I'm sure they can. We're not talking about "a keeper" though are we, we're talking about DDG.
No.1 for next season - De Gea or Henderson?
- Thread starter saivet
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What are the unique characteristics that make improvement impossible in De Gea then?
Van der Sar was 30 when he signed for Fulham for instance. It's not really a great age for a keeper.
De Geee Ya! De Heeey Ya!
Honestly not sure that there is a clear choice for number one next season and despite all the rumours I don't think it is likely we are going to sign another keeper this summer. Donnarumma on a free maybe but part of the reason his contract is running down is because he wants a massive wage.
With the impacts of COVID leaving so many teams broke or managing on a fraction of their usual budgets I would not be surprised to see us punt the decision for another 12 months and look to work out a loan deal for Henderson. I know he wanted no part of being loaned out this year but he is under contract for a few more seasons and if it is to a different profile of club than Sheffield Utd, a contending club on the continent for example, he might be sold on that as a good developmental opportunity. As an outlier, there may also be a chance to send DDG out on loan to a team in Spain if he wants to be closer to his family but we would probably need to subsidize a lot of his wages and I don't think the board would go for that.
In 2022 the financial issues should be gone and we will have a clearer idea than we do now of whether Henderson can make the grade or if DDG is going to return to his best form, as mentioned in earlier posts several keepers, including our own Van Der Sar, had mid career dips in form before evolving and improving in their later years.
With the impacts of COVID leaving so many teams broke or managing on a fraction of their usual budgets I would not be surprised to see us punt the decision for another 12 months and look to work out a loan deal for Henderson. I know he wanted no part of being loaned out this year but he is under contract for a few more seasons and if it is to a different profile of club than Sheffield Utd, a contending club on the continent for example, he might be sold on that as a good developmental opportunity. As an outlier, there may also be a chance to send DDG out on loan to a team in Spain if he wants to be closer to his family but we would probably need to subsidize a lot of his wages and I don't think the board would go for that.
In 2022 the financial issues should be gone and we will have a clearer idea than we do now of whether Henderson can make the grade or if DDG is going to return to his best form, as mentioned in earlier posts several keepers, including our own Van Der Sar, had mid career dips in form before evolving and improving in their later years.
Well, the downward trajectory over the last couple of years is my big indicator. Do tell me what yours is.
And Van der Sar moved clubs for a fresh start to recover his form.
Some of the nonsense on the Caf makes me embarrassed to even read. Anyone that thinks we could, or would, loan out a 350k a week 30 year old goalkeeper needs to screw their head back on. Same for anyone thinking we can sell DDG as if anyone else is going to fly in with 350k goalkeeper wages. De Gea is here to stay so you may as well stop wasting time with pointless speculation.
I don't really understand the fuss about all of this. In my honest opinion, it's very clear that DDG should be the first choice goalkeeper. Henderson has the credentials to be the first choice in the future, and as Ole is doing (easing him in and letting him gain experience) is the correct way of doing it.
Henderson has done nothing to show he deserves 1st choice over DDG. there's big doubts as to whether he ever deserves that spot.
That doesn't make it impossible for him to regain focus or form though. If a player picks up an injury you can say he'll never regain form but outside of that there's no reason.
Most players will go through fluctuations in form. If there's an expectation that De Gea had to not have a single bad patch during his goalkeeping career with us that's very harsh.
What helped De Gea from the start was that he has exceptional reflexes and this unfortunately can't be coached or gained, you either have it or not, but as an overall GK he improved a lot from his first season to what he has become since Moyes season from what I remember and this is the role of GK coaches. I'm sure Henderson can improve this aspect over time, or that's what I hope.
The problem is that De Gea is a keeper who has always relied almost entirely on being one of the best pure shot stoppers of all time. Pretty much every other aspect of his game is average or worse, and he's never shown any significant improvement in those areas.
Keepers who play on until a good age tend to be ones who have strong all-round games who can compensate for losing some of their agility. The keeper that De Gea was most often compared to was Casillas, another one who relied very heavily on reflexes and agility. Casillas dropped off badly once he got to 29 or 30, and there has always been a worry that De Gea would do the same.
DDG has proven over the last three years that he doesn't deserve to be #1 anymore. Nobody knows whether Henderson can take that role, but the only way to find out is for him to get an extended run. Now obviously if he starts regularly having absolute shockers then we can bring DDG back in to get us through the rest of the season, and that gives us our answer so we can look to sign somebody else in the summer (Donnarumma on a free?). The hope will be Henderson steps up but it'll be up to him to do so.
His reflexes at Atleti was amazing too. I remember I was watching a game and he literally was clawing impossible saves one game.
I think you're arguing for the sake of it.
De Gea is a keeper who used to be exceptional at some things and relatively average at others. He's no longer exceptional at the things he was and hasn't been for at least 2 years. He may well regain his form one day, but it won't be with Manchester United. I'm guessing you already know this, though.
If i were the manager and thinking purely logically, I would sell both and sign a new #1
To win league titles you have to be ruthless in your decision making. And i don't honestly see us winning another league title with either of them.
My heart says De Gea can still refind his best form. And i'm sure the club will pin their hopes on that too and strengthen other areas.
To win league titles you have to be ruthless in your decision making. And i don't honestly see us winning another league title with either of them.
My heart says De Gea can still refind his best form. And i'm sure the club will pin their hopes on that too and strengthen other areas.
agree about DDG. frankly i don't think either are good enough anymore (although i do think we have bigger problems in the squad than DDG). Donnarumma would be perfect, i'd be throwing him a massive contract that Milan couldn't compete with.
Fair point but there have been other keepers with insane reflexes who didn't regress quite so soon.
I just don't buy that it's a physical or age deterioration with him, just a loss of form. I'd give him another season and see if he recovers or reinvents himself to compensate.
Some here seem to be under the impression that he's been shit for 3 seasons though so i can understand why they want him gone. I just think it's bollocks.
I honestly have no idea how good Donnarumma is. I know a few years ago I didn't think he was as good as what the hype made out, but of course he was so ridiculously young that he still looked quite likely to go on to be one of the best. However it also wouldn't have surprised me if he was just an early bloomer and never quite took the step up to the very top level. I basically haven't watched him play the last two or three years so I don't know how that rate of improvement has been.
He cost us top 4 and a CL spot in 18/19 with an incredibly bad last two months of that season. Last season he made mistakes in most (or was it all?) of the semi's that we lost. This season he's let in at least three goals off the top of my head just because he's been so weak and scared of contact, one of which knocked us out of the CL. Add in at least another three goals this season he's conceded because he refused to come out for a ball that he 100% should have (there's also been a few others that he perhaps could have but they were a bit riskier).
At the start of this season he had seemed to improve a bit over 18/19 and 19/20 (still only up to an 'acceptable' level, nothing more), but after a couple of months he dropped back off and has been poor again since.
De Gea is clearly the better keeper today, but to properly answer the question we need to be honest about the runway ahead of us to become a favorite for the PL and PL trophies.
It’s not going to happen next season.
If we can find a club willing to take Dave’s wages this summer we can go with Dean next season and develop him into a world class keeper (the potential us there) for the PL and CL run we can’t credibly anticipate for the 22/23 season.
But if we believe we’ll be there next season, we better keep Dave. Dean has done work ahead of him to reach Dave’s level.
It’s not going to happen next season.
If we can find a club willing to take Dave’s wages this summer we can go with Dean next season and develop him into a world class keeper (the potential us there) for the PL and CL run we can’t credibly anticipate for the 22/23 season.
But if we believe we’ll be there next season, we better keep Dave. Dean has done work ahead of him to reach Dave’s level.
That's on the assumption that DeGea will prioritise staying on 300k + on the bench rather than being closer to his family which seems to have been on the back of his mind for the past 3 years.
When you start a post saying he cost us top 4 i really can't take the rest seriously. Entitled to your opinion but that's clearly just an agenda as if we were fine other than De Gea
Same elements missing from De Gea’s game in his earlier years still missing ten years later. If he’s not got them now and got this far, will he ever?
Re, Van Der Sar, by contrast, he was a top, top all round keeper when he started out and before Juve so only returned to those levels after 30. Only at Juve for two years.
Do you remember how bad he was in the final couple of months of that season? For most of the last three seasons he's been average to poor, but during those months he was truly diabolical. He was basically throwing the ball into his own net every second match.When you start a post saying he cost us top 4 i really can't take the rest seriously. Entitled to your opinion but that's clearly just an agenda as if we were fine other than De Gea
Maybe putting 100% of the blame was harsh since others weren't playing well either, but he definitely was the most to blame.
It’s a shame, as the season or two before he probably won us at least 10 points.
I like Henderson (and DDG has been a great GK around 13-17) but dear I say Pope if we can't sign Oblak?
Will be overlooked by many big clubs because he's not good enough with his feet. We can dispute whether that should or shouldn't happen, but it absolutely will.
Would not be at all surprised if it was neither. I have a feeling Nick Pope is being considered and I wouldn't be sad to see him sign - and let Romero stay as the number two
Romero has no future here, doubt he wants one at all after how he's been treated this season. I'd be astounded if he stuck around.
Agreed - but I can hope! Can't see either DDG or Hendo agreeing to be back-up
Nor should they with the promises that have seemingly been made. The club has created its own issues with the GK situation.
An ooverrated pron IMO. Just look at Ederson. Good with his feet but an absolute clown on more than one occasion.
Pisses me off how we’ve treated him tbh. Never put a foot wrong for us, was always fit and ready, never complained, basically a model professional who’s shown twice the loyalty of De Gea and we can’t even have him on the bench.
I’d definitely have him here as back up to Henderson.
Same here. Henderson is the new king and Romero is a good backup. We don’t need to spend money on a GK.
I'm still not sure. Mostly because if there's much of a muchness between the two and we'll need to sign a new goalkeeper in the next few windows anyway then I could see how it might make sense to sell Henderson for funds now and keep De Gea rather than keep Henderson and struggle to shift De Gea. Though that depends on how much we'd get for Henderson too, I suppose..
What I do know is that we need to see as much of Henderson as we can this season so we have a better idea of where he is.
What I do know is that we need to see as much of Henderson as we can this season so we have a better idea of where he is.
In Deano we trust
I will start an online petition for him as n°1
I will start an online petition for him as n°1
Henderson deserves a whole season as a no1. Don’t need to spend on another gk.
Nick Pope could be a very smart signing if we are not convinced by Henderson and De Gea. He is only 28, as well. You don't have to go for someone ridiculously young again.
Shots Saved
He is one of the highest in terms of save percentage, but he also seems to at least match or better in all of the below areas. (This season he has saved 101 from 130 shots on target - 77.7%) - Amongst the usual top goalkeepers, he is only beaten by Oblak in terms of save percentage. De Gea also concedes more per 90 this season than Pope.
In comparison, De Gea has saved 53 from 77 (67.5% shots saved).
Percentage and number of crosses collected
1. Pope - 270 faced (33 collected) - 12.2%
2. Areola - 285 (31 collected) - 10.9%
3. Ramsdale - 275 (28 collected) - 10.2%
9 - Alisson - 141 (12 collected) - 8.5%
11 - Mendy - 171 (12 collected) - 7%
13 - Ederson - 148 (10 collected) - 6.8%
20 - De Gea - 184 faced (9 collected) - 4.9%
I think Pope was top last season, as well. Smaller teams obviously face more crosses, but De Gea's collection rate is even low for goalkeepers at the top sides. Pope would be a massive improvement on this side of things.
Passing Accuracy
1. Mendy - 225 passes over 40 yards (50.7% accuracy)
10 - De Gea - 192 passes over 40 yards (41.7% accuracy)
13 - Pope - 661 passes over 40 yards (39.6% accuracy)
Martinez and Areola have similar attempts and accuracies to Pope. I actually think their percentages are brought down by the sheer number they have to play, and the requirement to clear the area more often than bigger sides. I think Pope's accuracy wouldn't be any worse than De Gea if he was here, so we wouldn't be going down on this side of things.
Sweeping (Defensive actions outside of box per 90)
1. Alisson - 1.46
2. Pope - 1.29
4 - Mendy - 0.75
16 - De Gea - 0.38
De Gea doesn't seem to be very willing to defend out of his box, which you can see in matches. Pope would improve us a lot in this area.
Henderson for me. Feels like a good time for De Gea to leave as well with his first child arriving. Ideally you want to be living in the same country as the mother of your child.