Northern Ireland Thread

Marching

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My thoughts are with you and your family cacs.
 

Gaz.

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:(

I'm Sorry cacs

I alot of my friends and relatives knew Ronan, only ever had praise for your bro.

My mum knows your mum through work

We're all here for ya dude, give me a PM if you need to talk
 

Eyepopper

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Sincere condolences cacs, I can't imagine what you and your family are going through.

I hope they catch those responsible quickly.
 

Diablodave

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Once again Cacs, the whole country is behind you and your family at this time! I wish you all the best in coming through such a terrible time.
 

MUFCgal

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Thoughts are with you cacs.

For you NI guys and gals. What's the vibe like over there in general?
Just disgusted really. People in general just want to live their lives in peace, and people are just disgusted at this.

He was a young man just starting his career, and to be taken away by scum like this. We don't want this here no more.
 

Gaz.

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Omagh's in shock, It's been a pretty hard week for my wee town

The bomb bringing back horrible memories
A house was raided and guns and ammunition were found
and a 26 year old man was killed by an 18 year old drunk driver

Not much happens in Omagh, but when it does, its never good


Omagh's quite a Nationalist town, but, EVERYONE is against this crap, Protestants and Catholics are United against it.
 

utdalltheway

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hopefully both sides will rail against those responsible for this.

it's tragedies like this that could become defining moments for the good.
 

Frosty

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I offer my condolences cacs. Words don't do justice sometimes.
 

Cutch

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Oh my god, so sorry for your loss cacs. Sincerest condolences to you and your family. I cant imagine what you's must be going through. Your brother was a hero and you can be so very proud. His death will not be in vain, and will serve to bring the whole community closer together i assure you.

I'm from a wee town 20 mile down the road from Omagh. A mate of mine was in training with your brother and started in the psni at the same time. He is also a young 25 y o Catholic so i hope he doesnt have to reconsider his options as a result, as the country needs young heroes like he and your brother to look after the community. I also know a few others that have come into contact with Ronan and say that he was a great guy.

Look after yourself man.
 

Livvie

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I was on my way home for mothers day and sisters 18th. Found out half way home in abu dhabi when i was checking the utd result and had loads of facebook msgs. Couldnt believe my eyes. Its just not fair lads. The support of everyone is fantastic.
So many people have been touched by this Cacs, that hopefully it can have a positive effect - like the Twitter trending, #notinmyname

In time, if good does come from it, it might be some small consolation, but in the meantime, all your family can do is be there for each other, and draw strength from each other.

And you're right. It's not fair. :( And words just aren't enough.

RIP Ronan. You were a true Irishman.
 

Kraftwerker

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We can't stop here. This is bat country.
I didn't want to derail this, but now there's a separate thread for cacs, I just want to post my views on this. Not very coherent, but CE posters will be used to that.

I am a nationalist, I'd like to see a united Ireland, and I feel the territorial land grab and cynical positioning of the border are fundamentally wrong.

However, I am also a pragmatist. Ireland cannot afford us, and the UK are heavily subsidising us. If Cameron came out tomorrow and said, "ok, oglaigh na heireann, you win, N. Ire is no longer a member of the UK", we would be up the shitter. Might help balance his books though.

Catholics have, in recent history, had an awful time of it. We were second class citizens. That was wrong, and they rightly fought back. But the time for the armalite is long gone, we are equals now, and it's time for the ballot box.

On the topic of equals, one of the great shames were that our streets were once partolled by the British Army and the RUC. Both overwhelmingly unionist. We suffered as a result. It can only be good that we are now seeing more and more catholics enter the profession. I defy anyone to rationally explain the drawbacks of a representative police force.

And I wonder it the thinking is behind the murder of Ronan, would they prefer a return to the good old days of a protestant only police force? What good will that do? People like Ronan are helping to get us catholics a better deal, simple as.
This implies it used to be ok for cowards to car-bomb people.

You really think bombing people was the best way to get Catholics rights?

Rather than, you know, peaceful protest which had the backing of many educated Protestants, who were then alienated by Republican hijacking of the movement.

If anything, violent republicanism jeopardized the civil rights movement, rather than assisting it.
 

golden_blunder

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And I wonder it the thinking is behind the murder of Ronan, would they prefer a return to the good old days of a protestant only police force? What good will that do? People like Ronan are helping to get us catholics a better deal, simple as.
"Police Service NI"

the dissidents want nothing short of "brits out", as far as they are concerned the PSNI is a British Police service, so that makes them 'legitimate' targets in their eyes, regardless of whether you're a Catholic officer or a Protestant officer.
 

golden_blunder

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I'd like to know what they honestly think the alternative is. A united ireland is a very long term goal, in the short term we need to ensure we continue to live as equals. Hounding catholics out of the psni will not help that
it will in their eyes. Then they can cast it as a police force for a protestant people and then the cycle starts again

as it stands most 'normal' people are happy with the service so if they can reverse that trend again, then it'll kick off again in deprived areas
 

sammymc

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PJ itll be the same as the old saying about the RUC which did have catholics in it, thats 90% protestant..100% unionist...the dissidents will say 50% Catholic 100% unionist, as GB says the implication is that once you start policing the state you legitimise it, same with Sinn Fein in Stormont...you spend 30 years murdering people to gain a United Ireland but end up governing Northern Ireland with the DUP and you think everyone is going to go along with that just because they say so....you cant unleash the violence against the state then when you say so expect people to stop when the one basic aim has not been achieved.
 

Livvie

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When the troubles erupted again in the 60s/70s, the Catholics were very much second-class citizens, so the unrest was justified, even if the violence wasn't.

I think things are different now? What percentage of Catholics want a united Ireland?
 

Livvie

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thats not a simple question Livvie
With no simple answer, I'm sure.

But would you say that generally feelings have changed, if not about a united Ireland, about the means to achieve it?
 

sammymc

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This implies it used to be ok for cowards to car-bomb people.

You really think bombing people was the best way to get Catholics rights?

Rather than, you know, peaceful protest which had the backing of many educated Protestants, who were then alienated by Republican hijacking of the movement.

If anything, violent republicanism jeopardized the civil rights movement, rather than assisting it.

sorry but thats utter nonsense. Your implication is that the civil rights movement was going along swimmingly until the bad IRA came along and ruined it is a common unionist lie, I particularily like the "backing of many educated protestants" bit as it washes over the many many more protestant/unionists who fought the very idea from day one especially those who stood beside a certain man and attacked the protests as a popish republican plot and burnt swathes of people out of their homes...this was at a time when the IRA were a spent force and wouldve numbered about 30 across the north. The reaction to civil rights helped bolster the IRA as once they were seen as a joke they then became viewed as the only group likely to defend these communities who were being attacked.

It was never ok to car bomb people and the atrocities carried out in the name of both communities will forever shame this country. But the troubles are a direct reaction to what happened at the times of the civil rights and those who fought it are as much to blame for the 30 years as anyone else.
 

golden_blunder

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With no simple answer, I'm sure.

But would you say that generally feelings have changed, if not about a united Ireland, about the means to achieve it?
bare in mind that i'm a protestant, and just giving my views based on what Catholic friends, North and South have told me

There is a romantic notion to have a United Ireland. Ideally thats what they would like
Realistically, people just want equality across every spectrum. There has been a lot of hard work in the North to address these areas.
What people are dead against is the financial implications to them if a United Ireland suddenly happened. Ireland cant afford to have a United Ireland for the forseeable future. I think even the likes of SF have been not so vocal about it recently because they recognise it will have to go on the long finger.
No-one, absolutely no-one wants violence apart from a small minority of thugs, many of whom are using it as an excuse to control communities for drug peddling and crime.
 

Red Hand Devil

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My brother guys. Devastated :(
Jesus Christ man, my heart goes out to you & your family. I'm so sorry for your loss. Your Brother wanted to continue the change we've been having & he will not have died in vain. He'll be a shining light in what was a dark room!

I watched your Mum, yourself, your Brother & Sister on tv on Sunday & it was just like watching Mickey Harte & his sons all over again. I guess i wasnt the only one who was overcome with emotion :(

God bless ya & your family man...
 

Rooney24

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This implies it used to be ok for cowards to car-bomb people.

You really think bombing people was the best way to get Catholics rights?

Rather than, you know, peaceful protest which had the backing of many educated Protestants, who were then alienated by Republican hijacking of the movement.

If anything, violent republicanism jeopardized the civil rights movement, rather than assisting it.
Clearly that is not the implication of PJ's comment at all.

The fact of the matter is that during the IRA's campaign there was a sizeable percentage of the population who supported their actions. This doesnt mean that every man on the street was in the IRA or was out car bombing or shooting people themselves, but to a varying degree probably supported some (not all) of what they were doing and most definitely supported the objective behind it of a United Ireland. I think its fair to say that a large percentage of the population wasnt ready or prepared to take up the gun themselves but they supported those that did. Therefore in that sense for them the armalite was the only way forward. What other choice was there? They were denied a fair crack of the whip in elections, jobs, houses, civil rights and in some cases burnt out of their own properties.

Thankfully, despite recent events, those days seem to be largely behind us. Im pretty sure this current crop are very small in number, but large enough to wreak a bit of havoc and misery unfortunately.

But a huge difference between them and the IRA is that I dont believe this crowd have any real support, and Im confident they can be stamped out - peiople here really just dont want this any more.

The IRA did have support, like it or not, or they wouldnt have existed for so long.
 

sammymc

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We now have a say in how we are governed. With a real possibility of a nationalist first minister (assuming sinn fein don't chuck their toys out of the pram). It's not a united Ireland, but it's progress (along with the fact that we have equality and are no longer in a civil war). I just don't get why these people can't accept that the NI assembly is the first step in a long, political, road to a united ireland

Cause as the DUP, UUP, PUP etc etc all said its actually strengthening the Union and youve got sinn fein who once wouldnt enter Oireachtas now in there and stormont. Yep theyve gained power, unfortunately it now seems thats what the armed struggle was for was...just to get SF into stormont and governing NI...cause if the armed struggle was for equality we basically had that politically by about 1974 and the civil war which should have ended after about 5 years was just carried on for a further 25 fecking blood soaked years at the behest of those who now govern.

After about 74-75 the IRA's campiagn only hurt the nationalist community and further divided the two communities.
 

Neutral

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Looks like they've got someone who might shed some light on this matter:

Police investigating the murder of Constable Ronan Kerr have arrested a man in Scotland.

Mr Kerr, 25, was killed by a bomb under his car in Omagh on Saturday.

Police have also said there has been a very significant arms find in the Coalisland area of east Tyrone on Tuesday night.

The weapons included four rifles, detonators, component parts for rocket launchers and explosives including what may be the plastic explosive Semtex.

Police said the 26-year-old man who was arrested in Scotland was being held over the arms find.

The weapons were found inside stolen cars found in a garage unit at Mountjoy Road in Coalisand.

Police said they were being "fast-tracked for forensic examination" and formed one line of inquiry in the Ronan Kerr murder investigation.

The arrested man is being returned to Northern Ireland for questioning

BBC News - Ronan Kerr murder: man arrested in Scotland
 

Red Hand Devil

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Read in the paper today that old provos are helping police identify the dissidents. Fair fecks to them if so.
Damn right & the more they shop to the cops the better. Shower of sick twisted bastards regarding themselves as "Freedom Fighters", they havent the balls to look at their victims in the eyes, bunch of cowards :mad:

May they all rot in hell after they are captured, but publicly shame them first in front of all the cameras & media. Make their lives a living hell of disgrace & misery for all the world to see, feck their human-rights - they lost that good grace when they decided on causing pain & suffering to honest innocent people!

feck them & feck them good :mad:
 

Spoony

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feck me.... it's like I've been done by a Jeremy Clarkeson and Hammond style wind up.

'but it was a jooookkkeee!!!'
 

Lance Uppercut

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Read in the paper today that old provos are helping police identify the dissidents. Fair fecks to them if so.
I saw some graffiti in Newry yesterday which would suggest that that is the case, and that some "people" aren't overly happy about it.
 

Lance Uppercut

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It was spray painted on with a stencil. And yes, I am serious. :lol:
 

Livvie

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Twitter is trending #notinmyname and this was displayed during a march at the weekend I believe.

Ironic if the people are Ireland are united against the people who want them united.
 

Livvie

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Not so livvie, a large number of us want Ireland united, we are just disgusted by this capaign of violence in a political age
Not with you PJ.

I never suggested that no-one wanted Ireland united. Just that it was ironic that they might currently be united - against the people who have been fighting for it.
 

Livvie

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Fair dos, I just don't want it to come across to a casual observer that those of us in the nationalist community who are disgusted, are any less keen on a united ireland
I'm sure you're not.

I do wonder though, does the Republic as a whole really want the North and all the problems it would bring?
 

Livvie

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feck no. When they had it good, they didn't want the burden, and now they couldn't possibly afford us. That's the futility of a dissident camplaign. We have to play the long game, and do this politically.
When the country was first split - or at any time since - have the Nationalists been offered Republic passports?
 

Red Hand Devil

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Edit, a 1956 act gave the right of Irish citizenship to anyone born on the Island
As far as i know PJ, if you had a Mother, Father, Grandfather or Grandmother that held an Irish Passport the red tape was less back in the day!

Gettin an Irish passport is available to anyone on the Island of Ireland since the Good Friday Agreement. Many Nationalists still hold a British Passport because they feel that its too much hassle gettin an Irish one, but Passport Express sorts that out within 10-12 working days!

I recently got mine renewed in August, and the lad behind the counter told me that a couple of Nordie's (Northern Irish) in the past few days applied for an Irish Passport, but insisted "Londonderry" instead of "Derry" as the place of birth be shown on the passport. They also didnt want the Irish translation on that section either :rolleyes:

Southern Ireland doesnt recognise the term Londonderry, same as Nationalists in the North. The fella said that they were brute ignorant about the whole thing & came across as just gettin the passport as a joke, because they could. They were respectable looking blokes aswell - suited & booted!