No chance of top 4 after incompetently handled transfer window ft 1000000% more tears and drama

ivaldo

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‘No chance of top 4...’

Urgh this place is going to be unbearable this seasick isn’t it?
 

fergie_god

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Like Milan we're a finished club. Woodward will continue to drive us into the ground while the Glazers pat him on the back for getting a new butt plug sponsor.
After the initial disappointment of the shitshow that was the last week I'm trying to think of scenarios where we can have a successful season. If McTominay builds on his preseason and can be a good partner for pogba in a 2man midfield, if he actually can play the holding midfield position at an adequate level, and if Fred can play better more consistently I think we can hold up until January. Getting in a midfielder during that window could really be key to having a moderately successful season.

While it's pretty appalling the way we ran our transfers with lukaku leaving on the last day (as if we didn't have the rest of the month to sell him) and putting in shit bids for players unlikely to join us, we might just stumble our way to a decent season.

Maguire really needs to have a huge impact for any of this to be possible though.
 

Sing you a song

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Can anyone tell me if Degea has signed his new contract yet ?
I was under the impression that he wanted to see who we signed before committing.If that’s the case we may have a problem looming .
 

Hawks2008

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After the initial disappointment of the shitshow that was the last week I'm trying to think of scenarios where we can have a successful season. If McTominay builds on his preseason and can be a good partner for pogba in a 2man midfield, if he actually can play the holding midfield position at an adequate level, and if Fred can play better more consistently I think we can hold up until January. Getting in a midfielder during that window could really be key to having a moderately successful season.

While it's pretty appalling the way we ran our transfers with lukaku leaving on the last day (as if we didn't have the rest of the month to sell him) and putting in shit bids for players unlikely to join us, we might just stumble our way to a decent season.

Maguire really needs to have a huge impact for any of this to be possible though.
Problem is that an injury to Pogba and we've got a bottom-half level midfield. I like Scott, he will have a good season but not enough to elevate us unless he develops into a top player very quickly. Beyond that I have no faith in Fred, Andreas, or Matic. Even if they all play good, it won't mean much if our forwards continue to be limp. Our season rides on Ole getting our underperformers to become consistent, I've seen these guys let down multiple coaches and the fans time after time and they don't seem care so I'm not holding my breath. My only hope is that Maguire and AWB shore up the defence and we can grind out 1-0 type results all season.
 

Fahad Jawaid

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Actually what people are forgetting here is we are Manutd. We should not be content and targetting top 4. The sad part is we will be starting this season with the sole purpose of hoping to achieve top 4, which is Arsenal esque.

What we should have done was to show ambition and willingness to compete for premier league and spent money on a forward and a CM in addition to improving our defense which we thankfully did.

City already had Fernandinho but then they went out to buy Rodri. Similarly they already had Walker but, since they are using him as a Cb, they didn't depend on Danilo and instead bought Cancelo. Spurs already had Eriksen but went out to buy Lo Celso and Dombele, thats ambition and willingness to compete for honours.

We could have signed Bruno or Dombele or Cabellos on loan if we had restrained budget. But no we didnt, and now we are now left with hoping Pogba does not get injured or Mctominay steps up and the likes of Fred and Matic remember they are suppose to be premier league footballers and not sunday league players.

Then moving on towards forward. We knew whole summer that we are going to lose Lukaku, then why wait till Dybala literally is offered to you. Why not move for Jovic or Haller or hundreds of other forwards early in the summer.

Now we are relying on young attackers, one is not ready for epl right now (James), second is least bothered and his work rate is questionable (Martial). Third is somebody who keeps running into blind alleys and his decision making is erratic (Rashford) and still very raw. Lastly we are also depending on Mata, who stopped being important 4 years ago and his last good performance was against Liverpool away in LVG 1st season. While Lingard's best attribute is running and pressing and ruining every attacks.

We are a shambles of a club which has no ambition, we are like Arsenal now, ironically they have actually shown more ambition and has had a better window than us and possibly a better team aswell.
 

RedCoffee

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Our players are going to be knackered by xmas. We got tired last season and look how we finished. Imagine what it will be like with a smaller squad and more games.
We have 10 central defenders who can play anywhere on the pitch. Of course we'll be fine!
 

romufc

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Actually what people are forgetting here is we are Manutd. We should not be content and targetting top 4. The sad part is we will be starting this season with the sole purpose of hoping to achieve top 4, which is Arsenal esque.
We are a shambles of a club which has no ambition, we are like Arsenal now, ironically they have actually shown more ambition and has had a better window than us and possibly a better team aswell.
I have been absolutely crucified because I have called fans out for being content for saying we should minimum finish top 4. Something along the lines of I am hoping for miracle etc.

If the fans are going to accept outside top 4 finish, then Ed Woodward will obviously target that.

Our fans are a joke for accepting this. How we can go into a season thinking top 6 finish is acceptable is beyond me. People talk about you cannot rebuild in one window. Not to challenge for the title, but challenge top 3 why not?
 

Ikon

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if he actually can play the holding midfield position at an adequate level, and if Fred can play better more consistently I think we can hold up until January. Getting in a midfielder during that window could really be key to having a moderately successful season..
A lot of 'if' and hopes in there mate...
What makes you think that there will be an amazing MF available in January that wasn't available this Summer?
and what makes you think that his valuation wont have increased by 20% because its the January window?
 

sokol11

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Actually what people are forgetting here is we are Manutd. We should not be content and targetting top 4. The sad part is we will be starting this season with the sole purpose of hoping to achieve top 4, which is Arsenal esque.

What we should have done was to show ambition and willingness to compete for premier league and spent money on a forward and a CM in addition to improving our defense which we thankfully did.

City already had Fernandinho but then they went out to buy Rodri. Similarly they already had Walker but, since they are using him as a Cb, they didn't depend on Danilo and instead bought Cancelo. Spurs already had Eriksen but went out to buy Lo Celso and Dombele, thats ambition and willingness to compete for honours.

We could have signed Bruno or Dombele or Cabellos on loan if we had restrained budget. But no we didnt, and now we are now left with hoping Pogba does not get injured or Mctominay steps up and the likes of Fred and Matic remember they are suppose to be premier league footballers and not sunday league players.

Then moving on towards forward. We knew whole summer that we are going to lose Lukaku, then why wait till Dybala literally is offered to you. Why not move for Jovic or Haller or hundreds of other forwards early in the summer.

Now we are relying on young attackers, one is not ready for epl right now (James), second is least bothered and his work rate is questionable (Martial). Third is somebody who keeps running into blind alleys and his decision making is erratic (Rashford) and still very raw. Lastly we are also depending on Mata, who stopped being important 4 years ago and his last good performance was against Liverpool away in LVG 1st season. While Lingard's best attribute is running and pressing and ruining every attacks.

We are a shambles of a club which has no ambition, we are like Arsenal now, ironically they have actually shown more ambition and has had a better window than us and possibly a better team aswell.
What if Ole and the rest of trainers said that they are content with what they have and what they saw during preseason and if none of top targets by their pick is unavailable (Longstaff, Sancho) and they aren't convinced by other options (Bruno, Dybala) they go in the season with what they have?
 

SapperBRed75

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I expect us to compete for top 4. We need some luck given squad depth (quality/experience beyond first eleven) but I believe we will compete. Transfers we got over the line definitely improve us, although I concede we are potentially exposed both in the midfield and having lost a 20+ goals per season CF. Should a few of our much maligned squad step up, e.g. Fred, Martial, Alexis and we get a decent (probably last) season out of Pogba - we have a chance.
 

JPRouve

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I have been absolutely crucified because I have called fans out for being content for saying we should minimum finish top 4. Something along the lines of I am hoping for miracle etc.

If the fans are going to accept outside top 4 finish, then Ed Woodward will obviously target that.

Our fans are a joke for accepting this. How we can go into a season thinking top 6 finish is acceptable is beyond me. People talk about you cannot rebuild in one window. Not to challenge for the title, but challenge top 3 why not?
Woodward and the club do not set targets based on fans, truth be told they don't give a damn about our expectations when they evaluate the team's current abilities and it's the case in all clubs. And expectations aren't goals, they are an estimation of an event feasibility. In football it's fairly simple the goal is to win every game but it rarely happens.

In the end fighting for top 4 is the realistic expectation because depending on context we are between the third and sixth best team in the league. We may not be happy about that fact but it won't make it disappear and won't prevent us from trying to do better.
 

Zeno

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All of our players are at least quite good.
And all but one of our players want to play for United rather than any other team.
There will be ups and downs this season but that’s ok. I enjoyed watching United in the 80s...

A few more wobbly seasons are to be expected (and perversely enjoyed!). After a 33 year party you can expect a serious hangover.
 

Ranchero

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Does anyone know who edits our headlines? I thought I had a superfluous 'ft 1000% more tears and drama', although god knows how. I deleted it. And it is back again. It is definitely not me. Might it be that threads were merged? Haven't had any notifications. Weird.
 

Verbalkint

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Biggest loss for me is herrera.
Just wish we managed to replace him.

I'm happy with the rest of the window
Good post . I think we'll miss his big game presence and relentless pressing. Completely dominated the likes of Hazard, Salah etc and one of his finest moments on a United shirt - spitting on that City crest.
 

Champagne Football

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People need to remember Ajax. Came within a whisker of making a CL final with a bunch of unfancied kids.

If Greenwood, James and Fred perform this season then we can surpass expectations.

We can always try yo land Longstaff in January if our midfield is still not functioning by then. But if Fred performs then he can be worth £80 million in a year so worth giving him a chance.
 

Hughie77

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Some negativity here! The 2 positions everyone was complaining about most last season , we have improved on , CB, and RB.
Ok a central midfielder would have been nice.

Let's just see who our best 11 is, I would have liked another striker, but looks like Greenwood will be stepping up, alot for a boy of his age.
4th is not impossible , have some faith, the knives out already not a ball kicked in anger yet.
 

JJ12

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i presume you are joking...if not see your GP as as soon as possible
Of course it's fecking possible.

We have a much better starting 11 than last season just from defensive stability alone.

The negativity around here pathetic.
 

Ranchero

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Some negativity here! The 2 positions everyone was complaining about most last season , we have improved on , CB, and RB.
Ok a central midfielder would have been nice.

Let's just see who our best 11 is, I would have liked another striker, but looks like Greenwood will be stepping up, alot for a boy of his age.
4th is not impossible , have some faith, the knives out already not a ball kicked in anger yet.
It is fair comment... this botched up transfer situation has been going on for years. And saying 'oooh a central midfielder would have been nice', well yeah. Because we only have one with quality and that is Pogba. And he might be flippin leaving. It is pretty fundamental if you want to win football matches that you are able to be creative and have quality to keep hold of the ball, protecting our defence.

You look at City and Liverpool and we have not closed the gap on them. Yet we are told we should be challenging for titles. If we have given up in terms of ambition, the club and Ole should just say so.

I think everyone knew if we want to actually challenge, we needed to do something fundamental in this window in areas that make a difference across the pitch, not just defence. Other clubs have managed far more than we have, probably because they have technical directors.
 

Bestietom

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We had plenty of time to bring in a midfielder or 2. Ndombele, Rodri, and others were mentioned as soon as we knew Herrera was going. Any of these should have been followed up straight after season finished.
 

WireMUFC

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“No Chance” is absolutely ridiculous. Of course we have a chance, we have to finish above Chelsea and Arsenal. That is it.
 

Dargonk

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Defence appears to be much stronger, but midfield and attack have both gotten worse to some extent. It is going to be another long season I feel. We are going to be competing for that last top four spot, with no chance of winning the league. Hardly a great scenario when the teams above you have managed to strengthen, while we look to have stagnated instead of trying to bridge the gap.
 

90 + 5min

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Well if you call this incompetently handled transfer window I wonder what is a good transfer window? 10 more players? Few Neymars, Messis and Ronaldos?

I agree that we needed one more central midfielder but i believe that we have done very well in this window. We bought and made sure that we have a great defensive line in front of DeGea. That will mean a lot. Talking about replacing Lukaku? Why? We got new system (built on pace and mobility), we already got players who can do the job.

This is not Football Manager och FIFA2019. If there were no players out there for right value then you dont buy just for sake of buying. We have done that before and it has come back to haunt us.

I hope but dont believe in top two but I dont see it impossible being third this year. Looking really forward to this season.
 

fps

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Like Milan we're a finished club. Woodward will continue to drive us into the ground while the Glazers pat him on the back for getting a new butt plug sponsor.
Wait. Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.

Wait.

...

We're getting a new butt plug sponsor?
 

dutchred

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Anyone saw the under 23's this evening. There is some real talent there
Laird
Garner
Williams
OÇonnor
to name a few.
with Greenwood, Gomes and Chong getting first team experience I think the future looks great.
Like many I wished we had at least bought another midfielder and an experienced attacker to help the youngsters, but lets be positive
I just hope that Ole gives Gomes and Greenwood chances instead of Mata and Lingard
 

fergie_god

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A lot of 'if' and hopes in there mate...
What makes you think that there will be an amazing MF available in January that wasn't available this Summer?
and what makes you think that his valuation wont have increased by 20% because its the January window?
Nah I'm not saying I believe that this will happen just that this is the scenario that would have to come up for us to be successful.
 

Hughie77

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It is fair comment... this botched up transfer situation has been going on for years. And saying 'oooh a central midfielder would have been nice', well yeah. Because we only have one with quality and that is Pogba. And he might be flippin leaving. It is pretty fundamental if you want to win football matches that you are able to be creative and have quality to keep hold of the ball, protecting our defence.

You look at City and Liverpool and we have not closed the gap on them. Yet we are told we should be challenging for titles. If we have given up in terms of ambition, the club and Ole should just say so.

I think everyone knew if we want to actually challenge, we needed to do something fundamental in this window in areas that make a difference across the pitch, not just defence. Other clubs have managed far more than we have, probably because they have technical directors.
We have American owners, if you haven't got it yet, you never will, they've been using OT as there Bank since they bought it!

If anyone was thinking they would bring in someone after Lukaku went was dreaming. We were lucky to get What we got out if them, pool spent bugger all, spurs little, City not much for there standards. What did you want another £100 million or so spent , they were not going to do it. Nothing to to with Technical Directors. Have a nice season, enjoy the ride
 

UpWithRivers

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I have been ranting about signings all transfer window and been very negative. But you cant say there is no chance. There is always a chance. No once thought Liverpool would be where they are at. No one saw players like Robertson, Henderson, Trent etc step up like they did. No one could even predict how well Salah and Mane etc were going to be. We have talented players but they just haven't stepped up. We cant name one consistent player - by that I mean a player that you would bet your house on producing week in week out and doesn't sustain a lot of injuries. The closest we have is De Gea but he fell away last season. Pogba is close but on off a lot of games. Probably Shaw is the closest based on last season only. If and yes this is a BIG huge if. If players step up we could have a really good season. Can Fred become the player we bought? Can Sanchez be the player we bought? Can Martial and Rashford become the 15/20 goal strikers. Can Lingard be consistent instead of scoring a blinder every once in a while. You can go on with the whole team in cluding the manager and the assistants. In theory if Ole gets the spirit and confidence and the fight back then we will have a good season. We have proven that we can do it - see Oles first games and pre-season.
 

Tincanalley

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Actually what people are forgetting here is we are Manutd. We should not be content and targetting top 4. The sad part is we will be starting this season with the sole purpose of hoping to achieve top 4, which is Arsenal esque.

What we should have done was to show ambition and willingness to compete for premier league and spent money on a forward and a CM in addition to improving our defense which we thankfully did.

City already had Fernandinho but then they went out to buy Rodri. Similarly they already had Walker but, since they are using him as a Cb, they didn't depend on Danilo and instead bought Cancelo. Spurs already had Eriksen but went out to buy Lo Celso and Dombele, thats ambition and willingness to compete for honours.

We could have signed Bruno or Dombele or Cabellos on loan if we had restrained budget. But no we didnt, and now we are now left with hoping Pogba does not get injured or Mctominay steps up and the likes of Fred and Matic remember they are suppose to be premier league footballers and not sunday league players.

Then moving on towards forward. We knew whole summer that we are going to lose Lukaku, then why wait till Dybala literally is offered to you. Why not move for Jovic or Haller or hundreds of other forwards early in the summer.

Now we are relying on young attackers, one is not ready for epl right now (James), second is least bothered and his work rate is questionable (Martial). Third is somebody who keeps running into blind alleys and his decision making is erratic (Rashford) and still very raw. Lastly we are also depending on Mata, who stopped being important 4 years ago and his last good performance was against Liverpool away in LVG 1st season. While Lingard's best attribute is running and pressing and ruining every attacks.

We are a shambles of a club which has no ambition, we are like Arsenal now, ironically they have actually shown more ambition and has had a better window than us and possibly a better team aswell.
Good post mate.
 

Tincanalley

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I have been ranting about signings all transfer window and been very negative. But you cant say there is no chance. There is always a chance. No once thought Liverpool would be where they are at.
So Liverpool's improvement is all about chance? No way. Huge work, structure, thought and planning has gone into it. Can you see Woody doing any of that? Ok.
No one saw players like Robertson, Henderson, Trent etc step up like they did. No one could even predict how well Salah and Mane etc were going to be. We have talented players but they just haven't stepped up. We can't name one consistent player - by that I mean a player that you would bet your house on producing week in week out and doesn't sustain a lot of injuries. The closest we have is De Gea but he fell away last season.
So blame the players. The point about Henderson is good, in a way. He is improved because he understands the system. Because he has good players around him. Rising tide lifts all the boats, etc. The system at LPool is built around the manager. The manager is supported by the CEO, the board.
Pogba is close but on-off a lot of games. Probably Shaw is the closest based on last season only. If and yes this is a BIG huge if. If players step up we could have a really good season. Can Fred become the player we bought? Can Sanchez be the player we bought? Can Martial and Rashford become the 15/20 goal strikers. Can Lingard be consistent instead of scoring a blinder every once in a while? You can go on with the whole team including the manager and the assistants.
Ok, I'll give you IF :)
In theory if Ole gets the spirit and confidence and the fight back then we will have a good season. We have proven that we can do it - see Ole's first games and pre-season.
Everyone has a little ray of hope before a new season begins. But we are six seasons out from SAF's era, and ten years or whatever since Glazernomics infected the club. I think if Ole's attitude of some players won't be here, you know a general bullish vibe at the end of last season ... If that was followed up on ... Say, if there was a replacement for Herrera a midfielder and maybe one more upfront. If there was a signal that here we are, we are going to compete with Spurs and City and Pool. Then you might have more optimism

We should be doing that. We are generating the money. But seeing the Glazers make off with our profits, and not enough investment in the team and the stadium. Seeing Maguire come in after him not being bought for Mourhino. Virtually everyone agrees on the incompetence of Ed. So the people who are unhappy are unhappy for a whole set of very good reasons. But likewise, fair play to the optimists, I hope you enjoy the season. If your theory is borne out I will stand you a virtual pint!
 

Lmarco

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People need to remember Ajax. Came within a whisker of making a CL final with a bunch of unfancied kids.

If Greenwood, James and Fred perform this season then we can surpass expectations.

We can always try yo land Longstaff in January if our midfield is still not functioning by then. But if Fred performs then he can be worth £80 million in a year so worth giving him a chance.
A bit of storytelling there with this Ajax youngsters theme. Last season they added only experienced players with Blind (29), Tadic (30), Labyad (26) and Magallan (25), to a side that had played the Europa League final in 2016-2017. Most youngsters were not making their debut but had been playing for three or even four seasons together, more or less since the EL final season. The exception was Mazraoui who really came on stage last year and played a lot right away.

Last season, the most used players for Ajax were Blind (29), Van de Beek (22), Tadic (30), De Ligt (19), Onana (23), Schöne (33), Neres (22), Ziyech (26), De Jong (22), Mazaroui (21), Tagilafico (26), Huntelaar (35), Dolberg (21), Labyad (26), Veltman (27), Sinkgraven (24), which illustrates that those young players were surrounded by well seniored players. So apart from Mazraoui, it's six field players + one goalkeeper as already used youngsters, who had all been involved in the Europa League Final and had already a decent number of professional games under their belt before last season : Onana (123 pro games + best African goalkeeper 2018), Van de Beek (116 games), De Jong (83 games), Dolberg (77 games, youngest non-Dutch player to score a hattrick for Ajax), De Ligt (62 games), Neres (54 games). Ajax did not throw in young players all at once last season, which surely makes a difference because they had a far more difficult season in 2017-2018 and even 2016-2017 when the Europa League final kind of saved their season.

Man Utd youngsters will be guided by which senior players, esp. if Sanchez leaves as well ? Mostly De Gea / Romero, Young, Mata, Smalling, and maybe Maguire / Lindelöf. Pogba wants to leave and seems more interested by himself than people around him, Matic is the shadow of himself, Fred's not really made it. Those Man Utd youngsters should be brought into the team with caution and benevolence, not like the whole team relies on their offensive performances.
 

Halal Jalal

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A bit of storytelling there with this Ajax youngsters theme. Last season they added only experienced players with Blind (29), Tadic (30), Labyad (26) and Magallan (25), to a side that had played the Europa League final in 2016-2017. Most youngsters were not making their debut but had been playing for three or even four seasons together, more or less since the EL final season. The exception was Mazraoui who really came on stage last year and played a lot right away.

Last season, the most used players for Ajax were Blind (29), Van de Beek (22), Tadic (30), De Ligt (19), Onana (23), Schöne (33), Neres (22), Ziyech (26), De Jong (22), Mazaroui (21), Tagilafico (26), Huntelaar (35), Dolberg (21), Labyad (26), Veltman (27), Sinkgraven (24), which illustrates that those young players were surrounded by well seniored players. So apart from Mazraoui, it's six field players + one goalkeeper as already used youngsters, who had all been involved in the Europa League Final and had already a decent number of professional games under their belt before last season : Onana (123 pro games + best African goalkeeper 2018), Van de Beek (116 games), De Jong (83 games), Dolberg (77 games, youngest non-Dutch player to score a hattrick for Ajax), De Ligt (62 games), Neres (54 games). Ajax did not throw in young players all at once last season, which surely makes a difference because they had a far more difficult season in 2017-2018 and even 2016-2017 when the Europa League final kind of saved their season.

Man Utd youngsters will be guided by which senior players, esp. if Sanchez leaves as well ? Mostly De Gea / Romero, Young, Mata, Smalling, and maybe Maguire / Lindelöf. Pogba wants to leave and seems more interested by himself than people around him, Matic is the shadow of himself, Fred's not really made it. Those Man Utd youngsters should be brought into the team with caution and benevolence, not like the whole team relies on their offensive performances.
Excellent comment. Most of the posters here don't realise that desperately throwing the youngsters into starting XI is more likely to hurt their development than the opposite. We might end up with more Januzajs instead of De Ligts or De Jongs if Ole isn't smart. But it seems that Woodward gave him no other choice considering the embarrassing transfer window.
 

crossy1686

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I'm going to start a business where football fans can be cryogenically frozen until their team is successful again, you chose what you deem as successful and we'll thaw you when it happens.

The rest of us might get a bit of peace then.