Ideal situation would be to offload De Gea for a sizable fee in the summer and then give Henderson the chance next year. Sadly, I don't see that happening.
No.1 for next season - De Gea or Henderson?
- Thread starter saivet
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I’ve been supportive of De Gea in this period, always thinking that an in form De Gea is better than anybody we could hope for between the sticks.
That said, the way this is panning out with Henderson having a six game spell, I dunno, it just feels like a changing of the guard.
It seems strange for David to take this extended break at a time when a quality keeper is absolutely breathing down his neck for the no. 1 spot. Players usually miss a single game and that’s if the birth conflicts with game day.
Perhaps there is some agreement in the background that he can move on this summer? Perhaps he’s willing to take a pay cut to give his missus her wish of living in Spain together?
But if that’s the case who’s signing him? Not the Madrid clubs you wouldn’t think.
That said, the way this is panning out with Henderson having a six game spell, I dunno, it just feels like a changing of the guard.
It seems strange for David to take this extended break at a time when a quality keeper is absolutely breathing down his neck for the no. 1 spot. Players usually miss a single game and that’s if the birth conflicts with game day.
Perhaps there is some agreement in the background that he can move on this summer? Perhaps he’s willing to take a pay cut to give his missus her wish of living in Spain together?
But if that’s the case who’s signing him? Not the Madrid clubs you wouldn’t think.
There will be no Sizeable fees paid for any player next few windows relative to pre Covid transfer fees. Those days are over apart from PSG and City - Maybe Chelsea.
Although maybe FFP should do its job there should be no big fees.
No, you are probably right. But a moderate fee and clearing some wage budget would also be OK, I guess.
A nominal fee would be fine with me, just to get his wages off the books.
Seeing a goalie not rooted to his line, was so refreshing. I found myself thinking, "De Gea wouldn't have come for that." and imagining the panic that would have ensued.
I also understand why some want to stick with Dave. He was great when we needed him, at our lowest. It just feels like his spectacular crumbling, for Spain, has robbed him of confidence or something.
Maybe, defenders being unable to get away with some of their shenanigans, due to VAR, also raises the importance of having a keeper that commands his box.
Whatever the intricacies, I just feel it is the right time to change.
That doesn't mean because Foster couldn't do it Henderson can't?
Henderson seems to be hungry to get the no.1 jersey, has had 1 season on loan like Foster did.
The difference is he has looked good when he has played for us, Foster had alot of issues, he couldn't hack the pressure of being Manutd number 1.
Henderson deserves an extended run in the first team, now is the time to change it up.
DDG is a shadow of the player he once was, and it's pretty clear now he isn't ever going to be that same keeper for us again. Henderson has looked decent in his last few games; he's got bags of confidence and is a lot more commanding than De Gea. He is what this team really needs, it's now a case of testing him to see if he has the ability.
DDG is a shadow of the player he once was, and it's pretty clear now he isn't ever going to be that same keeper for us again. Henderson has looked decent in his last few games; he's got bags of confidence and is a lot more commanding than De Gea. He is what this team really needs, it's now a case of testing him to see if he has the ability.
I'm quite happy to wait and see. My thoughts are he's gone.
I am hearing quite a bit from the experts on youtube that "Henderson did well but he didn't really get tested today". At what point do they realize that this isn't a coincidence?
Vs West Ham "he didn't really get tested"
Vs Real Sociedad "he didn't really get tested"
Vs City "he didn't really get tested"
Amazing how a vocal keeper who isn't glued to his line and plays his angles right "doesn't really get tested" and how a Maguire and Lindelof partnership actually looks good with a proper keeper behind them...
There was one save in particular that Henderson made yesterday that really caught my eye. Maguire (I think) was in position that was taking away Henderson's right side of goal so Henderson shifted to his left. A low hard shot was hit and Henderson took a step to his left and dealt with it easily. De Gea's fear of getting off his goal line is well documented. What many don't notice is his positioning on shots. Had this been De Gea in goal there is no doubt in my mind that he would have saved the shot, but he wouldn't have been cheating to his left and would have had to dive to make the save. He just doesn't play his angles right and is often in the wrong position when a shot is taken.
Case in point. Go to around the :50 point. Rodriguez scores what the pundits called "a screamer". But look at De Gea's positioning. Maguire is taking away the entire left side of De Gea's goal so all the Rodriguez can see is near post. So De Gea should be cheating to his right and out about 5 yards to cut the angle. If he is, then it's a routine save
Then look at this goal. We all know about the one De Gea let slip through his fingers, but as bad as that was, it's not a reason to give up on him. "Big mistakes" where the keeper is at fault for the goal don't bother me as much. Those likely won't happen. It's the mistakes that most people don't know about that really bother me. Messi shoots far post and it goes off the post and in. It looks like a great shot. But Smalling is taking away the entire left side of De Gea's goal and Messi is moving across goal. De Gea should see this and be moving to his right. Instead he is planted pretty much in the middle (the angle from behind really shows it). If he's shifting his feet with this (as Henderson does) he makes a routine save. But because he's out of position, it goes in the net off the post (pause it at 1:42 to see what part of the net Messi can see and where De Gea is standing when the shot is taken). There is also no doubt in my mind that De Gea a couple years ago would have made that save. But each year he loses a little bit of the spring in his step, which is why knowledge of his position becomes so much more important
And these are just two examples. There have been several occasions where I have noticed things that most don't (I've been a keeper most of my life). And on many of those occasions where I have pointed out De Gea's flaws I have been insulted and ignored. People are finally starting to catch on to his glaring mistakes, but I'm telling you there is a reason why Henderson "rarely gets tested" in the matches he plays. He will never be as agile as De Gea was but I am convinced that we will concede less goals with Henderson than we will with De Gea.
Henderson is becoming a great keeper. De Gea is a keeper who makes great saves...There's a huge difference
@Grande
Vs West Ham "he didn't really get tested"
Vs Real Sociedad "he didn't really get tested"
Vs City "he didn't really get tested"
Amazing how a vocal keeper who isn't glued to his line and plays his angles right "doesn't really get tested" and how a Maguire and Lindelof partnership actually looks good with a proper keeper behind them...
There was one save in particular that Henderson made yesterday that really caught my eye. Maguire (I think) was in position that was taking away Henderson's right side of goal so Henderson shifted to his left. A low hard shot was hit and Henderson took a step to his left and dealt with it easily. De Gea's fear of getting off his goal line is well documented. What many don't notice is his positioning on shots. Had this been De Gea in goal there is no doubt in my mind that he would have saved the shot, but he wouldn't have been cheating to his left and would have had to dive to make the save. He just doesn't play his angles right and is often in the wrong position when a shot is taken.
Case in point. Go to around the :50 point. Rodriguez scores what the pundits called "a screamer". But look at De Gea's positioning. Maguire is taking away the entire left side of De Gea's goal so all the Rodriguez can see is near post. So De Gea should be cheating to his right and out about 5 yards to cut the angle. If he is, then it's a routine save
Then look at this goal. We all know about the one De Gea let slip through his fingers, but as bad as that was, it's not a reason to give up on him. "Big mistakes" where the keeper is at fault for the goal don't bother me as much. Those likely won't happen. It's the mistakes that most people don't know about that really bother me. Messi shoots far post and it goes off the post and in. It looks like a great shot. But Smalling is taking away the entire left side of De Gea's goal and Messi is moving across goal. De Gea should see this and be moving to his right. Instead he is planted pretty much in the middle (the angle from behind really shows it). If he's shifting his feet with this (as Henderson does) he makes a routine save. But because he's out of position, it goes in the net off the post (pause it at 1:42 to see what part of the net Messi can see and where De Gea is standing when the shot is taken). There is also no doubt in my mind that De Gea a couple years ago would have made that save. But each year he loses a little bit of the spring in his step, which is why knowledge of his position becomes so much more important
And these are just two examples. There have been several occasions where I have noticed things that most don't (I've been a keeper most of my life). And on many of those occasions where I have pointed out De Gea's flaws I have been insulted and ignored. People are finally starting to catch on to his glaring mistakes, but I'm telling you there is a reason why Henderson "rarely gets tested" in the matches he plays. He will never be as agile as De Gea was but I am convinced that we will concede less goals with Henderson than we will with De Gea.
Henderson is becoming a great keeper. De Gea is a keeper who makes great saves...There's a huge difference
@Grande
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Our entire back line plays with more confidence when Henderson is in goal. He is more commanding, vocal and authoritative, and more willing to come out to claim crosses or sweep up long balls. This latter part is also important when our CBs lack pace, as it allows them to push a bit higher up the pitch safe in the knowledge that Henderson has a good chance of having things covered behind them.
Henderson isnt a world class shot stopper, but that is fine for two reasons;
1) By nature of the fact that our entire defence is better organised, the opponent has fewer chances by default. Its comparable to the old Rio/Terry debates - you can have a keeper who is great at pulling off those last ditch saves (or tackles, in Terry's case), or you can have a keeper who stops things before they even reach that point so he doesnt NEED to constantly pull off big saves.
2) When teams park the bus against us and we dominate possession like we should be doing, its more important to have a keeper with good distribution, organisation on the back line, and sweeping.
Bottom line is as @SadlerMUFC says above - Henderson doesnt get tested as much and doesnt need to constantly pull off world class saves because he snuffs out the danger before it reaches that point. Either directly by claiming a high ball or sweeping up behind the CBs, or indirectly by being commanding and authoritative enough that the back line make fewer mistakes, leading to fewer chances, or just through better positioning.
I am hopeful that having spent time in Spain with his family & newborn, De Gea will realise that it will be worth potentially taking a pay cut if it means being able to be with them all the time. If he is prepared to drop his wage demands a bit then I could see a non-Barca/Real Spanish team coming in for him. That would probably be the ideal scenario for all parties.
Henderson isnt a world class shot stopper, but that is fine for two reasons;
1) By nature of the fact that our entire defence is better organised, the opponent has fewer chances by default. Its comparable to the old Rio/Terry debates - you can have a keeper who is great at pulling off those last ditch saves (or tackles, in Terry's case), or you can have a keeper who stops things before they even reach that point so he doesnt NEED to constantly pull off big saves.
2) When teams park the bus against us and we dominate possession like we should be doing, its more important to have a keeper with good distribution, organisation on the back line, and sweeping.
Bottom line is as @SadlerMUFC says above - Henderson doesnt get tested as much and doesnt need to constantly pull off world class saves because he snuffs out the danger before it reaches that point. Either directly by claiming a high ball or sweeping up behind the CBs, or indirectly by being commanding and authoritative enough that the back line make fewer mistakes, leading to fewer chances, or just through better positioning.
I am hopeful that having spent time in Spain with his family & newborn, De Gea will realise that it will be worth potentially taking a pay cut if it means being able to be with them all the time. If he is prepared to drop his wage demands a bit then I could see a non-Barca/Real Spanish team coming in for him. That would probably be the ideal scenario for all parties.
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Henderson is far better at communicating with his back four, which for me outweighs any slight edge De Gea might have in shot-stopping.
Awesome post this one.
I definitely disagree there. I've always thought that was arguably VDS' best season of all, and probably the only season in his career where he was the best keeper in the world (partly because none of his competitors had a great season).
There's a difference between given a run of games to impress versus getting 1-2 games a month like what Dean was having previously.
He basically wasted half a season sitting on the bench when he could have went out on loan and make a proper claim for the starting job for England and us by next season.
Neuer had a great year in 10/11. I’d say he was already the best keeper in the world by then, just didn’t play for a top team yet. Still, CL semi with Schalke is nothing to sniff at.
VdS got a bit of a bad rap that season due to his rare clanger in our 2-2 draw with Fulham at home, was otherwise solid throughout the season, played particularly well vs Chelsea in the CL tie against them I thought.
This is a big month for Henderson, we'll have a good idea by the end of this month if Henderson is ready or not.
I'm glad it happened organically like this, instead of having to drop DeGea.
If Henderson shows he's good enough to be first choice next season, I wouldn't mind selling DeGea to fund a few signings elsewhere.
I'm glad it happened organically like this, instead of having to drop DeGea.
If Henderson shows he's good enough to be first choice next season, I wouldn't mind selling DeGea to fund a few signings elsewhere.
True that. With the megabucks he is on, it would be quite impossible to offload DDG, unless he agrees to earn less but stay closer to his family. Deano does indeed deserves to start. The guy is growing game by game and is yet to peak despite being a very solid keeper already.
not at all.
he couldn’t have expected to have walked into the non1 position, and furthermore wouldn’t have been promised a run of games.
it’s a transition and, this is how it works.
another loan would have done him no good at all. We wouldn’t have known whether he could cope with the pressure, scrutiny and exposure of playing at Man United.
there is a world of difference between playing for Man United and Sheff United.
if he was on loan, We would have no idea whether he was capable of playing for Man Utd would we?
I think most fans are in agreement that Henderson should get a chance now and the chips have fallen pretty nicely so that he gets a run, it is a shame to see what has happened to DDG but it would be nice if he leaves amicably with a big benefit of living with his family. Seems best for all parties.
I love the fact Henderson is a Utd fan.
A worry is, who do we sign as no. 2 as DDG and Romero leaving and Grant is nowhere near good enough?
I love the fact Henderson is a Utd fan.
A worry is, who do we sign as no. 2 as DDG and Romero leaving and Grant is nowhere near good enough?
Henderson - DDG is good but nowhere near the 375k a week were paying for him - he looks like a new challenge would actually benefit him on a personal level. Its a question of who will match his salary expectations. Henderson has shown enough for me. I can see de Gea going full Gareth Bale and sitting getting splinters in his arse running his contract down.
May not be Dean, but it's not De Gea.
De Gea is a great keeper for a mid table team (we kind of were at his prime, so he shined).
Best in the world at shot stopping in his prime, and still excellent at it, but mediocre at the rest, and probably the worst I've ever seen at penalties.
We should be controlling the ball and attacking, and many times, that starts from the keeper's distribution, and his is not good enough.
Not vocal enough and not commanding enough
It's not just a CB pairing... It's a CB and Keeper triangle and ours has always failed and he has part of responsibility too. Problem was, Romero was mediocre always too.
I've been thinking about all the attacks and goals we've received from runners in AWB's back. Has always been DDG at goal in those?
Since the keeper is the one who has the better view, and is able to see the runner for much before, I don't know if he is telling his defense about danger or organizing them to be better positioned.
And finally he lacks the fear factor that world class keepers need.
In set pieces every attacker crowd him and no one is scared to be hurt. Too skinny, too scared to make physical contact, he is absolutely bullied in the PL.
De Gea is a great keeper for a mid table team (we kind of were at his prime, so he shined).
Best in the world at shot stopping in his prime, and still excellent at it, but mediocre at the rest, and probably the worst I've ever seen at penalties.
We should be controlling the ball and attacking, and many times, that starts from the keeper's distribution, and his is not good enough.
Not vocal enough and not commanding enough
It's not just a CB pairing... It's a CB and Keeper triangle and ours has always failed and he has part of responsibility too. Problem was, Romero was mediocre always too.
I've been thinking about all the attacks and goals we've received from runners in AWB's back. Has always been DDG at goal in those?
Since the keeper is the one who has the better view, and is able to see the runner for much before, I don't know if he is telling his defense about danger or organizing them to be better positioned.
And finally he lacks the fear factor that world class keepers need.
In set pieces every attacker crowd him and no one is scared to be hurt. Too skinny, too scared to make physical contact, he is absolutely bullied in the PL.
Was very noticeable we were playing higher up the pitch against the City. Maybe that's something you can only do when you have a keeper that'll come off his line when needed.
Don't know which game you watched, BBC had City with six shots on target.
De Gea has been wonderful for a long long time and he is one of the legends of United and will always be in the running for one of the great keepers at the club but I think it is time he went to PSG or somewhere else and give Henderson a proper chance to show his skills between the sticks. The fact the De Gea is a dad now and is missing a few games has invariably given Henderson to prove his worth. I think he has grabbed this chance and shown he can do well under pressure and we have this added bonus that he is incredibly vocal and the defense line and has pushed forward because they feel very comfortable having him sweep up behind them. That throw for Shaw's goal was something I hadn't seen a United keeper do in a long while, De Gea doesn't have a good passing range but he's brilliant in front of goal. I hope Henderson is everything De Gea is and more. I hope we start with Henderson in goal for the new season and De Gea can go out with the Europa League victory under his belt.
The Sociedad game..
Many thanks for this post
Soooo as I was saying. Anyone for Donnarumma on a free 
Hendo has been good but that was shocking. All he had to do was stand up.
we didn’t really deserve the win though.
Hendo has been good but that was shocking. All he had to do was stand up.
we didn’t really deserve the win though.
As William Munney (Clint Eastwood) says in the movie Unforgiven, "Deserve has nothing to do with it".Soooo as I was saying. Anyone for Donnarumma on a free
Hendo has been good but that was shocking. All he had to do was stand up.
we didn’t really deserve the win though.
One of the truest statements ever made.
De Gea has let in several goals like that over the past few seasons.Soooo as I was saying. Anyone for Donnarumma on a free
Hendo has been good but that was shocking. All he had to do was stand up.
we didn’t really deserve the win though.
Nothing to worry about from Henderson unless it becomes a regular occurrence.
You guys know that Dean Henderson is the fastest goalkeeper to be dressed as one (Guinness World Record)?
Henderson's shot stopping seems to be average but I honestly don't find this a big problem. Pretty sure if we have a proper GK coach he can make him better in it eventually.
How is it not a big problem? If you aren’t good at stopping shots, presumably going into the goal, then what’s the point of having a keeper?
I have had issues with De Gea’s unwillingness to command his defence and be proactive for a long time, but let’s not excuse a pretty dire shortcoming for a keeper just because he happens to be better than De Gea at some stuffs.
It's not a big problem because it's something that can be improved on and developed by a proper GK coach. Many GKs improve in such aspects over the time. De Gea himself improved.
I don't know if De Gea should be the number 1 next year or not, but I know that Henderson shouldn't. I have yet to see anything by him that convinces me that he is a top-quality keeper. Don't get me wrong, he is definitely good enough for EPL and likely is gonna have a good career like Shay Given. He might become a poor men's Joe Hart (at his peak), or reach Pickford's level, but I do not see him doing better than that (and there is a good reason why both Pickford and Pope are ahead of him for England, despite that neither is that great).
Disclaimer: not based on yesterday's mistake, I have been saying this since he was at Sheffield.
Disclaimer: not based on yesterday's mistake, I have been saying this since he was at Sheffield.
Yep. Also one of these keepers is young and will only improve with time, the other will not.
People have very short and selective memories, the last time we played a team that pressed us hard in Europe De Gea hardly covered himself in glory.
He's another one of our overpaid players whose actually better when he doesn't play.
He's another one of our overpaid players whose actually better when he doesn't play.
Bit of a worry if his shot stopping does turn out to be average as that was the main reason he got praise at Sheffield United. He's good at claiming crosses too but it's not like he's a Ederson/Alison style sweeper with great distribution.
Crazy forum.. DDG makes a mistake, hysteria and clamour for Henderson to start.... Henderson makes a mistake and hysteria and DDG is still number 1 And Henderson’s not ready..
all humans make a mistake outfield players make several every game (Fred makes 10 every game) but as they dont always lead to goal conceded they get forgotten. A keeper makes one mistake every 10 games and they are hung out too dry. The perfect mistake free keeper does not exist unless its a Robot. Humans make mistakes all ways have always will.
all humans make a mistake outfield players make several every game (Fred makes 10 every game) but as they dont always lead to goal conceded they get forgotten. A keeper makes one mistake every 10 games and they are hung out too dry. The perfect mistake free keeper does not exist unless its a Robot. Humans make mistakes all ways have always will.
De Gea was an exceptional shot stopper from the very start. He let in two tame long range shots in his first two games due to nerves ( one vs City and one vs West Brom in season opener), which might have lead to the reputation, but teams tried the same tactic with him for the rest of that season and didn’t get any joy from it.
Off the top of my head, top GKs of the past few decades always had great reflexes and shot stopping from a young age. Kahn, VdS, Big Pete, Casillas, Cech, Lehman, Buffon, Neuer, Navas, Oblak, so on and so forth. The only notable exception I can think of is Valdes and even he was no slouch either . And we need that level of quality.
You dont think a keeper can improve from the age of 30? You sure about that?