Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2020/21 Discussion

Matriac

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That is the job of the club not me. As a fan of the biggest club in the world, I expect winning major trophies and not being happy celebrating "two successive top 4 finish". Their are zero pressure on the manager to win the league or the CL which is strange for a club as big as ours.
Nobody is celebrating two successive top 4 placements. We are simply calling it progress from before.

And with some semblance of reality in me I feel that in our current state there is no (available) managers who could do a better job than Ole. Unless he proves otherwise he deserves the chance to build on continued progress.

I don't demand for the club to find an imaginary person. If I want a manager-change I will have a good idea of who I would want to replace them.
 

He'sRaldo

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I want to hold Ole's supporters accountable for the expectation, most of them will not give you a direct answer. they will try to hide their goals for next season, some of them will lower their expectation (like they did at the begining at the season) to make a top 4 finish as a major trophy.

Is it not realistic to win the league next season? If not what is?
The league next season is definitely a realistic expectation. I was disappointed we didn't win it this season, but it's more understandable to miss out this season than if we do next season.
 

Ole's screen

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Apart from Sir Alex. We have also been ruthless.
Big Ron sacked after winning the FA cup twice and 5 consecutive top 4 finishes. LVG right after winning the FA cup. Jose after finishing second and winning two titles. DM after only few months as a manager. I dont think Real Madrid fans are losing sleep after sacking the managers and winning 14 CL.
Yet all our league wins have come under only 3 managers, each of whom took 5+ years to win their first one.

I do not know about the sentiment around big Ron but this is chalk and cheese compared to any of our post SAF managers.
The FA cup win under LvG was fun, but it never hid from the fact that the season had been horrible, and fans were really not enjoying the games. The football was soul sucking, although we were bringing through some promising youngsters and the team was somewhat starting to click. However he didn't get CL football which seems to be the deadman's switch at United. Of all the sackings I've seen at the club, his was probably the harshest. I think a better run club would have taken the basics LvG put into place and would have brought in someone to enhance that style of football. Someone like a Pep or a Poch. I was devasted by the reports that we had Jose lined up and I hoped they weren't true but alas they were.

So we got Jose who ripped out everything LvG was doing was he wanted to be the anti-possession guy and everyone here bought it cos we were so sick of LvG's possession porn and we were good at spells. However the EL run under Jose was also so turgid. Fighting against the might of Celta Vigo and Anderlecht by hoofing it up to Fellaini and trying to eke out 1 goal wins. But even so Jose got another year - even after finishing 6th - that is how patient United are. Madrid or Chelsea would have fired him then and there.

Compare that to now. The team is competitive with the best teams in the world. Plays quite attractive football, scores for fun. Whether or not we win a final doesn't take away from the joy and enthusiasm I've had in the months preceding that. Our EL run this year has been fun and entertaining. At the end of that thats more important to me as a fan. I would take this over that FA cup win or that EL win any day.
 
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Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær

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I want to hold Ole's supporters accountable for the expectation, most of them will not give you a direct answer. they will try to hide their goals for next season, some of them will lower their expectation (like they did at the begining at the season) to make a top 4 finish as a major trophy.

Is it not realistic to win the league next season? If not what is?
Winning it might be a stretch but pushing for it and being top for more than a few days is expected now.

Getting through the CL group stages is also a must. After that it's a crap shoot but I'd like to see us in the semi's at least.
 

Zen86

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Managers do and should rely on their best players, not discounting that. However any manager worth his salt should also not be rely one player to have his team play cohesive football and get results against poor outfits. Take Fernandes out of this side and I'm not sure you'll see the massive improvement people think they're seeing in our general performances.
Bruno is a key player, he’s one of very few if not the only genuinely top level creative player we have. Our squad is thin in this department, this is not exactly news. I don’t really see how that should detract from him as a manager, nor do I see why him getting such a high level of performance In the first place should either.
 

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Apart from Sir Alex. We have also been ruthless.
Big Ron sacked after winning the FA cup twice and 5 consecutive top 4 finishes. LVG right after winning the FA cup. Jose after finishing second and winning two titles. DM after only few months as a manager. I dont think Real Madrid fans are losing sleep after sacking the managers and winning 14 CL.
Well exactly, none of those guys were fired purely for not winning the PL or CL.

That's a ridiculously harsh target.
 

peridigm

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His contract runs out at the end of the next season. If he by that time not won the PL or the CL then he should go regardless of the place we finish in the league. Rebuild bs can not go on for a decade.
He will get a new deal at the end of this season.
 

Giggsyking

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Reread what you've written.

And genuinely what were the odds of us actually being in a title challenge or CL final at the start of the season? If you really think we should sack our manager for not achieving which was at 100/1 or so odds, guess you'd never be satisfied
What I have written is no personal comments on what you think. I wonder what you do in real life when you disagree with somebody in a discussion, do you start making sarcastic personal comments and bully them?
Despite the fact me not thinking he is a top manager (personal opinion), I said in other threads it is fair enough for him to get another season (when the likes of LVG and Jose) got enough time to be judged. But at some point he should deliver the big trophies and should be held accountable. In the 80's it would be acceptabel to wait 5-6 years to win the league, but now he is managing the second highest spending club in the world in the last 5 years. No excuses. IMO he will not win the league based entirely on the type of football we play. Our football is mostly grab and run but we are not a dominant side. Games like Brighton, West Ham, Aston Villa, etc. We won with being very lucky, underserved wins. My post today was about his contract situation, what happens at the end of the next season!
 

Alex99

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our realstic goal for this season I said to fight for the title (which we didnt) or at least reach the CL final (we didnt).
Has realistic become one of those words like 'literally where it now means what it means, and also the opposite of what it means?
 

Leftback99

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I want to hold Ole's supporters accountable for the expectation, most of them will not give you a direct answer. they will try to hide their goals for next season, some of them will lower their expectation (like they did at the begining at the season) to make a top 4 finish as a major trophy.

Is it not realistic to win the league next season? If not what is?
What do you class as realistic? Possible yes, likely, no.

Put any available manager in charge of us, City will still be clear favourites ahead of the rest and will no doubt invest more than us in the summer. Me 'expecting' any better won't change a thing.
 

Giggsyking

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Yet all our league wins have come under only 3 managers, each of whom took 5+ years to win their first one.

I do not know about the sentiment around big Ron but this is chalk and cheese compared to any of our post SAF managers.
The FA cup win under LvG was fun, but it never hid from the fact that the season had been horrible, and fans were really not enjoying the games. The football was soul sucking, although we were bringing through some promising youngsters and the team was somewhat starting to click. However he didn't get CL football which seems to be the deadman's switch at United. Of all the sackings I've seen at the club, his was probably the harshest. I think a better run club would have taken the basics LvG put into place and would have brought in someone to enhance that style of football. Someone like a Pep or a Poch. I was devasted by the reports that we had Jose lined up and I hoped they weren't true but alas they were.

So we got Jose who ripped out everything LvG was doing was he wanted to be the anti-possession guy and everyone here bought it cos we were so sick of LvG's possession porn and we were good at spells. However the EL run under Jose was also so turgid. Fighting against the might of Celta Vigo and Anderlecht by hoofing it up to Fellaini and trying to eke out 1 goal wins. But even so Jose got another year - even after finishing 6th - that is how patient United are. Madrid or Chelsea would have fired him then and there.

Compare that to now. The team is competitive with the best teams in the world. Plays quite attractive football, scores for fun. Whether or not we win a final doesn't take away from the joy and enthusiasm I've had in the months preceding that. Our EL run this year has been fun and entertaining. At the end of that thats more important to me as a fan. I would take this over that FA cup win or that EL win any day.
I am never going to judge Ole on that trophy. The bar should be the PL or the CL.
Do you think it is realistic to set the PL title as a goal next season or not? a CL final?
 

Giggsyking

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What do you class as realistic? Possible yes, likely, no.

Put any available manager in charge of us, City will still be clear favourites ahead of the rest and will no doubt invest more than us in the summer. Me 'expecting' any better won't change a thing.
If not winning it, then at least give them a fight (like Liverpool two years ago). Since Sir Alex retired 3 other clubs won the league other than City. We can not sit here and moan about them while other clubs did win the league at the same time as city being biggest spenders.
 

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You think fighting for the the league after being manager for 3 years or reaching the CL final with the second highest spending club in the world is funny? OK
I don't base my expectations purely on time, I do have a knack of including context into it too. And not that it matters but he hasn't been managing us for 3 years yet.

Also, I guess Sir Alex not winning the league or reaching CL final for 3 years would have had you asking for his sacking, right?
 

Giggsyking

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Well exactly, none of those guys were fired purely for not winning the PL or CL.

That's a ridiculously harsh target.
So if we jsut keep finishing top 4 in the next 4 years without winning anything important. He deserves to keep his job in your opinion? I am just curious.
 

Matriac

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I am never going to judge Ole on that trophy. The bar should be the PL or the CL.
Do you think it is realistic to set the PL title as a goal next season or not? a CL final?
A cup final (no matter what cup) is desirable, but in no sense the absolute minimum as it can be decided by somewhat random happenings.

Realistically challenging for league title is a much better way to evaluate a manager over time as it should over a full season eliminate freak results in both positive and negative sense.
 

Giggsyking

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I don't base my expectations purely on time, I do have a knack of including context into it too. And not that it matters but he hasn't been managing us for 3 years yet.

Also, I guess Sir Alex not winning the league or reaching CL final for 3 years would have had you asking for his sacking, right?
No.
 

Crashoutcassius

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Ole needs to win the Treble with Smalling in defense, Lingard and Pereira in mid as well as players that don't want to play for the club. That is what great managers have done.

What world class players did SAF ever had? Mourinho? Pep has always elevated mediocre players to WC ones, just look at his time at Barca. Who now remembers names like Xavi or Iniesta or Messi or Busquets.

Point I'm trying to make is that to judge a manager based on the players that he has is wrong. Being a manager is being magic. Patterns of play. Carl Anka.

Sorry for the long rant but I really get annoyed by the idea that player quality is relevant to team success.
Some guy posted on twitter 'mad that if it wasn't for David de gea ole would be out of the cup' haha the idea that keepers aren't allowed be keepers is in a similar vein
 

Leftback99

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If not winning it, then at least give them a fight (like Liverpool two years ago). Since Sir Alex retired 3 other clubs won the league other than City. We can not sit here and moan about them while other clubs did win the league at the same time as city being biggest spenders.
I'll judge what to expect after the transfer window. The squad is nowhere near strong enough at this point.
 

Giggsyking

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That's more realistic and a better position for you to have for next season.

Same for making the CL final. A big ask. Is it possible, yes, but cup competitions alwyas retain an element of surprise and as such a semi-final spot should be seen as a realistic goal.
Finals can be very susceptible for element of surprise and understandable if a better team do not win it. But semis and earlier stages are different when you have two matches to implement your plan if nothing extraordinary happens.
 

RedTiger

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Yet all our league wins have come under only 3 managers, each of whom took 5+ years to win their first one.

I do not know about the sentiment around big Ron but this is chalk and cheese compared to any of our post SAF managers.
The FA cup win under LvG was fun, but it never hid from the fact that the season had been horrible, and fans were really not enjoying the games. The football was soul sucking, although we were bringing through some promising youngsters and the team was somewhat starting to click. However he didn't get CL football which seems to be the deadman's switch at United. Of all the sackings I've seen at the club, his was probably the harshest. I think a better run club would have taken the basics LvG put into place and would have brought in someone to enhance that style of football. Someone like a Pep or a Poch. I was devasted by the reports that we had Jose lined up and I hoped they weren't true but alas they were.

So we got Jose who ripped out everything LvG was doing was he wanted to be the anti-possession guy and everyone here bought it cos we were so sick of LvG's possession porn and we were good at spells. However the EL run under Jose was also so turgid. Fighting against the might of Celta Vigo and Anderlecht by hoofing it up to Fellaini and trying to eke out 1 goal wins. But even so Jose got another year - even after finishing 6th - that is how patient United are. Madrid or Chelsea would have fired him then and there.

Compare that to now. The team is competitive with the best teams in the world. Plays quite attractive football, scores for fun. Whether or not we win a final doesn't take away from the joy and enthusiasm I've had in the months preceding that. Our EL run this year has been fun and entertaining. At the end of that thats more important to me as a fan. I would take this over that FA cup win or that EL win any day.
Hear hear.
 

Withnail

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So if we jsut keep finishing top 4 in the next 4 years without winning anything important. He deserves to keep his job in your opinion? I am just curious.
No obviously not. It's a massive leap from don't sack him now to assuming I'd be happy with just getting top 4.

However, we are seeing a year on year improvement. The team are getting better and enjoy playing for the manager. We should easily finish in the top 4 this season and that would be the first time we've done that back to back in years.

To give him the sack in order to bring another manager purely for a change seems the wrong thing to do.

The expectation is that next season is an improvement on this season as well. If we're just treading water next year then a decision might have to be made but it all depends on the actual circumstances of what goes on over the season.

If we aren't actually bringing in players capable of winning the league due to a lack of funds released or have a crazy injury crisis then those things would have to be factored in.

I don't believe anything is as simple as you seem to be suggesting.
 

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How did Liverpool win the CL and PL with city doing the same thing? Sorry, not buying your excuses.
We want to build something sustainable for long-term. Leicester won the League, but that's not sustainable.

Look, we all want United to be back to the top. Challenging the League every season, winning trophies, just like the good old days under SAF. No one is satisfied with this "top 4" cup, at least not you and me.

But we need to be more realistic, whatnot with the parasites is still there sucking out the Club. At least with Ole, he meets the expectation of most of us so far. And you can see that with his conducts, he has his heart on United with long-term view. He's not SAF, Klopp, or Pep. But he deserves his chance for another few years. Unless you like on gambling with new managers.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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So if we jsut keep finishing top 4 in the next 4 years without winning anything important. He deserves to keep his job in your opinion? I am just curious.
Chelsea City Liverpool are all sides as strong or stronger than us and will seek to keep improving. So it's a possibility that we could go 4 years more without a major trophy. However it just seems too soon to be thinking like this because since Ole, came we have neither regressed or become stagnant and have been progressing
 

OmarUnited4ever

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Do you think it is realistic to set the PL title as a goal next season or not? a CL final?
I know this question is not addressed to me, but let me answer.

My answer is yes, next season i expect PL title win & CL Final from the Ole & the team, but i can also set a minimum target/goal for Ole, which are:

  • challenge for the league all the way till the end (34-36 weeks at least)
  • reach QF stage in CL
  • reach SF stage in FA Cup
if Ole is backed with right players next season, the above are minimums and any thing less than that is absolutely not acceptable.

By Jan 2022, the team must be in the hunt for the league, in knockout stages of CL, failing that should be a reason to fire, in March 2022, the same for the league and should be in QF CL and SF FA cup, failing that should be a reason to fire

Ole has has now managed the team for 2 full seasons and has shown excellent progress and the rebuild is going well ( i know this season didn't end yet but i'm confident we've secured 2nd in the league, and i'm confident in our chances winning EL against Villareal), so in Ole's 3rd season the targets must be set higher, that is the only way to go back to being a top team.
 

Dve

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I want to hold Ole's supporters accountable for the expectation, most of them will not give you a direct answer. they will try to hide their goals for next season, some of them will lower their expectation (like they did at the begining at the season) to make a top 4 finish as a major trophy.

Is it not realistic to win the league next season? If not what is?
No need to hold Ole´s supporters accountable for anything, they (we) are not in charge. But we should hold Ole himself accountable for the expectations, and what he promised, was that we would be title contenders in 3 years - i.e. next season. No one can promise to win the league, but this season, we are just where he himself said we would be. If we keep Pogba and Cavani, and add Sancho and Rice - and possibly a center half, there are no excuses.
 

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You think fighting for the the league after being manager for 3 years or reaching the CL final with the second highest spending club in the world is funny? OK
I do like the constant exaggeration of the length of his tenure from his detractors. He hasn't even been here 3 years now, let alone at the start of the season.

Strangely, a lot of the people doing it are the same who will claim Poch turned Spurs from a mid-table team into potential title challengers. Wildly exaggerating seems to be their thing.
 

Cast5

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I want to hold Ole's supporters accountable for the expectation, most of them will not give you a direct answer. they will try to hide their goals for next season, some of them will lower their expectation (like they did at the begining at the season) to make a top 4 finish as a major trophy.

Is it not realistic to win the league next season? If not what is?
Don’t cry next season then when people hold you accountable for the endless negativity you post.
 

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær

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Finals can be very susceptible for element of surprise and understandable if a better team do not win it. But semis and earlier stages are different when you have two matches to implement your plan if nothing extraordinary happens.
Yeah, I'm mostly on about the extraordinary part. You can;t plan for that and surprises/accidents happen.
 

Robbie Boy

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Yeah I'd absolutely agree with your view on how things will go around here either way and that a cup can be a stepping stone for a team, although not a major factor in a manager's contract renewal.
To be honest, I'm sold on him getting a new contract. I doubted some of this 'slow progress' stuff as fluff - but now I can see what people meant, and fair play to those people that could see what I couldn't!

This season, I really feel like we have made good, steady progress overall. I did have my doubts at times, but generally I was pretty happy. He achieved all of the 'progress goals' that I wanted to see and I'm sold on his project. It'll take time, and while I can genuinely see a title push next season, I certainly don't 'expect' us to win it. I'm loving life under Ole just now and a cup win would be fantastic - I mean, just seeing him lift a cup as our manager would be such a nice moment. I would hate if we ended up with more managerial upheaval next season, and I really want him to succeed here.

I had massive doubts especially circa Sept to Dec 2019. But since around Jan 2020, up until maybe early this year, I've been happy but never fully convinved by him, to be completely honest. Our run post-COVID last season was amazing, but the football felt very 'gung ho' and not sustainable. Since then, we play as a far more solid unit while still getting the best out of Bruno. His signings overall, have been good and hopefully we see some more youth integrated into squad roles next season. Things are going well and yeah, he's rather good at this managerial lark!
 
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Dve

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I am never going to judge Ole on that trophy. The bar should be the PL or the CL.
Do you think it is realistic to set the PL title as a goal next season or not? a CL final?
As a goal, yes. And that will also be the goal for Manchester City, Chelsea and Liverpool. While only one team can win the PL, you cannot seriously mean that 3 out of Klopp, Guardiola, Tuchel and Ole must be sacked at the end of next season.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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I like to use Klopps time at Liverpool as a solid example of progress. Going from 4th to 4th and a champions league final to 2nd and a champions league trophy to winning the pl.

Ole is in his second full season and this was when Klopp got 4th and a CL final. I'd say Ole getting 2nd and the EL trophy is also very solid. Klopp's third season had him 2nd, challenging for the league and winning the CL. So next season we should expect at least a title challenge (barring an injury crisis). Anything less is basically stagnancy or regression

I think whether or not the squad is good enough to challenge would be what would determine most people's expectations next season. But when I factor in the money we've spent so far since Ole came in and would likely spend this summer, we should have no excuse not to have a squad that should be at least challenging for the title
 

rotherham_red

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I like to use Klopps time at Liverpool as a solid example of progress. Going from 4th to 4th and a champions league final to 2nd and a champions league trophy to winning the pl.

Ole is in his second full season and this was when Klopp got 4th and a CL final. I'd say Ole getting 2nd and the EL trophy is also very solid. Klopp's third season had him 2nd, challenging for the league and winning the CL. So next season we should expect at least a title challenge (barring an injury crisis). Anything less is basically stagnancy or regression

I think whether or not the squad is good enough to challenge would be what would determine most people's expectations next season. But when I factor in the money we've spent so far since Ole came in and would likely spend this summer, we should have no excuse not to have a squad that should be at least challenging for the title
A big part of that Liverpool transformation was Klopp getting a world class CB, a world class GK and a world class DM in the space of 6 months. If Ole gets his wanted players then I will also be expecting a similar transformation from us.
 

theklr

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I know this question is not addressed to me, but let me answer.

My answer is yes, next season i expect PL title win & CL Final from the Ole & the team, but i can also set a minimum target/goal for Ole, which are:

  • challenge for the league all the way till the end (34-36 weeks at least)
  • reach QF stage in CL
  • reach SF stage in FA Cup
if Ole is backed with right players next season, the above are minimums and any thing less than that is absolutely not acceptable.

By Jan 2022, the team must be in the hunt for the league, in knockout stages of CL, failing that should be a reason to fire, in March 2022, the same for the league and should be in QF CL and SF FA cup, failing that should be a reason to fire

Ole has has now managed the team for 2 full seasons and has shown excellent progress and the rebuild is going well ( i know this season didn't end yet but i'm confident we've secured 2nd in the league, and i'm confident in our chances winning EL against Villareal), so in Ole's 3rd season the targets must be set higher, that is the only way to go back to being a top team.
100% this, except for the domestic cups. It would be a stain , but not any sackable offence.
 

Olecurls99

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I want to hold Ole's supporters accountable for the expectation, most of them will not give you a direct answer. they will try to hide their goals for next season, some of them will lower their expectation (like they did at the begining at the season) to make a top 4 finish as a major trophy.

Is it not realistic to win the league next season? If not what is?
If we get two players then we should challenge all the way next season. That's good enough for me along with a good run in the Champions league.

If we don't get 2 players then we can hardly be expected to overhaul City who have a better squad than us and who will probably strengthen themselves. We'll also be battling with Liverpool and Chelsea who should have their act together by that stage.

So a serious challenge if we get 1 or 2 top players. A top 4 finish if we don't.

Direct enough for you
 

Tarrou

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City have the best squad, the best manager and the biggest budget

It'd pretty harsh to make the title the expectation

We expect to improve, and we expect to challenge

If next season we improve again and challenge (but not win), we'd be mad to let him go