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SportingCP96

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Still blows my mind that people on here thought Dudley deserved a roster spot more then him:houllier:

Also how about Drose though !? Comfortably 6th man of the year, I really hope he Makes the all star team!
 

SportingCP96

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Has more assists and rebounds per game, better field goal percentage but yea a worse version of Harden ;)

Giannis for MVP, then Luka, LeBron and Harden.
I have to agree with this, Luka has been ridiculous and he is not even old enough to drink!

1.Giannis
2. Luka
3A. Lebron 3B. Harden
 

giorno

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Has more assists and rebounds per game, better field goal percentage but yea a worse version of Harden ;)

Giannis for MVP, then Luka, LeBron and Harden.
Harden is scoring 38 points per game. He averages 2 less assists per game, fewer rebounds of course, but more steals, fewer turnovers and a better TS%. He comes ahead of Luka on virtually every all-in-one offensive metric, and most defensive ones too

He's just plainly a better player than Luka right now, and is playing better than Luka

Also, the mavs are still pretty good when Luka sits. Ditto the Bucks with Giannis. The Rockets crater when Harden sits
 

Sarni

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Has more assists and rebounds per game, better field goal percentage but yea a worse version of Harden ;)

Giannis for MVP, then Luka, LeBron and Harden.
Field goal percentage is one of the worst stats to use to compare players, Harden takes a lot more threes (over 4 per game more). His eFG% is better and his TS% is much better. Rebounds aren’t great to use for guards either, Dallas are letting him get rebounds and start their offensive possessions, Harden shares his rebounds with Westbrook and Capela. Assists are okay I guess but again Harden shares playmaking with Westbrook, Luka does this almost by himself.
 

SportingCP96

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Harden is scoring 38 points per game. He averages 2 less assists per game, fewer rebounds of course, but more steals, fewer turnovers and a better TS%. He comes ahead of Luka on virtually every all-in-one offensive metric, and most defensive ones too

He's just plainly a better player than Luka right now, and is playing better than Luka

Also, the mavs are still pretty good when Luka sits. Ditto the Bucks with Giannis. The Rockets crater when Harden sits
Scoring machine man. Harden is a player that is hard to like but man do I respect his game. Best scorer in the NBA by far IMO.
 

SportingCP96

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Also Lonzo has been on a great run of form. He looks like UCLA Lonzo and with Zion returning I think he will get better and that duo will be really fun to watch!

Does anyone really see Lakers trading Kuz?
 

giorno

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They're both ball dominant guards who hold onto the ball for a lot of time and then attack either through PnR or Iso. Harden is a much better scorer, a slightly inferior playmaker, and a more efficient player. And he's also a better defender.

When teams systematically double team Luka at halfcourt to get the ball out his hands, and Luka still puts up absolutely stupid numbers anyways, then we can talk about who's playing better
 

Sarni

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My MVP ranking so far would be:
1. Giannis
2. Lebron (very close 2nd)
3. Doncic

Lebron is mighty impressive in this new role.

In other news, Jazz are starting to look great.
Bogdanovic had an interesting stat line the other night.
 

Jim Beam

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Bogdanovic had an interesting stat line the other night.
Definitely... Happened to him for the 2nd time in his career btw making him the only player who has multiple +25 points games with no steals, blocks, rebounds or assists.

Unsure how you manage to not get a single other number in your stats during so much minutes. You would wonder he would get 1 by pure randomness or by simply being on the court.
 

hasanejaz88

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Field goal percentage is one of the worst stats to use to compare players, Harden takes a lot more threes (over 4 per game more). His eFG% is better and his TS% is much better. Rebounds aren’t great to use for guards either, Dallas are letting him get rebounds and start their offensive possessions, Harden shares his rebounds with Westbrook and Capela. Assists are okay I guess but again Harden shares playmaking with Westbrook, Luka does this almost by himself.
Dallas lets Luka have rebounds? That's a bogus argument, how about Luka commands the area more and collects the rebounds. The fact that you argue that Harden has to share the assists with Westbrook shows Luka's importance to the Mavs more, Luka has to be the prime scorer and playmaker, something neither Harden or LeBron have responsibility over.

Harden is scoring 38 points per game. He averages 2 less assists per game, fewer rebounds of course, but more steals, fewer turnovers and a better TS%. He comes ahead of Luka on virtually every all-in-one offensive metric, and most defensive ones too

He's just plainly a better player than Luka right now, and is playing better than Luka

Also, the mavs are still pretty good when Luka sits. Ditto the Bucks with Giannis. The Rockets crater when Harden sits
Harden averages 38 points while Luka averages almost a 30 point triple double a game! Westbrook won the MVP over a similar 30 point triple double season (though in a less efficient way).

And last I remember the Mavs were 2-3 without Luka, albeit in a really rough stretch of games. Though they have also already beaten the Lakers and Rockets away, Raptors at home, with Luka as well.

Luka does more on the court than Harden, he's the playmaker and scorer for team that's doing well above expectation
 

giorno

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Dallas lets Luka have rebounds? That's a bogus argument, how about Luka commands the area more and collects the rebounds. The fact that you argue that Harden has to share the assists with Westbrook shows Luka's importance to the Mavs more, Luka has to be the prime scorer and playmaker, something neither Harden or LeBron have responsibility over.
Once again, the Mavs still do well when Luka sits. The rockets turn into one of the worst teams in the league the moment Harden is not on the court. How is Luka doing more exactly?


Harden averages 38 points while Luka averages almost a 30 point triple double a game! Westbrook won the MVP over a similar 30 point triple double season (though in a less efficient way).

Luka does more on the court than Harden, he's the playmaker and scorer for team that's doing well above expectation
Harden comes ahead on PER, OBPM, RAPTOR, PIM, you name it

He scores more, assists slightly less, loses the ball less, is more efficient. Luka may do more things, but Harden does his better

Also, here's how many players averaged 38 or more in NBA history: Wilt. The end

And again, and i can't believe i have to repeat this: James Harden gets systematically doubled at halfcourt to force the ball out of his hands, and he still averages a 38/5/7 line with the second highest PER ever(only Giannis this season is ahead)
 

Sarni

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Dallas lets Luka have rebounds? That's a bogus argument, how about Luka commands the area more and collects the rebounds. The fact that you argue that Harden has to share the assists with Westbrook shows Luka's importance to the Mavs more, Luka has to be the prime scorer and playmaker, something neither Harden or LeBron have responsibility over.



Harden averages 38 points while Luka averages almost a 30 point triple double a game! Westbrook won the MVP over a similar 30 point triple double season (though in a less efficient way).

And last I remember the Mavs were 2-3 without Luka, albeit in a really rough stretch of games. Though they have also already beaten the Lakers and Rockets away, Raptors at home, with Luka as well.

Luka does more on the court than Harden, he's the playmaker and scorer for team that's doing well above expectation
Guards getting defensive rebounds is quite often because of team tactics rather their superior ability to get them. If Harden was tipped as the one to start all their attacks and Capela boxed out to allow him to do that he would be getting more than he is getting as well.

Rockets and Lakers have different goals than Mavs this season, of course they had to give them different roles.
 

giorno

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Guards getting defensive rebounds is quite often because of team tactics rather their superior ability to get them. If Harden was tipped as the one to start all their attacks and Capela boxed out to allow him to do that he would be getting more than he is getting as well.

Rockets and Lakers have different goals than Mavs this season, of course they had to give them different roles.
It's not just tactics, Doncic is just a great rebounder for a guard. Helps that he's 6-7 for 230+ lbs of course...

Also Harden is the rockets leader in assists, too
 

adexkola

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Kuz is going to get traded.

Also, what's the big deal with resting/rotating in the NBA? For me, Kawhi is a genius. Clippers will be heavy favourites (in my book) to win it this year, and a big reason for that is how well rested George and Kawhi will be.

Obviously there's the chance they don't get the same chemistry as LeBron and AD due to playing significantly less minutes together, but they'll still be great and have a phenomenal defensive unit on the court. They're heavy favourites.

Why don't more players rest/rotate/load manage?
Because it fecks with the money?
 

hasanejaz88

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Harden gets 41pts from 9-34 shooting :D

Trae also gets a 40 point triple double, slightly better shooting than Harden. Btw you've got to feel for Trae, he's always being compared to Luka so people aren't appreciating him for the fantastic player he is. He's also posting insane stats for a 2nd year player, both he and Luka look like future HOFs.
 

Sarni

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Harden gets 41pts from 9-34 shooting :D

Trae also gets a 40 point triple double, slightly better shooting than Harden. Btw you've got to feel for Trae, he's always being compared to Luka so people aren't appreciating him for the fantastic player he is. He's also posting insane stats for a 2nd year player, both he and Luka look like future HOFs.
Doesn't help that Atlanta have made a mess out of building around him so far. I thought they could be around 35-40 wins this year after good finish last year but seems like they will be closer to 20-25 range which is abysmal.
 

syrian_scholes

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Harden gets 41pts from 9-34 shooting :D

Trae also gets a 40 point triple double, slightly better shooting than Harden. Btw you've got to feel for Trae, he's always being compared to Luka so people aren't appreciating him for the fantastic player he is. He's also posting insane stats for a 2nd year player, both he and Luka look like future HOFs.
He's been shooting so well for so many games in a row now, just the game before this one he got a 40 points triple double with a great shooting performance, but you can bet the anti-Harden agenda people won't say shit about that and jump on him as soon as he has a bad game, but hey, every player is allowed bad games except Harden.
 

Scarecrow

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Field goal percentage is one of the worst stats to use to compare players, Harden takes a lot more threes (over 4 per game more). His eFG% is better and his TS% is much better. Rebounds aren’t great to use for guards either, Dallas are letting him get rebounds and start their offensive possessions, Harden shares his rebounds with Westbrook and Capela. Assists are okay I guess but again Harden shares playmaking with Westbrook, Luka does this almost by himself.
That's an argument for a discussion on who is a better player but not for MVP, to be fair. It's about value provided. If you do more, you provide more value. That's all there is to it. Circumstances are irrelevant.

Similarly, minutes played are a huge factor in MVP. Zach Lowe used the argument that Giannis has a similar scoring number as Harden per 36 and that's why he should be MVP. That's just wrong. You're not providing any value when you sit and you are when you play.

I still think Giannis should be MVP.
 

SportingCP96

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Harden gets 41pts from 9-34 shooting :D

Trae also gets a 40 point triple double, slightly better shooting than Harden. Btw you've got to feel for Trae, he's always being compared to Luka so people aren't appreciating him for the fantastic player he is. He's also posting insane stats for a 2nd year player, both he and Luka look like future HOFs.
Trae is insane! A lot of people say Atalanta “lost” by reading Luka but did they? I mean Luka is the better player but Trae is a franchise player as well. His shooting ability is that of a baby steph curry his passing is great and he has great handles as well. If they do things right Atalanta could have a TEAM in a few years. I really enjoy watching Trae play.
 

Sarni

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That's an argument for a discussion on who is a better player but not for MVP, to be fair. It's about value provided. If you do more, you provide more value. That's all there is to it. Circumstances are irrelevant.

Similarly, minutes played are a huge factor in MVP. Zach Lowe used the argument that Giannis has a similar scoring number as Harden per 36 and that's why he should be MVP. That's just wrong. You're not providing any value when you sit and you are when you play.

I still think Giannis should be MVP.
But to be fair Harden is basically Houston's offense. He pulls that train, without him on the floor they are abysmal.
 

Sarni

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Trae is insane! A lot of people say Atalanta “lost” by reading Luka but did they? I mean Luka is the better player but Trae is a franchise player as well. His shooting ability is that of a baby steph curry his passing is great and he has great handles as well. If they do things right Atalanta could have a TEAM in a few years. I really enjoy watching Trae play.
Trae is a fantastic player but his ceiling is much lower than Doncic's. It's really sad that that trade will loom over him for his entire career because he's easily a top 10 point guard at 21 yet everytime he's mentioned, the Doncic trade comes up.

Doesn't help that Atlanta seem to have blown the Dallas pick they received as compensation to trade down. Reddish is abysmal and I'm actually not sure anymore he will really improve to a degree where he is a serviceable rotation player. It would have helped Trae massively if they picked someone good with that and it became Trae + someone for Doncic rather than Trae + crap for Doncic.
 

Eboue

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That's an argument for a discussion on who is a better player but not for MVP, to be fair. It's about value provided. If you do more, you provide more value. That's all there is to it. Circumstances are irrelevant.

Similarly, minutes played are a huge factor in MVP. Zach Lowe used the argument that Giannis has a similar scoring number as Harden per 36 and that's why he should be MVP. That's just wrong. You're not providing any value when you sit and you are when you play.

I still think Giannis should be MVP.
Yes you are. There are 48*5 minutes available to an NBA team in a given game. If you are playing efficiently in your minutes then you allow other well rested players to utilize the others.
 

giorno

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He's been shooting so well for so many games in a row now, just the game before this one he got a 40 points triple double with a great shooting performance, but you can bet the anti-Harden agenda people won't say shit about that and jump on him as soon as he has a bad game, but hey, every player is allowed bad games except Harden.
Says everything about the different standard he's held to that an inefficient 40 point triple double is considered a bad game for him

I mean, if Harden was bad against the hawks, then so was Luka against the Nuggets
 

giorno

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Trae is a fantastic player but his ceiling is much lower than Doncic's.
I'm not sure his ceiling is much lower than Doncic's honestly. Mostly i think the main difference between them in the future might be defence. Right now the main differences are one is playing on a better team with a much better coach, and Luka's floor is quite simply much higher than Trae's
 

syrian_scholes

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Says everything about the different standard he's held to that an inefficient 40 point triple double is considered a bad game for him

I mean, if Harden was bad against the hawks, then so was Luka against the Nuggets


This was the game before the Hawks game vs the 76ers, an actual good team, 44 points on 13/24 fgs and 6/12 3 pts, 11 rebounds, 11 assists, 1 steal, and 1 block, it's so frustrating to me as a Rockets fan to see how every time he have an off shooting game everyone talks about it but when he has games like this, which is more often, no one talks about it, it's as if people avoid talking about it because they don't want to bring him up as MVP contender.

As for his playmaking ability, the season before CP3 arrived he averaged 10 assists per game and he is now the player with most assists in franchise history.
 

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I'm not sure his ceiling is much lower than Doncic's honestly. Mostly i think the main difference between them in the future might be defence. Right now the main differences are one is playing on a better team with a much better coach, and Luka's floor is quite simply much higher than Trae's
I agree with this. I think Trae's offensive ceiling is just as high, if not higher than Luka's. If Trae get be in a situation like Curry found himself (with good defenders and some spacing) he'll be unstoppable.

Fan all-star voting is a joke as well. I wish they'd bin it.
 

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Yes you are. There are 48*5 minutes available to an NBA team in a given game. If you are playing efficiently in your minutes then you allow other well rested players to utilize the others.
Hmm, I don't get it. If you're more efficient than your replacement, then the team loses value every minute you sit, no?
 

elmo

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LeBron has been rested plenty of times in his career. He missed the entire finish to last season to 'allow his groin to heal' (which would have 100% not happened had they still been in playoffs race) and did not care back then.
LeBron's full of shit and I've no clue why people aren't aware of it.