Yes, two sides racist and sexist vs Anti racist and sexist.
New York Times stands by 'racist tweets' reporter
- Thread starter VorZakone
- Start date
It wont because people who believe Trump's propaganda don't care for truth, and certainly don't care about racism - otherwise they wouldn't support Trump.
I doubt NYT's viewership will suffer with this, because every click generated by the Trump supporters will still generate revenue for NYT at the end of the day.
Sure, it would be consistent to fire her in the age of doxxing, but would that really feel like a victory?
Like I've said before. If you think the exact same action is reprehensible from one side but entirely acceptable from the other side, because of its alleged moral superiority... then you're in a deep, deep pit my friend. Real deep.Yes, two sides racist and sexist vs Anti racist and sexist.
Hmm, didn't think about it that way. Some Trumpets might click on her articles out of anger. Controversy is as good a form of publicity as anything of course.
As for victory, no I wouldn't say it's a victory, but you either speak out against doxxing all together or you participate in it consistently. I think America's biggest political problem is the ridiculous amount of polarization. And this is feeding that polarization.
Fun how the ones you just know would be up in flames in the racist thread if the same was done by some reporter towards black people or any other minority are the ones most vigilant in trying to absolve this journalist of all blame.
archive.is, archive.eh, archive.umm....waybackmachine, lotsa ways to devoid many many papers of clicks.
America has always been polarised, it's just that everybody has a voice and a platform to express that voice, that's all.
Who? if you're referring to me it would be great if you could point that out, and @ me next time too.
I said she should be fired, and her tweets were racist the other day.
No, actually it wasn't you since you seem to be more understanding of it than the usual self proclaimed left-wingers and 'socialists' we have on here.
Here is a good example. This one has retired to his safe space and come up with the conclusion that all that point out the double morals and difference of approach this case has led to from the NYT are not only just racist, but they are also sexist.Yes, two sides racist and sexist vs Anti racist and sexist.
Quote from @Un4givableB btw.
I haven't followed this closely, but aren't these old tweets and she now says she regrets them?
If I had been around tweeter when I was 18-19 and was a hardcore communist I would've written shit that would've guaranteed I'd never find a job.
People shouldn't be fired for stuff they wrote years ago and in the present they apologize and say they regret it. If she had written them while on the job it would be a different matter.
A bit like the Guardians of the Galaxy guy, whose name I can't remember. People change their ways and views but years later they get fired for what they used to think?
If I had been around tweeter when I was 18-19 and was a hardcore communist I would've written shit that would've guaranteed I'd never find a job.
People shouldn't be fired for stuff they wrote years ago and in the present they apologize and say they regret it. If she had written them while on the job it would be a different matter.
A bit like the Guardians of the Galaxy guy, whose name I can't remember. People change their ways and views but years later they get fired for what they used to think?
I think the political 2 party system and the rhetoric in general are very much to blame for the polarization to be honest. Everybody has a platform to express their voice in most of the western world, yet the polarisation is dwarfed by the shit show in the states. At least, from a Dutch perspective, perhaps it's much worse in England.
His point was that a lot of the outrage has come from people who are racist & sexist against minorities & women, so sure - they may feel enraged about this journalist's tweets - as is their right but when the shoe is on the other foot, they don't care about discrimination towards minorities.
So surely, if you're angry at racism, that anger should extend to all forms of racism, otherwise it sounds like you're only angry at white people being the target of it.
America has never really atoned for it's racist past in the way a lot of European countries have. (I'm thinking of Germany really when I say this, my knowledge of European history is basically nonexistent)
The 2 party system has a part to play, sure but when you put things into context the country was still segregated 2/3 generations ago and aside from the Civil Rights act, not much has really been done. That's before you get into things like the war on drugs, police brutality, profiling, immigration laws etc.
It's a torn up country and most of the outrage and anger that minorities feel isn't new at all.
It's almost as if America is a lot of different countries with different morals and cultures all wrapped in to one big mess of a country 
You're right though. If I scroll through the Police doing a bad job thread on here, I'm stupefied by the level of racism and aggression cops in America display.
For all their screaming and crying of liberty and their land of the free and what not, they're not very enlightened for a western country.
You're right though. If I scroll through the Police doing a bad job thread on here, I'm stupefied by the level of racism and aggression cops in America display.
For all their screaming and crying of liberty and their land of the free and what not, they're not very enlightened for a western country.
Kevin Williamson lost his job at The Atlantic when old comments he made about abortion resurfaced
Sarah Jeong is defended for old comments she made about white people
Sarah Jeong is defended for old comments she made about white people
What do you think the difference between the two situations is ?Kevin Williamson lost his job at The Atlantic when old comments he made about abortion resurfaced
Sarah Jeong is defended for old comments she made about white people
go on, tell us what those comments wereKevin Williamson lost his job at The Atlantic when old comments he made about abortion resurfaced
Sarah Jeong is defended for old comments she made about white people
Jesus I googled it, he wants to hang women who had an abortion
its the same thing as making a joke about sunscreen
The excuses are great...
"It's satire, it was 4-5 years ago, she's just joking, it's nuanced trolling, you just don't get it."
Seeing the mental gymnastics people are doing to defend her when they laugh at, criticise and mock people on the other side of the fence for doing the same for Trump and others is funny.
"It's satire, it was 4-5 years ago, she's just joking, it's nuanced trolling, you just don't get it."
Seeing the mental gymnastics people are doing to defend her when they laugh at, criticise and mock people on the other side of the fence for doing the same for Trump and others is funny.
What the feck is this?
I mean it's fine to have this view I just think you will find yourself being very hypocritical when a journalist starts tweeting some racist shit that you find offensive.
I've already said that she should've been fired, so not sure how i'm being hypocritical.What the feck is this?
I mean it's fine to have this view I just think you will find yourself being very hypocritical when a journalist starts tweeting some racist shit that you find offensive.
What my post was getting at is that, how is her opinion going to affect you unless you read the NYT, and even if you do - are you forced to read her articles?
She'll be lost in the sea of other journalists & the ilk.
There are plenty of journalists, tv show hosts, the president etc who spew racist things almost everyday - it would be great to see the same people who are offended by this particular journalist, up in arms when the same is directed at minorities.
Tucker Carlson, TV host on Fox said on National TV that there's "no history of racism against Koreans" just the other day.
Then there are newspaper articles & opinion pieces written which highlight racial stereotypes, almost every day for many years, along with people like Tommy Robinson.
The president has a long list of things he's said and done, which we could spend the rest of the week on.
And many more I could list.
So yes, what she said was bad. It'd be great if the same energy was also directed at the other forms of racism which continue to be perpetuated daily.
I have to disagree, sure there are plenty of journalists etc. saying racist stuff all the time ...but they are rarely keeping their jobs let alone being hired for new higher status jobs! I don't think I need to list all the recent scandals of people losing their jobs over old tweets.
Suggesting it's the not the same energy is just paving over the fact it's blatant racism, regardless who the target is.
Do you really think if the same racism was directed at minorities, you would be saying "Yes it's bad but you're not forced to read her articles? Just read the articles from non-racists."
I literally just gave you an example of someone who has kept his job for nearly 10 years, and he has denied that Koreans have faced any racism (and that is by no means the only racist thing he's said) in fact, almost everyone on Fox fits this description.
On top of that - you've got the president of the united states, we don't need to get into all the things he's said and done.
Suggesting its not the same energy isn't paving over the fact it's racist - it's saying that if you feel offended by racism targeted towards white people, you should also feel bad at racism targeted towards minorities too, right?
As for your last sentence - as someone who's grown up with racism targeted against my skin colour almost being normalised (unless it's in the extreme in the form of the KKK/Nazis etc) i've had to navigate life using businesses, brands, companies etc who have either had a history of racism, or employ racist staff, or spew racism themselves.
Maybe because the tables have been turned, you can see just how uncomfortable the whole situation is - but yeah this is what it's like having to live with racism.
So i'll ask once again - is this one person's individual opinion going to affect your life in any way? Are her opinions going to affect white people as a whole? Or can we all agree that her opinions aren't really worth repeating and it would be best if we ignored her and continued to live our lives.
I've never once said they don't exist, there is definitely an issue of systematic racism from higher up. These people are a problem but they are not tweeting out blatant racist remarks like Sarah Jeong did. Do you honestly think if Trump tweeted out "dumbing fecking black people" or "how much joy I get out of being cruel to old black men" he would still be president ?
What he and others do in positions of power is wrong and subtle but these sort of remarks can't just be tolerated.
In answer to your question, yes it will. Because there are thousands of people who are defending her comments by saying shit like "well she was subjected to racism first" or "you can't be racist to white people". Unfortunately we can't all agree...clearly why there is a big thread on the subject.
Trump referred to Mexicans as "rapists and drug dealers" and people making the Nazi salute sign as "very good people", and yes - he's still president.
He doesn't have to say exactly what she said, but he's certainly said & done some disgusting things, and continues to be revered by millions.
I'm not suggesting it should be tolerated, I'm saying the same ire & angst should be directed at all racism. Unfortunately, racism towards minorities gets normalised to the point where despicable things are said and done on a daily basis and it gets swept away.
I very much doubt that his one person's opinion will affect the status that white people enjoy within majority white society. Especially since it wont mean that racism against minorities won't suddenly disappear either.
We can check back in this thread in 2 weeks time and see if the effects are still felt in wider society, we can also see if she's still being trolled by the alt-right, and we can also see if this incident will affect the power dynamics within society at all.
I'm gonna guess that this will be forgotten in less than a week, and only brought up in discussion when someone tries to argue that 'reverse racism' exists.
Reverse racism is bullshit. It's just racism which should been condemned the same regardless of the target - I just feel uneasy about people fighting against racism tooth and nail ...then a few days later tweeting how white people do this and that. Do you want to stop it or not?
I often have thought you were like what he said in the past, in the case of that dumb model being fired you actively avoided calling her racist. But I will back you up here, you did say those tweets were racist and thanks to properly reading your posts I feel I understand a lot more as to the differences within racism too though I doubt I'll ever truly understand.
I don't think it helps there are people in this thread so staunchly the other way though. It's sad and it's why we endlessly have these debates.
FWIW Even though her tweets were clearly racist, and IMO someone is a part of the problem if they think otherwise, I really don't think she should be fired thanks to twitter outrage. The correct answer is for her to admit what she did was wrong, and I don't mean through the half arsed "well they did it first!!!!" statement, I mean actually learn from it and try to show that people can grow and understand that it's 2018 and judging people based on skin colour, or gender, or anything like that is just pathetic and should have long been extinct.
Sadly, even in this very thread, it shows why that hasn't happened. There's just so much extreme views from different directions, that we can't even all agree on the very basic fact. That judging people by the colour of their skin, right here and right now, is wrong.
I fully agree.
As a white male, her comments haven't offended me one bit but I understand why it would if the roles were reversed. This is not reverse racism, in fact surely anyone with a brain rejects that as a term.
Ultimately these sort of things are also about group power - where individuals who identify as being part of a group attempt to frame a situation in a way that benefits their group, and in the process, advances their own pursuit of power.
You feel uneasy at racism being targeted at white people, I get it. Racism is uncomfortable and makes you angry and feel powerless.
Understand that those same people who say those things (if they're minorities) have lived almost every day of their life with the same feelings you feel.
No, it doesn't make it better, this isn't an 'oppression olympics' but surely you can see that every minority who fights tooth and nail about racism does so because if they don't, society won't do it for them?
Therefore when those same members of society who are quiet on issues that affect minorities, but understand how hurtful racism is when it affects their racial group, suddenly want to be seen as victims - you're not exactly going to get a lot of sympathy. (for example - i've noticed at least one person in this thread who is staunchly arguing how racist this lady is, but in the Racism thread, has said that a few racist incidents, weren't so and people are overreacting)
I personally would like to see consistency. Racism is racism at the end of the day. What Tucker Carlson said (in response to this incident) is probably one of the most reprehensible things i've seen somebody say in a long time, but I'm sure those same people who are angry at what this lady said, don't care about what Carlson said, and nothing will be done about it.
Which is exactly my point.
I can't pretend as though my views weren't a little more extreme in the past, but i've had a lot of good discussions with my white friends on the topic and it's softened my position. The main fundamentals of my argument remain the same - minorities can be racist, however minorities don't have the power to affect power dynamics, therefore beyond individual acts of racism - white people have it good.
I think these type of incidents are a great learning experience. Jane Elliott does a lot of experiments that put the shoe on the other foot so white people know what it's like living life while being discriminated against - and they always end up in the same way. Anger, upset, sadness, and lots of arguments.
In a lot of ways it's probably the easiest way to help understand what it's like at a very fundamental level
I fully agree with every single word in this post.
The softening aspect is key, I mean if you kept those same views imagine bringing up a child with them? As a father, I'd rather my kids grew up not giving a damn about skin colour, but I'd like them educated properly on the past in that aspect and how we learn from it. It's the only way to truly move forward for future generations. Perhaps it's easier for me to say, ironically because of my skin colour, but then I've never racially abused anyone IRL or on social media. I've also never discriminated as a small employer, I have never ever given the slightest damn of skin colour or country of origin.
I can't believe they bought that "she was only being racist in response to other racists on twitter" excuse.
She a racist, sexist, ageist piece of human garbage.
She a racist, sexist, ageist piece of human garbage.
She's basically the poster child for Jordan Peterson's schtick on identity politics at University campuses.
Jose, white, male.
Oh my! She is right!
Oh my! She is right!
She sounds like a piece of work. Wouldn't want to meet her.
Have to be a little suspicious of the mental faculties of anyone (who wants to be taken seriously) who dyes their hair pink, lets be honest.
This is a couple of seconds out of context where she doesn't say anything remotely offensive or far-fetched, yet you and others are offended. Talk about snowflakes!
If every individual is subjected to this "dig 10 years of his social media history" I really don't think anyone will be 100% clean, doesn't take much for someone to be branded racist these days
I would be.
I might post some questionable stuff on the caf, but then, Kirk Duyt is not my actual name
But there’s nothing being said there? I mean it looks like she’s about make a sweeping generalisation of some sort, but there nothing racist or sexist in that statement unless saying “white men” is offensive. My guess is also there’s nothing provocative in the rest of the statement else it wouldn’t have been cut off the clip.
I don’t know. I’m trying my best to get offended here but it’s not working
Tbf there is 'edgy' humour that doesn't age well and then there's openly wishing an entire race dead.
It's obviously all down to degrees.
Most offensive thing about this woman is the ridiculous hair. Why do these don't judge someone by the way they look activists go to such lengths to look silly. It's like they want us to be shallow cnuts and laugh at them.