Moyes So Far!

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#07

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those who think that Moyes will just buy us out of trouble are in for a fair shock...
Its like the brigade that said all we needed was RVP and Rooney playing together and we'd magically win. Its sad that the level of self-deception has gotten so high. Desperation can really do strange things to be people.

F365 have given him the roughest time from anywhere I've ever seen on the net. Even when we've played well (Swansea in the league at home) they've said we've struggled to a in.
Guess that provides a balance to the mainstream media who, even now, won't criticise Moyes' approach despite it obviously not working and both our former first team coach and assistant manager saying so on Sky yesterday evening...

That's blinkered thinking when we have three of the most imaginative players in Mata, Rooney and Van Persie.
This.
 

finneh

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It's certainly odd. Although it's also odd for a new manager to take over a team that just won the league by 11 points. As such, you can see the logic in sticking to the team selection and tactics that won us the league last season. The deeper the hole Moyes finds himself in, the more resolutely he is trying to get the team playing like they did under Fergie. Almost to the point of madness.

The whole season has been a perfect storm. The really difficult opening fixtures to shatter the confidence of players and managers alike. The badly timed injuries and loss of form from our best players of last season. The summer transfer window disasters under a newbie CEO. The almost constant unavailability of the only new player we DID sign etc. etc. etc.

Moyes hasn't helped himself with the lack of imagination he's shown in coping with all the shit thrown his way but literally everything that's out of his control that could go wrong has gone wrong and it's clearly messing with the manager's head.
Some of these were initially true and were arguably excuses for Moyes in the first few months.

However I don't think confidence is a real issue. You look at our best win of the season (5-0 in the CL). The player's would have been brimming with confidence going into the next few fixtures; we then took 1 point from 3 games. We went through a period in December of 5 straight wins (admittedly against cannon fodder), where we should have gained confidence; but these were followed by capitulating against Spurs, Swansea and Sunderland. Whether we've gone into games on the back of a big win, a series of small wins, draws or losses we've been equally likely to perform like a midtable team.

Likewise we've been equally useless irrespective of injuries or the team Moyes has picked. Likewise after the Summer debacle we had a great January with the Mata signing; results are still horrendous. It's like United have been a Scientific project this year where every variable (apart from obviously the manager) has been changed and results are still shit. It has gotten to the point where there are only two possible answers: we have a very poor squad and finishing 5th - 8th is par for the course; or we have a very poor manager who isn't capable of better than this. Unfortunately we know it can't be the former.

I said before Xmas that Moyes should get the season to finish in the top 4, unless it was almost certain that he couldn't with around 10 games to go. It has reached that point now in my opinion, or certainly will have after Wednesday. Give a new manager 12-13 winnable games to get us back into the top four.
 

FlawlessThaw

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I was referring to the others in the team, really.

What like Kagawa, Januzaj (who all he seemed to do yesterday was cross the ball in as well). Heck even Valencia, Ashley Young and Rafael are more creative than majority of players in the league. The issue on crossing is clearly tactical and you have to be blinkered by what a nice man Mr Moyes is to not think that.
 

SteveJ

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Just look at Young - normally a decent crosser - yesterday: he rarely even looked up when crossing; hit n' hope.
 

Getsme

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The only two players that didn't cross the ball yesterday was Vidic and DeGea.
That's tells me Vidic isn't committed enough and De Gea is afraid to come off his line.
 

FlawlessThaw

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Just look at Young - normally a decent crosser - yesterday: he rarely even looked up when crossing; hit n' hope.
I think Young like a number of players at United is going through a massive crisis in confidence.
 

Adebesi

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It has gotten to the point where there are only two possible answers: we have a very poor squad and finishing 5th - 8th is par for the course; or we have a very poor manager who isn't capable of better than this. Unfortunately we know it can't be the former.
Ive been tempted to say similar a few times to make the argument that either way, SAF looks culpable, either for the squad he left behind or the choice he made for his replacement. Ergo, maybe he wouldnt be too stubborn about sticking with Moyes if it called into question the quality of the squad he left, something else he must have a stubborn loyalty to.

But in fact when I think about it I conclude there is a third explanation which is that SAF was simply irreplaceable, his departure dealt a psychological blow from which we havent yet recovered. OK it is getting a little tired as an excuse now, nobody expected the effect to be this dramatic or last this long but, coupled with the bad luck factors mentioned by Pogue (injuries is my least favourite of these because I think our squad players should have performed better but certainly it has played a part; and Gill leaving at the same time was an unmitigated disaster) it explains how things started to go wrong. Every time we looked like we might build some momentum we fluffed it. Sitting here thinking about it I feel like the Spurs game was the most important moment of the season in a way. I dont think "confidence" explains why we lost that game but from that moment on we have looked devoid of any belief at all. It is all speculation but I feel like if we had won that game things might have started to improve for us.
 

LR7

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Some of these were initially true and were arguably excuses for Moyes in the first few months.

However I don't think confidence is a real issue. You look at our best win of the season (5-0 in the CL). The player's would have been brimming with confidence going into the next few fixtures; we then took 1 point from 3 games. We went through a period in December of 5 straight wins (admittedly against cannon fodder), where we should have gained confidence; but these were followed by capitulating against Spurs, Swansea and Sunderland. Whether we've gone into games on the back of a big win, a series of small wins, draws or losses we've been equally likely to perform like a midtable team.

Likewise we've been equally useless irrespective of injuries or the team Moyes has picked. Likewise after the Summer debacle we had a great January with the Mata signing; results are still horrendous. It's like United have been a Scientific project this year where every variable (apart from obviously the manager) has been changed and results are still shit. It has gotten to the point where there are only two possible answers: we have a very poor squad and finishing 5th - 8th is par for the course; or we have a very poor manager who isn't capable of better than this. Unfortunately we know it can't be the former.

I said before Xmas that Moyes should get the season to finish in the top 4, unless it was almost certain that he couldn't with around 10 games to go. It has reached that point now in my opinion, or certainly will have after Wednesday. Give a new manager 12-13 winnable games to get us back into the top four.
Good post but I think top 4 is too much of an ask for anyone now.
 

Anderson18

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So let's look at his achievements so far.

- Performance in all competitions.
Nobody could've thought that it would be THIS bad. In the premier league we are 9 points behind Liverpool in mid February and won't have a CL qualification next year. We have 20 points less than last season in the league and honestly it could've been even worse. We won some games simply through the sheer class of some players in this squad. The last good performance in the EPL was against Arsenal in mid November. You all know the records he broke in the EPL so far and of course his record against the top sides in the EPL. I mean that this squad isn't the best we ever had is quite clear, but what he simply has to get more out of this players. I mean even our B-side should be good enough to beat most of the teams in the EPL and yesterday we failed to beat Fulham at home with RvP, Rooney and Mata.

1
(1) Arsenal 11 8 1 2 22 10 12 25
2
(2) Liverpool 11 7 2 2 21 10 11 23
3
(3) Southampton 11 6 4 1 15 5 10 22
4
(4) Chelsea 11 6 3 2 18 10 8 21
5
(8) Manchester United 11 6 2 3 18 13 5 20
6
(5) Everton 11 5 5 1 14 10 4 20
7
(6) Tottenham Hotspur 11 6 2 3 9 6 3 20
8
(7) Manchester City 11 6 1 4 28 12 16 19

This is how the league looked after the Arsenal game, 3 months ago. In these months, were we a saw transition from SAF to Moyes team we lost 7 points to Liverpool, 15 to Chelsea, 15 to Man Shitty and 10 points to Arsenal. The worst part about it that it wasn't even our tough fixture that made it this way. We still got Arsenal away, Liverpool away, Everton away, and City at home in the last 13 games. Not anywhere near good enough. It's a clear regression from our sub par beginning to an appaling run in the EPL.

In the Mickey Mouse cup we lost deservedly over 2 legs. It was the only chance for us to win something this season and again our performance were subpar. Not only the worst penalty shoot out in the history of the game, but also we couldn't really beat them at home. That late goal was the exact opposite of how we used to finish opponents. Maybe with a bit of luck but luck got nothing to do with it when it happens as often as it did this season already. In the FA cup we lost to Swansea at home. Finally when we would've gotten a non EPL side in the next game, we lose to a struggling Swansea side, not the tough one that won the Mickey Mouse last season. Finally the holy grail, the CL. Thank you Leverkusen for playing so bad against us. I really have no idea how we battered them but we did 2x times. Apart from the Leverkusen games, it was the same we saw in the League. Lack of creativity, not really decisive and conceding stupid goals. We won the group deservedly but I wouldn't fancy us getting out of the Arsenal group. But atleast we got out of the group stage.

- Tactics.

Cross. Only one word that describes our tactics, cross the ball. No matter how uneffective it gets, or what players you have, just cross it. We always been a team that's reliant on great wingers, but we haven't ever played like this. We were a great counter attacking team with a lot of movement and variation in our attacking play... atleast in our best years under SAF. Make no mistake, we've been dire to watch for years now. We managed to get the best out of the individual class of some players and managed to crush lower teams, alot like Arsenal this season, but in big games our limitations could be seen quite often. We had some brilliant big games, but it's been a while since we really battered a very good side. But this only crossing is simply the maddest stuff I've ever seen. You have a team with Mata, Rooney, RvP and you decide to cross the ball all the time? That's 3 world class players right there and you decide to just cross the ball? Great managers, can cope with different situations, with different players and make the best out of the player he got. Mourinho dropped his best player, Mata, because he simply didn't fit in his style and thought Oscar would be better for it. Look at them. They don't have the best team they've ever got and lacked a CM, before Matic, and a striker to be really a great side, but Mourinho got the tactics and management to get the best out of what he's got at Chelsea now. So if anyone can see that the crossing doesn't work, how can't Moyes get us to play a plan B? We've been in mess for more than a month and we still got no improvement on our tactics. Moyes teams never were known for their brilliant football. They were known for being a tough, defensive side that's hard to beat and nothing of that applies to us right now.

-Transfers.

The next big issue with David Moyes are his transfers. I give him a free pass for his mind blowing bad summer, as it was a new situation and he wanted to get to know the whole squad and give them a chance. That Fellaini has so many injury problems isn't his fault, but that we spend more than 4m than his release clause and that he got month less time to settle in is Moyes. Dithering Dave at his best.
I mean in a summer were Thiago, Strootman, Moutinho, Matic, Paulinho, Fernandinho available to only come up with Fellaini is quite bad, but bidding 40m€ for Khedira on the last day is really pathetic. But like I said he gets a free pass. In January he bought himself some time with the Mata transfer. A coup from Woodward to be honest, as he played the whole saga perfectly and deserves credit for it. I'm sorry I don't give much credit for it to Moyes. A player his class being available and wanting to play for us is a given. I mean it doesn't seem like he got a perfect plan for Mata that could've transformed this side, just a very good player that was available and we wanted to have. But what really annoys me is his "scouting". He was known for being a great manager on a tight budget, and if you look at his Everton side, that's right. Coleman, Jagielka, Mirallas, Fellaini, Distin, Baines, Cahill, Pienaar ... all great pieces of business and the kind of business I hoped he'd continue at United. Wrong again. We are now only targeting the worlds best players. We've never EVER been known for that. On the contrary, we were always the club that developed good players into world class stars. Moyes already bought as much world class players as SAF (Mata; Veron) So one of the few positives about his appointment seems to be in vain.

-Youth.

Adnan Januzaj. You can hate him as much as you like, he'll always be atleast the guy that introduced us to Adnan Januzaj. Getting him the play time and the 5 year contract is probably the only great positive I can come up with this season. That boy is our future and I look forward to see him progress. Other than Januzaj, meh again. Zaha didn't get a sniff, although Young and Valencia have been really bad. He is now loaned to Cardiff and I hope Ole can develop him. I would've liked to see Lingaard too, but given Moyes position I understand that he hasn't got the right setup for testing him. Zaha showed atleast how good he is in the Championship and on our pre season tour. His first minutes in the EPL looked good too, certainly better than most what Valencia did. But Moyes secured Januzaj, that's a huge plus.

What can I say about Moyes so far. It's been like a nightmare that only continues to get worse. I don't want to make the Liverpool mistake and give the wrong manager (KKK) all this money on players that will probably be longer here than him. He said himself that top4 was the least we had to fight for and he blew it. It's time to make a decision and the Arsenal game could be decisive for him.
 

.Phil1968

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When we went in at half time having already tried 40 odd crosses with no success surely we should have spoken about different approaches.I must admit a month - 6 weeks ago I was still of the opinion that injuries were the main problem and with the big 2 back up front we would be ok.However, after seeing that dirge yesterday with our first choice attacking options on the pitch, with the possible exception of Januzaj for Young,I am now of the opinion that our manager hasn't a clue.We are now making poor teams look good and our own players have gone from Champions to also rans.This is actually worse than the late 80s, then we knew the team , with Robbo apart, wasn't really that good but now we know this team is far better than what we are seeing.
I bet we're practising crossing in training today
 

finneh

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Good post but I think top 4 is too much of an ask for anyone now.
Oh I agree, but all I know currently is that we aren't going to get 33+ points from our remaining 13 games, which is what we will almost certainly need to qualify for fourth. Plus we are almost certainly going to go crashing out of the CL at the first sign of difficulty.

A new manager and a new found belief and who knows. We saw what happened with RDM, who knows?
Ive been tempted to say similar a few times to make the argument that either way, SAF looks culpable, either for the squad he left behind or the choice he made for his replacement. Ergo, maybe he wouldnt be too stubborn about sticking with Moyes if it called into question the quality of the squad he left, something else he must have a stubborn loyalty to.

But in fact when I think about it I conclude there is a third explanation which is that SAF was simply irreplaceable, his departure dealt a psychological blow from which we havent yet recovered. OK it is getting a little tired as an excuse now, nobody expected the effect to be this dramatic or last this long but, coupled with the bad luck factors mentioned by Pogue (injuries is my least favourite of these because I think our squad players should have performed better but certainly it has played a part; and Gill leaving at the same time was an unmitigated disaster) it explains how things started to go wrong. Every time we looked like we might build some momentum we fluffed it. Sitting here thinking about it I feel like the Spurs game was the most important moment of the season in a way. I dont think "confidence" explains why we lost that game but from that moment on we have looked devoid of any belief at all. It is all speculation but I feel like if we had won that game things might have started to improve for us.
To be honest I really thought we'd have needed a huge ego coming in to deal with the situation at the club. Someone who could deal with the player's feeling lost without Fergie and someone who would instill confidence in everyone. Our new managers pedigree should have instantly earned him respect (like Fergie when he arrived).

I also thought the Rooney situation had been tee'd up perfectly for him. All he needed to do was to be ruthless to earn everyone's respect at the club and show who was the number 1. Day one in training say to the squad anyone who doesn't want to play for this great club step forward. When Rooney did he should have been out of the club the following day.

Most people will disagree but having someone who doesn't want to be at your company has a massive impact on morale. Even more-so if others believe that said person is getting special treatment in spite of their actions. People will disagree because of Rooney's good early season form, but I think this was the very first thing where Moyes undermined his own rule: by making Rooney bigger than himself.

I have to say if I were a player listening to my manager evade questions about whether a player wants to stay with "well he's training really well", I'd be thinking "am I playing for Newcastle or Manchester United?"
 
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Sassy Colin

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Tricky to answer, especially when most of my faith in him has depleted after yesterday, but I'm still routing for him.

I don't think I can answer that question without people thinking I'm a moron, although I'm sure some people might think that considering I'm still behind Moyes :lol: This was always going to be a difficult season - anyone who actually thought we'd challenge for the title needed their heads checked back in August. Admittedly, I didn't expect us to do this poorly - I anticipated a tighter challenge for fourth/third place. Then again, I didn't really expect Arsenal or Liverpool or Tottenham to secure the results they've had this season.

I don't understand Moyes' current tactics, and his media-work definitely need a "confidence" injection - but I think he'll turn it around for us. It may be too late in the season for it to challenge for the top 4, but with all this pressure off us now to make 4th place I think he'll perform a bit of trial-and-error.

I don't know whether he is the right man, but I'm in the minority I know that believes he should at least get until the end of the season. We're still in the CL after all so it's not as if we have absolutely feck all to play for.

If we end the season the way we're performing now, then I may see a strong case to sack him. But there's still 13 league games to go and (hopefully) at least 2 CL fixtures to play.
I admire your 'loyalty', but the bolded bits just show that the pro-Moyes brigade seem to be running on some vain hope that things must get better, whereas the anti-Moyes brigade have many very valid reasons and have moved on from the no winning mentality/won nothing/just look at him that was there at the start of the season.

Again, what makes you think he can turn it around?
 

Adebesi

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I would still give Moyes more time. When you say, "the first season is going to be difficult but he should be judged on his second season," which is what I always said (and there is no point in going again into the reasons for saying that in the first instance), it is obviously tempting to change your mind when things go worse than expected - and yet in a way nothing has really changed, I still think Moyes should be judged on his second season.

Its getting harder and harder to defend this position and certainly Im not saying Im without internal conflict about this, of course Im not enjoying watching what is happening to us and its tempting to think a quick fix is the answer. Certainly we are at the point now where very few people could have any real complaints if he was sacked, you wouldnt be able to claim he wasnt given a fair chance and no, it wouldnt be comparable to the sacking of Ancelotti or Scolari. I wouldnt want to be in charge of making the decision because the pressure to get rid must be phenomenal, it seems like the obvious thing to do. And yet the original argument for why his first season would be tough and why a second season might be better than the first still stand.

And from a purely pragmatic and practical perspective, I dont think there is anyone better available anyway, so we might as well wait it out.
 

Neil_Buchanan

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Diego Forlan's thoughts


Forlan has also offered his take on events at Old Trafford, with it his opinion that things will come good under David Moyes if the Red Devils persevere with Sir Alex Ferguson's successor.

He added: "Players aren't robots, they need time to adjust.

"I think David Moyes will do well but fans need to be patient. United give their managers time. They should judge in another season.

"Until Moyes gets it right, it's a bonus for all the other teams. It's their moment now, their window to profit while United change."
 

Cal?

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Forlan is trolling, he's also called the J League on par with Top European leagues when in fact some Japan national team players play for Bundesliga II sides rather than J League sides.
 

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46 crosses in the first half
35 crosses in the second half
18 crosses reached team mates whole game

Autopilot tactics
 

togg

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To be honest, I reckon Moyes goes home at night feeling like absolutely shite. I personally don't think he really knows where to turn. I'm wondering what Sir Alex is saying to him....if anything
 

Getsme

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Fulham defender Dan Burn has compounded Manchester United's misery by comparing their approach under David Moyes to Conference-style football.

Burn, part of the Fulham side that snatched a 2-2 draw at Old Trafford through Darren Bent's 94th-minute equaliser, was playing non-league football for Darlington less than three years ago.

United produced 81 crosses against Fulham, a record number for a game since Opta stats began, with Cottagers boss and former Old Trafford coach Renee Meulensteen saying their approach was predictable from kick-off.

Burn went one step further after the game when he said: "I was just saying to the lads that I've never headed that many balls since the Conference!

"At the end of the day I'm happy for them to play like that. We knew that we were going to defend our box well.

"We were going to keep our back four quite narrow so that we were between the goal and the wingers were going to look after the wide men. We've been working on that in training. I thought it worked well.

"They've had plenty of crosses, loads of chances and stuff but the second goal was quite lucky. I always felt we had something left.

"We're chuffed [with the draw]. The lads are absolutely buzzing. I think we needed that. We've been on a bad run of form.
 

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ibly-wrong-and-manager-must-deliver-soon.html

David Moyes experiment at Manchester United is going terribly wrong and manager must deliver soon
Choice to overlook Jose Mourinho is looking even more dubious after defeat to Fulham at Old Trafford in Premier League

Perhaps there is a sub-plot to Jose Mourinho’s equine analogies as the Premier League title race enters the final straight.

Arsenal and Manchester City are the big horses and Chelsea the little horse, but with Manchester United now limping along in seventh position, have they backed the wrong horse in David Moyes?

Or, more to the point, did Sir Alex Ferguson stumble into his biggest misjudgement since Rock of Gibraltar when urging United’s American owners, the Glazer family, to disregard the qualities of Mourinho in order to hand Moyes the job of succeeding him at Old Trafford?

It only requires a glance at the Premier League table to suggest the experiment has gone terribly wrong.

With Mourinho’s Chelsea now sitting at the top of the table and improving game-by-game, it would not be beyond the Portuguese to aim his barbs with a subtle reminder to Ferguson and the Glazers that, when you want to back a winner, a proven ability to last the course and distance is the primary criteria.


Moyes is a good man and a proven manager in the Premier League following eleven years at Everton, but he has offered little evidence he is the man for Manchester United.

He must deliver something, somehow, in the final thirteen league games of the season to show that next season really will be better.

The Glazers and Ed Woodward, United’s executive vice-chairman, have given no indication of being jolted by the alarm bells that are ringing at Old Trafford and it would be wholly unexpected -- and wrong -- if Moyes was dispensed with now.

Patience and playing the long-game remains the position, but nobody should fall into the trap of second-guessing the Glazers.

United has always been a financial investment, first and foremost, for the Americans and failure is never good for business.

Long-term planning is admirable, but seventh position, out of both domestic cups and relying on an unlikely Champions League success to secure entry to the competition next season is not the best recipe for a robust bottom line.

With United now nine points adrift of fourth-placed Liverpool following Sunday’s 2-2 draw at home to Fulham, it is impossible to argue against the perception that things are getting worse, rather than better, at Old Trafford.

Under Moyes, United are twenty-one points worse off than at the same stage last season and, regardless of injuries, poor form, bad luck and whatever else may be cited as mitigation, it is inexcusable for a team of such talents and track record to be plumbing the depths of seventh position.

Moyes was indisputably dealt a poor hand by Ferguson when he took charge at Old Trafford last July and there can be no hiding from the reality that many of the squad he inherited were too old, injury-prone or simply not good enough.

But the same squad won the league by eleven points and that is the biggest stick with which Moyes is being beaten right now.

One manager -- Ferguson -- was able to motivate the squad to perform beyond its capabilities, yet the other -- Moyes -- is having the opposite effect, with United’s players unquestionably failing to deliver for the Scot.

Those players are the ones who must look themselves in the mirror, but when a manager talks about the buck stopping with him it is because he knows his job is to motivate, organise and deliver.

Moyes is not doing that and by decrying his players as ‘mentally soft‘ following the Fulham game, he is inadvertently pointing the finger at himself, the man charged with ensuring his team has the confidence and belief to perform.

Just as concerning for Moyes is that there is no visible pattern to his team’s play beyond, as Rene Meulensteen suggested on Sunday, ‘get it wide, get it in.’

As for a philosophy or vision for the future, it is shrouded in a fog of confusion.

When Liverpool toiled away under Brendan Rodgers last season and failed to qualify for Europe, the manager earned time and support because there was a clear sense of the team developing and growing.

That has been borne out by Liverpool’s hugely impressive season so far and the exciting football being played at Anfield.

Liverpool’s players bought in the Rodgers ethos, but if Moyes is attempting to get a message across at United, his players are either not listening or not taking it on and again, that is a failing of his management.

Perhaps that is the root of Moyes’s problem.

Big-time players, those who have won titles and cups, know how to win, but Moyes walks into the United dressing-room on a daily basis with a CV bereft of the kind of success his squad once took for granted.

How does Moyes persuade those players that his way is the right way, when he has nothing to show for it beyond cuttings of league tables with Everton positioned just outside the top four?

At Chelsea, there is no such credibility gap with Mourinho and that is a major factor in their success so far this season and the coaches ability to turn a team that was going nowhere into title challengers.

Moyes, for all his efforts, is currently achieving the opposite at Old Trafford, with United performing the biggest and most dramatic collapse since Devon Loch.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I would still give Moyes more time. When you say, "the first season is going to be difficult but he should be judged on his second season," which is what I always said (and there is no point in going again into the reasons for saying that in the first instance), it is obviously tempting to change your mind when things go worse than expected - and yet in a way nothing has really changed, I still think Moyes should be judged on his second season.

Its getting harder and harder to defend this position and certainly Im not saying Im without internal conflict about this, of course Im not enjoying watching what is happening to us and its tempting to think a quick fix is the answer. Certainly we are at the point now where very few people could have any real complaints if he was sacked, you wouldnt be able to claim he wasnt given a fair chance and no, it wouldnt be comparable to the sacking of Ancelotti or Scolari. I wouldnt want to be in charge of making the decision because the pressure to get rid must be phenomenal, it seems like the obvious thing to do. And yet the original argument for why his first season would be tough and why a second season might be better than the first still stand.

And from a purely pragmatic and practical perspective, I dont think there is anyone better available anyway, so we might as well wait it out.
Yup. That's my thoughts too. Almost verbatim.

Can you also tell me what I fancy for dinner?
 

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Yep, if ever a draw felt like a defeat then yesterday was definitely a contender.
 

Cal?

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I get a feeling he's talking tactics with fergie too much. We all know how much fergie loves his 442 and wing play and that could be an influence. Although moyes has taken it to another level.
That would be the same Sir Alex who had the team try out all sorts of formations inc magic square, diamond, 4231, 434 etc and managed to fit Kagawa in quite well?
 

Freak

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That would be the same Sir Alex who had the team try out all sorts of formations inc magic square, diamond, 4231, 434 etc and managed to fit Kagawa in quite well?
How often did he play those formations in his last few years though? A few times, yes. 442 was almost always what he went with. Have to agree with you with fitting kagawa in though which is why I said moyes has taken wing play to a whole new level. Even mata was joining in the crossing fiasco.
 

Kevin

Nostrodamus of football
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Fulham defender Dan Burn has compounded Manchester United's misery by comparing their approach under David Moyes to Conference-style football.

Burn, part of the Fulham side that snatched a 2-2 draw at Old Trafford through Darren Bent's 94th-minute equaliser, was playing non-league football for Darlington less than three years ago.

United produced 81 crosses against Fulham, a record number for a game since Opta stats began, with Cottagers boss and former Old Trafford coach Renee Meulensteen saying their approach was predictable from kick-off.

Burn went one step further after the game when he said: "I was just saying to the lads that I've never headed that many balls since the Conference!

"At the end of the day I'm happy for them to play like that.
No marks having a laugh at our expense as well now.

Moyes is annihilating us.
 

smallred

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love how we keep hearing "united dont sack managers". it took the club 16 years to find Busbys replacement, changing 5 times in 7 years because they did not put the right man in the job....

the man who replaced Busby got 17 months, his eventual replacement got 18 months.

Fergies tenure was a once in a lifetime event, it will never again happen at the club or any club for that matter. its given a complete myth to this "time" aspect....Most other clubs would have sacked him already and if Fergie was gone completely from the club, i think he'd be gone by now too.

you would think they would learned a lesson from the past and realise that these things need to be done right and we need a man in charge, who is as big as the club.
 

MikeUpNorth

Wobbles like a massive pair of tits
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Fulham defender Dan Burn has compounded Manchester United's misery by comparing their approach under David Moyes to Conference-style football.

Burn, part of the Fulham side that snatched a 2-2 draw at Old Trafford through Darren Bent's 94th-minute equaliser, was playing non-league football for Darlington less than three years ago.

United produced 81 crosses against Fulham, a record number for a game since Opta stats began, with Cottagers boss and former Old Trafford coach Renee Meulensteen saying their approach was predictable from kick-off.

Burn went one step further after the game when he said: "I was just saying to the lads that I've never headed that many balls since the Conference!

"At the end of the day I'm happy for them to play like that. We knew that we were going to defend our box well.

"We were going to keep our back four quite narrow so that we were between the goal and the wingers were going to look after the wide men. We've been working on that in training. I thought it worked well.

"They've had plenty of crosses, loads of chances and stuff but the second goal was quite lucky. I always felt we had something left.

"We're chuffed [with the draw]. The lads are absolutely buzzing. I think we needed that. We've been on a bad run of form.
As bad as we've been, opposition players and managers are starting to get overly cocky in their statements. I can't wait for us to get playing well again and put them back in their place with a proper hammering.
 

Getsme

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As bad as we've been, opposition players and managers are starting to get overly cocky in their statements. I can't wait for us to get playing well again and put them back in their place with a proper hammering.
It will be nice, but I feel we have quite a few more embarrassing results in us before we turn it around. :(
 
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