Next Labour leader - Starmer and Rayner win

mad1max954

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Vidic_In_Moscow said:
Corbyn himself is not as bad as people now say. He made a couple of big errors in judgement but to me he's still a credible politician with integrity. She is just a show pony with no substance.
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a couple of big errors.. complete failure more like, worst defeat post war. Total disaster

Credible?!?!? That must be a joke!

Honestly if your not part of momentum / the hard left, the guy is a danger. Literally a danger.

For the sake of the Labour Party, it has to appoint a moderate.

If brexit goes badly it’s not inconceivable that labour will have a shot at a majority next time I think. A lot of people didn’t want the tories but feared Corbyn. Myself included

the socialist left need to let it go.
 

Mart1974

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MalcolmTucker said:
Jess Phillips can swivel
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I didn't mind her as I see a 2 leader strategy before the next GE. Leader 1 needs to be an attack dog, smash Boris week in and week out at PMQ. Leader 2 tips up in 4 years time as a more moderate, calmer head to show Labour as a party of government not just opposition.
 

711

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Mart1974 said:
To be clear, she is attack dog material.
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I suspect the lefties would soon be cheering her on if ever she gets to the despatch box, they'd love it.

I don't know who I'll vote for yet, I'll genuinely read their manifestos (if that's the word) and decide from that. I would like Cooper to stand though.
 

sun_tzu

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711 said:
I suspect the lefties would soon be cheering her on if ever she gets to the despatch box, they'd love it.

I don't know who I'll vote for yet, I'll genuinely read their manifestos (if that's the word) and decide from that. I would like Cooper to stand though.
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I think a significant Chunk of the momentum left are going to chuck their toys out of the pram and go after any leader / deputy who isn't wrong bailey or Raynor/burgon

Phillips probably more than most (and nandy) as they are probably seen as the most centrist and the ones who would perhaps challange momentum head on... Phillips would I think make sure the antisemitism concerns were addressed and anybody associated with it any sniff of a cover up she would very publicly chuck them under the ehrc bus ... I think some on the far left would hate her more than they hate boris.

Will be interesting to see who can get enough plp backing.

You need 10% of the plp but let's be honest it's unlikely the votes split that equally

I think there are 5 who probably have the votes...

Phillips says she has enough
Nandy I think has plenty of backers
Wrong daily will have enough
Starmer will for sure
Cooper... Probably has enough people who would back her but I'm not sure she will run

Thornberry, lammy, Lewis, jarvis, lavery are all probably scrambling round to get the backers... Perhaps one or two will succeed
 

Pexbo

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Rafaeldagold said:
If it’s not Keir Starmer then labour will be screwed for a while
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Labour are screwed regardless. The press are going to have 5 years of character assassination to turn the next leader into a dangerous laughing stock.

Unfortunately my mother reads the Daily Mail and over Christmas I scanned through it and they had on 4 separate pages columns about Keir Starmer and why he's not the sensible option for Labour that he paints himself to be. I can't even remember the reasons they gave but they were all gossipy columnists attacking him with no real substance. He's obviously the one they fear the most as he's a knighted barrister with a public image and self presentation that is day to Corbyn's night.


I really think that Labour would be better off appointing a night watchman for the next two or three years while the party works out exactly what it is trying to achieve and what the public want so they pick their new leader at the right moment, leaving the new leader less time to be destroyed by Murdoch and co and enough time to get their message out and create a buzz amongst the public.
 

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sun_tzu said:
Thornberry, lammy, Lewis, jarvis, lavery are all probably scrambling round to get the backers... Perhaps one or two will succeed
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Some of these will know they stand no chance this time but by putting their names in the ring they are laying down a marker for the future. Except Thornberry maybe, she comes across as someone that will try and bully her way to the top of whatever organisation she's in.
 

T00lsh3d

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Pexbo said:
Labour are screwed regardless. The press are going to have 5 years of character assassination to turn the next leader into a dangerous laughing stock.

Unfortunately my mother reads the Daily Mail and over Christmas I scanned through it and they had on 4 separate pages columns about Keir Starmer and why he's not the sensible option for Labour that he paints himself to be. I can't even remember the reasons they gave but they were all gossipy columnists attacking him with no real substance. He's obviously the one they fear the most as he's a knighted barrister with a public image and self presentation that is day to Corbyn's night.
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Is there anyone’s mums who don’t read the daily mail? Mine does as well. Swear this comes up in conversations all the time.
 

Pexbo

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T00lsh3d said:
Is there anyone’s mums who don’t read the daily mail? Mine does as well. Swear this comes up in conversations all the time.
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It's excruciating isn't it. She's kind and liberal at heart but my Granddad is an old school Tory (he's 90 now and the Tory party he associates with is the party of the 60s and 70s, again the kindest sweetest man I've ever met and very liberal on social issues) and she's fiercely loyal to him and therefore tribal attitude to the party.

During the 2015 Election, over the course of 3 weeks I managed to sneak into conversations most of the questions from a political calculator, I then showed her all the answers I'd managed to get out of her and told her what I was doing and she agreed to fill in the missing answers and the results showed her to be somewhere around 80% in line with Labour's manifesto, 60% Lib Dem and less than 35% in line with the Conservatives. She thought it was hilarious but was absolutely adamant it wouldn't change her mind because she felt that the Conservatives were the only safe party to vote for. Infuriating but that's why these billionaires own these Media Corps.
 

T00lsh3d

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Pexbo said:
It's excruciating isn't it. She's kind and liberal at heart but my Granddad is an old school Tory (he's 90 now and the Tory party he associates with is the party of the 60s and 70s, again the kindest sweetest man I've ever met and very liberal on social issues) and she's fiercely loyal to him and therefore tribal attitude to the party.

During the 2015 Election, over the course of 3 weeks I managed to sneak into conversations most of the questions from a political calculator, I then showed her all the answers I'd managed to get out of her and told her what I was doing and she agreed to fill in the missing answers and the results showed her to be somewhere around 80% in line with Labour's manifesto, 60% Lib Dem and less than 35% in line with the Conservatives. She thought it was hilarious but was absolutely adamant it wouldn't change her mind because she felt that the Conservatives were the only safe party to vote for. Infuriating but that's why these billionaires own these Media Corps.
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Yeah and I’m sure there’s many others that would echo similar stories. I think with the liberal thing, it’s that they’re liberal on a personal level, but liberalisation on a national basis is off-putting (if that makes sense). My mum was an active UKIP member, but does voluntary work teaching migrants who have arrived in the country with nothing basic English.
 

That'sHernandez

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Pexbo said:
It's excruciating isn't it. She's kind and liberal at heart but my Granddad is an old school Tory (he's 90 now and the Tory party he associates with is the party of the 60s and 70s, again the kindest sweetest man I've ever met and very liberal on social issues) and she's fiercely loyal to him and therefore tribal attitude to the party.

During the 2015 Election, over the course of 3 weeks I managed to sneak into conversations most of the questions from a political calculator, I then showed her all the answers I'd managed to get out of her and told her what I was doing and she agreed to fill in the missing answers and the results showed her to be somewhere around 80% in line with Labour's manifesto, 60% Lib Dem and less than 35% in line with the Conservatives. She thought it was hilarious but was absolutely adamant it wouldn't change her mind because she felt that the Conservatives were the only safe party to vote for. Infuriating but that's why these billionaires own these Media Corps.
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T00lsh3d said:
Yeah and I’m sure there’s many others that would echo similar stories. I think with the liberal thing, it’s that they’re liberal on a personal level, but liberalisation on a national basis is off-putting (if that makes sense). My mum was an active UKIP member, but does voluntary work teaching migrants who have arrived in the country with nothing basic English.
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My mother's a nurse, who also reads the Daily Mail and it's basically a similar story. Except sometimes I have managed to exert enough pressure on her that she has (or at least says to me she has) voted Labour, though I think given she has seen the systematic dismantling of the NHS first hand helps. She votes Green in local elections as she states "They are very good locally". She's an only child and comes from a middle class background, and regularly tells me my grandad (her dad) often said "You do better on tax with the Tories," though, which is where I think her Tory lean comes from more than anything. That being said, she's no where near as liberal as I am and I would (happily) describe myself as a Blairite, so sometimes I describe her as a Labour voting Tory.

I creepily took the liberty of checking your ages; we are all in our early 30s and I'm guessing our parents are from the Boomer generation? I imagine that probably also has a lot to do with it...
 

T00lsh3d

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That'sHernandez said:
My mother's a nurse, who also reads the Daily Mail and it's basically a similar story. Except sometimes I have managed to exert enough pressure on her that she has (or at least says to me she has) voted Labour, though I think given she has seen the systematic dismantling of the NHS first hand helps. She votes Green in local elections as she states "They are very good locally". She's an only child and comes from a middle class background, and regularly tells me my grandad (her dad) often said "You do better on tax with the Tories," though, which is where I think her Tory lean comes from more than anything. That being said, she's no where near as liberal as I am and I would (happily) describe myself as a Blairite, so sometimes I describe her as a Labour voting Tory.

I creepily took the liberty of checking your ages; we are all in our early 30s and I'm guessing our parents are from the Boomer generation? I imagine that probably also has a lot to do with it...
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You creepy bastard :lol:
Nah you’re dead right and I bet this story could be told a million times over across the country.
 

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“You’ll do better with taxes with the Tories” is such an infuriating argument.

“You’ll have another £452 each year under the Tories” would be a more accurate framing of the argument.

Will you do better? Personally I think the entire country would do much better if taxes were increased by a large margin. We’d do much better if we had money to plough into the NHS, to sort the train networks out, to repair the roads, to give schools the money they need to run properly and to stop the next generation of professionals that will be driving our economy from having to pay the earth for their education to get there.
 

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Jess Phillips is just a microcosm of modern politics/celebrity culture. Shameless self-promoter with no substance, who ’trends’ (and is thus considered ’popular’) because she rants and generates social media ‘clicks’...people might vote for her cause she’s a ‘celeb’, rather than her policies.

She’d be an absolute shit show.
 

SteveJ

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Re: older voters, and Mail readers ~

I think that older people are patronised so often that they must feel exasperated and angry when others tell them what views they, apparently, should hold. Then they get written off as stubborn and 'blind'. Older women, especially, experience this patronisation all the time - small wonder if they choose to stick to their opinions...
 

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Nandy is the only one I’ve seen so far who has anything approaching a sensible plan of action, nebulous as it may be right now. Labour have had a decade or two of being run by middle class city dwellers, who attract middle class city dweller members who appoint more middle class city dwelling leaders and so on. Corbyn was the ultimate example of that. Labour needs to start empowering other parts of the country to have input into Labour, which in time will lead to people and policies emerging that reflect those parts of the country and therefore understand and become attractive to voters based in them. Not just Northern towns by the way, but to other areas like Scotland and middle England too. The leaders job will to start that off and then carefully manage the emergent position and inevitable disagreements.

Trouble is, that will naturally lead to the party moving to the right. Corbyn and his team are to the left of the spectrum of Labour voters. That’s why people like Milne and Murphy held such a tight control on policy and decision making. They know that if Labour’s “voice”, as it were, is the average of everyone in the party it’ll be much more of a soft left/centre left voice than they would desire. This is why, despite all the talk about a social movement at the outset under Corbyn, the party become even more tightly controlled on policy and direction than even under Miliband.

Which means that the current team that have supported Corbyn (the so called four Ms) will resist Nandys approach as much as any centrist. It means a loss of control for them. So even though on policy she’ll be in classic soft left territory, she’ll be opposed the same as any centrist.
 

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SteveJ said:
Re: older voters, and Mail readers ~

I think that older people are patronised so often that they must feel exasperated and angry when others tell them what views they, apparently, should hold. Then they get written off as stubborn and 'blind'. Older women, especially, experience this patronisation all the time - small wonder if they choose to stick to their opinions...
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No one wants to be categorised and labelled, whatever group they belong to. It's just more acceptable to insult or despise some people than it is others.
 

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luke511 said:
Andy Burnham would make a great Labour Leader.
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I thought the leader had to be an mp... Certainly from a practical standpoint it would seem strange if they were not

As such Burnham, khan, d.milliband and pidcock are all ruled out I think

Potentially quite a crowded race as it is but I think Burnham would be in the mix if he was an MP...
I think the mayoral election is this year ... Wouldn't be surprised if he stands down after a second term (2023) and looks for a safe labour seat in the 2024/2025 election as he's still Only 49
 

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P-Ro said:
He wouldn't want to see Yvette Cooper at the dispatch box. I'm sure you do like Jess, many labour voters do. Then again many tory voters like Mark Francois and it's for the same reason..they both get on TV now and then and have colourful, hysterical rants at their opponents. They're both just soundbites with no substance.
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Why? As long as Johnson doesn't become disabled over the next few years Yvette will have little interest in attacking him.
711 said:
You're writing as if I've read all the same twitter stuff as you have. You may have some good points, or may not, but I'm not going to spend half an hour googling to find out what you mean.

'Feck off Diane Abott' on the other hand, I get that.
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Her bezzie Rees-Mogg. Surely you've not missed all the media appearances where she explains how lovely he is?
 

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Dobba said:
Why? As long as Johnson doesn't become disabled over the next few years Yvette will have little interest in attacking him.

Her bezzie Rees-Mogg. Surely you've not missed all the media appearances where she explains how lovely he is?
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Heaven forbid a labour leader who could appeal to conservative voters... I mean we might get 3 straight election victories with workable majorities and be able to implement actual policies ... She really should just say they are evil and insult anybody who votes conservatives I suppose
 

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Just caught up reading on all the contenders' pitches. I think underwhelming is the term.

Progressive patriotism? An oxymoron, surely?
 

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sun_tzu said:
Heaven forbid a labour leader who could appeal to conservative voters... I mean we might get 3 straight election victories with workable majorities and be able to implement actual policies ... She really should just say they are evil and insult anybody who votes conservatives I suppose
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Glad you mentioned policies, which of Jess' is your favourite? I realise you'll have to go through the reams of newspaper articles, her books and watch/listen to the hours of TV and radio coverage she's received since elected and whittle them down to a shortlist.

She finds it pretty easy to insult someone in her own party for telling her she wasn't the only feminist in the PLP. Weird how that is deemed infinitely more worthy of years worth of grudge than a posh white Tory cnut being told about a group wanting to repatriate black Britons and then dining with them anyway, palling around with Steve Bannon, retweeting AfD and saying the Grenfell dead lacked common sense.
 

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"Where's the tea strainer, Jacob?"
"It's his day off."

Sorry for the old, stolen joke.
 

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sun_tzu said:
I like the one about dragging the party back to an electable centre ground and leaving all the antisemitic scum momentum brought with them without a political home
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She's concerned about antisemitism now too? Again, weird how she doesn't seem remotely fussed when Mogg spouts Soros conspiracy theories in the Commons or the Spectator Garden Party invites hit her doormat, so she can hang around with Taki and friends.
 

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My default position at the moment is Starmer, as much as anything because it feels like the reaction to most of the other serious candidates would be exhausting.
 
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