horsechoker
The Caf's Roy Keane.
Sack Blair, sell StarmerI know. I love this, it's like someone scores 5 against Ole's United team and it's Fergie's fault.
Sack Blair, sell StarmerI know. I love this, it's like someone scores 5 against Ole's United team and it's Fergie's fault.
Was listening to his 2006 conference speech that @sun_tzu referred to. This bit stood out in particular.I know. I love this, it's like someone scores 5 against Ole's United team and it's Fergie's fault.
We have changed the terms of political debate. This Labour Government has been unique. First time ever two full terms; now three. So why and how? We faced out to the people, not in on ourselves. We put the Party at the service of the country. Their reality became our reality. Their worries, our worries. We abandoned the ridiculous, self-imposed dilemma between principle and power. We went back to first principles, to our values, our real values, those that are timeless, and separated them from doctrine and dogma that had been ravaged by time. In doing so, we freed Britain at long last from the reactionary choice that dominated British politics for so long: between individual prosperity and a caring society. We proved that economic efficiency and social justice are not opposites but partners in progress. We defied conventional political wisdom and thereby we changed it. And around that we built a new political coalition.
The USP of New Labour is aspiration and compassion reconciled. We reach out not just to those in poverty or need but those who are doing well but want to do better; those on the way up, ambitious for themselves and their families. These are our people too. Not to be tolerated for electoral reasons. But embraced out of political conviction. The core vote of this Party today is not the heartlands, the inner city, not any sectional interest or lobby. Our core vote is the country.
give it to beckett till the summerSack Blair, sell Starmer
A bit over the top but there is a point there. Today's left seem to spend their time scouring twitter for ways of categorising who voted against them, what age, what education, what job do they do, where do they live, any way of pigeonholing people so they can be blamed for not sharing the glorious revolution. All about blame of course, very little questioning why or what might be the way forward to represent them as well. Strange how the party of the many and not the few became the opposite, according to the election result anyway.Was listening to his 2006 conference speech that @sun_tzu referred to. This bit stood out in particular.
I'm not questioning his beliefs as anything but genuine and i do agree with most of what he says but he's a key figure the media will use to damage Labours image.With the amount of blame being put on Blair and New Labour following the election defeat I'm not surprised he is coming out and defending that era. I think he also genuinely believes the Labour Party could be finished as a political force if it does not fundamentally change, hence his scathing assessment of Corbyn the other day.
Out of interest did you agree with anything Blair said?
Knew Corbyn was done when he celebrated that draw against the Lib Dems by sprinting up and down the polling station.give it to beckett till the summer
Blair has such a strong political vision, I would love him to come back into front line politics. Would probably have to be as a Lib Dem though!Was listening to his 2006 conference speech that @sun_tzu referred to. This bit stood out in particular.
Just remember nobody could have done better than Corbyn.Have to say that Corbyn's general demeanour since his defeat has been pretty pathetic. He really does act like a surly teenage when he is upset.
It baffles me that there is a huge list of faux pas that most people would agree should bar someone from public office but apparently leading your country into an illegal war on knowingly false premises is not one of them.Blair has such a strong political vision, I would love him to come back into front line politics. Would probably have to be as a Lib Dem though!
The false premises weren't known, and it wasn't an illegal war. It was one of the worst decisions in the past 50 years, costing a huge number of lives, but I think he did it for what he felt to be the right reasons.It baffles me that there is a huge list of faux pas that most people would agree should bar someone from public office but apparently leading your country into an illegal war on knowingly false premises is not one of them.
LBC interview featuring Wes Streeting.Hold up... Seems like somebody has a cunning plan to get pidcock back in the leadership mix
Wes streeting (understandably) does not seem keen on the planTweet
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They were known and the UN disagrees on its legality but erm sure?The false premises weren't known, and it wasn't an illegal war. It was one of the worst decisions in the past 50 years, costing a huge number of lives, but I think he did it for what he felt to be the right reasons.
Yep.Have to say that Corbyn's general demeanour since his defeat has been pretty pathetic. He really does act like a surly teenage when he is upset.
I wouldn't waste your time.1) How can you be so sure given the thrashing the Corbyn left just got? A thrashing the "centrists" predicted.
2) What do you mean by Blair 2.0 anyway? Because you desperately need someone with the ability to think stuff through as well and as clearly as he did and then sell it. Nobody on the Corbynite left has anything like that ability.
A discussion of the Iraq war is only going to derail the thread but do you seriously want to argue that it was not an illegal war and that the false premises were not known to be a mix of outright fabricated nonsense and gross exaggerations of the truth? Just to give you a flavour, one of the pillars that buttressed the public justification for the Iraq war was Saddam's supposed links to al Qaeda. Blair admitted in a letter to Bush that the link was 'at best very tenuous' but he still proposed pushing it upon the British public to bring them on side. When Blair says 'at best very tenuous', bearing in mind the parameters of acceptable discourse that governs such official communications, that is essentially a euphemism for 'we know this is blatantly and demonstrably false'. Even the most cursory investigation of the evidence available will expose to you the extent of the knowingly false premises that were used to justify the war.The false premises weren't known, and it wasn't an illegal war. It was one of the worst decisions in the past 50 years, costing a huge number of lives, but I think he did it for what he felt to be the right reasons.
The false premises weren't known, and it wasn't an illegal war. It was one of the worst decisions in the past 50 years, costing a huge number of lives, but I think he did it for what he felt to be the right reasons.
Finally!Lisa Nandy doing my head in more than a little right now. Someone like Anna Turley was also under pressure in a very brexit area, but was against it because it would've battered the area even harder. All Nandy seems to do is parrot Tory talking points about thinking voters are dumb. Great job on giving Johnson the boost on the withdrawal bill, as well.
I'm all for thinking about how to regenerate towns and devolve power, but less of the "end the culture war" comments whilst saying remainers thought northerners were thick would be nice. And the less said of Stephen Kinnock, the better.
Yup looking at it you're right, she was a campaign co-chair! And that was in the immediate aftermath of the referendum, when being for a second one was still relatively niche. Hope she gets asked about this in the campaign...Finally!
I can't work her out. I went into this really expecting to like her but totally agree with everything you said
Weird that she was a big Smith supporter too, think she headed his campaign and his main thing was stopping brexit.
I'm sure she will and it will probably count against her for enough members to make winning difficult.Yup looking at it you're right, she was a campaign co-chair! And that was in the immediate aftermath of the referendum, when being for a second one was still relatively niche. Hope she gets asked about this in the campaign...
Yeah proper shite, almost couldn't be bothered voting. There should at least be a reasonable choice this time around and it hopefully won't be so entrenched at either end.I'm sure she will and it will probably count against her for enough members to make winning difficult.
As a non-Corbyn supporter what did you think of Smith's campaign? I thought it was terrible.
I don't think it would be so entrenched. People latched onto Corbyn for a fairly unique set of circumstances including that he was a unique choice of the type that a large section of people had been wanting for a while, which I reckon won't be the case this time. Probably wishful thinking though.Yeah proper shite, almost couldn't be bothered voting. There should at least be a reasonable choice this time around and it hopefully won't be so entrenched at either end.
I suspect we will see 3 or 4 candidates in the endI don't think it would be so entrenched. People latched onto Corbyn for a fairly unique set of circumstances including that he was a unique choice of the type that a large section of people had been wanting for a while, which I reckon won't be the case this time. Probably wishful thinking though.
I've no idea how the nominations will work out with this new system though and how wide a field of candidates it will create.
No I think there’s something to that, not just ‘wishful thinking’ on your part. Corbyn has failed with the electorate but within the Labour party he has succeeded in shifting discourse and policy to a mostly centre-left position. It’s highly likely whoever succeeds him will retain much if the agenda formulated in the past few years. I don’t think the need to push a candidate like Corbyn will be felt as acutely by many on the left as it was post-Miliband. Personally I wouldn’t have voted for Starmer in 2015 but today I might.I don't think it would be so entrenched. People latched onto Corbyn for a fairly unique set of circumstances including that he was a unique choice of the type that a large section of people had been wanting for a while, which I reckon won't be the case this time. Probably wishful thinking though.
I've no idea how the nominations will work out with this new system though and how wide a field of candidates it will create.
The thing is I'm sure what she's saying resonates with her constituents and many other seats of that type. I also imagine she's only running to push a certain debate within the party.Lisa Nandy doing my head in more than a little right now. Someone like Anna Turley was also under pressure in a very brexit area, but was against it because it would've battered the area even harder. All Nandy seems to do is parrot Tory talking points about thinking voters are dumb. Great job on giving Johnson the boost on the withdrawal bill, as well.
I'm all for thinking about how to regenerate towns and devolve power, but less of the "end the culture war" comments whilst saying remainers thought northerners were thick would be nice. And the less said of Stephen Kinnock, the better.
She’s a hypocrite. She voted against or abstained on much of the anti-Brexit amendments and indicative votes and is responsible for where we are at the moment together with some of the other midland and north west MPs. They all tried to save their skins with their constituents (most failed!) and fecked the country. Two faced cnuts should be allowed nowhere near leadership of the party.Lisa Nandy doing my head in more than a little right now. Someone like Anna Turley was also under pressure in a very brexit area, but was against it because it would've battered the area even harder. All Nandy seems to do is parrot Tory talking points about thinking voters are dumb. Great job on giving Johnson the boost on the withdrawal bill, as well.
I'm all for thinking about how to regenerate towns and devolve power, but less of the "end the culture war" comments whilst saying remainers thought northerners were thick would be nice. And the less said of Stephen Kinnock, the better.
Phillips... At least she isn't blandHe is kind of bland. I honestly can't think of any other adjective, just bland. All suggestions welcome.
He is but maybe the most credible choice right now. I will vote for him, but I'm quite pessimistic about his or any of the contenders's chances. I go along with the view that Labour will need an exceptionally talented leader to turn things around. Maybe one will emerge in the coming years. Let's hope.He is kind of bland. I honestly can't think of any other adjective, just bland. All suggestions welcome.
Yeah, I like Phillips. Have to wait and see how many people get enough union/CLP/MP support to stand though. Some of the hopefuls won't make it.Phillips... At least she isn't bland
He does but he is yesterday's man and tainted by Iraq.Blair has such a strong political vision, I would love him to come back into front line politics. Would probably have to be as a Lib Dem though!
calm down mate, didn't realise you had such a thing for Andy Burnham. I'll try not to denigrate the great man in the future. And thanks for the flattering comparison to Tony Benn, much appreciated.
Apart from you and a few other centrists in here . Where is the call for this New New Labour coming from?. Traditional Labour supporters were the ones that felt left out under Blair.He does but he is yesterday's man and tainted by Iraq.
However, the concept of New Labour was exactly what was needed then and in myopinion now. It resonated with a more modern philosophy.
Compare that with the outdated offering of Corbyn led Labour.
It was completely obvious that it was going to be soundly rejected by the traditional Labour voters.
The answer is very clear.
Modernise or shrivel and die.
And a good chunk of them ditched Corbyn and his manifesto for Johnson... Just as they did foot and his manifesto for ThatcherTraditional Labour supporters were the ones that felt left out under Blair.