NHL 2023/2024

[Wittmann45]

Are the Leafs the biggest/most supported club in Canada?

Who would they be on the equivalent to an English football club?

Leafs followed pretty closely by Montreal, in terms of fan support and overall value. The Leafs are probably the most supported and most hated team in Canada.

Sportnet (along with CBC, who Sportsnet have some sort of agreement over shared rights) and TSN, the two big sports channels here, build a lot of their NHL coverage around the Leafs. It is so bad that I think a lot of fans of teams in the West, ie Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, tend to complain about how much coverage the Leafs get. RDS, the big French station, is dominated by Montreal. A lot of sports commentators in Canada, guys like Jeff O'Neill, gain a lot of traction by shitting on the Leafs one day for being inept then celebrating every one of their players the next day as the best player in the league at their position.

As for an English equivalent, maybe an even worse version of Liverpool before Klopp, in that it is a team with lots of history but little success in the last number of decades. Leafs fans and Liverpool fans pre-Klopp were also pretty similar in that they tend to be pretty arrogant and overrate a lot of their players. Next year is always theirs until they are knocked out of the playoffs in the first round.

 

[Cheimoon]

It's between the Leafs and the Habs really. I found a good article from four years ago that does breakdowns by region, age group, and gender: https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/infographic-canadas-favourite-nhl-team-region-generation-sex/

Here are its graphs:

 

[Cheimoon]

Leafs followed pretty closely by Montreal, in terms of fan support and overall value. The Leafs are probably the most supported and most hated team in Canada.

Sportnet (along with CBC, who Sportsnet have some sort of agreement over shared rights) and TSN, the two big sports channels here, build a lot of their NHL coverage around the Leafs. RDS, the big French station, is dominated by Montreal. A lot of sports commentators in Canada, guys like Jeff O'Neill, gain a lot of traction by shitting on the Leafs one day for being inept then celebrating every one of their players next day as the best player in the league at their position.

As for an English equivalent, maybe an even worse version of Liverpool before Klopp, in that it is a team with lots of history but little success in the last number of decades. Leafs fans and Liverpool fans pre-Klopp were also pretty similar in that they tend to be pretty arrogant and overrate a lot of their players. Next year is always theirs until they are knocked out of the playoffs in the first round.

Yeah, the Leafs comparison to pre-Klopp Liverpool makes a lot of sense! I don't know what the equivalent would be for the Habs. One thing with current hockey is that success is spread out pretty widely across the league, and no team can dominate for very long; so you can't really see it in terms of the EPL with its (fairly) established top 4/6. NHL royalty is basically The Original Six: Toronto, Montreal, Detroit, Boston, Chicago, NY Rangers. They're all still around, but they're not dominant anymore, not even in the play-offs (maybe only the Bruins right now?).

 

[MrMarcello]

Montreal = Leeds ?

 

[Cheimoon]

Montreal = Leeds ?

Rather Arsenal. One of the most successful clubs in history that hasn't won anything in a while, and that's pretty far removed from any current or future success - but I think they are less weird about it than the Leafs. Although the Habs' unique identify as the league's francophone team might be like Liverpool and Merseyside.

 

[Cheimoon]

So, Scheifele got a 4-game ban for his hit on Evans. I suppose it's a good length, but after a deliberate hit like that, it's sad to think he'll be back for game 6 (if there is one) while Evans won't be. At least this time I'd get it if every Habs player is ready to fight Scheifele.

 

[MrMarcello]

That was one of the more dirty hits I've seen in the sport. Maybe not quite up there with the Draper hit or when McSorley (think it was him) smacked that dude's head with his stick but not far off.

 

[JPRouve]

Rather Arsenal. One of the most successful clubs in history that hasn't won anything in a while, and that's pretty far removed from any current or future success - but I think they are less weird about it than the Leafs. Although the Habs' unique identify as the league's francophone team might be like Liverpool and Merseyside.

The Habs are by some distance the most successful franchise in the history, no one is close and they are not like Liverpool that would be the Leafs who always believe that next year is their year. Also the Habs aren't far removed from future successes, they have a very strong core of young players and could realistically be a contender in the near future.

 

[JPRouve]

Montreal = Leeds ?

I don't think that there is a good example in Football but in the NFL the Cowboys would be the closest thing, in the sense that people are obsessed with Hockey, expectations are high and they haven't won in a while.

 

[sidsutton]

That was one of the more dirty hits I've seen in the sport. Maybe not quite up there with the Draper hit or when McSorley (think it was him) smacked that dude's head with his stick but not far off.

It was disappointing to hear their coach say it was a clean hit. Just say the league have made their decision and we move on. I still believe he had a good chance to stop Evans if he reached out with his stick, maybe dived, but he had no intention of making a play on the puck when you see where his stick was. The intent was obvious and he was riled up all game (see his altercation with Chiarot I believe on the ice) and for Paul Maurice to deny that also was disappointing.

 

[Kristjan]

Never thought I would miss that asshole Don Cherry but he would have loved to say repeatedly about this... Heads up kid

 

[Cheimoon]

The Habs are by some distance the most successful franchise in the history, no one is close and they are not like Liverpool that would be the Leafs who always believe that next year is their year. Also the Habs aren't far removed from future successes, they have a very strong core of young players and could realistically be a contender in the near future.

I think every team is always somehow, somewhat, somewhere close. (Except the Sens. We'll suck forever, even though we did get far in the play-offs once. Just saying 'we' because it's my city; the owner's a jackass which makes it hard to sympathise with the club. At least they are bilingual though, that's nice. )

Anyway, I agree, those comparisons don't work. The dynamic in the NHL is incomparable to the EPL, in the way the NHL is more egalitarian and lacks promotion/relegation.

It was disappointing to hear their coach say it was a clean hit. Just say the league have made their decision and we move on. I still believe he had a good chance to stop Evans if he reached out with his stick, maybe dived, but he had no intention of making a play on the puck when you see where his stick was. The intent was obvious and he was riled up all game (see his altercation with Chiarot I believe on the ice) and for Paul Maurice to deny that also was disappointing.

Yeah, no way he was stopping the puck from going in and he will have known that well in advance of the hit - but didn't do anything to reduce the impact.

 

[Cheimoon]

So, that's it, the Jets have been swept 4-0 and the Habs are through.

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I haven't followed anything else (and this admittedly also mostly through the news - but I did see the Habs completely batter Winnipeg in the third period). How are the other teams and who is looking most likely to win it in the end right now?

 

[WeePat]

I have this theory that the Habs are destined to the win it all this season.

Chelsea and the Habs have pretty much mirrored each other's seasons since 2015. The Habs have won the division twice since 2015, Chelsea won the title in both of those seasons. When Chelsea finished 10th, the Habs were nowhere near the playoffs. When the Habs just about squeezed into the playoffs, Chelsea scraped a top 4 spot. When Chelsea finished 5th, the Habs missed the playoffs. Both Chelsea and Habs just about squeezed into the top 4/playoffs last season. Chelsea being the European champions this season is a fantastic omen.

I presented this theory to my mate before the Leafs series began, that if Chelsea won the CL, the Habs would win the Stanley Cup. He laughed me out of the room, but here we are. Into the last 4 we go.

 

[massi83]

So, that's it, the Jets have been swept 4-0 and the Habs are through.

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I haven't followed anything else (and this admittedly also mostly through the news - but I did see the Habs completely batter Winnipeg in the third period). How are the other teams and who is looking most likely to win it in the end right now?

Colorado, Vegas and Tampa. Montreal will get max 1 win against either of COL/VGK.

 

[JPRouve]

Colorado, Vegas and Tampa. Montreal will get max 1 win against either of COL/VGK.

The same thing was said before the games against the Leafs and Jets.

 

[massi83]

The same thing was said before the games against the Leafs and Jets.

Leafs are losers and neither Montreal or Jets should be in the playoffs. The gulf between COL/VGK and MON is bigger than MONvsBUF/ANA. Montreal was in the easiest division in the last 30 years, possible ever, and has less points than Dallas or NYR and minus goal difference. They are 6th favourites today even when they are only team through. But anything can happen in sports. Montreal actually has about 20-25% chance of advancing, so I was a bit hyperbolic. And the actual o/u-line is Montreal 2.5 wins.

 

[JPRouve]

Leafs are losers and neither Montreal or Jets should be in the playoffs. The gulf between COL/VGK and MON is bigger than MONvsBUF/ANA. Montreal was in the easiest division in the last 30 years, possible ever, and has less points than Dallas or NYR and minus goal difference. They are 6th favourites today even when they are only team through. But anything can happen in sports. Montreal actually has about 20-25% chance of advancing, so I was a bit hyperbolic. And the actually o/u-line is Montreal 2.5 wins.

Let the games play out, there is no need nor point to be categoric when people have been wrong for the entirety of these playoffs.

 

[WeePat]

Apparently the Jets only held the lead for 19:52 against the Oilers and never had it vs the Canadiens. They trailed for 60:12 against Edmonton and 167:32 against Montreal. I'm surprised they won 4 playoff games with those numbers.

 

[Cheimoon]

Thanks guys. We'll see. At least it's nice to see Canadian teams make it far into the playoffs again - even if that was rather unavoidable given this year's divisions.

 

[MrMarcello]

Leafs are losers and neither Montreal or Jets should be in the playoffs. The gulf between COL/VGK and MON is bigger than MONvsBUF/ANA. Montreal was in the easiest division in the last 30 years, possible ever, and has less points than Dallas or NYR and minus goal difference. They are 6th favourites today even when they are only team through. But anything can happen in sports. Montreal actually has about 20-25% chance of advancing, so I was a bit hyperbolic. And the actual o/u-line is Montreal 2.5 wins.

Stats like this is why I'm against 16 playoff teams in the NBA and NHL. It makes the playoffs a bit satured IMO. I'd rather see legit sides in the postseason versus sides that barely scraped in as a 7th/8th seed. In fact, I'd rather only 8 teams in both league playoffs.

 

[WeePat]

So it's the Habs vs Golden Knights and NYI vs Tampa Bay in the semifinals.

 

[MrMarcello]

That's just weird to see Montreal in the "West."

I'd like to see some new blood per say, so come'on Habs and Isles, even though Montreal getting there goes against my statement above. Been a long time for both.

 

[WeePat]

That's just weird to see Montreal in the "West."

I'd like to see some new blood per say, so come'on Habs and Isles, even though Montreal getting there goes against my statement above. Been a long time for both.

Kind of like calling Liverpool 'new blood' in 2020

 

[Cheimoon]

That's just weird to see Montreal in the "West."

I'd like to see some new blood per say, so come'on Habs and Isles, even though Montreal getting there goes against my statement above. Been a long time for both.

That's what you get with 'North', would've been equally weird seeing Vancouver in the East. Don't worry, we'll get back to normal soon.

Vegas has done quite well with the way it first put together its team. I can't support them though - but that's really just because I don't like Vegas as a city (or its concept, anyway); nothing to do with the team or players.

 

[WeePat]

So the Habs made it out of Vegas with a win. I was surprised to see Vegas took no PK's at all for the whole game. That must be a rare occurrence in hockey.

Vegas aren't the scary monster everyone made them out to be.

 

[Cheimoon]

So the Habs made it out of Vegas with a win. I was surprised to see Vegas took no PK's at all for the whole game. That must be a rare occurrence in hockey.

Vegas aren't the scary monster everyone made them out to be.

It's funny how it goes up and down like that in hockey - although the Habs played well in the first big of the first game as well. It might be an exciting best-of-7 after all.

 

[JPRouve]

It's funny how it goes up and down like that in hockey - although the Habs played well in the first big of the first game as well. It might be an exciting best-of-7 after all.

If you jinxed it, I will find you.

 

[Cheimoon]

If you jinxed it, I will find you.

No you won't. You're not Olly.

Right?

 

[WeePat]

It's funny how it goes up and down like that in hockey - although the Habs played well in the first big of the first game as well. It might be an exciting best-of-7 after all.

I hadn't really watched much of VGK this season, so I was expecting some kind of offensive and defensive juggernaut the way people were going on about them.

 

[JPRouve]

I hadn't really watched much of VGK this season, so I was expecting some kind of offensive and defensive juggernaut the way people were going on about them.

People(pundits) are talking through their backsides. If we are being serious for one second the western division has the Sharks, Kings, Ducks, Coyotes and Wild. In 19-20 these teams respectively finished, 29th, 28th, 27th, 24th and 22nd in the league. While I'm convinced that over 82 games Vegas are a more consistent and therefore better team than the Habs people seem to have forgotten which teams are in the western division and even worse medias have managed to brrainwash people.

 

[Zlaatan]

People(pundits) are talking through their backsides. If we are being serious for one second the western division has the Sharks, Kings, Ducks, Coyotes and Wild. In 19-20 these teams respectively finished, 29th, 28th, 27th, 24th and 22nd in the league. While I'm convinced that over 82 games Vegas are a more consistent and therefore better team than the Habs people seem to have forgotten which teams are in the western division and even worse medias have managed to brrainwash people.

I think the series against Colorado is a big reason why they are being talked about like they are, the way they dominated after game 1 was incredibly impressive and there aren't a whole lot of teams who can shut down the Colorado offense by playing an even better offensive hockey. They've also reached the conference final for 3/4 seasons so they deserve some hype.

They could shut up about Fluery for 5min though, everything he does (and doesn't do) is apparently game saving and out of this world. I keep rolling my eyes so hard over this that I'm afraid I'll get a cramp soon.

 

[JPRouve]

I think the series against Colorado is a big reason why they are being talked about like they are, the way they dominated after game 1 was incredibly impressive and there aren't a whole lot of teams who can shut down the Colorado offense by playing an even better offensive hockey. They've also reached the conference final for 3/4 seasons so they deserve some hype.

They could shut up about Fluery for 5min though, everything he does (and doesn't do) is apparently game saving and out of this world. I keep rolling my eyes so hard over this that I'm afraid I'll get a cramp soon.

No, the hype has been a constant for months, it's mainly due to the regular season. Vegas are an excellent team but there are many reasons to temper the hyperboles, last year they only beat Vancouver in 7 games, They lost to Dallas in 5 games, they have a terrible record against Montreal and they are in an objectively weak division with several teams rebuilding.

 

[Zlaatan]

No, the hype has been a constant for months, it's mainly due to the regular season. Vegas are an excellent team but there are many reasons to temper the hyperboles, last year they only beat Vancouver in 7 games, They lost to Dallas in 5 games, they have a terrible record against Montreal and they are in an objectively weak division with several teams rebuilding.

How many games it took for them to win a series last year is a bit of a strange one to beat them with, as is their record against one specific team.

I don't consume much of North American sports media so maybe they are overhyped over there, but the stuff I have seen is far from over the top imo. They did also keep up with Colorado throughout the season and only lost out on the Presidents trophy by having less regulation wins, and ending up with the same amount of points as the team that was arguably the favorites to win the SC should earn you some cred.

 

[JPRouve]

How many games it took for them to win a series last year is a bit of a strange one to beat them with, as is their record against one specific team.

I don't consume much of North American sports media so maybe they are overhyped over there, but the stuff I have seen is far from over the top imo. They did also keep up with Colorado throughout the season and only lost out on the Presidents trophy by having less regulation wins, and ending up with the same amount of points as the team that was arguably the favorites to win the SC should earn you some cred.

I'm not beating them they are an excellent team but they are still overrated because their rating is based on underrating other divisions. The context of their hype is based on the idea that other divisions were weak and that Colorado and Vegas records were an accurate representation of the entire league. That claim is strange when the west division is mainly made of teams that are actually bad and have been bad in recent years, it's not something that happened this season. Unlike other years this season, teams didn't play outside of their own division and pretty much every division that isn't the west division has been downgraded by pundits which is strange and can't be supported by the recent history of each divisions.

 

[Cheimoon]

Christ, Fleury must be feeling bad now! The Habs were on top anyway, and that would have become worse once they would have subbed off their goalie; but they weren't creating great chances yet (unlike during overtime). So if Fleury doesn't make that error, there's a good chance the game ends 2-1, or 3-1 through an empty-net goal.

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Watching this also made me realize again how little I understand hockey tactics. I have a (very) long way to go still until I can make sense of all the action. Nice play for the final goal though.

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Nice save, too:

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Don't think I'd be able to get up again if I tried that.

 

[Zlaatan]

I'm not beating them they are an excellent team but they are still overrated because their rating is based on underrating other divisions. The context of their hype is based on the idea that other leagues were weak and that Colorado and Vegas records were an accurate representation of the entire league. That claim is strange when the west division is mainly made of teams that are actually bad and have been bad in recent years, it's not something that happened this season. Unlike other years this season, teams didn't play outside of their own division and pretty much every division that isn't the west division has been downgraded by pundits which is strange and can't be supported by the recent history of each divisions.

Fair enough.

 

[WeePat]

Well will you look at that. The 4th best team in the pathetic North division is 2-1 up in the series against the greatest, most bestest team hockey has ever seen.

 

[Tribec]

Well will you look at that. The 4th best team in the pathetic North division is 2-1 up in the series against the greatest, most bestest team hockey has ever seen.

Got to give credit to the Habs, after battling back against the Leafs and dominating the Jets, they've responded to a defeat with two hard earned wins themselves. They are on a roll right now and as much as I hate to see any Canadian team that isn't from Edmonton win, with the momentum they've got right now anything is possible.


In other news it's good to see that Liam Kirk has been given an ELC by the Coyotes, he's still some way off but this gives him a chance to step up again and prove himself at the next level, which he always seems to do.

 

[JPRouve]

Well will you look at that. The 4th best team in the pathetic North division is 2-1 up in the series against the greatest, most bestest team hockey has ever seen.

But Fleury gifted a goal.

No, Staal's assist didn't happen.