It's a terrible idea. Surprised at Wenger not getting that it doesn't resolve anything.
New offside proposal
- Thread starter golden_blunder
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Also, wouldn't you need Birdseye view now to verify if part of the attacker is on-side? It's would hard to tell side on.
The problem is that once you introduce the precision of VAR there are always going to be hairline decisions - it has to be an absolute binary of onside or offside with tiny margins to be determined. You are drawing a line somewhere, whether it's about daylight or shirt sleeve positions, and there is no margin of interpretation, no subjective allowance. The only way I can see to speed up the process is to reduce the parts of the body that need to be taken into consideration - and logically that would be the primary scoring tools, the feet. No more is the attackers chest further forward than the defenders bum. Just feet.
Introducing a fixed margin error would be better. Like defining a max distance between the last defender and the attacker to be considered offside to make things clear.
You see lots of players wearing the gps trackers/heart rate monitors under their shirts. I don't know why each player doesn't simply wear a chip that determines their position on the field. That way, if they are closer to the goal when than at least two opposition chips, they are offside. It could then be completely automated – or if there was a review it would just be to 'rewind' until the ball is payed, and you woul dhave the location of every chip and could then dictate onside or offside.
On the face of it, it seems like a terrible idea.
It will be interesting to see the impact but it may make football a bit more equitable - as in the teams that play high, typically the stronger teams, will concede more goals or will be forced to play deeper and the smaller teams that already play deep will remain relatively unimpacted.
It will be interesting to see the impact but it may make football a bit more equitable - as in the teams that play high, typically the stronger teams, will concede more goals or will be forced to play deeper and the smaller teams that already play deep will remain relatively unimpacted.
Loads more goals probably, but still need to draw a line and potentially debate all that. The frame rate and automation is what the focus should be on. Computers can do such incredible things now they should have a system where the computer does a quick analysis and says yes or no.
Also, nightmare for defenders, they would have forward players out of site on their side, dangle a leg back and gone. Can only imagine more teams would start to defend with deeper to try manage it.
Measure off side on the boots only and improve the tech.
Also, nightmare for defenders, they would have forward players out of site on their side, dangle a leg back and gone. Can only imagine more teams would start to defend with deeper to try manage it.
Measure off side on the boots only and improve the tech.
This is actually a really good point. I was mainly thinking in terms of through balls to strikers beating a high line, but this is much more impactful. Basically the attacker can start nearer to the goal than the defender. That's a huge advantage.
I'd like to see it trialled, it could make holding a high line harder and stop all modern coaches copying Peps system...
Pace would certainly be more valuable with the extra meter leeway in being off.
Pace would certainly be more valuable with the extra meter leeway in being off.
Yes exactly. And we seem to have forgotten that level is inside.
But in reality, this means that only the hand and arm can be excluded doesn't it?
Seems like a pointless and possibly more detrimental than useful proposal to me.
Pointless, because it changes nothing about lines being drawn and VARs reviewing which body part of which player was where in the exact moment the ball was passed. The only thing that changes is where the lines are drawn.
His statement “That will sort it out and you will no longer have decisions about millimetres and a fraction of the attacker being in front of the defensive line.” sounds like a joke in that regard, because those millimetre decisions, the discussion if there this or that frame is the right one to use, if that part of a player is still on the line or not, those won't be gone at all. Neither will contentious VAR actions, or the absence of action being contentious.
Detrimental, because it encourages kick-and-rush hoofball by giving a huge advantage to the attacker and disincentivizes high lines and offsides traps, meaning that many teams will just react by playing way deeper and more defensive than they do now. That might well overall result in slower games with less goals.
I can also see diving being encouraged, because attackers get a huge advantage over the defenders in free kick situations under Wenger's proposed nonsense.
So what's actually the point of the proposal? How would it even improve the game? I don't see it. It is not like the game is, on average, slow or lacking goals. Last season's EPL had the highest average goals per game ever at 2.85, and this season went far above that even at 3.28 goals per game.
A true improvement would be consistent and faster VAR decisions, possibly even automated offside detection similar to goalline technology. But not this proposal.
Pointless, because it changes nothing about lines being drawn and VARs reviewing which body part of which player was where in the exact moment the ball was passed. The only thing that changes is where the lines are drawn.
His statement “That will sort it out and you will no longer have decisions about millimetres and a fraction of the attacker being in front of the defensive line.” sounds like a joke in that regard, because those millimetre decisions, the discussion if there this or that frame is the right one to use, if that part of a player is still on the line or not, those won't be gone at all. Neither will contentious VAR actions, or the absence of action being contentious.
Detrimental, because it encourages kick-and-rush hoofball by giving a huge advantage to the attacker and disincentivizes high lines and offsides traps, meaning that many teams will just react by playing way deeper and more defensive than they do now. That might well overall result in slower games with less goals.
I can also see diving being encouraged, because attackers get a huge advantage over the defenders in free kick situations under Wenger's proposed nonsense.
So what's actually the point of the proposal? How would it even improve the game? I don't see it. It is not like the game is, on average, slow or lacking goals. Last season's EPL had the highest average goals per game ever at 2.85, and this season went far above that even at 3.28 goals per game.
A true improvement would be consistent and faster VAR decisions, possibly even automated offside detection similar to goalline technology. But not this proposal.
Would it really add more goals? I think it would make defences play a lot deeper, I'm not sure
Of course it won't. Defences will just have to sit far deeper or they will be torn to shreds on the counter. Think about how often players are offside but wouldn't be based on these new proposals. Think about how much difference it would make to have up to 1.5m running headstart on defenders. The only option for teams would be to sit far deeper to mitigate this. More boring games. Less goals.
I just cannot fathom how Wenger and co. have genuinely come to this idea.
So you destroy the main tactical plan of Pep and all the coaches that have followed him, which is pretty much all of them. They have to play high up or the system they use doesn't work at all.
I don't think anyone can say for sure how this change would work without it being trialed somewhere to see.
Introducing a rule across the entire sport to destroy the tactical plan of a single coach and his acolytes is simultaneously insane and the greatest compliment one could pay to said coach
I don't understand this thinking. A pinkie being offside is still offside. Imagine doing this in cricket and not giving out because their bat was a mm on the line. Or snooker where the ball only slightly missed a red.
It's ridiculous. Offside is offside.
My immediate thoughts as well and I just can’t see past it.
A line is still drawn and there can still be minimal gaps but this MIGHT make it slightly better and easier to manage
Agree with this, when does it begin and end if we start going this route? Oh only half his foot is offside?
The one somewhat objective rule in football shouldn’t be changed, however, the semi automatic offsides that happened at the World Cup would do the premier league a world of good.
You're just changing where the line is. Offside will still be offside. It's just the criteria that's being changed. Do you understand this thinking now?
This would make weaker teams more nervous and encourage more of them to sit in a low block wouldn't it? Not sure it would necessarily make games more entertaining.
Great. Count me in! The stitching on an attacker’s boot, and other such minor margins, being offside isn’t a “clear advantage”
Shocking idea. If they're going to change it, go with the feet only. Not the rest of the body. Otherwise, bring in the automation that was so successfully used at thr World Cup. It's not that hard.
Linesmen brains will need rewiring if this goes ahead. Also theoretically the view of the linesmen could easily be blocked by another player of the attacking team that is onside himself. It doesn't solve anything either. You'll still be able to be off by 1mm... (yes top leagues have VAR but should the old rules still apply to everyone else!?).
Typical Wenger idea really at this point. Can't he just enjoy retirement?
Typical Wenger idea really at this point. Can't he just enjoy retirement?
Exactly that. Way less counter attacks.
To play devil's advocate would situations like that even happen? I doubt the defending team is going to try and hold the line in the same way if this was brought in. They'd be mindful that while the attacker is ahead of them, they can't be sure if he's ahead enough to be offside so the markers would all need to drop in.
More free kicks from a similar position on the pitch would be contested aerially with much fewer resulting in an offside. That could very much be seen as a good thing when it comes to free kicks.
I don't want it anyway, and at least some of it is because I'm used to what I'm used to and this would be a huge change.
We're also in a world where heading the ball is begininng to be seen as dangerous for long-term health. This would likely create more headers, as well as clashes of heads.
I think that's how things would likely go too. Teams will stop playing for offside and offside traps are a 2-way street. Nobody thinks a team catching a player offside is exciting, although I suppose they can admire the coordination or how regimented a team is at stepping up in unison.
Offside traps fail too, and someone beating the trap can lead to big chances. If they're not looking to play offside, or least as nearly as much, then a particular type of chance from a long ball over the top or through-balls will be reduced in number.
There is a chance that with defences dropping deeper games could become more stretched and ultimately more end to end with players having more space to run into. In midfield areas in particular. Every game could be like United trying to defend counters under Ten Hag.
In some universe it could be more exciting but I don't know, could easily just be a slower game all round as you say and that would be my hunch too. Midfielders would have to learn to pace themseIves. Wouldn't like to see them take that gambleof bringing it in just in case it was detrimental to the spectacle.
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How would this fix the issue of knife edge decisions? There's still a knife edge you're just moving where it is. Not to mention the fact that whether there is daylight between two players depends as much on the angle you're observing from as it does the actual position of the two players.
Make the players wear a sensor belt and if they are offside if any bit if their belt is ahead of the defenders. Fitting players with a headmounted off/onside light probably a step too far thogh.