Not sacking managers early enough

[R.N7]

This has perhaps been the biggest problem for United post Ferguson, all the managerial appointments were sound enough at the time but they were give far too much time to waste away.

Moyes
Appointment: Might look silly now but his stock was high after his work with Everton and he kinda felt like a natural replacement for SAF, even given the seal of approval by the man himself.
Sacking: Swift enough, maybe it was easier for Woody seeing as it really wasn't his guy?

LVG
Appointment: Seen as a bit of a shrewd move at the time, done some good work with the Netherlands national team, experience of managing top teams. No brainer.
Sacking: Should have been sacked after that terrible run in the middle of his last season, won the FA cup but it was all handled quite undignified.

Mourinho
Appointment: Damaged goods but it was pretty much written in the stars that he would manage United at some point. Made total sense.
Sacking: Should have been gone during that summer when he wasn't backed.

Solkjaer
Appointment: It was silly to give him the contract before the end of the season but I think it was unavoidable really after that start, would have been appointed anyhow given his popularity.
Sacking: Should have been sacked after that 0-4 game vs Everton in 2019, after that one it was pretty much clear, to me at least, that he didn't have the tactical nous to manage above Norwegian/League One level. Two years later and this pestilence of sentimentality is still on going, wasting everyone's time, not even binned after one of the worst result in the history of the football club. A top class coach in his prime was available yet the club just can't bring themselves to bin this naked emperor.

 

[Skills]

Agreed. Hiring managers isn't an exact science - the likes of Bayern, Chelsea and Madrid make plenty of wrong appointments. But they're smart enough to move on from them quickly, and then give it another go.

 

[padzilla]

What's the saying? It's only a mistake if you don't learn from it.

 

[Lay]

We took too long to sack Moyes too. Not sure why the club waited until it was mathematically impossible to qualify for the CL. When it could’ve been done way before so a new manager could have a chance to quality for it.

LVG had a run of bad games where the football was stale and we lost often. Kept him on.

Mourinho should have gone after the Sevilla debacle

 

[JPRouve]

From the Summer budget Mourinho got Fred, Alexis Sanchez and Dalot, he was backed. He should have been sacked because he was a c..t.

 

[Lentwood]

Sounds to me like another made-up narrative to use as a stick to beat the club with.

Moyes - lasted less than a season. Had the toughest job in football, and we gave him about 7/8 months.
LvG - was sacked the day after winning the FA Cup, basically because Jose was available
Jose - had just finished 2nd in the table but was sacked before Christmas the following season
Ole - has never had a bad season/finished in a bad league position as United manager. All the rest is conjecture. The facts are we have finished 3rd and 2nd under Ole. At what point were we supposed to sack him?

Again, there are plenty of problems at the club, but this forum has a tendency to exaggerate or just make something up entirely and before you know it, it's getting repeated back everywhere. You could debate whether Moyes could have gone a month or two earlier, same with Jose...but we're talking weeks/months here, not seasons.

I do think we have probably reached the ceiling of Ole's abilities, but what would we have gained by sacking him already? Clearly hasn't lost the dressing room, the situation isn't toxic, we're in the midst of a really tough run of games...hopefully the Board are now seriously sounding out potential options, rather than just panicking and reacting to 3/4 poor results

 

[Dookingham United]

This has perhaps been the biggest problem for United post Ferguson, all the managerial appointments were sound enough at the time but they were give far too much time to waste away.

Moyes
Appointment: Might look silly now but his stock was high after his work with Everton and he kinda felt like a natural replacement for SAF, even given the seal of approval by the man himself.
Sacking: Swift enough, maybe it was easier for Woody seeing as it really wasn't his guy?

LVG
Appointment: Seen as a bit of a shrewd move at the time, done some good work with the Netherlands national team, experience of managing top teams. No brainer.
Sacking: Should have been sacked after that terrible run in the middle of his last season, won the FA cup but it was all handled quite undignified.

Mourinho
Appointment: Damaged goods but it was pretty much written in the stars that he would manage United at some point. Made total sense.
Sacking: Should have been gone during that summer when he wasn't backed.

Solkjaer
Appointment: It was silly to give him the contract before the end of the season but I think it was unavoidable really after that start, would have been appointed anyhow given his popularity.
Sacking: Should have been sacked after that 0-4 game vs Everton in 2019, after that one it was pretty much clear, to me at least, that he didn't have the tactical nous to manage above Norwegian/League One level. Two years later and this pestilence of sentimentality is still on going, wasting everyone's time, not even binned after one of the worst result in the history of the football club. A top class coach in his prime was available yet the club just can't bring themselves to bin this naked emperor.

You hit the nail on the head when you said "yet the club just can't bring themselves to".
The problem that we have is the owners and those that they have put in place to run the football side of our club.
Yes, they are good at making deals and somehow getting a shower company to sponsor us, but they do not understand, or even it seems follow, football!
Another club, not even a top level club would years ago have said to Ole, "look, fans love you, but you are just not good enough. We are bringing in a hugely experienced coaching staff to help you."
And when it became apparent that he just wasn't competent, then he would be let go and the best manager available brought in because the club would have a plan in place for if they lost the manager.

The people who run our club have no idea what they are doing! If we expect any change then we need to remove everyone off the field. Until that happens, anyone that expects change is deluding themselves.

 

[Dookingham United]

Sounds to me like another made-up narrative to use as a stick to beat the club with.

Moyes - lasted less than a season. Had the toughest job in football, and we gave him about 7/8 months.
LvG - was sacked the day after winning the FA Cup, basically because Jose was available
Jose - had just finished 2nd in the table but was sacked before Christmas the following season
Ole - has never had a bad season/finished in a bad league position as United manager. All the rest is conjecture. The facts are we have finished 3rd and 2nd under Ole. At what point were we supposed to sack him?

Again, there are plenty of problems at the club, but this forum has a tendency to exaggerate or just make something up entirely and before you know it, it's getting repeated back everywhere. You could debate whether Moyes could have gone a month or two earlier, same with Jose...but we're talking weeks/months here, not seasons.

I do think we have probably reached the ceiling of Ole's abilities, but what would we have gained by sacking him already? Clearly hasn't lost the dressing room, the situation isn't toxic, we're in the midst of a really tough run of games...hopefully the Board are now seriously sounding out potential options, rather than just panicking and reacting to 3/4 poor results

Chelsea sacked their legend mid season when he was showing his ceiling, then won the Champions League in that season. Now it is widely acknowledged that Tuchel is one of the best managers in the world.
We could possibly have achieved what Chelsea have if we were run to win everything available, not just come 4th in the league.

No one wants the board to knee jerk. We want them to have a plan and not be controlled by emotion. If they were competent then Ole would never have got the job full time and a best in class management team would have.

 

[AneRu]

Agreed. Hiring managers isn't an exact science - the likes of Bayern, Chelsea and Madrid make plenty of wrong appointments. But they're smart enough to move on from them quickly, and then give it another go.

This. I think the board is traumatized by how some seemingly straight forward appointments didn't work out and seem to think that admitting a mistake early on and rectifying it is beneath them.

We are also hung over on finding the next Fergie when we should admit that Fergie was a one off and the factors that are needed to recreate it go beyond patience and massive investment - the manager's qualities and the state of competition also play a major role because you can't dwell on a five year rebuild with City and Liverpool being rampant as they are right now, you risk being left behind for a very long time.

 

[golden_blunder]

This has perhaps been the biggest problem for United post Ferguson, all the managerial appointments were sound enough at the time but they were give far too much time to waste away.

Moyes
Appointment: Might look silly now but his stock was high after his work with Everton and he kinda felt like a natural replacement for SAF, even given the seal of approval by the man himself.
Sacking: Swift enough, maybe it was easier for Woody seeing as it really wasn't his guy?

LVG
Appointment: Seen as a bit of a shrewd move at the time, done some good work with the Netherlands national team, experience of managing top teams. No brainer.
Sacking: Should have been sacked after that terrible run in the middle of his last season, won the FA cup but it was all handled quite undignified.

Mourinho
Appointment: Damaged goods but it was pretty much written in the stars that he would manage United at some point. Made total sense.
Sacking: Should have been gone during that summer when he wasn't backed.

Solkjaer
Appointment: It was silly to give him the contract before the end of the season but I think it was unavoidable really after that start, would have been appointed anyhow given his popularity.
Sacking: Should have been sacked after that 0-4 game vs Everton in 2019, after that one it was pretty much clear, to me at least, that he didn't have the tactical nous to manage above Norwegian/League One level. Two years later and this pestilence of sentimentality is still on going, wasting everyone's time, not even binned after one of the worst result in the history of the football club. A top class coach in his prime was available yet the club just can't bring themselves to bin this naked emperor.

I’m onboard with replacing ole but this is total utter bollox

I was watching the match last night and just thinking that he’d do well in Italy

he will get a decent job after United

 

[Revan]

Agree on all accounts except Moyes. Should have been sacked in October after Everton/Newcastle back to back losses at home. The season was still salvageable there.

 

[Dominos]

Moyes and Ole were dreadful appointments on paper in the first place.

There was zero logic in appointing them unless being a football manager alone is considered enough to get the United job.

LVG and Mourinho are completely forgivable appointments as at least they'd earned their position to manage a big club.

 

[golden_blunder]

Anyway back to the thread, biggest issue for me is the long contracts and high salary we give out which puts the board off taking these decisions.

some managers are getting a fortune off continually being sacked, maybe it’s time clubs don’t pay people for getting sacked

 

[Revan]

I’m onboard with replacing ole but this is total utter bollox

I was watching the match last night and just thinking that he’d do well in Italy

he will get a decent job after United

Life is long and weird but will be extremely surprised, if he gets a job in a top 5 league within 3 years of being sacked from United.

He wouldn’t last two months in Italy. More media pressure and there is no cult of the manager there, so the owners are very trigger happy (aka, sacking 2-3 managers within a season is completely acceptable).

 

[JPRouve]

I’m onboard with replacing ole but this is total utter bollox

I was watching the match last night and just thinking that he’d do well in Italy

he will get a decent job after United

I don't see how he would do well in Italy, it's probably the worst place for any manager.

 

[golden_blunder]

Life is long and weird but will be extremely surprised, if he gets a job in a top 5 league within 3 years of being sacked from United.

He wouldn’t last two months in Italy. More media pressure and there is no cult of the manager there, so the owners are very trigger happy (aka, sacking 2-3 managers within a season is completely acceptable).

I think he’s gonna get the Norway job next anyway so it’s hypothetical but I think he’s not as bad as people are making out. He’s just reached his threshold with United

 

[Sky1981]

Manager appointment is not some marriage decisions. It's just shoot till you get it.

Bayern, chelsea, barcelona etc does it. They just hire and fire all the time. Doesnt seems like a bad idea.

Our method with SAF is a once in a century star aligning incident, it'll be stupid trying to replicate it.

 

[Skills]

I’m onboard with replacing ole but this is total utter bollox

I was watching the match last night and just thinking that he’d do well in Italy

he will get a decent job after United

Why do you think that?

I don't even think there's a role for him at any Italian club. They don't hire managers - they hire head coaches, and Ole doesn't bother/like doing the hands on training ground stuff.

 

[Sky1981]

I’m onboard with replacing ole but this is total utter bollox

I was watching the match last night and just thinking that he’d do well in Italy

he will get a decent job after United

Italy is well known as a chessmatch. He'd fare much worse there his tactical accumen would be exposed.

 

[golden_blunder]

I don't see how he would do well in Italy, it's probably the worst place for any manager.

I think his game style naturally fits. It the likes of a done Mourinho and other managers who haven’t cut the mustard in England can go there I don’t see why Ole can’t. Everyone is saying but he only managed in Norway but neglecting the fact that when he finishes with United he can point to his CV and say “I’ve managed at Manchester United for over 3 years, one of the toughest jobs in the world”. That will stand him in good stead

 

[Josep Dowling]

Anyway back to the thread, biggest issue for me is the long contracts and high salary we give out which puts the board off taking these decisions.

some managers are getting a fortune off continually being sacked, maybe it’s time clubs don’t pay people for getting sacked

Can’t understand why clubs have to pay out when they sack managers for poor performance. It’s more beneficial these days for managers to be short term, get sacked and walk away with a huge lump sum.

 

[CallyRed]

He would do well Italy.
For a Seria B side perhaps

 

[golden_blunder]

Why do you think that?

I don't even think there's a role for him at any Italian club. They don't hire managers - they hire head coaches, and Ole doesn't bother/like doing the hands on training ground stuff.

You saying fergie wouldn’t have been hired in Italy? Because he did no coaching either
If a club thinks you’re a fit they will make it work

anyway it was just a thought; I think he will get the Norway job next

 

[JPRouve]

Anyway back to the thread, biggest issue for me is the long contracts and high salary we give out which puts the board off taking these decisions.

some managers are getting a fortune off continually being sacked, maybe it’s time clubs don’t pay people for getting sacked

That's why many clubs do the 2+1 contracts and then only extend managers on the basis of 1+1 option year. Anything else is silly because it doesn't match with the average length of a tenure. I rmember a few years ago when people were wondering why a club like PSG cared about not giving long contracts, the answer is that they care about money and even though they have plenty of it, QSI had no intention to waste it for no reason which to shows how the Glazers are incompetent, they don't even care enough about their own pockets.

 

[golden_blunder]

Can’t understand why clubs have to pay out when they sack managers for poor performance. It’s more beneficial these days for managers to be short term, get sacked and walk away with a huge lump sum.

I don’t understand why they get lump sums. I mean a €20m payout is half a decent player

why not no payout for poor performance, that way they can give longer contracts for security but not be tied to keeping the manager if poor performance drives it

 

[Skills]

You saying fergie wouldn’t have been hired in Italy? Because he did no coaching either
If a club thinks you’re a fit they will make it work

anyway it was just a thought; I think he will get the Norway job next

They might have been willing to restructure their clubs for the greatest manager of all time - if they had any hope of getting him.

Why would they do that for Solskjaer?

 

[Siezard]

United is not a sacking club. Everyone is judged based on merits. Ole is able to attract top talents to join him.

The vibe is totally different with LVG or Moyes when the top talents don't want to join.

If Ole keeps winning, I don't see why he needs to be sacked.

 

[90 + 5min]

This has perhaps been the biggest problem for United post Ferguson, all the managerial appointments were sound enough at the time but they were give far too much time to waste away.

Moyes
Appointment: Might look silly now but his stock was high after his work with Everton and he kinda felt like a natural replacement for SAF, even given the seal of approval by the man himself.
Sacking: Swift enough, maybe it was easier for Woody seeing as it really wasn't his guy?

LVG
Appointment: Seen as a bit of a shrewd move at the time, done some good work with the Netherlands national team, experience of managing top teams. No brainer.
Sacking: Should have been sacked after that terrible run in the middle of his last season, won the FA cup but it was all handled quite undignified.

Mourinho
Appointment: Damaged goods but it was pretty much written in the stars that he would manage United at some point. Made total sense.
Sacking: Should have been gone during that summer when he wasn't backed.

Solkjaer
Appointment: It was silly to give him the contract before the end of the season but I think it was unavoidable really after that start, would have been appointed anyhow given his popularity.
Sacking: Should have been sacked after that 0-4 game vs Everton in 2019, after that one it was pretty much clear, to me at least, that he didn't have the tactical nous to manage above Norwegian/League One level. Two years later and this pestilence of sentimentality is still on going, wasting everyone's time, not even binned after one of the worst result in the history of the football club. A top class coach in his prime was available yet the club just can't bring themselves to bin this naked emperor.

Let us do Watford. 18 managers last 10 years. That would do!

 

[JPRouve]

You saying fergie wouldn’t have been hired in Italy? Because he did no coaching either
If a club thinks you’re a fit they will make it work

anyway it was just a thought; I think he will get the Norway job next

SAF did a lot of coaching up until the middle of the 2000s, he said himself that its age that made him realize that he couldn't do everything himself anymore and rely more on his staff. And no italian clubs won't hire a manager, that's not their culture, it's not really the culture in most European countries, you wouldn't get the job as a manager in the first place.

 

[golden_blunder]

They might have been willing to restructure their clubs for the greatest manager of all time - if they had any hope of getting him.

Why would they do that for Solskjaer?

You telling me some smaller Italian team wouldn’t take someone who’s been Manchester United manager for at least 3 years?
Off course they would, IF they think he’s the right fit.

*im not talking about juventus or the Milan clubs here

 

[Giggzy P]

Sounds to me like another made-up narrative to use as a stick to beat the club with.

Moyes - lasted less than a season. Had the toughest job in football, and we gave him about 7/8 months.
LvG - was sacked the day after winning the FA Cup, basically because Jose was available
Jose - had just finished 2nd in the table but was sacked before Christmas the following season
Ole - has never had a bad season/finished in a bad league position as United manager. All the rest is conjecture. The facts are we have finished 3rd and 2nd under Ole. At what point were we supposed to sack him?

Again, there are plenty of problems at the club, but this forum has a tendency to exaggerate or just make something up entirely and before you know it, it's getting repeated back everywhere. You could debate whether Moyes could have gone a month or two earlier, same with Jose...but we're talking weeks/months here, not seasons.

I do think we have probably reached the ceiling of Ole's abilities, but what would we have gained by sacking him already? Clearly hasn't lost the dressing room, the situation isn't toxic, we're in the midst of a really tough run of games...hopefully the Board are now seriously sounding out potential options, rather than just panicking and reacting to 3/4 poor results

That bolded right there is the point of the Thread IMO. If you agree that Ole has reached his ceiling, then it is pointless to keep him. Man United aim should be trophies, not top 4 . What is the point of qualifying for the CL for a club like Man United just to participate? Its so obvious to anyone with eyes that Ole isn't taking us anywhere and no amount of time will change that; so I ask again, what is the point of him being with us.

Moyes Should have been gone by December, same with LVG, we just gave them unnecessary time to prove what we already knew. Same thing is happening with Ole, Jose's is the only sucking we got right ( we unfortunately gave the job to Ole) .
Ole is not taking us where we need to be, something that has been apparent for quite sometime, but somehow with think time, regardless of all the evidence he has given us that he is out of his depth, will miraculously change that.

 

[golden_blunder]

United is not a sacking club. Everyone is judged based on merits. Ole is able to attract top talents to join him.

The vibe is totally different with LVG or Moyes when the top talents don't want to join.

If Ole keeps winning, I don't see why he needs to be sacked.

He won’t be sacked if he keeps winning. Why would he? It’s a results business at the end of the day. Anyone that thinks he will be sacked if he keeps winning is in cloud cuckoo land

 

[Revan]

I think he’s gonna get the Norway job next anyway so it’s hypothetical but I think he’s not as bad as people are making out. He’s just reached his threshold with United

We saw how he did in a lesser club. Relegated followed by getting sacked for being on the verge of another relegation. So yup, I think he is worse than people think.

With regard to Italy, I think it is more tactical. Take for example someone like Gasperini. I think even the most loyal Ole inners would agree that we were lucky to get out of this tie with four points (Atalanta having five starters out in the first match and we needed to come back from 2-0, and then yesterday getting outplayed but cause of Ronaldo getting a point), despite that we have a far stronger squad. Gasperini is a far better manager than Ole. Yet, he is not that rated in Italy. Since his adventure with Inter, when he got appointed in June and sacked in September (talk about being ruthless), not only the big three (Juve, Inter, Milan) haven't touched him, but also the second tier teams like Roma, Lazio, and Napoli haven't gone for him.

And far more importantly, in Italy, they hire coaches. They don't go into religious bullshit like cultural reboot or DNA, but hire coaches to train the players, and sack them when the player don't play well. Considering that Ole is above coaching (he does not do coaching for us), the entire argument is very academical. There is no job for his role there in the first place.

 

[RetroStu]

I think the problem is that even people within the club still get that SAF sitaution, where he had a bad first few years but became one of the best managers ever.
Problem with that is it was a different age back then, and its painfully obvious that Ole is never going to be a SAF situation and become a great manager given time.
Plus SAF had done the ridiculous feats that he had done with Aberdeen, and earnt extra time.

Just dont delay the inevitable, sack him now.

 

[golden_blunder]

We saw how he did in a lesser club. Relegated followed by getting sacked for being on the verge of another relegation. So yup, I think he is worse than people think.

With regard to Italy, I think it is more tactical. Take for example someone like Gasperini. I think even the most loyal Ole inners would agree that we were lucky to get out of this tie with four points (Atalanta having five starters out in the first match and we needed to come back from 2-0, and then yesterday getting outplayed but cause of Ronaldo getting a point), despite that we have a far stronger squad. Gasperini is a far better manager than Ole. Yet, he is not that rated in Italy. Since his adventure with Inter, when he got appointed in June and sacked in September (talk about being ruthless), not only the big three (Juve, Inter, Milan) haven't touched him, but also the second tier teams like Roma, Lazio, and Napoli haven't gone for him.

Cardiff was a mess and SAF advised Ole not to get involved with it but ole was overly keen. He made lots of mistakes including transfers of some players who looked good at youth level (that he coached) but ultimately couldn’t cut the mustard at PL level. I think he’s learned some lessons from that. He needs to because it fooked his CV.

but when he does leave this job he can leave saying he managed United

 

[Jezpeza]

I’m onboard with replacing ole but this is total utter bollox

I was watching the match last night and just thinking that he’d do well in Italy

he will get a decent job after United

I thought we were doing alright until this season. Dissapointing results at the business end of cups but back to back top 4 and a huge transformation of the squad. The squad has not been good enough to challenge for the title until this season. Some argue about the title last year when we were at the top in January but lets face it we were an injury to Maguire or Bruno away from doom last year in the league marathon. We were not thick enough in certain areas of the squad.

I’d hoped Ole would grow with the team but i think they have left him behind and theres been a massive regression this season and he isn't getting much of a tune out of this very very good squad(though still questions at cm).

I disagree with all the ‘i told you so’ people who have been against him since the bad run at the end of his first half season. That narrative builds upon a land of unicorns and rainbows where a top manager could have come into the smoking ruin and garbage squad left at the end of JM’s tenure and signed 2 players and won the league. I wouldnt be surprised if the board were looking for a different manager in that period who would pretty much have said ‘unless you give me x hundred million in the summer because i need 9 players of starting quality i’m not taking the poisoned chalice’.

Looking back on it, Maybe our caretakers job needed to be 3 years, rather than the usual handful of games.

The big question now is if he does go, who do we replace him with? The best bet just joined Spurs. it’s all good looking at people like Ten Haag but people like him have come to the premier league and been hopeless before. I dont see who is available from the top drawer that has the experience and ability and is proven other than Roberto Mancini perhaps?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

United's problem has been that their managers aren't so bad that they deserve a quick and ruthless firing (except Moyes).

People are using Chelsea as an example. Conte had a bad second season and finished 5th, which is grounds for a sacking. They replaced him with Sarri, who they ended up firing a season later after failing to mount a title challenge and barely making it into the CL... but replaced him with Lampard, who wasn't really that good in the end, and only lasted a season and a half. They got extremely lucky that Tuchel was available, and kinda fluked a CL title. That's 3+ seasons of faltering results, only to get lucky in one appointment... I don't know that this is a great model to follow.

As others have pointed out, Ole has had higher league finishes than Conte and Sarri did when they were fired. Lampard wasn't fired for finishing 4th. The problem with being 'ruthless' is that the line between 'ruthlessness' and 'not meeting basic benchmarks' is blurry.

 

[JPRouve]

I think his game style naturally fits. It the likes of a done Mourinho and other managers who haven’t cut the mustard in England can go there I don’t see why Ole can’t. Everyone is saying but he only managed in Norway but neglecting the fact that when he finishes with United he can point to his CV and say “I’ve managed at Manchester United for over 3 years, one of the toughest jobs in the world”. That will stand him in good stead

Mourinho won things at the highest level and spent part of his prime in Italy, he had credit in the bank due to that which doesn't apply to Ole. Ole is in the Redknapp category, I could easily see him get jobs in the PL and do okay but Italy is not where I see him sign for a good team or succeed.

 

[Skills]

You saying fergie wouldn’t have been hired in Italy? Because he did no coaching either
If a club thinks you’re a fit they will make it work

anyway it was just a thought; I think he will get the Norway job next

Nah I don't think he would, because having managed United for 3 years and won nothing is not actually a badge in his favour.

I don't think a PL club will touch. I don't think many of our fans realise, how low he is rated outside of the bubble of Manchester United.

 

[Mindhunter]

This. I think the board is traumatized by how some seemingly straight forward appointments didn't work out and seem to think that admitting a mistake early on and rectifying it is beneath them.

We are also hung over on finding the next Fergie when we should admit that Fergie was a one off and the factors that are needed to recreate it go beyond patience and massive investment - the manager's qualities and the state of competition also play a major role because you can't dwell on a five year rebuild with City and Liverpool being rampant as they are right now, you risk being left behind for a very long time.

No. There have been leaks in the media that our owners balked at the severance package for Ole and Conte's demands. They didn't want that kind of financial outlay. The perception of incompetence suits them but these decisions are economically motivated.