Nordic Ghost Yeti | Haaland at City

[ti vu]

Wasn't Ole who was the inept one as he was their manager,think it was down to Jose and Butt who weren't convinced

Mourinho was sacked over a year before. Ole couldn't guarantee Haaland playing time because he was giddy with you know who, and Martial being the future CF. Mourinho would have creamed himself having tall, physical, fast clinical CF like Haaland offered to him.

Butt role doesn't allow him but big of a say at recruitment for the academy, let alone first team business. If Haaland were only offered a transfer to our U23 then it's correct decision to go to Dortmund to become first choice Czf and playing Champions League.

 

[croadyman]

Mourinho was sacked over a year before. Ole couldn't guarantee Haaland playing time because he was giddy with you know who, and Martial being the future CF. Mourinho would have creamed himself having tall, physical, fast clinical CF like Haaland offered to him.

Butt role doesn't allow him but big of a say at recruitment for the academy, let alone first team business. If Haaland were only offered a transfer to our U23 then it's correct decision to go to Dortmund to become first choice Czf and playing Champions League.

I am talking about when he was at Molde which was even before Salzburg or Dortmund

 

[ti vu]

I am talking about when he was at Molde which was even before Salzburg or Dortmund

Mourinho was sacked before Haaland moved on January to Salzburg. Haaland Sr. did advise his son well to pick his move of clubs for his development. He should be well connected to get his son to join City academy which is also highly rated, but having his son going through the rank. Going to Salzburg to get CL football, and Dortmund to keep up with skyrocketing developing rate was perfect timing. Moving from Salzburg to Dortmund was the only time we could have made ourselves a suitor for him.

It's different having a dad who got experience at top flight. Non football family may not have advised their son career pick as well. In this age, it's not all rosy joining big club's academy at young age, only to never break through. City had their fair share of bleeding talent too. Fringpong, Pedro Porro, Romero Lavia Ibrahim Diaz are latest well known players who joined City but couldn't break through.

 

[giorno]

7th in the EPL. Shearer had 10 when he set his record.

Cole had 0!!!!

 

[Samid]

Mourinho was sacked before Haaland moved on January to Salzburg.

He signed in the summer when Mourinho still was here.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[ti vu]

He signed in the summer when Mourinho still was here.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Norgwegian league ended at the end of calendar year IIRC. He only started at Salzburg next January.

As said in my previous post, he's clearly taking sensible step up. Else, he could have taken trials at top clubs younger and joined their academy.

 

[Samid]

Austrian League starts in new calendar year. He only started at Salzburg next January.

As said in my previous post, he's clearly taking sensible step up. Else, he could have taken trials at top clubs younger and joined their academy.

He signed for Salzburg when Mourinho was our manager. That’s the point the other poster was making.

And no, Austrian league does not start in the new year.

 

[ti vu]

He signed for Salzburg when Mourinho was our manager. That’s the point the other poster was making.

And no, Austrian league does not start in the new year.

Made the edit about me mistaking the point about Norwegian league end by the end of calendar, not Austrian League start.

Was Haaland offered to us then, or he sought to join our academy but being refused? It's like complaining about us not signing Mbappe too when we scout and pick up Martial from Monaco.

He clearly got advised to take sensible smaller step up. Even only moved to Salzburg in the new calendar year after finishing business with Norwegian league.

When Haaland left Salzburg was the only time where we could have possibly made a decision. We couldn't guaranteed him game time while developing Martial, with you know who as potential future CF. We needed a CF but could only get a stop gap option in Ighalo instead.

 

[MassVolto]

If City wins CL - And Haaland contributes to this the last 3 games, I dont think its possible to consider anyone else (assuming its for each calendar year, not season)

Its for the season, still, if they won the treble and he scores at least 4 more goals in the champions league, plus breaking Premier league records, it'd be hard to say anyone else deserved it. Messi likely will get it though

Did you guys use the same criteria for Lewandowski in 2020? He didn't show up...

 

[Gehrman]

Did you guys use the same criteria for Lewandowski in 2020? He didn't show up...

A lot of people did. But there was no ballon d'or for 2020.

 

[Zehner]

He was good in the tournament...but to give him the award for one month of football out of a whole season feels like more of a legacy award than an award for the best footballer for the 22/23 season.

The appropriate award for Messi was player of the tournament, which he did win. Haaland has been the most impressive footballer for this season as a whole.

If City win the treble with Haaland scoring more goals along the way, and doesn't win the Ballon d'Or, it'll be a crime.

Messi is at 39 goal contributions for PSG this season. And he does a lot of great plays that aren't reflected in goals and assists. Scored or assisted every 85 minutes of so. And he doesn't take penalties for PSG.

Balon D'Or =/= Golden Boot

 

[jm99]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

fecking Liverpool fans

If you remove goals scored against the bottom 4, suarez finished with about 16 or something

 

[jm99]

Messi is at 39 goal contributions for PSG this season. And he does a lot of great plays that aren't reflected in goals and assists. Scored or assisted every 85 minutes of so. And he doesn't take penalties for PSG.

Balon D'Or =/= Golden Boot

Without the world cup, do you think Messi would even be in the top 10 for this year's ballon d'or? Based on going out at the round of 16 in the champions league, and some performances in france?

 

[Andrade]

Without the world cup, do you think Messi would even be in the top 10 for this year's ballon d'or? Based on going out at the round of 16 in the champions league, and some performances in france?

Yes, he would be in the top 10

 

[Zehner]

Yes, he would be in the top 10

Just checked, the only player with more contributions in top 5 leagues than Messi is Haaland and the only player with more assists is de Bruyne. Messi is also the only player with 15+/15+. Not enough for top 10 apparently.

 

[jm99]

Just checked, the only player with more contributions in top 5 leagues than Messi is Haaland and the only player with more assists is de Bruyne. Messi is also the only player with 15+/15+. Not enough for top 10 apparently.

Yeah, but it's in France. Unless you're putting up ridiculous numbers like mbappe last time, to go out in the last 16 of the champions league, it's not really enough to have a good season in France. If he was still putting up his peak Barca numbers in France, then yeah an early champions league exit probably wouldn't be fatal, but I dno, in 2021, mbappe came 9th, and I know that was still over a calendar year, but he was putting up 30 goal seasons in ligue 1. This top 5 league thing is a bit of a nonsense, as a league France is closer to Portugal or Holland than it is the top 3 leagues, if you take psg out, that's why yiu need an exceptional club season there to rate, messi's having a good one but not close to exceptional

 

[HisNameIsEarl]

Just checked, the only player with more contributions in top 5 leagues than Messi is Haaland and the only player with more assists is de Bruyne. Messi is also the only player with 15+/15+. Not enough for top 10 apparently.

Funny how you advocate for contextual usage of stats when it suits your agenda, and bluntly ignore it when it doesn't.

 

[Zehner]

Yeah, but it's in France. Unless you're putting up ridiculous numbers like mbappe last time, to go out in the last 16 of the champions league, it's not really enough to have a good season in France. If he was still putting up his peak Barca numbers in France, then yeah an early champions league exit probably wouldn't be fatal, but I dno, in 2021, mbappe came 9th, and I know that was still over a calendar year, but he was putting up 30 goal seasons in ligue 1. This top 5 league thing is a bit of a nonsense, as a league France is closer to Portugal or Holland than it is the top 3 leagues, if you take psg out, that's why yiu need an exceptional club season there to rate, messi's having a good one but not close to exceptional

Yeah, it is in France, so what? Haaland is producing better numbers for City than he produced for Dortmund last season. Plus, aren't you the poster who defended the Saudi league recently?

I'd honestly be ashamed to be caught with such double standards. At least maintain a basic degree of objectivity.

Funny how you advocate for contextual usage of stats when it suits your agenda, and bluntly ignore it when it doesn't.

Care to elaborate?

 

[HisNameIsEarl]

Wasn't it you that downplayed Haalands numbers? That they would need to be weighed and be taken in the context that he plays in a producing team that is outstanding in its league?

Don't get me wrong, Messi will propably get this ballon d'or, and deservedly so. But his club season wasn't successful.

 

[Zehner]

Wasn't it you that downplayed Haalands numbers? That they would need to be weighed and be taken in the context that he plays in a producing team that is outstanding in its league?

Don't get me wrong, Messi will propably get this ballon d'or, and deservedly so. But his club season wasn't successful.

I think that going by stats like these is stupid, yes. But if a poster claims that Haaland should win the Ballon D'Or because of his numbers and then claims Messi shouldn't be among the top 10 despite having the second best numbers, this is stupid.

But yeah, I would love it if we talked less about these stats in discussions like this.

 

[Noot]

It's kind of silly that this kid is gonna get passed up for the Ballon d'Or just because Messi scored like 4 penalties in the WC

Ballon d'Or is pointless in a World Cup year. Everyone just wants the best player from the winning team.

 

[SilentWitness]

Don't care what Messi did in the WC, if Haaland wins the treble with City it would be madness not to pick him for the Ballon d'Or.

 

[jm99]

Yeah, it is in France, so what? Haaland is producing better numbers for City than he produced for Dortmund last season. Plus, aren't you the poster who defended the Saudi league recently?

I'd honestly be ashamed to be caught with such double standards. At least maintain a basic degree of objectivity.




Care to elaborate?

No I'm not, I haven't defended the Saudi league at any point and I've said it's a retirement league. You must be confusing me with someone else

I'm not saying France is an awful league, but goalscoring and assist numbers while playing for psg should not be considered the same as similar numbers put up in England or Spain or Italy.

I actually can't believe anyone would try and argue that. Look over the years when cavani was scoring loads for psg, very rarely would be considered as good a striker as aguero or Suarez or lewandowski etc.

 

[Andrade]

Don't care what Messi did in the WC, if Haaland wins the treble with City it would be madness not to pick him for the Ballon d'Or.

Why? The World Cup is the biggest tournament in football by quite some distance.

 

[jm99]

Why? The World Cup is the biggest tournament in football by quite some distance.

Well I don't know why your quoted me when I was talking about whether Messi would make the top 10 without the world cup. But it's because its for the player over a season, 7 games, two of which he could only lead argentina to a draw and had to win on penalties, one where they lost against Saudi Arabia, and the rest against Mexico, Poland and Australia don't really scream best player of the season for me. If loris actually bothers to put any effort into the very saveable penalties in the final, is Messi suddenly not the best player of the season because three of his teammates missed penalties that he had no influence over?

It's such a small sample size against largely very weak opposition. Which would still be OK in a year with no other real standout performer, say like 2013 when bayern won the treble but it was mostly a team effort, had someone had a very good world cup in a year like that then, maybe, yeah. But if you have another player who's broken goalscoring records from before ww2, and wins a treble, I'd say that player has earned it more than someone who performed well over 7 games

 

[SilentWitness]

Why? The World Cup is the biggest tournament in football by quite some distance.

It's 7 games. Granted very high pressure and intense 7 games but still 7 games.

Messi has done well for PSG in the league but to be out of the cup and CL at the stages they were is very poor.

Don't get me wrong, his World Cup was outstanding and one of the best performances at the tournament we have seen but Haaland is putting in POTY performances in both the PL and CL, the elite club football competitions. Win all three major club comps for his club with those accolades to his name and I'd find it difficult to not say he is more deserving than Messi of it.

 

[Gehrman]

Don't care what Messi did in the WC, if Haaland wins the treble with City it would be madness not to pick him for the Ballon d'Or.

I think so. Im a Messi fan and him winning the wc was the ultimate swansong for a player of his stature. He's had a great season the in the league as well but Haaland is scoring like peak Messi in the epl and has a great record in the ucl too. Its also his first season. Breaking these records with ease has to count for sonething.

 

[Andersonson]

For those who think Haaland didnt join us, because Ole as inept, needs to watch Erlings documentary

 

[Andrade]

It's 7 games. Granted very high pressure and intense 7 games but still 7 games.

Messi has done well for PSG in the league but to be out of the cup and CL at the stages they were is very poor.

Don't get me wrong, his World Cup was outstanding and one of the best performances at the tournament we have seen but Haaland is putting in POTY performances in both the PL and CL, the elite club football competitions. Win all three major club comps for his club with those accolades to his name and I'd find it difficult to not say he is more deserving than Messi of it.

Well first of all he has to do all that, which is far from guaranteed.

Secondly, it is amazing how short people's memories are. The only reason people are claiming the Ballon D'Or for Haaland (he is still behind Messi in the odds BTW) is because he is what is freshest in people's minds (and also because he plays in England and English football is uppermost in the mind for the vast majority of people in this forum).

Let's say that City won the treble and Messi had the season in France he had, potential French player of the season honours, whatever, but failure in the CL. But instead of being in December, the World Cup was in the summer. Argentina win, Messi wins the golden ball, silver boot etc. Messi would then win the Ballon D'Or pretty easily because it would be freshest in people's minds. Instead of people complaining about it just being 7 games. It was one of the best World Cups ever with probably the best final ever, which was watched by 1 5 billion people. In that scenario, it would be City's success that would largely be forgotten about.

Also, whilst I think Haaland would be a worthy winner if City finish the deal, I don't think his all round performances actually merit the kind of 'closed case' noises that people are making. As I and many others have said, for all his goals, a lot of the time he's not even the best player in City's team when you actually watch them play.

 

[Zehner]

No I'm not, I haven't defended the Saudi league at any point and I've said it's a retirement league. You must be confusing me with someone else

I'm not saying France is an awful league, but goalscoring and assist numbers while playing for psg should not be considered the same as similar numbers put up in England or Spain or Italy.

I actually can't believe anyone would try and argue that. Look over the years when cavani was scoring loads for psg, very rarely would be considered as good a striker as aguero or Suarez or lewandowski etc.

Ok, so while PSG is head and shoulders above 100% of its opponents, City is only head and shoulders above 80% of its opponents. You know why Haaland's scoring record went up a notch when he joined City? Because he joined a team that is more dominant in their respective league than Dortmund was in the BL, leading to even more chances presented on a plate for him.

 

[SilentWitness]

Well first of all he has to do all that, which is far from guaranteed.

Secondly, it is amazing how short people's memories are. The only reason people are claiming the Ballon D'Or for Haaland (he is still behind Messi in the odds BTW) is because he is what is freshest in people's minds (and also because he plays in England and English football is uppermost in the mind for the vast majority of people in this forum).

Let's say that City won the treble and Messi had the season in France he had, potential French player of the season honours, whatever, but failure in the CL. But instead of being in December, the World Cup was in the summer. Argentina win, Messi wins the golden ball, silver boot etc. Messi would then win the Ballon D'Or pretty easily because it would be freshest in people's minds. Instead of people complaining about it just being 7 games. It was one of the best World Cups ever with probably the best final ever, which was watched by 1 5 billion people. In that scenario, it would be City's success that would largely be forgotten about.

Also, whilst I think Haaland would be a worthy winner if City finish the deal, I don't think his all round performances actually merit the kind of 'closed case' noises that people are making. As I and many others have said, for all his goals, a lot of the time he's not even the best player in City's team when you actually watch them play.

Of course it's based on hypotheticals. I alluded to that in the first post I made. If Haaland just wins the PL or does a domestic double it isn't the same, but win a PL + CL double or a treble and it puts him in serious contention or a guarantee for me.

At the time of the WC win, PSG were still in the CL and cup and despite Haaland starting the season very well, it didn't look like City were in a place of contention for anything so yes, memory plays a part but football is constantly changing through the season and that's why awards shouldn't be given midway through it.

Sure, sometimes Haaland isn't the best player for City and sometimes he is. What he is though more often than not is the player with the most impact for City and he's a huge reason they are in contention for the treble.

It's tiring being accused of being England-centric too. Messi was above anyone after the WC win in terms of BD contention but since then his club side are doing very meh and are stuttering towards a league title win. They're not winning it with ease and they went out in the last 16 of their domestic competition and once again did shite in the CL.

 

[Andrade]

Of course it's based on hypotheticals. I alluded to that in the first post I made. If Haaland just wins the PL or does a domestic double it isn't the same, but win a PL + CL double or a treble and it puts him in serious contention or a guarantee for me.

At the time of the WC win, PSG were still in the CL and cup and despite Haaland starting the season very well, it didn't look like City were in a place of contention for anything so yes, memory plays a part but football is constantly changing through the season and that's why awards shouldn't be given midway through it.

Sure, sometimes Haaland isn't the best player for City and sometimes he is. What he is though more often than not is the player with the most impact for City and he's a huge reason they are in contention for the treble.

It's tiring being accused of being England-centric too. Messi was above anyone after the WC win in terms of BD contention but since then his club side are doing very meh and are stuttering towards a league title win. They're not winning it with ease and they went out in the last 16 of their domestic competition and once again did shite in the CL.

Fair re PSG but Messi himself has had a 20 goal, 19 assist season thus far. That's pretty good. Not to mention that (as I keep saying) he has 60 G/A this season for club and country which is more than anyone else. Including Haaland, though I accept it is much tougher to get numbers in the PL.

Haaland is a big reason they are in contention for the treble but they have been in contention for trebles before without him. I don't think Argentina would have been in contention for the World Cup without Messi.

 

[giorno]

Messi did his disappearing act in CL again. Haaland is the top scorer, tore up the same team that erased a Messi, and has his team on the cusp of a treble while breaking records against the strongest domestic competition in the world. Their club seasons aren't even remotely comparable. The only thing that matters, the only reason why Messi will win, why he's even in contention for that matter, is the World Cup. Nobody is impressed with his season at club level

 

[Andrade]

Messi did his disappearing act in CL again. Haaland is the top scorer, tore up the same team that erased a Messi, and has his team on the cusp of a treble while breaking records against the strongest domestic competition in the world. Their club seasons aren't even remotely comparable. The only thing that matters, the only reason why Messi will win, why he's even in contention for that matter, is the World Cup. Nobody is impressed with his season at club level

Real Madrid fans' opinions on Messi should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[mshnsh]

Real Madrid fans' opinions on Messi should be taken with a grain of salt.

Totally. Haters, the lot.

 

[jm99]

Ok, so while PSG is head and shoulders above 100% of its opponents, City is only head and shoulders above 80% of its opponents. You know why Haaland's scoring record went up a notch when he joined City? Because he joined a team that is more dominant in their respective league than Dortmund was in the BL, leading to even more chances presented on a plate for him.

I just don't think anyone who wasn't called lionel messi or kylian mbappe would have be a top 10 nominee for the ballon d'or because of a 15 goal and 15 assist season in France.

Ibrahimovic was 13th with a 38 goal season in 2016. Trying to pretend that messi's club season would have him anywhere near the ballon d'or is ridiculous, if he gets it, it's for those 7 games, otherwise he would be nowhere near. Fair enough he might get a few extra few votes just because of his name but that's it. Great domestic seasons in France or Holland or Portugal have never really been ballon d'or worthy

 

[mshnsh]

I just don't think anyone who wasn't called lionel messi or kylian mbappe would have be a top 10 nominee for the ballon d'or because of a 15 goal and 15 assist season in France.

Ibrahimovic was 13th with a 38 goal season in 2016. Trying to pretend that messi's club season would have him anywhere near the ballon d'or is ridiculous, if he gets it, it's for those 7 games, otherwise he would be nowhere near. Fair enough he might get a few extra few votes just because of his name but that's it. Great domestic seasons in France or Holland or Portugal have never really been ballon d'or worthy

Most Ronaldo fans disappeared from football forums after the world cup, you actually did the opposite. You are Ronaldo's batman.

 

[giorno]

Real Madrid fans' opinions on Messi should be taken with a grain of salt.

Doesn't change the fact i'm right. Journalists aren't going to give 2 shits what he's doing in ligue1 - his club season comes down to his usual disappearing act in CL as far as BO consideration is concerned. Only this season that doesn't matter either, because of the world cup

 

[jm99]

Most Ronaldo fans disappeared from football forums after the world cup, you actually did the opposite. You are Ronaldo's batman.

Yeah its strange alright to support a guy who won 3 premier league titles and a champions league with us, much more normal to fanboy over a player who was on the winning side in 2 champions league finals against us

 

[ManchesterMats]

I Don’t think that I have ever seen a footballer his size quite like Haaland. He’s fast, strong, explosive, has great movement without the ball and absolutely fantastic finishing. Also he has really good passing skills.

If he keeps up those numbers he might go to the history as the greatest to ever play the game.

When Ibrahimovic was at Haalands age he was performing avarage numbers in the Eredivisie for Ajax.