Neville - ‘’no style of play’’

[Godfather]

Even if that were true, the likes of Villa have done a full 180 in how they are playing football this season compared to last and executing it like they've played that was for seasons all with inferior personnel almost to a man, when compared to us. I'm seeing instant transformations across the league from one style of play to another as coaches decide - of course, Tuchel getting a tune out of his team almost immediately last season being a beacon for this. We should just remove names and status for a moment and consider how or why these coaches are able to do that - how is Potter playing that kind of football with, forgive the wording, relative nobodies? How did Bielsa manage it last season, and so on and so forth. We need upgrades in midfield, there is absolutely no question about that, but what we have here currently is so far below the bar of what they are capable of that people who have no horse in the Ole in/out race are starting to get anxious.

For me personally, the most frustrating thing of all is the thought we're as close to disbanding as building on top of what we've amassed. Pogba, Cavani and Ronaldo could all be off into the sunset if this season falls through. That amount of quality is not going to be replaced in a single summer, and then we've taken 3 steps back and 2 forward for a net gain of being weaker than we were, once more. This Ole in/out stuff should not have precedence over what is good and beneficial for the club.

Very good post

 

[Hugh Jass]

It mirrors Southgates England, just not as bad. But the goal IMO is to get a goal through individual brilliance like our first against Newcastle and then hit the team on the counter when they attack.

 

[Fortitude]

If you have a balanced team with very young, players in their prime and older players, I believe that you are in a state of constant mini-rebuild which is a good thing compared to the complete overhaul situation. Now the issue is that you need a manager and coaches that have a tune of what they have at all time. And that's where I have always had doubts about Ole, I like the fact that he managed the team overhaul very well but I never sensed that he was a winning manager, someone that is able to tweak a team and put players in very specific roles that makes the team better. Everything is on default mode, if that makes sense.

Makes perfect sense to me because I have some of the same concerns.What you're talking about is always good because that's a manager in control making tweaks and adjustments he sees fit, as opposed to adjustments coming from 'left field' as star turns get fed up and seek pastures new whilst leaving massive voids in the team that need to be filled in post haste (which diverts eyes from actually strengthening the team, as the scramble then is just to remain par with what you're losing). I'm all for the kinds of tweaks you mention as they fine tune a team and keep everything fresh and optimised.

As much as I want us to make a genuine title challenge this season, I have felt that the season is about so much more than that, which is why it can't just be allowed to play out and us fritter away the best squad we've had in 15(!) years. Whether it's Ole that can right the ship and have us looking the part, or if it's a bridge too far for him and we need to arrest the fall and get someone else in, it needs to be decisive and done at a time when the season is salvageable, and the title race, still on.

I think in the myopia of the concerns about Ole, the greater picture - life of the squad and its contingency - gets lost and it's imperative (imo) that is does not as it's the club over any manager we've had in post-Fergie.

 

[Amir]

However, please tell me what the style of play was from 2009-2013 where we competed for the league each season? It seems very similar to this with the cut throat, counter-attacking style. Some of the games we had last season were eerily similar to those late Ferguson days.

I certainly see the similarities, but:

A) No matter what issues it had, that team had an x-factor that this team won't. It had Ferguson.

B) While United'd achievements were good in Fergie's latter years, I think we'll all agree it wasn't his most impressive team or football. Surely we should be aiming higher?

C) Football has evolved since then. Pep and Klopp came in and raised the bar. We need to do the same rather than think that what worked in 2013 is fine for 2021, as it's not enough anymore.

 

[siw2007]

I think Neville was pretty accurate in that podcast. The bit that stood out for me the most was the final part where he mentions that our rivals put in team performances, I think this is very telling as when we play, it is rare we see a team performance but it is performances from individuals.

As good as it is to have a talented roster, it’s just as important that they play as a team. Ole must now deliver this because if he can’t (which is looking likely now), then we will find someone who can.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Even if that were true, the likes of Villa have done a full 180 in how they are playing football this season compared to last and executing it like they've played that was for seasons all with inferior personnel almost to a man, when compared to us. I'm seeing instant transformations across the league from one style of play to another as coaches decide - of course, Tuchel getting a tune out of his team almost immediately last season being a beacon for this. We should just remove names and status for a moment and consider how or why these coaches are able to do that - how is Potter playing that kind of football with, forgive the wording, relative nobodies? How did Bielsa manage it last season, and so on and so forth. We need upgrades in midfield, there is absolutely no question about that, but what we have here currently is so far below the bar of what they are capable of that people who have no horse in the Ole in/out race are starting to get anxious.

For me personally, the most frustrating thing of all is the thought we're as close to disbanding as building on top of what we've amassed. Pogba, Cavani and Ronaldo could all be off into the sunset if this season falls through. That amount of quality is not going to be replaced in a single summer, and then we've taken 3 steps back and 2 forward for a net gain of being weaker than we were, once more. This Ole in/out stuff should not have precedence over what is good and beneficial for the club.

Good post.

 

[FatTails]

GNev has no authority to criticise any manager given his own managerial failings. Even less from the fact that he then ran away instead of trying again lower down the pyramid.

This forum would close down if opinions only came from qualified people.

 

[Gazza]

Everyone who has been ‘proved’ right because Gary Neville said something? Same probably usually hate Neville too.

Do you know what “glee” means? It’s not that.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Even if that were true, the likes of Villa have done a full 180 in how they are playing football this season compared to last and executing it like they've played that was for seasons all with inferior personnel almost to a man, when compared to us. I'm seeing instant transformations across the league from one style of play to another as coaches decide - of course, Tuchel getting a tune out of his team almost immediately last season being a beacon for this. We should just remove names and status for a moment and consider how or why these coaches are able to do that - how is Potter playing that kind of football with, forgive the wording, relative nobodies? How did Bielsa manage it last season, and so on and so forth. We need upgrades in midfield, there is absolutely no question about that, but what we have here currently is so far below the bar of what they are capable of that people who have no horse in the Ole in/out race are starting to get anxious.

For me personally, the most frustrating thing of all is the thought we're as close to disbanding as building on top of what we've amassed. Pogba, Cavani and Ronaldo could all be off into the sunset if this season falls through. That amount of quality is not going to be replaced in a single summer, and then we've taken 3 steps back and 2 forward for a net gain of being weaker than we were, once more. This Ole in/out stuff should not have precedence over what is good and beneficial for the club.

The bold part is a frustrating thing for me as well. While we're all here still debating whether the man is actually good enough and STILL not knowing the answer after 4 seasons (although I have a pretty clear view on it) there is a sense of great waste. As you said, Ronaldo, Cavani, and Pogab could all be gone in the next season or two and it just feels like there's a distinct possibility that we won't extract the best out of them.

Not to get too fecking dramatic here, but it would be a bit of a tragedy if we managed to get Ronaldo back but didn't really capitalize on it.

 

[DanNistelrooy]

Simply put, Ole has no pedigree and no track record despite the lack of pedigree. Look at our rivals: Pep, Klopp and Tuchel - all did it before elsewhere. Ole managed and failed with Cardiff and did not much in the Norwegian league.

He was the best option for our owners who after the disasters that were Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho needed something to placate the fans and who better than an ex player with a baby face? I don't see it happening with OGS, sadly.

Of course everyone's entitled to doubt Ole's pedigree but "not much in Norwegian League"........ he won Molde their first 2 league titles in the club's entire history!!

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I might have to look up some of Gary's old Valencia games, see how the main man done it.

What and that should preclude him having an opinion on the club he loves?
By the same criterion, no one on here should be posting opinions about what’s good or bad at the club because I’m assuming none of us have coached anywhere near top level clubs.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

The bold part is a frustrating thing for me as well. While we're all here still debating whether the man is actually good enough and STILL not knowing the answer after 4 seasons (although I have a pretty clear view on it) there is a sense of great waste. As you said, Ronaldo, Cavani, and Pogab could all be gone in the next season or two and it just feels like there's a distinct possibility that we won't extract the best out of them.

Not to get too fecking dramatic here, but it would be a bit of a tragedy if we managed to get Ronaldo back but didn't really capitalize on it.

Cavani is going anyway and Pogba’s intention no clearer now than it was when Raiola came out with his toxic comments.

 

[Gazza]

The people frothing at the mouth with laughing smilies and a sense of yes!! to say I told you so in this thread because Neville came out with some puff piece is remarkable.

I’ve said my opinion on things just a day or so ago in other threads, sorry my posting doesn’t reach your lofty standards in this thread.

Some people see what they want to see and not what’s actually happening in front of their eyes. You’re one of those.

 

[RUCK4444]

So you think that only a good coach can see if a team has a clear and effective play style? Follow patterns?

No, I just don’t think it’s a fact at all.

There are problems in the balance of the team and lack of a stable midfield, but in general we score and create lots of chances, I don’t believe you do that in the absence of patterns of play.

 

[Bobcat]

This whole "style" debate is a bit daft imo.

In terms of style or identity or whatever you want to call it, imo only Pep stands out as having a very defined signature among the top teams. What is Liverpools style? Pressing high? Not much of a style really, and there are plenty of teams who does that.

I like Neville as a pundit, but hes talking out his arse here, as does several other pundits and journos. Having a "style" is entirely dependant on if you are successful in applying it on the pitch and whether or not it brings results. Neville also has a pretty bad managerial career behind him, so he of all people should know that talking about style is easy, actually implementing on the pitch is another matter completely

When Arteta was first appointed at Arsenal, pundits were falling over themselves to praise his "style", but once the results dried up and Arsenal had trouble even registering a shot on target, all that talk of Artetas style were nowhere to be seen.

 

[RUCK4444]

What and that should preclude him having an opinion on the club he loves?
By the same criterion, no one on here should be posting opinions about what’s good or bad at the club because I’m assuming none of us have coached anywhere near top level clubs.

We shouldn’t because we’re not qualified to if we’re honest.

The difference with Gary is he’s in a position to heap pressure on the team.

He’s entitled to say what he wants but seeing as though he’s in the game and has managed himself it’s fair to question his own critique against what he achieved. He was telling Keano the other day he despises the thought of management and tactics/the dressing room etc yet he’s telling the world we’re not good enough.

But whatever, people slag him off one minute and then because he uses a buzzword that’s used here we’re now using it as proof we have no ‘patterns of play.’

 

[JPRouve]

No, I just don’t think it’s a fact at all.

There are problems in the balance of the team and lack of a stable midfield, but in general we score and create lots of chances, I don’t believe you do that in the absence of patterns of play.

You will do that if you have significantly more talent than the opposition. At this level the difference between having a drilled team and a not drilled team isn't that you won't create chances but that you won't optimize your team and that they will generally play at a level that is lower than the sum of its parts.

United do not have clear patterns of play, that is barely debatable but we have excellent players like Pogba, Bruno Fernandes, Greenwood or Ronaldo that have the ability to make the difference individually.

 

[RUCK4444]

This whole "style" debate is a bit daft imo.

In terms of style or identity or whatever you want to call it, imo only Pep stands out as having a very defined signature among the top teams. What is Liverpools style? Pressing high? Not much of a style really, and there are plenty of teams who does that.

I like Neville as a pundit, but hes talking out his arse here, as does several other pundits and journos. Having a "style" is entirely dependant on if you are successful in applying it on the pitch and whether or not it brings results. Neville also has a pretty bad managerial career behind him, so he of all people should know that talking about style is easy, actually implementing on the pitch is another matter completely

When Arteta was first appointed at Arsenal, pundits were falling over themselves to praise his "style", but once the results dried up and Arsenal had trouble even registering a shot on target, all that talk of Artetas style were nowhere to be seen.

Agree.

 

[Joseunited]

Michael Carrick is never mentioned too, what game was he watching on Saturday, must be a shocking coach. Nowhere to hide now and Mc Fred isn't going to save Ole, needs to stop relying on a moment and start coaching this team. Basic things like keeping shape and ball retention, not playing a back 6 even you have Maguire and Varane. Controlling the game especially at home to shite like Villa.

Villa aren't shite but we should have controlled the game and won.Sadly,while Ole is in charge we'll also be saying this when the likes of Brentford come to Old Trafford and easily keep us at arms reach.
If things don't start to improve it won't be long before everyone is baying for blood.

 

[Plant0x84]

everyone on here will never even manage a professional club unlike Neville so gives us even less authority to criticise Ole going off that comment. He's a pundit, maybe he did fail as a manager but he's not wrong about us with them comments.

Not the same and you know it. Fan opinion is a different thing to a well connected and influential pundit broadcasting on national media.

Why? Knowing something and getting it implemented from others is two separate things.

He was doing the same role at Valencia that Ole has at United. He was a disaster and has vowed never to manage another team. As a manager if you don’t implement either by delegation or directly then you’re not doing the job right. Olé is doing the job right and has our team moving in the right direction.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Makes more sense than your reply. Dunno which bit you are struggling with. Would you appoint GNev if we sacked Ole tomorrow? Of course you wouldn’t because he was an absolute flop in Spain. So why then would we take his opinions into account?

I hope there is no criticism from you of any player / manager / CEO / ref / <insert profession> on the caf

Nope! I support my team. Referees however are fair game because they are generally all terrible and deserve criticism.

This forum would close down if opinions only came from qualified people.

See my first answer.

 

[Flytan]

Not the same and you know it. Fan opinion is a different thing to a well connected and influential pundit broadcasting on national media.

He was doing the same role at Valencia that Ole has at United. He was a disaster and has vowed never to manage another team. As a manager if you don’t implement either by delegation or directly then you’re not doing the job right. Olé is doing the job right and has our team moving in the right direction.

Makes more sense than your reply. Dunno which bit you are struggling with. Would you appoint GNev if we sacked Ole tomorrow? Of course you wouldn’t because he was an absolute flop in Spain.

Nope! I support my team. Referees however are fair game because they are generally all terrible and deserve criticism.

See my first answer.

So you're allowed to criticize someone as long as you think they "are generally terrible". Damn guess it's free game for me to criticize.

 

[Robbie Boy]

But whatever, people slag him off one minute and then because he uses a buzzword that’s used here we’re now using it as proof we have no ‘patterns of play.’

Or, maybe the childish reactions and frothing at the mouth at anyone mentioning 'patters' or 'patterns of play', was just that; a wee bit sad and childish all along. Of course, it's a phrase that has become over used and used out of context, which tends to happen. Some talk out of their arse when they use it, but I've seen good posters go to the bother of putting effort into explaining what it means. It doesn't seem to matter though, as the echo chamber in the general will continue to demean the phrase, as if it's alien language.

Funny that phrases like 'rebuild' and 'cultural reset' have been done to death, and used out of context, but these are ok because they suit one side of the agenda. At the end of the day, they're generally just buzz words used to deflect actual discussion. I've never seen the issue with the phrase patterns of play, and I think some have shown themselves up to be quite childish about it. I'm not big on tactics myself, so I stay out of the discussion, but there's plenty on here who have a good grasp of what they're talking about.

 

[Plant0x84]

So you're allowed to criticize someone as long as you think they "are generally terrible". Damn guess it's free game for me to criticize.

If you believe something to be worthy of criticism then you’re not going to praise it are you? I’d have thought that was obvious.
I’m not sure I see your point, unless you are being deliberately flippant?

 

[RUCK4444]

You will do that if you have significantly more talent than the opposition. At this level the difference between having a drilled team and a not drilled team isn't that you won't create chances but that you won't optimize your team and that they will generally play at a level that is lower than the sum of its parts.

United do not have clear patterns of play, that is barely debatable but we have excellent players like Pogba, Bruno Fernandes, Greenwood or Ronaldo that have the ability to make the difference individually.

So I don’t subscribe to this notion that we have zero patterns of play for a multitude of reasons, none by the way absolve the manager of any blame/critique (which is what most Ole-out posters will claim of any poster like myself who doesn’t agree with the narrative.)

I don’t believe a team with zero patterns of play finishes second in this league whilst out scoring the entire league for the majority of the season until being overtaken by the ultimate champions late on (for goals.).

I don’t believe a team like Liverpool, who I’m sure you all claim have brilliant/elite ‘patterns of play’ finish behind us last season through losing a defender. Not unless a CB stops you from attacking.

Not in this league is that possible without a coached team, without clear patterns of play and drilled attacking play. It just doesn’t happen, even this season I think we’ve twice beaten the amount of attempts at goal in a single half (or something to that effect.).

Individual talent isn’t enough and we didn’t even have the most talented team in the league last season.

I’m a tad surprised you fully subscribe to this one Rouve if I’m honest.

 

[devilish]

So I don’t subscribe to this notion that we have zero patterns of play for a multitude of reasons, none by the way absolve the manager of any blame/critique (which is what most Ole-out posters will claim of any poster like myself who doesn’t agree with the narrative.)

I don’t believe a team with zero patterns of play finishes second in this league whilst out scoring the entire league for the majority of the season until being overtaken by the ultimate champions late on (for goals.).

I don’t believe a team like Liverpool, who I’m sure you all claim have brilliant/elite ‘patterns of play’ finish behind us last season through losing a defender. Not unless a CB stops you from attacking.

Not in this league is that possible without a coached team, without clear patterns of play and drilled attacking play. It just doesn’t happen, even this season I think we’ve twice beaten the amount of attempts at goal in a single half (or something to that effect.).

Individual talent isn’t enough and we didn’t even have the most talented team in the league last season.

I’m a tad surprised you fully subscribe to this one Rouve if I’m honest.

you should rely less on belief and more on what you see with both your eyes.

 

[Alvaro Maestre]

Ole just needs to tell the players to pass the ball when they are in better scoring positions, instead of being themselves, enjoy themselves and score themselves.

 

[Flytan]

So I don’t subscribe to this notion that we have zero patterns of play for a multitude of reasons, none by the way absolve the manager of any blame/critique (which is what most Ole-out posters will claim of any poster like myself who doesn’t agree with the narrative.)

I don’t believe a team with zero patterns of play finishes second in this league whilst out scoring the entire league for the majority of the season until being overtaken by the ultimate champions late on (for goals.).

I don’t believe a team like Liverpool, who I’m sure you all claim have brilliant/elite ‘patterns of play’ finish behind us last season through losing a defender. Not unless a CB stops you from attacking.

Not in this league is that possible without a coached team, without clear patterns of play and drilled attacking play. It just doesn’t happen, even this season I think we’ve twice beaten the amount of attempts at goal in a single half (or something to that effect.).

Individual talent isn’t enough and we didn’t even have the most talented team in the league last season.

I’m a tad surprised you fully subscribe to this one Rouve if I’m honest.

So then why do so many pundits/fans/ex-managers/ex-players say we don't? Is there some grand conspiracy going on? I don't get it, it's pretty obvious to most people who watch games that we don't play as a unit, just watch how the players move on the pitch compared to well coached teams. And yes, Liverpool finished below us having a bad season, but they've won the UCL and the league recently so having a bad season is well within reason for a manager who has the pedigree of being elite. Ole doesn't. He's failed in the premier league at Cardiff in an embarrassing manner and his titles in Norway are essentially worthless. Not to mention he completely dismisses "patterns of play" and other buzzwords (I agree they are annoying) in interviews when asked about them and has began to blame refereeing for his teams' struggle. Also Jose finished second with a much worse team. We all thought his football was abysmal despite finishing second, it's the same for Ole. The way he plays is not sustainable. You cannot just "go out and play" and expect to consistently beat top teams. Look at how bad we were against them last year.

Like I'd like one single answer from someone who still supports Ole: If he was fired would he get a job at a top 10 club in the EPL after us? Do you actually believe he would? If the answer is no (it is), then why do you think he's qualified to remain our manager? It's nepotism. He's a part of the manchester united family and fans give him more leeway than he has earned.

 

[Thiagoal]

Ole has done a fabulous job in changing the atmosphere at the club and getting in a very solid squad of players that should be challenging for the league. If we’d kept with Mourinho or appointed someone else then we may not be sat in such a promising position as we are today.

However, it seems clear now that he doesn’t have the nouse and coaching ability to compete at the very top level of the game.

It seems odd that he hasn’t reached out and appointed a top class coach as that could give us the edge we are missing. SAF realised he needed to progress in the 00’s and appointed the likes of Queiroz and Meulensteen. Ole needs to reach out before it’s too late

 

[RUCK4444]

you should rely less on belief and more on what you see with both your eyes.

Yes that’s how I form my opinion. On watching every game, the many chances we create and largely the free scoring team we have been.

I take that information and try to fit it with a narrative that we are incable of creating attacking patterns to our play and I come to the conclusion that the two are incompatible.

I do this by not purely absorbing mindless rhetoric on the internet

 

[Polar]

Its not really rocket science tbf, 90% of the fanbase has been saying the same thing for a while now.

God knows how you have calculated your estimate. Record on this forum

What are people moaning about? We are equal with Chelsea, City and one point behind Liverpool. Clubs with magnificent or highly rated managers: Wizard Pep, Magician Klopp and Master Tuchel. In strong contrast to our own novice or trainee manager, “Ole the beginner”,

I’m also very disappointed with our performance against AV, but we don’t have to go many days back before it was fantastic (Newcastle).

Right now to many boys are crying wolf to loud. Recommend people to save some negative ammo or volume until we’re out of the title race. One day your time will likely come.

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

I'm not sure I agree with this. You can't implement a style of play that is your ideology if the players don't have the capability to follow that.

I don't think we can say with any degree of certainty that Ole wants a double pivot as his style of play. I think he does this because he knows the capabilities and its worked well for him as a whole. I think he hasn't prioritised changing it because he has probably taken the view a solid defence wins titles, I.e. you can't score if you can't beat the defence. On the flip of that if you score more you'll win, hence Sancho and Ronaldo.

There have been enough rumours to suggest a midfielder is still on the list, but overlooked in Ole weighing up priorities. To some extent it makes sense, but Fred has dropped form and McTominay is not quite developing as well as required.

The fact Ole was so keen to keep VdB suggests Ole has ideas of what he wants to achieve, but can't currently do it.

As I say this im convincing myself Ole needs more time, but the bit that keeps me from wanting to give it is because you can't always have the best squad for every position and Ole could have swapped tools like Lingard out and a DM in.

What SAF did phenomenally well was to make it work regardless of what he had. He'd go out of the box if he had to. We had the Da Silva twins in midfield, P Neville, O'Shea, Giggs, Beckham and the list goes on.

SAF didn't just persist with a midfield not working, he'd try something different until he could get the resource he needed. Ironically it could be these other players that have meant Ole isn't prioritising midfield.

Ole saw SAF make it work by focusing on CBs, CFs and wingers. The problem is the game has moved on and the midfield is the engine of the team more than ever. The game doesn't live on the wings the way it used to.

You make some great points. The last one I think is particularly true and actually Ole’s achilles heel.

Regarding the style of play. I think we have two types of managers. The purist and ones who adapt slightly. Purist would be those like Pep and Biesla or Previously Wenger, those that adapt would be the ones like Klopp, Conte, Tunchel. But all apply their style from the very first day and it is noticeable within a few matches. Someone like Klopp will change it up a bit to suit the league and his players after a season or so, the purist live and die by it and any changes they make is mostly evolution over several seasons. Another category is the LVG, and as I’ve recently learned from a Leicester fan on here Rodgers, they implement an attacking style but then a heavy defeat will see them abandon it.

I agree about Ole seeing what worked under SAF & thinking that will still work. My reason for saying that is because in his one interview about midfielders he seemed about about the modern focus on 6, 8, 10s etc he said midfielders should simply be able to defend and attack and used examples from 35-15 years ago in Robson and Keane. But really it’s not a modern day focus. In Europe a 3 man midfield has been the thing for decades.

So i think it’s pretty naive of him as even SAF started to realise the importance of midfielders controlling the match. First after Redondo destroyed United at OT for RM, I think in 2000 and then definitely after Barca battered us in 2009. It’s something SAF spoke about a lot and was the reason for signing Veron and hiring Quiroz.

 

[dove]

I mean I live in the United States, so going to games isn't really an option. But if Ole wasn't a manchester united player in his career, he would be viewed equally out of his depth as Moyes. Granted Ole hides it better (until recently, he's cracking now).

I am in Ole out camp for over 2 years now but he is definitely not as bad as Moyes was. Moyes took the champions down to 7th place... Although Ole is quite clearly not good enough for us he still manages to achieve the very bare minimum target of finishing in TOP 4 so comparing him with the utter failure that Moyes was is a bit unfair.

 

[devilish]

Yes that’s how I form my opinion. On watching every game, the many chances we create and largely the free scoring team we have been.

I take that information and try to fit it with a narrative that we are incable of creating attacking patterns to our play and I come to the conclusion that the two are incompatible.

I do this by not purely absorbing mindless rhetoric on the internet

Then you're seeing something most people including former players like Gary Neville can't see. In my opinion Ole's team is all about defensive football (7 out of 11 players are defensive minded) and hoping that individual brilliance + luck would bail him out.

 

[Zlatan 7]

[

So I don’t subscribe to this notion that we have zero patterns of play for a multitude of reasons, none by the way absolve the manager of any blame/critique (which is what most Ole-out posters will claim of any poster like myself who doesn’t agree with the narrative.)

I don’t believe a team with zero patterns of play finishes second in this league whilst out scoring the entire league for the majority of the season until being overtaken by the ultimate champions late on (for goals.).

I don’t believe a team like Liverpool, who I’m sure you all claim have brilliant/elite ‘patterns of play’ finish behind us last season through losing a defender. Not unless a CB stops you from attacking.

Not in this league is that possible without a coached team, without clear patterns of play and drilled attacking play. It just doesn’t happen, even this season I think we’ve twice beaten the amount of attempts at goal in a single half (or something to that effect.).

Individual talent isn’t enough and we didn’t even have the most talented team in the league last season.

I’m a tad surprised you fully subscribe to this one Rouve if I’m honest.

fully agree with this post

 

[RedorDead21]

I certainly see the similarities, but:

A) No matter what issues it had, that team had an x-factor that this team won't. It had Ferguson.

B) While United'd achievements were good in Fergie's latter years, I think we'll all agree it wasn't his most impressive team or football. Surely we should be aiming higher?

C) Football has evolved since then. Pep and Klopp came in and raised the bar. We need to do the same rather than think that what worked in 2013 is fine for 2021, as it's not enough anymore.

Yeah wasn’t it Anchelotti mocking Fergie before his Milan team beat us by saying no need to watch videos of man United everyone knows how they play….on the one hand saying we had a defo style of play whilst saying Fergie had no real tactics other than that.

 

[JPRouve]

fully agree with this post

@RUCK4444

If this doesn't convince you of your mistake, nothing will.

 

[LARulz]

God knows how you have calculated your estimate. Record on this forum

What are people moaning about? We are equal with Chelsea, City and one point behind Liverpool. Clubs with magnificent or highly rated managers: Wizard Pep, Magician Klopp and Master Tuchel. In strong contrast to our own novice or trainee manager, “Ole the beginner”,

I’m also very disappointed with our performance against AV, but we don’t have to go many days back before it was fantastic (Newcastle).

Right now to many boys are crying wolf to loud. Recommend people to save some negative ammo or volume until we’re out of the title race. One day your time will likely come.

City, Chelsea and Liverpool have all played tougher games/against each other

We dropped points to Southampton, Wolves and Villa. We should have taken a good lead into those tougher games so we have some leeway. Now if they beat us and we can't get our shit together against weaker teams then we're out of it

 

[Acheron]

He's right, he's being really mild and gentle but he's pretty straight forward in pointing a lack of defined style from the team. I mean the manager has been for quite a while so at some point he should be expected to deliver results. The standard for a club like Manchester United should be higher than being ok with top 4 finishes and getting embarrased in the UCL. I seriously doubt Ole is a top manager that can do something of note but at the same time I think the team has a lot of potential and maybe they can carry the team with their quality despite the lack of style and poor management. It's still pretty early in the season but the standards should be higher and the management needs to be critical and fix it while they're still at the top of the table.

 

[Polar]

City, Chelsea and Liverpool have all played tougher games/against each other

We dropped points to Southampton, Wolves and Villa. We should have taken a good lead into those tougher games so we have some leeway. Now if they beat us and we can't get our shit together against weaker teams then we're out of it

You are definitely right, but we don’t have to take the grief in advance. Our statistic against top teams have been pretty good so far.

 

[Zlatan 7]

@RUCK4444

If this doesn't convince you of your mistake, nothing will.

Well done