Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2019/20 Discussion

BusbyMalone

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I would say pump the brakes a little bit on the Ancelotti praise. As United fans we of all people should know what a manager does in his first few months is not necessarily indicative of any long term success.
 

Samid

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Like OGS last year?
That was 90 % of my point. People in this thread go way over the top every time a new manager wins a couple of games, and use that as a stick to beat Ole with, completely ignoring that the manager they're bashing in fact had a new manager bounce lasting 3 months. There are thousands of sticks to beat Ole with (rightly so) but arguments like 'they actually have a style within weeks', 'this proves you don't need 6 windows to win a game' etc. are completely nonsensical. Anyone failing to see the irony in those arguments must have lived under a rock during Ole's first couple of months here.

Haha, I know man. That gets conveniently overlooked doesn't it. Slate other managers for being beneficiaries of a new-manager-bounce while pretending the man they are defending wasn't appointed based on that alone...…and has since proven that it was that alone!
Way to completely miss the point. I've said Ole is out of his depth a million times. Nowhere did I 'defend' him. Nowhere did I 'overlook' anything. This post pretty much sums up the majority of the regulars in this thread. Put words into others' mouths, create pathetic straw man arguments and then act holier than thou.
 

Andycoleno9

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This "rebuilding" shit which will last few years( Ole's excuse) is a big BS.
18 months ago we had team which finished second and had players in their best age. Only Young and Valencia were over 30y old. We basically needed 3 or 4 proven players and we would be title challenger. Even if Mourinho was a problem we could have hired proven manager and stay up. Without trashing reputation and without risking losing money from sponsors because of poor results.
We could have just do what was logical. Sell deadwood and buy couple of players.

What Ole did in reality? He sold players who were good enough for this squad( Lukaku, Alexis, Fellaini, Herrera), kept deadwood( Jones, Mata, Lingard) and spent 200 mil on new players to make this squad even worse.
 

Samid

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I would say pump the brakes a little bit on the Ancelotti praise. As United fans we of all people should know what a manager does in his first few months is not necessarily indicative of any long term success.
Angry mob will be here any moment telling you that you 'conveniently overlooked' that Ancelotti is a better manager than Ole and that you should be ashamed to even mention those two in the same sentence.
 

AneRu

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Angry mob will be here any moment telling you that you 'conveniently overlooked' that Ancelotti is a better manager than Ole and that you should be ashamed to even mention those two in the same sentence.
I think his three CL wins say otherwise, they really shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence to be honest. Ole will do well to have a career that Moyes has had let alone comparing him to Ancelotti.
 

patty123

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Didn't, considered Rush, Gerrard as legends. Didn't even put Carragher in there.
gerrard is a legend for slipping, the spitter was an over rated tool, but Rush gave them 15 yrs of service, scored a goal more less every 1 and a bit games (660 games, 346 goals) won 5 league tiles, 3 fa cups and 2 euro/cl cups so yet thats a legend.
 

LuckyScout78

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Ole, he is lacking two basic and logical thing.

1.
Solve your team biggest problem. Fix where you have to fix first. Like your car. You drive from distance A to B. Your car get problems and it stop. You found out the main reason why the car. And still there are few others problems. Like poor old wheels, but it is still running. So you got fixed the main problem and still driving with the poor wheels to your destination B. Then you bought new wheels at des.B

It is in all situations.If you want a car or something collective to keep perform, to your highest expectations. If it is a big problem and lesser small and lesser important problems. You have to fix your biggest problem first.
A Football team is like car. Consist of many units. Like wheels, engine, brake, fuel/battery and others units.
In United case. United had good enough CB to get into top 4 in Smalling, Jones, Bailly, Lindelof, Tuanzebe and Rojo.
Compare to United CM and RW options.
CM options : Pogba. Big big talent, but a mood player. Compare to Liverpool more consistent mood player in Milner and Henderson. McTom, Matic, Fred and Perreira.
RW: Mata, Greenwood, Chong and James

So for this 3 positions. The analyzing of the qualities of this 3 pos. CB, CM and RW. RW is clearly the weakest position. Second the CM and 3 and last the CB pos. Then Ole prior to fix the lesser important problem first. With a world record for a CB. No new RW and CM. This is the main and true fact, why the car United is inconsistent and is not able to fight and drive in to the top 4 pos. And it is down to the decisions of the manager. The driver of the car/United.
United and Ole is driving on a unsteady car, on the road and path of top 4. Not to mention the road of the champion.

2.second basic thing. This is about to have a view of a bigger picture. Example. Ole didn’t found Lukaku good enough or Lukaku didn’t suit his football style and philosophy. To truly rate a football player good enough. You have to look at a bigger picture. Then one of the biggest factor behind a player and team success. Is the qualities of his teammates. The qualities of the service and support. Then i will still use the car example. Even your car have a really strong and good engine HK. Your car still need top quality wheels and others factors. Together, supporting each others and merging into a unit calling car and a team.

Ole and Woodward is saying lately United are on a rebuilding process. It mean United have many weak links need ti improve and strength. And if the quality of the positions in the problem above are not good. In this case average. In the last half of last season. It will and naturally affects Lukaku and others attacking performance. Same with Smalling and other CB. Without Herrera and McTom United were and are struggling. Then you thought your CB or CF are not good enough. Then you bought a world record CB. And no replacement for Lukaku. Because most of the time was spending on a CB and a nr.10.

And you can see how Lukaku is performing with a set of better and more consistent teammates in Inter, same for Smalling and if Sanchez was playing more for Inter too.

And about the norwegian striker Haaland and his dad as guidance. If they see and have a right view of a bigger and a right correct of rating football players. No way on earth would Haaland choose United over Dortmund. Lookt at the quality of football players at Dortmund. The service there. Witsel, Sancho, Reus, Brandt and Hazard. And if you play as main striker there. You will know how many chances they will create for you. The boy chose it right. Mind over sentimental and norwegian connection and a previous manager.

Yeah Lukaku was unprofessional in the end and force a way out. But Lukaku knew he was behind Rashford in the pecking order as the main striker. And from his stand point of view. If you are not wanted, will sit on the bench most of the time. Then you want to leave for more play time. You can’t only blame on Lukaku to be unprofessional and to force his way out. He knew he didn’t wanted by Ole.
But if Ole bought a RW or a nr.8 like Bruno instead of Maguire. Spend time on a Nr.8 and RW instead of a CB, in the summer. If United got Bruno in last summer and keep Smalling. I am sure with Chelsea, Arsenal,Wolves and Spurs inconsistent run and season so far. United would be in top 4 by now. By having Bruno from start and injury until now, instead of Maguire. And with a not top class CB options in Smalling, Lindelof and Jones. Not top class CBs , but still good enough for top 4 spot. On same level of Leicester CB options. The difference between United and Leicester is the fullbacks, midfield and front four.

So sum up and conclusion. If Ole want to do better and do more right decisions. Its not only for Ole. Others leaders on others area of society. If you don’t see and have those two basic thing and view. Then you will struggle and meet the wall. Soon or later. Because you think it is only down to you or only down to one person. Blame on one person. And with a leader with a view like this. How can you expect your company to succeed.
And the person to evaluate Ole decisions. Woodward, who has lesser football knowledge than Ole or minimal. How can Woodward evaluate Ole.
And the one who will evaluate Woodward. If it is the owner. The owner with minimal football knowledge too. How correctly can they evaluate Woodward?
When the roots of main problem is wrong and don’t know much about football. Even you fix the top of the problem, but not the root. The top/problem will appear and grow up again. Ask yourself what will happen, when you cut the top of the grass. Will it stop growing and keep growing. And reason why it keep growing.
Football and like others things, business or whatever. Are part of life. And special where many parts, factors and units take part and merging into a bigger unit. If one or two factors, units and reasons are in big trouble. It will naturally affect the full packet/the collective. And a collective is more WE than I. Alone we are all are nothing.

So if Ole got back and give time for another summer spending. If he is repeating the same decisions. If i am the owner. I would give peoples another chance. If he keeps repeating same decision. Then he is definitely not the one to lead one of the biggest club in football. Beside good part of luck, experience, will and skill. Right perspective and is been able to look at a bigger picture. A big factor to succeed. Look at the bigger picture and solve your biggest and have to fix problem first.
Same if your house is burning. You do the most important thing first. Save life and forget property. Two clearly basic thing in life.
 

Rhyme Animal

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Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
Ole, he is lacking two basic and logical thing.

1.
Solve your team biggest problem. Fix where you have to fix first. Like your car. You drive from distance A to B. Your car get problems and it stop. You found out the main reason why the car. And still there are few others problems. Like poor old wheels, but it is still running. So you got fixed the main problem and still driving with the poor wheels to your destination B. Then you bought new wheels at des.B

It is in all situations.If you want a car or something collective to keep perform, to your highest expectations. If it is a big problem and lesser small and lesser important problems. You have to fix your biggest problem first.
A Football team is like car. Consist of many units. Like wheels, engine, brake, fuel/battery and others units.
In United case. United had good enough CB to get into top 4 in Smalling, Jones, Bailly, Lindelof, Tuanzebe and Rojo.
Compare to United CM and RW options.
CM options : Pogba. Big big talent, but a mood player. Compare to Liverpool more consistent mood player in Milner and Henderson. McTom, Matic, Fred and Perreira.
RW: Mata, Greenwood, Chong and James

So for this 3 positions. The analyzing of the qualities of this 3 pos. CB, CM and RW. RW is clearly the weakest position. Second the CM and 3 and last the CB pos. Then Ole prior to fix the lesser important problem first. With a world record for a CB. No new RW and CM. This is the main and true fact, why the car United is inconsistent and is not able to fight and drive in to the top 4 pos. And it is down to the decisions of the manager. The driver of the car/United.
United and Ole is driving on a unsteady car, on the road and path of top 4. Not to mention the road of the champion.

2.second basic thing. This is about to have a view of a bigger picture. Example. Ole didn’t found Lukaku good enough or Lukaku didn’t suit his football style and philosophy. To truly rate a football player good enough. You have to look at a bigger picture. Then one of the biggest factor behind a player and team success. Is the qualities of his teammates. The qualities of the service and support. Then i will still use the car example. Even your car have a really strong and good engine HK. Your car still need top quality wheels and others factors. Together, supporting each others and merging into a unit calling car and a team.


So if Ole got back and give time for another summer spending. If he is repeating the same decisions. If i am the owner. I would give peoples another chance. If he keeps repeating same decision. Then he is definitely not the one to lead one of the biggest club in football. Beside good part of luck, experience, will and skill. Right perspective and is been able to look at a bigger picture. A big factor to succeed. Look at the bigger picture and solve your biggest and have to fix problem first.
Same if your house is burning. You do the most important thing first. Save life and forget property. Two clearly basic thing in life.
Wow... you've taken the 'Ole at the Wheel' stuff to a new level!

But seriously, I agree with your points and good post.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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gerrard is a legend for slipping, the spitter was an over rated tool, but Rush gave them 15 yrs of service, scored a goal more less every 1 and a bit games (660 games, 346 goals) won 5 league tiles, 3 fa cups and 2 euro/cl cups so yet thats a legend.
Won the UCL, domestic cups and was their captain marvel for a decade. He's a legend as much as I hate the bloke.
 

Robbie Boy

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Ole is a legend, I mean of course he is. I have such great memories of our team back then when all the feckers were so likeable. I look back on Ole's reign with us as a player with nothing but fondness. I remember in that 06/07 season it was amazing having him back playing regularly and he was quite good too that season.
 

Nicoseth

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The Poch talk seems to be gathering pace. Usually some smoke to go with that fire. I hope Ole finishes the season strong and then let's see where we are. I think if he gets CL football he should stay on for sure. I can see the argument against keeping him if he fails to get that especially with Poch being available.
 

mu4c_20le

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Ole, he is lacking two basic and logical thing.

1.
Solve your team biggest problem. Fix where you have to fix first. Like your car. You drive from distance A to B. Your car get problems and it stop. You found out the main reason why the car. And still there are few others problems. Like poor old wheels, but it is still running. So you got fixed the main problem and still driving with the poor wheels to your destination B. Then you bought new wheels at des.B

It is in all situations.If you want a car or something collective to keep perform, to your highest expectations. If it is a big problem and lesser small and lesser important problems. You have to fix your biggest problem first.
A Football team is like car. Consist of many units. Like wheels, engine, brake, fuel/battery and others units.
In United case. United had good enough CB to get into top 4 in Smalling, Jones, Bailly, Lindelof, Tuanzebe and Rojo.
Not sure where you are going with the analogy but imma stop you right here. "United had good enough CB to get into top 4" umm... no, that's major hindsight. Go back in time a few months and you'd be laughed at for sticking with the chuckle brothers. CB was definitely a bigger priority than midfield or forward. It's easy to criticize him now, but at the time it was a popular move and the majority of the caf agreed with the Maguire signing. So to go back to your analogy, maybe the car had more than one problem. Maybe he noticed something was leaking badly when we lost 4-0 to Everton, and that we had to patch up our leaky defence before anything else.

tldr - Go ask anyone last summer if they were okay with that CB list, their answer would most likely be a NO
 

Mainoldo

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Ole is a legend, I mean of course he is. I have such great memories of our team back then when all the feckers were so likeable. I look back on Ole's reign with us as a player with nothing but fondness. I remember in that 06/07 season it was amazing having him back playing regularly and he was quite good too that season.
Explain regularly to me?
 

Robbie Boy

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Explain regularly to me?
Regularly compared to the seasons he didn't play. Not relevant really you can easily Google it. I can't wait to see the back of him as a manager which I've made quite clear but it won't change my feelings on him as a player.
 

Robbie Boy

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The Poch talk seems to be gathering pace. Usually some smoke to go with that fire. I hope Ole finishes the season strong and then let's see where we are. I think if he gets CL football he should stay on for sure. I can see the argument against keeping him if he fails to get that especially with Poch being available.
The Poch talk reminds me of the Jose talk when LvG was here.
 
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I would say pump the brakes a little bit on the Ancelotti praise. As United fans we of all people should know what a manager does in his first few months is not necessarily indicative of any long term success.
You're talking like he's an Ole-esque novice rather than a 3 time Champions League winning manager, league winner in Italy, England, France and Germany, 2 time Serie A coach of the Year & 1 time European Coach of the Year.
 

BusbyMalone

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You're talking like he's an Ole-esque novice rather than a 3 time Champions League winning manager, league winner in Italy, England, France and Germany, 2 time Serie A coach of the Year & 1 time European Coach of the Year.
I'm not talking like he's anything. I'm merely pointing out that singing the praises of him as some sort of retort to anyone who thinks Ole should be given more time is not necessarily the wisest thing to do. Before Ancelotti it was Lampard, and before Lampard it was Emery, and so on. Point being, using a managers short term success as some sort of counter to anyone who wants Ole to stay can look a little foolish in hindsight. We've been there ourselves with Ole. His short term success was pretty phenomenal. Alas, like some of those mentioned above, it didn't last.

I was in no way suggesting that Ancelotti is somehow comparable to Ole as a manager. It obviously goes without saying that Ancelotti is better. Clearly.
 

Phil Osophy

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Not sure where you are going with the analogy but imma stop you right here. "United had good enough CB to get into top 4" umm... no, that's major hindsight. Go back in time a few months and you'd be laughed at for sticking with the chuckle brothers. CB was definitely a bigger priority than midfield or forward. It's easy to criticize him now, but at the time it was a popular move and the majority of the caf agreed with the Maguire signing. So to go back to your analogy, maybe the car had more than one problem. Maybe he noticed something was leaking badly when we lost 4-0 to Everton, and that we had to patch up our leaky defence before anything else.

tldr - Go ask anyone last summer if they were okay with that CB list, their answer would most likely be a NO
I checked my Christmas list from April and that's the first I wanted. Except the RW the rest is not far away, so in my case I can't criticize the calls from the manager.

I don't know about the names but the profiles are clear to me. If someone can identify alternatives with these attributes then it's perfect.

-A centerback with leadership and commanding skills, with half decent ball playing abilities at least. But the first thing is vital.

-A complete rightback who can defend, start the play from the back without panicking and also deliver a decent final ball.

-A ball playing midfielder in the mould of Pjanic, Thiago with good positioning that can give us control and stability during games, and can be a second source of creativity coming from behind and giving a key pass to the forwards eventually, especially when Pogba is tightly marked.

-A F***ing right winger for once please.

-And finally an experienced striker to replace Lukaku who can release some pressure from Rashford for the coming season and probably the next one too. Someone who can press, hold and play the ball without looking drunk, and make runs to attack the space. Cavani maybe? (PSG open to sell apparently).

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/solskjaer-target-5-signings-6-players-could-leave-bbc-telegraph-guardian.446294/page-16#post-23955459

I also remarked the lack of leadership in my following post in that thread, something that wasn't being addressed and now we've got Maguire (Leiceister captain), Bruno (Sporting captain) and we're linked with Grealish (Villa captain). Just my opinion, of course, but to me these guys are showing common sense with their calls.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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The Poch talk seems to be gathering pace. Usually some smoke to go with that fire. I hope Ole finishes the season strong and then let's see where we are. I think if he gets CL football he should stay on for sure. I can see the argument against keeping him if he fails to get that especially with Poch being available.

If Ole gets CL football, it would mean a huge upswing in results from now until May with a depleted squad so yeah, if he was able to do that I'd rethink my stance. He isn't winning the Europa League, not in a million years for me, so it'd mean sustained league form which would be impressive given the pressure and circumstances. I would bet anything on that NOT happening, though - we're finishing around 8-10th.
 

Gasolin

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If Ole gets CL football, it would mean a huge upswing in results from now until May with a depleted squad so yeah, if he was able to do that I'd rethink my stance. He isn't winning the Europa League, not in a million years for me, so it'd mean sustained league form which would be impressive given the pressure and circumstances. I would bet anything on that NOT happening, though - we're finishing around 8-10th.
Pogba is back around March, Scott will be back mid Feb, if Igdaho does his job, I am not sure why we would not be able to go on for a streak.
 

Gasolin

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You believe that, do you?
I don't.
I do, I see too much of the work out to just be for nothing. He's trying really hard now. Yeah, someone must have told him about the perception but I believe Pogba will play for us again, and play a role in the last games of the season. If that translates into more points for us, let it be.
 

pratyush_utd

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Poch talk is exactly like how it was with Mourinho. I believe it will happen. Maybe we even have an understanding with Ole on this, kind of like, if we miss out on top 4 and dont get into UCL next season (meaning not winning Europa), he will agree to step down. I hope Ed has learned his lesson after sacking LVG unceremoniously.
 

Gasolin

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Poch talk is exactly like how it was with Mourinho. I believe it will happen. Maybe we even have an understanding with Ole on this, kind of like, if we miss out on top 4 and dont get into UCL next season (meaning not winning Europa), he will agree to step down. I hope Ed has learned his lesson after sacking LVG unceremoniously.
What if Ed is the one who is going to step down, and Ole stays?
 
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wolvored

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I do, I see too much of the work out to just be for nothing. He's trying really hard now. Yeah, someone must have told him about the perception but I believe Pogba will play for us again, and play a role in the last games of the season. If that translates into more points for us, let it be.
Pogba will return end of March/beginning of April. He will meander around the pitch and just do enough to get him fit just in time for the Euros.
 

hobbers

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Pogba will return end of March/beginning of April. He will meander around the pitch and just do enough to get him fit just in time for the Euros.
He'll probably wait until top 4 qualification is gone and then put in a couple of 10/10 performances. Disappear off to the Euros and then as soon as they're finished spend the rest of the summer engineering his move.
 

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More and more leaks about the club and other managers are being publicised. The recent interview from Fred talking about the team, Solskjaer is a dead man walking managerially. I do think however he deserves to stay if we finish in top four, I said that at the start of the season and will maintain it until the end.
 

esmufc07

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I'm far from Ole's biggest fan, and I don't know anything about the case - but it's innocent until proven guilty surely?

Why should this guy's (or anyone's) career be killed off before they've even been proved to've done anything?

Footballers have a very short career as it is.
Any other career you would be suspended from work pending the outcome.
 

mu4c_20le

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Neil Ashton should take notes. This is how you create sympathy for someone under fire.
 

McSauce FC

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"Woman at centre of Norway rape case" is certainly the best person to decide who is fit to lead Manchester United.
 

Gasolin

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"Woman at centre of Norway rape case" is certainly the best person to decide who is fit to lead Manchester United.
Especially when the whole thing was about the club telling Ole the player should be eligible for games.
If it's an important player, it automatically means that he needs to be selected to win games.
 

el3mel

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feck that. Just sack Ashton and move Ole to Woodward's PR advisor!

Ole's clearly quite talented at that part of the game - and I'm not even being sarcastic!
Well you can't say otherwise. He has succeeded in convincing a good portion of our fans that we're progressing despite everything pointing elsewhere.
 

TRUERED89

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No idea where to post this BUT, Man City have been banned from all UEFA competitions for the next 2 seasons and fined £24.9m for serious breach of FFP :lol::lol:.

Pep’s PL’s should be stripped too while they’re at it!!
 

Gasolin

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No idea where to post this BUT, Man City have been banned from all UEFA competitions for the next 2 seasons and fined £24.9m for serious breach of FFP :lol::lol:.

Pep’s PL’s should be stripped too while they’re at it!!
There's a thread with it. And they can still appeal so not finished.