Pogba and Martial are all about potential but than again Mourinho might be past his expiry date as a Elite manager.

 

[Cloud7]

Pogba and Martial. Say what you want about player power etc, but these are two of the most talented young players in the world. I would back them together with our other players(who I strongly believe are much better than current form shows) over a manager who, while he has an extremely glorious history, looks like he may not be getting the best out of them going forward.

 

[cyberman]

@AndyJ1985
No they wouldn't. The problem with these players is the lack of work off the ball. They would stand out like a sore thumb.
We can't even say those managers would tweek their mindeset since thats the entire premise of this thread. They simply don't want to.
They would wince at the off the ball work KDB and Sterling do every other game.

 

[Raees]

What? When? I might have missed something

IF... it was hypthetical - clearly obvious from the OP.

If it did come to fruition that Pogba's relationship with Mourinho had become irreconcilable and he didn't want to play under Jose anymore and likewise, Mourinho had further marginalised Martial and effectively put him up for sale this summer...

 

[MDFC Manager]

The players of course.

Mourinho knows that as well, which probably field his insecurity in the first place.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

The fecking state of this forum.

 

[Freak]

FFS.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Who do you fancy more, me or him?

feck off.

 

[United never give up]

Anyone who says they'd pick Mourinho should follow him out the door.

Fans like that lack the mentality, in life in general, to be decisive, ruthless and successful

The moaning one needs to go, and I believe he will be - its a lot simpler than all this 4231/433 nonsense: Jose Mourinho is out of his depth, the club is too big for him, and he has fallen behind modern football.

 

[United never give up]

As a fanbase, we're too soft.

Madrid fans wave their white flags once they see that a manager isn't going to turn things around, they're ruthless: thats why they've won 3 CL in 4 years whilst we've won 3 in our history

For all the talk of the Madrid Manager "circus"; the revolving manager door works for them.

If you're CEO of a top company and you're not doing the job, you're sacked. Same applies in football.

 

[AlwaysRed66]

Pogba and Martial would look fantastic at Liverpool, City, or Spurs. We'd be desperately wishing they were ours. Mourinho, like van Gaal before him, is making our creative and exciting players look like shite. He's misusing them and stifling their talent. I don't want to see us do what CHelsea did with Salah and De Bryune, so as far as I'm concerned Mourinho should be the one to feck off.

Why do people keep saying this? Martial maybe, but Pogba. Klopp/Guardiola/Poch all play a high intensity game, with the whole side, whoever they are putting in a shift throughout the pitch. There is no way they would indulge someone like Pogba, to trot around how he feels like. None of them would put up with it.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Anyone who says they'd pick Mourinho should follow him out the door.

Fans like that lack the mentality, in life in general, to be decisive, ruthless and successful

The moaning one needs to go, and I believe he will be - its a lot simpler than all this 4231/433 nonsense: Jose Mourinho is out of his depth, the club is too big for him, and he has fallen behind modern football.

And Pogba and Martial definitely aren’t?

I’d have some sympathy for people saying the players are not being used correctly, if they had both been turned into defensive work-horses who were being stifled creatively.

The fact is they aren’t. These two players are examples of not doing anywhere near enough work for this club. They should be busting a gut weak in weak out. Does anyone genuinely think Guardiola, Pochettino or Klopp would tolerate them?

 

[Canagel]

Mourinho has never lasted longer than 3 years at a club. Pogba and Martial are the future and can be integral parts of the club for the next 10 years. It's a no brainer. They are more valuable assets to the club than Jose Mourinho.

 

[Donnie Brasco]

Mourinho and Pogba should stay, they are both just as important for our immediate future. Martial if he left tommorow I could care less, overhyped and overrated by our fanbase. Will never be a ballon d'or winner, and if the Martial FC brigade went with him it would be even better.

 

[United never give up]

And Pogba and Martial definitely aren’t?

I’d have some sympathy for people saying the players are not being used correctly, if they had both been turned into defensive work-horses who were being stifled creatively.

The fact is they aren’t. These two players are examples of not doing anywhere near enough work for this club. They should be busting a gut weak in weak out. Does anyone genuinely think Guardiola, Pochettino or Klopp would tolerate them?

But Pogba and Martial have definite room for improvement, Mourinho has been on a steady, terminal decline since he left Madrid

I agree that Pogba/Martial need to do more, but the above statement is the cold, hard truth.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

As a fanbase, we're too soft.

Madrid fans wave their white flags once they see that a manager isn't going to turn things around, they're ruthless: thats why they've won 3 CL in 4 years whilst we've won 3 in our history

For all the talk of the Madrid Manager "circus"; the revolving manager door works for them.

If you're CEO of a top company and you're not doing the job, you're sacked. Same applies in football.

Is that not normally directed at the players?

Ronald got booed when he was Balon D’or winner. Do you think they’d tolerate Martial or Pogba ambling around like petulant teenagers?

 

[Canagel]

Why do people keep saying this? Martial maybe, but Pogba. Klopp/Guardiola/Poch all play a high intensity game, with the whole side, whoever they are putting in a shift throughout the pitch. There is no way they would indulge someone like Pogba, to trot around how he feels like. None of them would put up with it.

Of course he would look better. Any attacking minded player is better away from Mourinho. You can't deny that. All of those teams have better attacking structures with players in Liverpool and Spurs' case that aren't as good individually as Pogba. Even at City he would look just as good as KDB is right now if not better.

 

[TsuWave]

Mourinho could go tomorrow and I wouldn’t bat an eyelid

Mourinho and Pogba should stay, they are both just as important for our immediate future. Martial if he left tommorow I could care less, overhyped and overrated by our fanbase. Will never be a ballon d'or winner, and if the Martial FC brigade went with him it would be even better.

Hardly anyone in this team will ever be a ballon d’or winner. In fact we only ever had one at this club iirc. So that’s not the best measurement for which players to keep and saying you’d want other fans to go as well all cause they like one player you don’t is weird

 

[Revaulx]

I'm not 100% convinced by Mourinho, or at least the current iteration of him.

But then I've never been 100% convinced by either Pogba or Martial either, despite their obvious talents.

So I'm not sure of the answer, but while we're hanging onto second and still in two major cup competitions, I'm backing the manager.

 

[Santoryo]

For what is worth I don't believe the relationship in the dressing room has quite deteriorate, at least not yet but at the same time I'm not naive enough to believe that everything is rosy with the likes of Pogba and go.

So if it ever hypothetically(for now) came to such a point as pointed by the OP then the obvious thing to do would be getting rid of Mourinho. It's sound more rational and wouldn't set us back that much.

Replacing Mourinho whom some might already argue that is reaching a point where he SHOULD actually be replaced, is easier and cheaper than replacing or finding players of Pogba/Martial caliber or potential.

Also the next manager might actually also start playing Shaw over Young which is a plus in my books.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

But Pogba and Martial have definite room for improvement, Mourinho has been on a steady, terminal decline since he left Madrid

I agree that Pogba/Martial need to do more, but the above statement is the cold, hard truth.

Mourinho is trying to bring about that improvement, but the players aren’t developing quickly enough. This is impacting on performances and results which is then being used to damn the manager.

 

[AlwaysRed66]

Of course he would look better. Any attacking minded player is better away from Mourinho. You can't deny that. All of those teams have better attacking structures with players in Liverpool and Spurs' case that aren't as good individually as Pogba. Even at City he would look just as good as KDB is right now if not better.

Are you seriously suggesting he will roll up his sleeves & put as much effort in as KDB. Nothing I have seen of him suggests that. Because if he didn't, Guardiola would give him a kick up the backside & drop him.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Of course he would look better. Any attacking minded player is better away from Mourinho. You can't deny that. All of those teams have better attacking structures with players in Liverpool and Spurs' case that aren't as good individually as Pogba. Even at City he would look just as good as KDB is right now if not better.

Only if they contributed, which is highly doubtful. As previously pointed out, those teams rely on intensity from each individual. This is one of the problems with our players, even in a Mourinho system they aren’t working hard enough.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

This is taking it too far, but I'll just play along.

Jose Mourinho, no player bigger than the club, as does no manager bigger than the club. In this case, Mourinho is doing good job with us, not perfect but still he's doing it right, no alternative options anyway. He does respect the club and the United way and tried to emulate it which is against his normal approach in football management, unlike the previous two managers, and could actually take the big responsibility of being a manager of this club, need to have insanely strong mentality being manager of this club since many of the supporters are not supporting. Manager decide, players perform. If any players cannot hack it, then they're free to leave. That aside, Martial and Pogba will prove their doubters wrong under the leadership of Mourinho. Reminded me of SAF vs whoever our lovely players are. Sacking him will restart the process of building a team, irrelevant whether it's a winning team or not.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Sack Mourinho, sell Pogba, release Martial.