Old Trafford revamp/could be torn down and rebuilt according to Glazer plans

[Red00012]

Did you miss that West Ham's stadium was temporary until West Ham decided they wanted to be tenants? The original 2012 OIympic ground was designed to be dismantled.

Did you miss all of the other temporary grounds that have been built over the years? Stadium 974 at the World Cup just a few months ago doesn't exist anymore because it was temporary and built to be dismantled and that was 40000 plus.

Did you miss any number of teams that have built temporary grounds to play in whilst their ground was refurbished or a new one was built?

Only idiots who have no clue about stadium building would laugh about it. So I guess you must be an idiot.



I went to every home game in 2012/13.

I've been probably 100 times overall.

I get it, it's home, but homes don't last forever.

We have to move with the times. Spurs managed to built New White Hart Lane right next to Old White Hart Lane, it can be done, we don't move, we still play at Old Trafford, on United way, the history of the ground is still there and can be paid tribute to by the new one.

As I've said before, people like yourself would have us still playing at Bank Street or North Road and Old Trafford would never even exist. The attachment, the memories, etc don't go, they live on because you let them live on. I'm sure for a few years after the move in 1910, Old Trafford felt like a flat atmosphere that hadn't recreated where we used to play. It takes time to rebuild the connection but it will happen based on what happens on the pitch. That first Fergie time comeback winner in the new ground will have everyone forgetting the old place.

As an example, people who saw us win the European Cup in 1968 now have memories of a ground that doesn't exist anymore, hell I saw us win the FA Cup in 1994, 1996 and 1999 and that ground doesn't exist anymore, it doesn't mean I've forgotten the day or what it felt like to win. Wembley now isn't the Wembley it was then but we've already won things at the new ground and created memories there too. We can make a new Old Trafford just as special as the current ground is to all of us.





We're never, ever gonna rent the Etihad.

It might've been feasible during/after the war when times were different but the rivalry is so bitter now that there's zero chance that City would chance letting 50/60k United fans into their ground without accepting that it's gonna get defaced/damaged repeatedly and there's no way United fans will accept having to go to the Etihad every other game.

What are you talking about , that stadium wasn’t built for West Ham it was built for the Olympics . Do you see a stadium around Manchester that’s just sitting idle ???
Ya great comparison comparing the Qatar WC which is the biggest football competition in the world to a temporary situation that we are looking for You’re making yourself look like an idiot not me.

 

[astracrazy]

Let me tell you something. The Gillete stadium for New England patriots has 3 tiers. Between the second and third tier there is a 5 story building. Yes 5 story building for kinds of suites and boxes. OT will do the same. Anyone on the 3rd level can’t see anything on the pitch. Be careful what you wish for.

What nonsense.

 

[Red in STL]

If renovation becomes the equivalent of Triggers broom having 17 new heads and 14 new handles then what's the point if the only thing preventing a new stadium is sentimentality?

It's already past Trigger's broom!

 

[Red in STL]

I wonder how many of the people saying Old Trafford should be rebuilt or United should relocate, have actually been to Old Trafford, and how many on a regular basis?


Old Trafford IS Manchester United. It's our home, our fortress, our Mecca.

Relocation isn't an option imho, it's called United Way for a reason! Knocking it down and rebuilding? Can't see the point tbh, and where would United play in the meantime?

Renovating is the only answer imho. To be fair, renovating could mean rebuilding for large parts of the stadium, and if done properly, the impact to finances and attendance could be minimal.

I dunno, I guess I'm just a romantic. Arsenal and Spurs and City and soon Everton have all upgraded and moved location, but aside from the Emirates, I'm not sure if it's been a positive move. I think relocation just causes issues and it takes a long time for a new stadium to become 'hone' as well as the history lost with the stadium you leave behind.


Highbury was always a classic stadium to go to, the fans almost on the pitch, but credit to Arsenal, The Emirates seems to have been a positive move. The others, I'm not so sure. City can't fill their ground despite all the money spent and the trophies won, even when they do, the atmosphere is nothing like it was at Maine Road. Spurs new ground gets a better attendance for sure, but I think it's lost the allure and atmosphere that White Hart Lane had. I guess we will have to wait and see with Everton.

It didn't used to be called United Way, in fact that's a fairly recent name

 

[Red in STL]

I suggest people look at the Google maps aerial view, to remain on the current site there only 2 options - https://www.google.com/maps/place/M...69495f08b49cc49!8m2!3d53.4631062!4d-2.2912515

The current stadium is either renovated or it's knocked down

 

[Furious George]

The current stadium is either renovated or it's knocked down

I wish I had your foresight.

 

[Red in STL]

I wish I had your foresight.

Don't need foresight, it's pretty obvious that there's only 2 options on the current site, the thought of building a stadium alongside the current one is a non-starter due to lack of space

Personally I would knock it down but I understand people who don't want that, but if you want a modern stadium with the kind of facilities and increased capacity that most seem to want then a new stadium is the more sensible decision IMO, I'm sure most people don't want to move which of course is also an option, personally I'd prefer to stay but I can also see the advantages of being able to build a whole complex, training ground, fan village, academy stadium and so on in one place

 

[next_number_seven]

Don't need foresight, it's pretty obvious that there's only 2 options on the current site, the thought of building a stadium alongside the current one is a non-starter due to lack of space

Personally I would knock it down but I understand people who don't want that, but if you want a modern stadium with the kind of facilities and increased capacity that most seem to want then a new stadium is the more sensible decision IMO, I'm sure most people don't want to move which of course is also an option, personally I'd prefer to stay but I can also see the advantages of being able to build a whole complex, training ground, fan village, academy stadium and so on in one place

Are you certain there's not enough space to build a new stadium alongside the old one?

I've heard people say there's enough as Many United own lots of land around the stadium.

Alternatively we'd have to do similar to Tottenham and play in City's stadium for a season although I'm not sure they'd want that.

 

[Hal9000]

I suggest people look at the Google maps aerial view, to remain on the current site there only 2 options - https://www.google.com/maps/place/M...69495f08b49cc49!8m2!3d53.4631062!4d-2.2912515

The current stadium is either renovated or it's knocked down

Not true, Red is all the land that the club currently own. Purple i believe we own as aswell. Then we also have some patches between Wharfside way and the canal. The friegth terminal alone is 26 acres. (p.s. not hotel football, i believe that used to be a supporters club house who refused to sell then sold to Neville and co, i just accendently highlighted it)

 

[Red in STL]

Are you certain there's not enough space to build a new stadium alongside the old one?

I've heard people say there's enough as Many United own lots of land around the stadium.

Alternatively we'd have to do similar to Tottenham and play in City's stadium for a season although I'm not sure they'd want that.

Look at the aerial map of the area - I posted the Google maps link earlier - it's hard to see where there is space if you compare the current stadium footprint, I'm not an engineer so I can't say for certain but to the east is a major road and to the west there's a rail freight terminal, north and south there's nothing - I just don't see where you can build a large capacity stadium without the existing one being knocked down

Edit: if the colored map is accurate then I suppose north of the rail terminal might be doable, I didn't think they owned as much land as that though

 

[Hal9000]

Look at the aerial map of the area - I posted the Google maps link earlier - it's hard to see where there is space if you compare the current stadium footprint, I'm not an engineer so I can't say for certain but to the east is a major road and to the west there's a rail freight terminal, north and south there's nothing - I just don't see where you can build a large capacity stadium without the existing one being knocked down

Edit: if the colored map is accurate then I suppose north of the rail terminal might be doable, I didn't think they owned as much land as that though

We own a lot. Even the frieght terminal is enough, it's 26 acres and then you also have the west and north car parks aswell than can be built on.

https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/manchester-united-sign-panaloc-for-trafford-park-warehouse/
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ws/manchester-united-pays-82m-for-land-872779
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/property/united-scoring-in-property-market-918142
https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/security-fears-prompt-man-utd-to-buy-industrial-estate/

 

[Orion.]

I’ve been told by a very accomplished chap that City are looking forward to the prospect accommodating United for a few years. It’s already been approved by the council and City’s hierarchy, and the plan to take it to 60k was resurrected purely for that reason, as there was no projected demand for it via City fans. They actually enjoy the prospect of having the Etihad brand affiliated with United for a few years for free.

it’s also allegedly been discussed to implement neutral coloured seats during the proposed shared tenancy too.

 

[Red in STL]

We own a lot. Even the frieght terminal is enough, it's 26 acres and then you also have the west and north car parks aswell than can be built on.

https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/manchester-united-sign-panaloc-for-trafford-park-warehouse/
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ws/manchester-united-pays-82m-for-land-872779
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/property/united-scoring-in-property-market-918142
https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/security-fears-prompt-man-utd-to-buy-industrial-estate/

They certainly do, not sure they'll be able to use the Freight terminal area but I guess the other areas would depend on the lease conditions

I guess you can also argue that the Glazer's were not wholly useless because without all this there's not a whole lot that could be done!

 

[Red in STL]

I’ve been told by a very accomplished chap that City are looking forward to the prospect accommodating United for a few years. It’s already been approved by the council and City’s hierarchy, and they actually enjoy the prospect of having the Etihad brand affiliated with United for a few years for free.

it’s actually been discussed to implement neutral coloured seats during the proposed shared tenancy too.

I'm not sure City's hierarchy would have much say unless their lease agreement explicitly says they have exclusive use

 

[Heinzesight]

Can any new owner please bring back the half time Cash Dash at Old Trafford?

 

[langster]

Can any new owner please bring back the half time Cash Dash at Old Trafford?

I won that. United v Juve Feb 2003! Boom! £2000 and a giant Nat West cheque. Presented with it on the pitch as Beckham, Scholes and Giggs ran on behind me. Honestly one of the best days of my life.

 

[hp88]

Not true, Red is all the land that the club currently own. Purple i believe we own as aswell. Then we also have some patches between Wharfside way and the canal. The friegth terminal alone is 26 acres. (p.s. not hotel football, i believe that used to be a supporters club house who refused to sell then sold to Neville and co, i just accendently highlighted it)

Didn’t realise we owned that much land, guess it’s one thing the Glazers got right.

 

[RopersReturn]

Ironically it’s often more economical to start from scratch than to renovate due to the types of materials originally used and re-insulation. So I’d opt for a new build.

There’s a huge footprint of land we own and it makes sense to utilise to its full potential, plus being right next to the railway restricts re-development and is probably not great for the footings and overall structure.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Not true, Red is all the land that the club currently own. Purple i believe we own as aswell. Then we also have some patches between Wharfside way and the canal. The friegth terminal alone is 26 acres. (p.s. not hotel football, i believe that used to be a supporters club house who refused to sell then sold to Neville and co, i just accendently highlighted it)

Would they be allowed to build on the freight terminal as really that looks like the only spot you could build a new stadium without having to go through OT.

Old Trafford is iconic and it will be hard to see it go but surely it would be more cost effective to build a new stadium. If it could be done on other parts of land that we owned then I’m sure OT could Probably be used as some sort of venue with a moderate fix up. Or feck it,ladies here is your stadium so you don’t have to play at Leigh sports village.

 

[Guapa]

Rebuild alongside for me.

Be ready for the start '25 season ?

 

[red thru&thru]

Rebuild alongside for me.

Yep, me too. Hopefully we can try and retain current ground somehow.

But if Sheikh Jassim Bin Hamad Al Thani purcahses the club, then he will lean on the people who built so many stadiums during the world cup.

 

[Dempsey19]

What's a realistic capacity for a new stadium ?

 

[Spoony]

What's a realistic capacity for a new stadium ?

90k?

We just need to match the three tiers of North Stand above the Strettie and K stand. Basically knock the second tier down above the goal ends and quads and match the three North tiers but with bigger treads and seats to compensate modern obesity and just refurbish the South Stand. This way we'd keep the character and have more leg space and larger seats. I've priced it up and it'd cost £400m. We'd increase the capacity by a few thousand due the new quadrants next to the South Stand but more importantly the stadium will remain and fans will have a tad more space.

Howzat?

 

[Heinzesight]

I won that. United v Juve Feb 2003! Boom! £2000 and a giant Nat West cheque. Presented with it on the pitch as Beckham, Scholes and Giggs ran on behind me. Honestly one of the best days of my life.

That is amazing. Comedy size check the icing on the cake

Wish they still read out the half time scores too.

 

[pocco]

That is amazing. Comedy size check the icing on the cake

Wish they still read out the half time scores too.

Damn I forgot about that, wonder when they stopped? Must have been when we were dropping points all the time under LVG or Moyes maybe and everybody else was winning, would have just been throwing salt in the wounds

 

[matherto]

What are you talking about , that stadium wasn’t built for West Ham it was built for the Olympics . Do you see a stadium around Manchester that’s just sitting idle ???
Ya great comparison comparing the Qatar WC which is the biggest football competition in the world to a temporary situation that we are looking for You’re making yourself look like an idiot not me.

The original plan for the Olympic stadium was for it to be dismantled after the Olympics, it was a temporary venue. The plan then changed for a football team to use it hence why it became a thing between West Ham/Spurs/Leyton Orient.

How is a comparison with the Qatar WC not a great comparison when it shows that you can build large, temporary venues fitted out exactly like we need and then have it dismantled when we've got a new ground?

And no, I don't see a stadium sitting idle in Manchester, that's why you'd build one for us to play in whilst a new OT is built, temporary stadiums don't take long to go up and it's a fairly common practice these days, it's not rocket science.

You can laugh all you like but you're just showing that you know absolutely nothing about stadium construction.

 

[Spoony]

The original plan for the Olympic stadium was for it to be dismantled after the Olympics, it was a temporary venue. The plan then changed for a football team to use it hence why it became a thing between West Ham/Spurs/Leyton Orient.

How is a comparison with the Qatar WC not a great comparison when it shows that you can build large, temporary venues fitted out exactly like we need and then have it dismantled when we've got a new ground?

And no, I don't see a stadium sitting idle in Manchester, that's why you'd build one for us to play in whilst a new OT is built, temporary stadiums don't take long to go up and it's a fairly common practice these days, it's not rocket science.

You can laugh all you like but you're just showing that you know absolutely nothing about stadium construction.

They could temporarily extend the cricket ground.

 

[Sushi Kagawa]

The original plan for the Olympic stadium was for it to be dismantled after the Olympics, it was a temporary venue. The plan then changed for a football team to use it hence why it became a thing between West Ham/Spurs/Leyton Orient.

How is a comparison with the Qatar WC not a great comparison when it shows that you can build large, temporary venues fitted out exactly like we need and then have it dismantled when we've got a new ground?

And no, I don't see a stadium sitting idle in Manchester, that's why you'd build one for us to play in whilst a new OT is built, temporary stadiums don't take long to go up and it's a fairly common practice these days, it's not rocket science.

You can laugh all you like but you're just showing that you know absolutely nothing about stadium construction.

The olympic stadium was never temporary. Post olympics it was going to remain as an athletics venue but that changed when football clubs were interested.

So you're simply incorrect that it was a temporary venue

 

[Bubz27]

I don't think I'd mind a knockdown to be honest. But seeing this fills me with dread. The design can't be this 'bowl' effect that seems so popular now.

 

[DutchSerb]

Who voted leave as is, the mice?

 

[langster]

That is amazing. Comedy size check the icing on the cake

Wish they still read out the half time scores too.

Honestly, the best part was when they called the number, I was at the top of the North Stand, I had to go to a Steward and he rushed me and my sister through the VIP area, past the MUTV area, down through the stadium and then right past all the Juve fans down on to the pitch.

The one thing that will never leave me is the smell of the turf. It was so strong and not something you really get from the stands, I've been lucky enough to sit behind Fergie in the South stand and never had that smell from the pitch. That smell and being so close to Fergie, Scholes, Beckham and Giggs and being on the pitch as they ran out after half time and surrounded by 70,000 fans... That was better than the money.

 

[matherto]

The olympic stadium was never temporary. Post olympics it was going to remain as an athletics venue but that changed when football clubs were interested.

So you're simply incorrect that it was a temporary venue

The majority of the ground was temporary, the athletics venue was going to be tiny only using parts of the lower tier. So I'm not incorrect.

 

[Dan]

It took 2 years (not including the groundworks) to build Stadium 974, so I can’t see the feasibility of building a temporary stadium.

 

[langster]

It took 2 years (not including the groundworks) to build Stadium 974, so I can’t see the feasibility of building a temporary stadium.

Would it be more feasible to renovate the stadium bit by bit? Admittedly it will mean a loss of revenue for a while, but it will mean Old Trafford remains Old Trafford and not having to relocate, even if it is only to the car park next door.

 

[Sushi Kagawa]

The majority of the ground was temporary, the athletics venue was going to be tiny only using parts of the lower tier. So I'm not incorrect.

Exactly it was going to be a permanent athletics venue so yes you're incorrect. Not really sure what you're trying to argue here.

 

[Hal9000]

The majority of the ground was temporary, the athletics venue was going to be tiny only using parts of the lower tier. So I'm not incorrect.

That was original brief, that all but the lower tier would be taken apart. How ever the final brief was that it would be a perm structure.

 

[Hal9000]

Would they be allowed to build on the freight terminal as really that looks like the only spot you could build a new stadium without having to go through OT.

Old Trafford is iconic and it will be hard to see it go but surely it would be more cost effective to build a new stadium. If it could be done on other parts of land that we owned then I’m sure OT could Probably be used as some sort of venue with a moderate fix up. Or feck it,ladies here is your stadium so you don’t have to play at Leigh sports village.

Why wouldn't they be? It's our land. The reason why we've been buying up the land was because of "sporting developments and security" how ever the Sporting developments never came because Glazers...

 

[Red in STL]

Why wouldn't they be? It's our land. The reason why we've been buying up the land was because of "sporting developments and security" how ever the Sporting developments never came because Glazers...

They'd never get planning permission to build over the freight terminal + it was originally a lease though that might have changed

 

[Hal9000]

They'd never get planning permission to build over the freight terminal + it was originally a lease though that might have changed

United property manager said this about the land they have been buying.

"This is not an investment portfolio. Properties have been acquired at different times for strategic reasons looking into the future. We have no specific plans for these sites at the moment but our owners feel it is prudent to prepare for the future when they might be needed for sports-related development"

You don't build a £300 million land and property portfolio without being able to do what you eventually plan to do.

Leasehold land, still lets you build/develop on that land witihin the terms of the lease.

 

[Infra-red]

Rebuild alongside for me.

Be ready for the start '25 season ?

A new build would likely take 7-10 years from announcement to completion (based on similar stadium projects eg Wembley, Emirates and Tottenham). 2030 would possibly be a realistic timescale.