Nas vs. Jay-Z

CLK_FPC

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There is so much more to this than the music. Ether was scathing, burning souls since '01 and the reason why is because it was largely true.

It wasn't Foxy feeding Nas info it was Jaz-O hence "In '88 you was getting chased through your building".

Can you imagine old head Jay calling Nas at his house? Didn't even give him his number



And just to clarify as well the whole cockafella thing isn't just a childish jibe.

'Rockerfella died of aids that was the end of his chapter and that's the guy y'all chose to name your company after?'

None of the Rockerfellers died of aids, the Rockerfella in question was a street hustler that was getting it in. He caught aids apparently from fecking a man/men and died hence 'cockafella' has actually relevance.

Nas won bruhs from the tracks, to Jay-Z's reaction to the reaction of the Rocafella camp!
Life Is Good
 

Sam

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Ether is one of the most overrated tracks ever. I genuinely don't get the love for it. Its not exactly clever is it, I mean, Gay-Z, wow genius...Whereas Takeover is, imo, one of the great tracks. Lyrically its just perfect.

Takeover >>>>> Ether

In terms of overrall though, Nas vs Jay-Z its very hard, almost impossible to say who's better. I personally prefer to listen to Jay's back catalogue of music, but in saying that, I think Nas is lyrically and technically just a tad better.

Basically, they're two of the greats, and its gonna be down to personal taste as to who is 'better'.
 

Sam

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Blueprint and Black Album were both brilliant. American Gangster was also great.
American Gangster is one of the most underrated albums. Hardly ever gets mentioned when people talk about Jay's best work. But for me, its right up there.
 

CLK_FPC

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Ether is one of the most overrated tracks ever. I genuinely don't get the love for it. Its not exactly clever is it, I mean, Gay-Z, wow genius...Whereas Takeover is, imo, one of the great tracks. Lyrically its just perfect.

Takeover >>>>> Ether

In terms of overrall though, Nas vs Jay-Z its very hard, almost impossible to say who's better. I personally prefer to listen to Jay's back catalogue of music, but in saying that, I think Nas is lyrically and technically just a tad better.

Basically, they're two of the greats, and its gonna be down to personal taste as to who is 'better'.
 

Sam

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Lyrically, its not even close. There's barely a wasted word on Takeover, its almost perfect. Just listen to it, every word, every sentence, is there for a reason. There's no wasted lyrics. Its flawless. fecking hell, just thinking about it makes me want to go and listen to the Blueprint right now. Whereas Ether, on the other hand, is full of unbelievably (especially by Nas' standards) weak lyrics.

Look, I like Nas, I think the guy's an absolute genius. But Ether isnt anywhere near as good as Takeover.
 

Sam

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Takeover, for the most part, is a brag rap.

Ether is a full on diss record.
Ether is full of nonsense disses that might sound good, but effectively mean nothing. Things that anyone can say.

Takeover is full of truth. Its just a genius song.
 

CLK_FPC

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Lyrically, its not even close. There's barely a wasted word on Takeover, its almost perfect. Just listen to it, every word, every sentence, is there for a reason. There's no wasted lyrics. Its flawless. fecking hell, just thinking about it makes me want to go and listen to the Blueprint right now. Whereas Ether, on the other hand, is full of unbelievably (especially by Nas' standards) weak lyrics.

Look, I like Nas, I think the guy's an absolute genius. But Ether isnt anywhere near as good as Takeover.
Nas ate that, brushed it off and made your boy cry with Ether. Had them dudes turning off the radio in the studio so the Camel's feelings wouldn't get hurt when they played it on Hot 97 or people called in to praise it
 

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Jay-z has obviously declined and I cringe at a good amount of his verses these days. But I agree he his being severely underrated. Jay-z between 95 to say 2003 was easily one of the most skilled rappers of all time, easily. Eight years is long enough in rap music to justify being at the very top echelon as far as all time greats go.

His only "weakness" was his subject matter. The fact that he wasn't "socially conscious". But I (and millions of others evidently) didn't care for that as I'm not expecting to learn anything from a rapper that I couldn't learn from the education system. Rap is entertainment at the end of the day not a physics class.

Most of the "geeky" rappers have feck all charisma and lack the ability to make music that a lot can relate to (Canibus and AZ are perfect examples of this) which is obviously the most important thing in music and why they don't usually have long careers. Rap started out with elementary lyrics and it wasn't until Rakim that complex lyricism started to surface (who himself noted than an MC's primary job is to "move the crowd")

Jay-z has 2 great albums, 2 excellent albums, 3 very good albums and one or two average to poor albums in a career that has spanned almost 20 years which is unique in the relatively short life span of music artists, nevermind in rap music, a fickle genre that is only about 30 years old. All things considered, you'd be hard pressed to find more than 5 rappers that have a better standing in genre.
 

KiD MoYeS

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Jay-z has obviously declined and I cringe at a good amount of his verses these days. But I agree he his being severely underrated. Jay-z between 95 to say 2003 was easily one of the most skilled rappers of all time, easily. Eight years is long enough in rap music to justify being at the very top echelon as far as all time greats go.

His only "weakness" was his subject matter. The fact that he wasn't "socially conscious". But I (and millions of others evidently) didn't care for that as I'm not expecting to learn anything from a rapper that I couldn't learn from the education system. Rap is entertainment at the end of the day not a physics class.

Most of the "geeky" rappers have feck all charisma and lack the ability to make music that a lot can relate to (Canibus and AZ are perfect examples of this) which is obviously the most important thing in music and why they don't usually have long careers. Rap started out with elementary lyrics and it wasn't until Rakim that complex lyricism started to surface (who himself noted than an MC's primary job is to "move the crowd")

Jay-z has 2 great albums, 2 excellent albums, 3 very good albums and one or two average to poor albums in a career that has spanned almost 20 years which is unique in the relatively short life span of music artists, nevermind in rap music, a fickle genre that is only about 30 years old. All things considered, you'd be hard pressed to find more than 5 rappers that have a better standing in genre.
Agree, nicely put.
 

Red Devil 26

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The Blueprint for me is an incredibly overrated album. Good but not great. Reasonable Doubt is comfortably Jay-Z's best effort IMO.

And yeah Nas > Jay-Z. No contest.
 

Pink Moon

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But then, Jay-Z is widely considered the best of all time. So looking at the bigger picture, Jay won.
He is? That's crazy.

He's a great businessman but he isn't even close to being the best of all time imo.

Got all his albums but don't find any of them to be classics the way I do Illmatic, Ready to Die, 36 Chambers, Liquid Swords, Black on Both Sides etc.

As for Nas v Jay-Z? Come on man, as Nas would say "it ain't hard to tell".
 

Stretch

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Ok, let me give my take on this.

I want to say up front, Ether was a KO blow in the beef. That was the end of it really. Reasons you might ask, well.

Many say that Takeover was more factual than Ether, but was it really though? On the balance of available evidence both rappers 'stretch' the truth a bit. But let's break it down on a few facts:

Takeover;

-'You's the fag model for Karl Kani Esco ads' Fact.

-'Went from Nasty Nas to Esco's trash
Had a spark when you started but now you're just garbage
Fell from "top 10" to "not mentioned at all"
To your bodyguard's "Oochie Wally"'s verse better than yours
Matter of fact you had the worst flow on the whole fecking song'

This whole section is opinion not fact. Sure Nas' career had taken a bit of slump but Nastradamus still went platinum so to say he went to 'not mentioned at all' is inaccurate plus the very fact that Jay's dissing shows his relevance.

-'One hot album every 10 years'; That's not really a fact is it? Jay was clever to use Nas' faltering career to create an illusion that Nas only made one hot album until that point. It was written was another classic, sure, not on Illmatic level (what else is on that level anyway?) but it was a classic in it's own right

-'I showed you your first Tec, on tour with Large Professor
Then I heard your album about your Tec on the dresser' Fact. Well at least part of it. Jay did pull a Tec on tour with Large Pro (LP confirmed it) but it's conjecture whether this was Nas' 1st viewing of a Tec but well used by Jay here.

-'You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song'; Jay actually contradicts himself since he himself stated illmatic was a classic and to suggest his song was hotter is opinion not fact. In fact, I'd wager if you play the two tracks at a hip hop party you'd get a bigger reaction for The world is yours.

-'And you ain't get a coin, nigga, you was getting fecked then
I know who I paid, God - Serchlite publishing'; This has since turned out to be a lie. MC Serch himself said Nas owned the publishing himself. It was a clever way of making it seem as if he got Nas.

Now those are some of the 'best' lines in Takeover yet I've just shown that the so called 'factual' basis is meh at best. Hence, me saying both reached a bit.

Ether;

-'With Hawaiian Sophie fame, kept my name in his music' Fact. Jay came onto the rap scene with Jaz O in Hawain Sophie music video and add to that, Jay mentioned Nas in EVERY single album up until Blueprint.

-'And his manuscript just sound stupid
When KRS already made an album called Blueprint' Fact.

-'First Biggie's your man, Then you got the nerve to say that you better than Big' Fact.

-'You seem to be only concerned with dissing women, Were you abused as a child, scared to smile, they called you ugly' Hypocritical from Nas but factual. Look at Jay's discography and see his attitude toward women. Also, Jay himself admitted he only got girls because he's famous because they used to call him ugly when he was younger.

-'I still whip your ass, you thirty-six in a karate class
You Tae-bo ho, tryna' work it out, you tryna' get brolic' Fact. Jay himself admitted he did Tae-bo.

-'Rocafella died of AIDS, that was the end of his chapter
And that's the guy y'all chose to name your company after?' Every one assumes this is a reference to the well known Rockefellers but it's not. It's a reference to a druglord that Jaz O referred to on his song 'Love is gone'.

-'You ass, went from Jaz to hanging with Kane, to Irv, to Big, And Eminem murdered you on your own shit' Fact first line. 2nd line opinion but just like Jay in Takeover, cleverly used.

So from the above it's clear that both songs had facts and both stretched it at times. In fact the so called facts (one of the 'strong' points of Takeover) on Takeover weren't even factual.

Now the way I see it, Takeover and Jay's overall attack point was to assassinate Nas' credentials based on 'facts' and 'events'. He failed at this in my opinion as most of his facts were opinion. Ether however, if you go listen to it again, was not meant to focus on facts but rather it was a psychological attack on Jay's ego which is Jay's biggest 'weapon' and 'flaw'. This is evident by how broken Jay Z sounds on Hot 97 and then the fact that he was so desperate to drop Supa Ugly, add to that he kept the 'beef' going all by himself on Blueprint 2 on which he admitted defeat himself. 'For even in defeat there's lesson to learn so it evens it out for me'

So Ether ended the battle in my opinion. Nas moved the goal posts by going after Jay's very soul, his ego. Hence the gay references, also hence the 'your my child' kind of tone of Ether.
 

KiD MoYeS

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Been re-listening to Illmatic a good bit since this thread, it's nineteen years old since yesterday! :eek:

Anyway, it really is one of the best rap albums of all time.
 

KiD MoYeS

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Aye, two absolute quality emcees there pushing the best outta each other. Gonna listen to that tomorrow now.
 

Jimy_Hills_Chin

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Good bump this. Listened to Illmatic today at work, and the only criticism I have is that it's too fecking short.
Aye

Great album but a bit lazy.

As for Jay Z, I have never really understood the hype. I remember him on Jonathon Ross saying how not many people are aware of 'his gift' in that he improvises his lyrics in the studio. It was a moment of revelation for me, as I then understood why his lyrics sound like semi incomprehensible garbage to my ears.

Can't argue with his bottom line record sales though.
 

Adzzz

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There is so much more to this than the music. Ether was scathing, burning souls since '01 and the reason why is because it was largely true.

It wasn't Foxy feeding Nas info it was Jaz-O hence "In '88 you was getting chased through your building".

Can you imagine old head Jay calling Nas at his house? Didn't even give him his number

And just to clarify as well the whole cockafella thing isn't just a childish jibe.

'Rockerfella died of aids that was the end of his chapter and that's the guy y'all chose to name your company after?'

None of the Rockerfellers died of aids, the Rockerfella in question was a street hustler that was getting it in. He caught aids apparently from fecking a man/men and died hence 'cockafella' has actually relevance.


Nas won bruhs from the tracks, to Jay-Z's reaction to the reaction of the Rocafella camp!
Life Is Good
So he elaborately called them Homo's? Stop the press! What a diss, homophobic too!
 

ArmchairCritic

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Aye

Great album but a bit lazy.

As for Jay Z, I have never really understood the hype. I remember him on Jonathon Ross saying how not many people are aware of 'his gift' in that he improvises his lyrics in the studio. It was a moment of revelation for me, as I then understood why his lyrics sound like semi incomprehensible garbage to my ears.

Can't argue with his bottom line record sales though.


@3:58 in the 2nd video.
 

Bebe

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Top 5 in no order

Illmatic
Paid in Full
Ready to Die
Me against the world
The low end theory

Honorable mention:
It takes a nation of millions to hold us back
Reasonable doubt
The miseducation of Lauryn hill
The chronic
 

duffer

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I wish musicians in other genres of music did this sort of silly (but entertaining) stuff.

I can only dream of what shit a Beatles v Rolling Stones rivaly could have produced.
 

Wonder Pigeon

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I wish musicians in other genres of music did this sort of silly (but entertaining) stuff.

I can only dream of what shit a Beatles v Rolling Stones rivaly could have produced.
You don't think Lynryd Skynyrd diss of Neil Young was enough?
 

CassiusClaymore

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Top 5 in no order

Illmatic
Paid in Full
Ready to Die
Me against the world
The low end theory

Honorable mention:
It takes a nation of millions to hold us back
Reasonable doubt
The miseducation of Lauryn hill
The chronic
Meh.

Midnight Marauders is better than low end theory.

I'd probably have Illmatic and Ready To Die in my top ten but Tupac is nowhere near.

Off the top of my head essential hip hop albums are....

The Sun Rises In The East
Wrath of the Math
Illmatic
Ready to Die
Life after Death
Enter The Wu Tang:36 Chambers
Only Built 4 Cuban Linx
Liquid Swords
Ironman
Return of the Boom Bap
Hard to Earn
Moment Of Truth
The Infamous
Capital Punishment
Stone Crazy
Musical Massacre
Midnight Marauders
Low End Theory
Cancer 4 Cure
Fantastic Damage
Funcrusher Plus
Marshel Mathers LP
Slim Shady LP
The Chronic
Doggystyle
Straight Out of Compton
Black Sunday
It Takes A Nation Of Millions...
Paid In Full

Christ there's loads. I envy anyone who discovers any of those for the first time.
 

Bebe

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Meh.

Midnight Marauders is better than low end theory.

I'd probably have Illmatic and Ready To Die in my top ten but Tupac is nowhere near.

Off the top of my head essential hip hop albums are....

The Sun Rises In The East
Wrath of the Math
Illmatic
Ready to Die
Life after Death
Enter The Wu Tang:36 Chambers
Only Built 4 Cuban Linx
Liquid Swords
Ironman
Return of the Boom Bap
Hard to Earn
Moment Of Truth
The Infamous
Capital Punishment
Stone Crazy
Musical Massacre
Midnight Marauders
Low End Theory
Cancer 4 Cure
Fantastic Damage
Funcrusher Plus
Marshel Mathers LP
Slim Shady LP
The Chronic
Doggystyle
Straight Out of Compton
Black Sunday
It Takes A Nation Of Millions...
Paid In Full

Christ there's loads. I envy anyone who discovers any of those for the first time.
Don't see how you can come up with an essential hip hop list and leave Tupac out mate.
 

Bebe

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He's overrated though, to be fair.

Black on Both Sides should be there. Fantastic album.
As a rapper sure, in the sense that he never had the technical ability of most other hip hop greats. But he's still my favourite rapper ever bar none because of his lyrics and message. From an intellectual standpoint ie what one actually gains listening to his music, he's at the very top.
 

JP77

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Tupac isn't overrated, let's not start being silly here.

Probably the greatest ever. Not my favorite, but it's hard to argue against really when taking everything into account.
 

cesc's_mullet

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I always find rap 'beef' humorous. Why not duke it out like real men and let that be that?

I take it they put aside their differences (how? Why?) since the Jay-Z produced NBA 2k13 features a few Nas tunes.