Some of those presidents owned slaves.
Obama's Legacy
- Thread starter Eboue
- Start date
Whiners alway whine. Classic case of people not seeing the rainbow looking for the pot of gold!
Complain and the vote for a nobody in Julian Castro! Politics 101.
See him as a ‘meh’ President beyond his election as a black man and his charming personality. Some good, some bad - all during a pretty shite/difficult time for America.
The right wingers who call him the worst president ever are on crack.
The right wingers who call him the worst president ever are on crack.
The healthcare law, which is his signature achievement has so far withstood everything the GOP could throw at it. That's his legacy. His foreign policy will not age well and that has a lot to do with Clinton's hawkishness with regime change policies and subsequently Obama's passiveness over Assad.
However he was dealt some bad hands with an increasingly partisan opposition, the tea party movement and a historically weak ally in Britain.
However he was dealt some bad hands with an increasingly partisan opposition, the tea party movement and a historically weak ally in Britain.
He changed America from a laughing stock in the Bush days to being taken seriously again where the rest of the world actually looked to America with respect, and now of course it's been completely destroyed to the point where America is once again a laughing stock because of the daily embarrassment caused by somebody who can't read or spell advocating for them in all caps.
Well, for starters, Lincoln ended slavery. He could have achieved jack shit in every other year, siphoned money from the poor and what not, and still go down as a good president.
He stumbled into that. He was happy to keep slavery and preserve the union.
When he had his Super Majority he should have fought tooth and nail for a Public Option.
But he did not because he had already cut his deals.
Then for 2016 he pushed that gargoyle Hillary.
And now we have the Orangutan.
But he did not because he had already cut his deals.
Then for 2016 he pushed that gargoyle Hillary.
And now we have the Orangutan.
If that's a yearly premium, I don't think its that bad. I used to pay $600 per semester, subsidised by my university when I was in grad school and couldn't be on my parent's plan.
That's monthly.
That has to be a monthly premium surely.
That sucks.
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Bit of an understatement, it's absolutely insane..
No it hasn’t. The GOP used every legal recourse to ultimately handicap it.
I feel history will not be that generous to his time in office relative to his current standing, even though he’s immensely preferable to those either side of him. We haven’t had a great President since Ike.
I don't think history would be very kind to anyone involved in US politics since the Clinton scandal and Bush Jr starting office. Obama has the advantage of being sandwiched between two of the worst presidents in US history so he ultimately comes out looking better.
Not sure about that very last part but sure I can accept your point. However when you said good I assumed you meant by positive accomplishments, not their moralistic underpinnings.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/19/yes-tried-barack-obama-legacy-gary-younge
Yes we can.....yes he tried
Yes we can.....yes he tried
@Eboue
Is there any hope at all for the US? If there can be no good president, would you propose a different form of government? Or nuclear winter to start all over with banging each other on the head with a club and see if we can do better a second time around?
Is there any hope at all for the US? If there can be no good president, would you propose a different form of government? Or nuclear winter to start all over with banging each other on the head with a club and see if we can do better a second time around?
Well most of the historical presidents were bad because they were racists and slave owners. And now we've got the imperial presidency so it's hard to imagine being the guy in charge of that and not committing war crimes.
That's the thing. It's pretty much impossible to be an entirely good president. You're simply too dependant on doing the bidding of the rich and powerful. That reelection campaign wont finance itself and no one really gives a feck about people with no money and power. What are they going to do, run you over in their second hand Korean car?
Terrible way to judge folk. Who's to say we won't look bad next century, since we slaughtered millions of animals for food?
Your country is fecked. Your electoral system broken, and your electorate broken further. However this does not mean there has never been good/successful presidents in terms of progress. Or do you think life was better in the 19th century?
Think this is incredibly unfair on Obama. When he came into power he should have used his first 100 days differently, but we only know that on hindsight. By all accounts he is a good man, a moral leader and someone who was willing to compromise, always trying to do what was right for his country. Being President (used to be) the most difficult job in the world, and no man has ever done it perfectly.
The fact that he had Mitch McConnell on the other side basically made his ability to be a President void. McConnell will hopefully go down in history as a blight on the very idea of statemanship.
The worst thing Obama did was become a target, because he is black. Not sure you can blame that on him, rather than the racist idiots that are now the GOP.
The fact that he had Mitch McConnell on the other side basically made his ability to be a President void. McConnell will hopefully go down in history as a blight on the very idea of statemanship.
The worst thing Obama did was become a target, because he is black. Not sure you can blame that on him, rather than the racist idiots that are now the GOP.
True. On an absolute scale they are all cnuts.
It's a relative ranking. I can compare them to each other, and rate them, keeping in mind the moral standards of their time. Even by his time's standards, Andrew Jackson was an odious cnut. No wonder Trump idolizes him.
This is a cop out. Examine his record and the people he put into power. "Worst thing he did is become a target". The man drone strikes civilians. He killed a 16 year old american citizen ffs.
@Eboue comment I think hits at the root.
Owning slaves was socially acceptable in 1700s. Droning people of the wrong religion half way around the world is considered socially acceptable today for Western leaders. On an absolute level there are a lot more people negatively affected by the modern Presidents. Does that make it morally worse?
Also to follow up, plenty of people said it at the time. It wasn't just a hindsight thing.
We probably will. But I think owning slaves is a good way to figure out which people were bad.
Yup. Trump is all because of Obama, nothing to do with the American voters. I mean, why even vote since Obama decides these things.
That is very simplistic to look at things. Have you explore what were his other options? Does using another strategy results in more losses or if doing nothing causes more death / suffering?
Some shite happened:
- America don't go in, people dies = America lacks compassion = bad guy
- America goes in, people dies = America cause death = bad guy
- America pulls out, allies unable to fend off attacks, people dies = America bad guy
- America don't pull out, people keep dying = America bad guy
In all fairness one has to ask considering how batshit crazy the republicans are and how racist - what more could we really expect of a Black president to achieve when no doubt they conspired to obstruct him wherever possible.
He underperformed no doubt but IMO his low energy stemmed from the realisation that in many ways he was facing a losing battle from day 1.
He underperformed no doubt but IMO his low energy stemmed from the realisation that in many ways he was facing a losing battle from day 1.
From the outside looking in I would class Obama as a disappointing president more than a bad one.
He was bad within the normal parameters of a president. He was just more of the same, despite promising change.
Maybe I am giving him too much credit, but I always feel like he had good instincts but was weak and afraid of rocking the boat, so always went with what he judged to be the safe, pro establishment option.
I guess every presidential candidate always promises the earth and then fails to deliver. But in his case it felt especially disappointing. I think the disappointment from a president that was meant to do so much, but ended up achieving so little, did a lot to fuel the anti establishment vote that carried Trump to office.
He was bad within the normal parameters of a president. He was just more of the same, despite promising change.
Maybe I am giving him too much credit, but I always feel like he had good instincts but was weak and afraid of rocking the boat, so always went with what he judged to be the safe, pro establishment option.
I guess every presidential candidate always promises the earth and then fails to deliver. But in his case it felt especially disappointing. I think the disappointment from a president that was meant to do so much, but ended up achieving so little, did a lot to fuel the anti establishment vote that carried Trump to office.
Surely this point can't be overlooked? He was always going to be immensely obstructed.
The droning is to target terrorists in other countries who are actively plotting against the US or its interests. It's actually far more targeted and technology driven than let's say the indiscriminate firing of cannons or artillery into large civilian populations a couple of hundred years ago, so in that sense, far more people were negatively affected by Presidents in past centuries than in the present.
It would have been interesting to see him operate in a world that he had house and senate behind him.
Far from a good president. Not a bad president though. If he wasn’t black he’d be forgettable and bland.
He broke ground. Trod a path. There’s achievement there. Even if it was all largely meaningless.
Hands down Number 1 president to share a beer with though. Kills me that people register Trump as the first Celebrity President. Obama turned the Oval Office into a paparazzi zone. He’s a good dude.
There are still tonnes of mistakes, bad intel and in some cases a lack of any care about potential collateral damage. You can say the intent is always to kill terrorists only but the reality is that decisions are made without regard to potential collateral damage. So the moral question is still there. For me at least. I don't think the decision makers can be absolved of all guilt simply because the company line is "we only intend to kill terrorists, any civilians are just an accident, sorry". And then you can get into much more tricky moral quandaries. For instance deals made with warlords who abuse human rights, overlooking crimes from dictators, strongmen, royalty because some feel it is in the geo-strategic interest of the US to mollify human rights abusers, etc.