Good to see some old faces back again posting, which means we are not doing well.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Is this what we are doing now ? Trying to make it seem like Leicester squad quality is close to ours ?Yeah if he had to rebuild the club he would settle for Joe Allen, Iago Aspas and Joe Allen just to name a few
Luckily he came to a well built club with Ndidi, Vardy, Barnes, Maddison, pereira, most their CBs and Schmeichel already at the club before he arrived so he wouldnt need to 'rebuild' that club either.
When Rogers took over Leicester were 11th and 20 points behind us . Finished that season (From the end of Feb to May) in 9th. Then next season they finished in 5th position after selling their captain to us. And now they're currently in 3rd having the same amount of points as us. How were "well built" were they when in the two seasons before Rogers took over they finished in 12th and 9th position ?
Moyes was better before he joined us was my point or more proven than Ole.
He failed here though and deserved the sack,but who knows what he might have done with more time?
I believe he lives in Manchester. I assume some United fans live there or was Nick Hancock right all along?Thankfully the board are seeing the bigger picture. Progress with a young group of players is not worth throwing away.
God help us if the hysterics on here held sway. We'd be relegated in a couple of years.
Because United dont have good people buying them transfers and dictating how the club is run.
Leicester is on a whole different level in comparison, a great little player after a great little player bought for cheap and doing well from the off.
I dont disregard Brendan Rodgers ability to improve the performances of a team as he did at Liverpool and Leicester- yet if the club is poorly run he has had a bad history of buying the wrong players at a club.
United have no DOF and it consistently shows. A manager that comes here will have to do the work of both a DOF and a tactical manager. Ole is doing one good and the other an average to good level.
This forum cries out for depth and we sign good players for depth and then complain they aren't being used. This forum is forever calling out for shiny new toys and throwing out their old ones the second they break.
Telles was signed for depth and to give Shaw a kick up the rear end that he so desperately needed. It's worked.
Now we need a RB to give AWB some competition.
DVB, like Havertz and Thiago have all struggled in their first season. All big names signings for big clubs. Some players take time to adjust to the speed of the prem, so give DVB some time and he'll come good. DVB is more of a second striker anyway than a midfielder.
Let Ole do his job and see where we are at, at the end of the season. Even then I still expect and hope that Ole is here for the long term and not sacked. Would be madness to sack him
The forum want long term success, but also instant success and that just won't happen.
They were on a whole different level but yet they finished 12th and 9th the seasons before Rogers took over ? Even if they have a better recruitment system than us we have much better players than them and we should be performing much better than them. The manager's ability to improve the performance of the team their managing is their primary objective so it shouldn't be disregarded like it's a little role when it is the most important job.
I disagree with the bolded but that's already been discussed/argued ad nauseum so I won't get into it.
Did Martial not win players player of the year?I think Bruno has been better than Pogba but I don't think he's a level above him in terms of ability.
And I can't take anyone serious that thinks Martial and van de Beek are on the same level as Bruno.
Maybe someone needs to explain exactly what they mean by level.
I don’t think Martial and VDB look at Bruno and think he’s a level above them. IMHO
Yeah erm, no he's not @Bebestation
Once again, we put a transfer board in place rather than hire a DOF, after Mourinho's second season. It resulted in them vetoing incoming purchases such as William and Perisic, and outgoing transfers Martial and Pogba.
It also resulted in Mourinho losing his mind.
It also resulted in said transfer board green lighting the start of the fire sale, with Fellaini getting shipping whilst we didn't even have a manager in place.
I don't know what Solskjaer does in his spare time, but in the last year he was unlikely to be hanging out much outside him home and see a lot of fans.
Honestly, Bebe and his crew claimed Leicester had a much better squad than us last season, when they were ahead of us of course. Despite their previous league finishes showing that up as utter bollocks.
As soon as we flew past Leicester it was due to the amazing Ole signing of Bruno and proved just what a good squad Ole was building. Ole then added another 3 players this Summer and there has been no mention of Leicester having a better squad, until of course, Leicester caught up with us at the weekend and now.... it's all rushing back.
Unbelievable, he's either spent 300m as "DoF" to make us as good as fecking Leicester City who finished 9th before Ole took over United, or he's spent it wisely, which one is it ffs?
We know how Bebe works by now, West Ham could overtake us and we'd quickly discover Moyes took over a better side. Bebe and co. have even claimed Spurs are better, despite Jose looking likely to be the 2nd manager in 1.5 years (with excellent CV's) to get fired due to how utterly fecking terrible that squad is.
For what it's worth, I think we've spent the money rather wisely and that our squad is miles better than Leicester's.
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Was also a good system when it got AWB, James, Maguire and Bruno (4 months later) now it’s been spearheaded by Ole and only him apparently.
Pogba at his best is better than Bruno, but Bruno is very consistent and easily better for us that Pogba. Without Bruno we would be where Arsenal is. Without Pogba we will still be around where we are.Can’t take anyone serious that thinks Bruno is a level above Paul Pogba
This fanbase.
Can't wait for this team to find their mojo again, so the usual suspects can go back into hibernation for a couple of months.
Cracking group of players, (at times) the most entertaining team in the league, and a young core that will only get better. A rough patch at the moment, but some of the players on a bad run (Martial, Rashford, to some extent Greenwood) will start firing again, and we'll once again be delighted with the fluid, exciting style of play and identity.
I still believe we'll win a trophy and finish 2nd/3rd, with a solid gap down to 5th. I'm happy with that this season, and it's a solid foundation for next season.
"We're Manchester United! We should contend for everything, all the time, even though it's been 7 years! How the standards have fallen. These fans. S m h."
Cracking group of players, (at times) the most entertaining team in the league, and a young core that will only get better. A rough patch at the moment, but some of the players on a bad run (Martial, Rashford, to some extent Greenwood) will start firing again, and we'll once again be delighted with the fluid, exciting style of play and identity.
I still believe we'll win a trophy and finish 2nd/3rd, with a solid gap down to 5th. I'm happy with that this season, and it's a solid foundation for next season.
"We're Manchester United! We should contend for everything, all the time, even though it's been 7 years! How the standards have fallen. These fans. S m h."
Shouting (ALL CAPS)
We have LITERALLY been worse with better managers.
A lot of those players had their contracts coming to an end and it would always be easy to get rid. Pereira got a new deal under ole and so did phil jones so mistakes have been made. The only one I can credit really is sanchez, but how much was that on ole?
Smalling was moved on and 80 million was spent on maguire who really isn't that much better than Chris.
Chong got a new deal and I think we should we have held on to dalot or at least loaned him to a premier league side.
hmmmm
Moyes/Giggs: 64 points
LVG: 70 points
LVG: 66 points (FA Cup winners)
Mourinho: 69 points (League Cup and EL winners)
Mourinho: 81 points
Mourinho/Solksjaer: 66 points
Solksjaer: 66 points
Solksjaer: tbc....
Once again, let's actually wait and see before making such bold claims.
Ah, the good old "points without context"-argument.
I disagree. It’s mentioned a lot but not factual. We are where we are because of Pogba and Bruno. It’s only been a month where we had Bruno but no Pogba. But when we have had Pogba and not Bruno we finished 6th(I believe) with two trophies and second on 81 points.
There is no evidence to say if Pogba didn’t return after lockdown we would have finished 3rd. He helped out a lot in that period with goals and assisting the play. His first contribution helping us get a point against Spurs. They both contributed with an assist and goal.
I think it’s a nice to have for those who don’t rate Pogba to say without Bruno we would he here or there. But the reason we was having a poor season was because Pogba spent the majority of it injured.
Maybe you just need to realise your statement has zero facts.
But bring the ‘opinionated’ context.
... which statement have I made?
No it's the wait until the end of the fecking season argument that none of you seem remotely capable of.
A poster's opinion has feck all context, points and trophies at least have some context.
If we go 66, 66, 68 points with no trophies... no, we literally haven't been in a worse place since Fergie, however you wanna paint it. So let's hope it's a blip, and we're not.
We literally have.
Moyes/Giggs = 64points.A different lineup without context for you:
Moyes/Giggs: 7th
LVG: 4th
LVG: 5th
Mourinho: 6th
Mourinho: 2nd
Mourinho/Solksjaer: 6th
Solskjær: 3rd
Solskjær: tbc...
In this context, Solskjær led us to our second best league finish since Fergie. Both your list and mine are 100% factual, but paint two very different pictures. Context obviously matters.
Was Moyes a better manager?We literally have.
If you mean by "worse place", well, absolutely, we've never gone 3 seasons in a row with such a pathetic points total, I'm not fooling myself into thinking that'll have us in a good place, but by all means, if you want to, go for it.
All I'm asking is people not to make daft sweeping statements until the season is fecking over.
As hysterical as the 'Ole out' are, the 'Ole in' are equally as hysterical and use the same mehod of selective stats to suit to their agenda. Tedious stuff indeed.
More context was that he ended up on the same points as Chelsea in fouth, and that he ended up with the same points total as that which got LVG fired, after an FA. Cup win.
We know there's a shit load more context to everything, that's why we wait before making such generalised statements. Do you not agree?
What the feck does this even mean? Should we continue to hire lesser managers because supposed good managers failed here?
“We have LITERALLY been worse with better managers.”... which statement have I made?
We literally have been better with better managers too. Which was pointed out.
But under LvG and Jose, our squad was bought and had literally no future... nothing for us to cling to.
Have you witnessed the young players Ole has bought and is having developed since he came in?
Honestly; wanna know how good Ole is, watch the U-23s...with Ole, it's all about where we're heading, not where we are.
With LvG and Jose it was always about where we were at any one time.
Daft question. I obviously don't think so.
But posters (not you, specifically) have stated that Moyes was a better manager based on his credentials before signing for us, which again brings context (of previous posts, leading up to this post) into the argument. Heck, Moyes won the LMA Manager of the year award three times, and had managed 518 games in the league before signing for us, so you can absolutely argue Moyes was a better manager.
I don't even think Van Gaal was a better manager by the time he signed for us. He has incredible credentials obviously, including winning the CL, Bundesliga, 3rd place in the WC, etc. But that really doesn't matter when you lose your touch. Both Van Gaal and Moyes were better managers than Ole at some point in their careers. That doesn't mean they were better than Ole for their entire stay at Man United, or even at the time of them signing for us, or are better than Ole is right now, or that Ole can't become as good as either/have surpassed one of them. Context.
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I think the crux of the issue with Ole right now is that he can't have more excuses for topsy turvy form. So he really needs to pull it out the bag again or risk falling out of the top 4 in a span of a few weeks.
Our tremendous run came from some near miss games, such as Sheffield United, Burnley, West Ham, Southampton. And in that mix was also very disappointing matches against the top 6 (pick any one of them). So in part the recent struggles shouldn't surprise anyone.
However for a manager who is in his 2nd full season (excluding the half season he had prior to know his squad), I think time is running out for him to build consistency at this stage. Not by results only, but by actual performances on the pitch. Our last good performance I'd say was the 3-3 v Everton and even that was a low barometer given the errors we made. We generally make too many swings between prolonged good form and bad form, and it's not really acceptable this long into the rebuild.
Our tremendous run came from some near miss games, such as Sheffield United, Burnley, West Ham, Southampton. And in that mix was also very disappointing matches against the top 6 (pick any one of them). So in part the recent struggles shouldn't surprise anyone.
However for a manager who is in his 2nd full season (excluding the half season he had prior to know his squad), I think time is running out for him to build consistency at this stage. Not by results only, but by actual performances on the pitch. Our last good performance I'd say was the 3-3 v Everton and even that was a low barometer given the errors we made. We generally make too many swings between prolonged good form and bad form, and it's not really acceptable this long into the rebuild.
Not true, Mainoldo. Not true at all.
Under LvG and Jose, our squad was bought and had literally no future... nothing for us to cling to. Their reigns were all about the immediate.
Have you witnessed the young players Ole has bought and is having developed since he came in?
Honestly; wanna know how good Ole is, watch the U-23s. With Ole, it's all about where we're heading, not where we are today.
With LvG and Jose it was always about where we were at any one time.
You mean this post? Please read it carefully, and you'll notice something is off.
Christ on a bike. We're not even a bad team, nor are we playing particularly badly. We're conceding stupid goals and making things hard for ourselves. It's been the case for a while and unsurprisingly, masking this by simply outscoring the opposition wasn't a sustainable tactic. No need for panic.
I swear - and I'm not making this up...
There are folk on here trying to argue we were in a better place under LvG or Mourinho than we are under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
Proof, if proof were ever needed, that folk on here aren't real supporters. They have no idea what's going on inside the club, other than to look at the result of the last game.
Our under-23s... driven by a resurgence and different plan under Ole, are on fire with some of the greatest teen talent in world football.
But United drew with WBA on Sunday, which only put them second in the league, so sack the manager... FFS. Facepalm.
There are folk on here trying to argue we were in a better place under LvG or Mourinho than we are under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
Proof, if proof were ever needed, that folk on here aren't real supporters. They have no idea what's going on inside the club, other than to look at the result of the last game.
Our under-23s... driven by a resurgence and different plan under Ole, are on fire with some of the greatest teen talent in world football.
But United drew with WBA on Sunday, which only put them second in the league, so sack the manager... FFS. Facepalm.
I don't think anyone is panicking. But I don't think anyone sensibly thinks we didn't play badly against West Ham, Sheffield United or West Brom. So in at least 3 of our last 4 games we've actually played pretty bad. We've been quite blunt in or attacks, ponderous on the ball and as you've already eluded to, careless in defence.
We're stuck in a pretty shit cycle with Ole. Go on a run of wins where good performances over 90 mins are at a premium, but the team shows some character and does enough to get through games won largely by fine margins.
Results then take a downward turn when quality of performances remain largely the same, but the individual brilliance of players such as Bruno, Pogba etc. are overwritten by defensive frailties and poor game management.
The only constants for me are largely indifferent performances where huge swathes of the game are marked by a distinct lack of ideas when we have possession, our back line and keeper's propensity to chuck in costly errors and the individual quality we have that chip in with vital attacking contributions. This amounts to, in my opinion, our teams ceiling being nothing more than top 4 year in year out under our current management.
Results then take a downward turn when quality of performances remain largely the same, but the individual brilliance of players such as Bruno, Pogba etc. are overwritten by defensive frailties and poor game management.
The only constants for me are largely indifferent performances where huge swathes of the game are marked by a distinct lack of ideas when we have possession, our back line and keeper's propensity to chuck in costly errors and the individual quality we have that chip in with vital attacking contributions. This amounts to, in my opinion, our teams ceiling being nothing more than top 4 year in year out under our current management.
The thing is, reading the last few pages both sides of the argument are so cocksure that they're right. The arrogance that they exude is quite something. I don't think I've seen one person go "you know what, that's actually a good point" Nah. I'm right and you're a fecking idiot is what's basically is going on. We've probably (definitely) all been there, to be fair, but it's amusing reading it.
We don’t have to sweep away the opposition every game, see Liverpool for an example of that. You do have to get the 3 points though.
Basic defensive errors have cost us against Sheffield United, Everton, and West Brom. That would have been 9 points otherwise. That’s a big issue. Our attack has off days sure, and we’ve got some pretty inconsistent performers up front, but attack hasn’t really been the issue lately. We still battered those teams, but our vulnerability at the back makes teams believe they can defend for their lives and snatch a cheap goal against us. And they can.
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