And? Your reply is any better?
Neville - ‘’no style of play’’
- Thread starter IrishRedDevil
- Start date
My reply to the thread? Yes, infinitely as I contributed to the topic at hand. My reply to you? Yes, it's calling out wummy behaviour.
I’m beginning to come round to the belief that Ole needs someone with greater experience as a coach to top level sides. These two are obviously good with youth but their influence and limitations are being exposed
The people frothing at the mouth with laughing smilies and a sense of yes!! to say I told you so in this thread because Neville came out with some puff piece is remarkable.
I’ve said my opinion on things just a day or so ago in other threads, sorry my posting doesn’t reach your lofty standards in this thread.
It makes many of the arguments for Ole redundant because, at the very worst, our midfielders are par with what they come up against, but are routinely played off the park, or, if you took away our name and standing as a club, look like players a few rungs down on what they actually are.
Young Boys - a team whose midfield would fetch how much in an open market, and go to what calibre of teams across Europe? - absolutely matched us at the very least, and made us look amateurish at worst, and you can go through a number of inferior sides where this has happened to us where exactly the personnel we have here right now, without need for a transfer window, should be comfortably outdoing these sides. As you say, these are not elite midfields we're up against, they are sides who don't have a prospective player a title-challenging side would want for the most part. They are not sides our midfielders should be looking lost at sea against.
At base ends, that is all coaching and you have to ask what you think other coaches/managers could do with the personnel we have now or if what we see is the summit of the collective midfielders we have. If we want to control games, a foothold in midfield is paramount, and that's not with us having to spend copious amounts of money in January whilst hanging on for dear life in the interim.
We cannot mock Pep as a chequebook manager if our own can only get a tune out of the best players on the planet. The job of a manager is to make the team stronger than the sum of its parts and get a tune out of the personnel he fields, even if they are not top tier players. The pressure is on now because the squad we have can be matched by few in the whole of Europe (read, world) and expectations rise in accordance with that.
The problem is, when a major department of your team like centre midfield isn't working, it forces you to make other adjustments.
If your midfield is not press resistant, if it cannot take the ball, turn a man and open up space then you have to find a different way to play.
For us, that means playing through the fullbacks. When we have Luke Shaw we're okay on the left. However, on the right....going back to Wolves, who would you rather build your attacks through, Semedo or Wan-Bissaka?
When I say we have a midtable team, maybe I'm being harsh. I think Wan-Bissaka, all around is a better defender than Semedo. However, they're at least comparable when you start playing off their plusses and minuses. That's my point.
Our squad is not as good as people think it is. The limits of our squad have a big effect on the kind of football we can play. It can and should be better. We should be asking Ole to do more. However, I am sceptical that a new coach will be able to get that much more out of the squad we have. Further changes will be needed.
Kind of hypocritical criticising others but contributing to the negative atmosphere. But as you were. They're not my 'lofty standards' by the way, pretty sure there's a big general push on quality control.
Do you froth at the mouth while laughing? Best to get that checked.
shame there’s not a general push on the constant criticising and nonsense posted by people saying the team is obviously not coached, Just told to go out and play. A team in the premier league finished 2nd last year, 4th so far this year but obviously not coached? Yeah I agree I’d clamp down on posts of that quality.
There is. There was literally a tonne of quality control warnings handed out in the post match thread. Has to apply to both sides though.
Simply put, Ole has no pedigree and no track record despite the lack of pedigree. Look at our rivals: Pep, Klopp and Tuchel - all did it before elsewhere. Ole managed and failed with Cardiff and did not much in the Norwegian league.
He was the best option for our owners who after the disasters that were Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho needed something to placate the fans and who better than an ex player with a baby face? I don't see it happening with OGS, sadly.
He was the best option for our owners who after the disasters that were Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho needed something to placate the fans and who better than an ex player with a baby face? I don't see it happening with OGS, sadly.
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but yes I agree, I read this thread this morning and could sense the happiness in people that Neville had said similar to what they wanted to hear, hence the happy Monday post. Great day and thread for them. Maybe I shouldn’t have lowered myself, but then ‘wummy’ is perfectly fine for some posters I suppose.
I read them in this thread. Not the match day thread, very rare I go into a match day thread.
but yes I agree, I read this thread this morning and could sense the happiness in people that Neville had said similar to what they wanted to hear, hence the happy Monday post. Great day and thread for them. Maybe I shouldn’t have lowered myself, but then ‘wummy’ is perfectly fine for some posters I suppose.
Even if that were true, the likes of Villa have done a full 180 in how they are playing football this season compared to last and executing it like they've played that was for seasons all with inferior personnel almost to a man, when compared to us. I'm seeing instant transformations across the league from one style of play to another as coaches decide - of course, Tuchel getting a tune out of his team almost immediately last season being a beacon for this. We should just remove names and status for a moment and consider how or why these coaches are able to do that - how is Potter playing that kind of football with, forgive the wording, relative nobodies? How did Bielsa manage it last season, and so on and so forth. We need upgrades in midfield, there is absolutely no question about that, but what we have here currently is so far below the bar of what they are capable of that people who have no horse in the Ole in/out race are starting to get anxious.
For me personally, the most frustrating thing of all is the thought we're as close to disbanding as building on top of what we've amassed. Pogba, Cavani and Ronaldo could all be off into the sunset if this season falls through. That amount of quality is not going to be replaced in a single summer, and then we've taken 3 steps back and 2 forward for a net gain of being weaker than we were, once more. This Ole in/out stuff should not have precedence over what is good and beneficial for the club.
Can you contribute to this thread with something constructive or leave it alone please?
You're beginning to come around to the belief? Dude do you watch the games? In been obvious for years
I’m having a discussion with another poster.
I’ll leave it now.
yes, your posts are great. Good read.
Doubt if anyone’s happy with what Neville says. He’s fickle to a degree but I do feel he wants the best for Utd. So I think it’s putting it into perspective and not saying what fans want to hear. He did say that Utd need to find a pattern that’s consistent, don’t think that is something to disagree with.
I do for my sins but it’s the up and down nature of the performances that have left me somewhat confused. One week we look to get it right the next we don’t.
I’m sorry but it hasn’t been that simple and as obvious as it was with Moyes, LVG and Jose
Michael Carrick is never mentioned too, what game was he watching on Saturday, must be a shocking coach. Nowhere to hide now and Mc Fred isn't going to save Ole, needs to stop relying on a moment and start coaching this team. Basic things like keeping shape and ball retention, not playing a back 6 even you have Maguire and Varane. Controlling the game especially at home to shite like Villa.
Not the match day thread, the post match thread.
I didn't mean to have a go. But I'm kind of sick of certain posters - not you - spouting how they want to improve the forum, but seem to think they can wum, themselves.
We all want the bullshit eradicated, but it has to be a joint effort. My guess is, the next few months may get worse for us, so let's at least try to keep things reasonable. You're a good poster, so no need to engage in it. If the level headed posters put their views on Ole aside, accept other stances a-bit more and try some rational debate, it'll make things that bit easier. There's a lot of negativity surrounding the club at the minute, and it's all a bit disheartening given the positivity around the place at the start of the season. Be nice if some good discussion could take place on here, instead of yet more slagging matches etc.
I'll give you it's better than LVG at it's worst, but Mourinho (outside of when he sabotaged his job) we played better (maybe not more free flowing but better). As for Moyes it looks pretty similar to me, like the players have no clue what they're doing.
I don’t think you went to any of Moyes games. If you really believe that then your in the depths of despair
I mean I live in the United States, so going to games isn't really an option. But if Ole wasn't a manchester united player in his career, he would be viewed equally out of his depth as Moyes. Granted Ole hides it better (until recently, he's cracking now).
It's a talking point, so people are going to discuss; you can filter out white noise like with any topic in any thread, there's really no need to be up in arms in here.
We've obviously got a situation on our hands when even Neville is making his concern public.
Well he’s certainly living up to the billing right now.
Think we’ll know more after Villarreal. Result needed and a good performance. Not sure a lucky win will cut it
He made the same concern last season, it’s not new
Your last paragraph is a very good point that I didn't consider. If Ole doesn't find a way to make this team fire on all cylinder then we are bound to require a mini rebuild because the players that are going to decline or leave can't be replaced with similar players, our approach will have to change no matter what.
I might have to look up some of Gary's old Valencia games, see how the main man done it.
It is because this is the new, bolstered team with genuine world class players brought into the fold, which alone raises expectations and heaps pressure on Ole to deliver with them. Most excuses will now fall on deaf ears because we're a couple of first team players away from being a mammoth side... on paper.
There's an elevation in stakes this season, and I think the tension is becoming palpable despite us not even being in October yet.
It's something that really bothers me because the perpetual state of rebuild is its own kind of torture. And with a successful season, I think we can finally rid ourselves of it as what we have then wants to stick around and give us foundations to complete this rebuild at last.
Maybe what these two need is a manager with better, clearer, style to implement.
It's hardly as if they decide how we play, and Solskjaer just shows up to the match and suffers for their bad work.
Ole at the wheel spent 200m in defence (Varane, Telles, Maguire and AWB). He spent around 100m on RW (Sancho, Diallo and Pellistri) and he added VDB as well. If he wanted he could have diverted that money in CM which he failed to do. Meanwhile he can also play a certain Pogba in CM. Its evident that CM was not Ole at the wheel's priority and that he's quite happy with McFred.
I swear people post stupid shit like this all the time. You don't have to have superior knowledge to someone to have an opinion about something (especially when it's this glaringly obvious)
My thoughts too, especially about the rebuild. If we don't have a successful season, the rebuild has to be rebooted again
Soon the "we have a young team" argument will come. Hint: we don't.What rebuild?!
He has a team of superstars at his disposal for Christ sake.
If you have a balanced team with very young, players in their prime and older players, I believe that you are in a state of constant mini-rebuild which is a good thing compared to the complete overhaul situation. Now the issue is that you need a manager and coaches that have a tune of what they have at all time. And that's where I have always had doubts about Ole, I like the fact that he managed the team overhaul very well but I never sensed that he was a winning manager, someone that is able to tweak a team and put players in very specific roles that makes the team better. Everything is on default mode, if that makes sense.
Glaringly obvious, I see.
So you think that only a good coach can see if a team has a clear and effective play style? Follow patterns?
I’m fully on board that we look very disjointed all of the time and sometimes completely clueless. We appear to rely on individual moments of quality.
However, please tell me what the style of play was from 2009-2013 where we competed for the league each season? It seems very similar to this with the cut throat, counter-attacking style. Some of the games we had last season were eerily similar to those late Ferguson days.
I will be satisfied if, and am confident that we will, go on a run better than the 1 loss in 28 games we managed in the middle of last season. In recent memory we’ve had garbage teams compared to now and we should accept that we aren’t yet the swashbuckling real deal, but we will win a lot of games because of the quality we have.
We also have had much more shambolic starts under Ole and have recovered to finish pretty high in the league. It’s very early.
However, please tell me what the style of play was from 2009-2013 where we competed for the league each season? It seems very similar to this with the cut throat, counter-attacking style. Some of the games we had last season were eerily similar to those late Ferguson days.
I will be satisfied if, and am confident that we will, go on a run better than the 1 loss in 28 games we managed in the middle of last season. In recent memory we’ve had garbage teams compared to now and we should accept that we aren’t yet the swashbuckling real deal, but we will win a lot of games because of the quality we have.
We also have had much more shambolic starts under Ole and have recovered to finish pretty high in the league. It’s very early.