We pressed Chelsea high up the pitch yesterday, and did it well. We really weren't set up to (only) counter yesterday at all.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Did they really? One ziech shot saved. Mostly fanny foot long rangers scoooed up by DeGea unless I’m forgetting more. We also had clear chances we should have scored.
@11101 Have we struggled against the top teams since Ole's reign? We've acceptable/good records vs Spurs, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Leicester plus PSG, Leipzig in Europe... our issue was beating the smaller teams, and we've been doing that this season.
@Slysi17 You'd have started van de Beek, Martial and Bailly today?
- VDB has so far offered nothing when given chances, why should he expect to start a big game vs a strong, aggressive midfield?
- Martial is literally playing the worst football of his life and when given the chance he's not exactly busting a gut to make a difference.
- Bailly played on Thursday and his body breaks down whenever we try to play him too often.
Glad you're not our manager. Guessing you'd have started Amad too?
And do I think Ole could win the premier league? I think he's performing as well as any other manager could with the squad we have, and that his method is clearly capable because we're second in the league after 70% of games are played!
I mean, one manager has been there a wet day with literally none of his own players. The other has been there over 2 years. Perspective.
Nevertheless, Chelsea needed the win more than us and a draw was an ok result. Just have to make sure we beat Palace on Wednesday before the Etihad.
That's what i mean. We've realised counters don't work, but we can't do anything else properly. We pressed high up the pitch yesterday but did feck all with it. It's been that way against top teams this season and smaller teams are beginning to figure it out.
We are like Pep when he arrived at City. His passing carousel didn't work and he really struggled for a while as he had no plan b. A billion grubby dollars fixed that but we don't have the same luxury.
Explained further down the thread. We started with counter attacks and they worked, until they didn't. We look clueless when we attempt to do anything else.
Giroud should have got something on the header, plus the Ziyech chance. They brought on James, Pulisic and Werner...what are you talking about? I don't want to sit here defending Chelsea's manager, but let's be real here.
Tuchel, I’ll give some leeway and time as an excuse even though they were home yesterday, the team in better form and clearly needed the win more. but berating Ole and saying we need proper coaching in nils nils against Man City and Liverpool makes me laugh, are they not being properly coached to avoid nil nils and score goals? Especially against our drastically awfully defence of Maguire, lindelof and DeGea. None of it makes sense.It’s getting ridiculous now, this is surely the wrong game to bang on about how Chelsea have a proper manager and we don’t.
I thought the Giroud chance was the biggest of the game.
I’m not just on about Chelsea though, what’s peps and klopps excuse at only getting nil nil
Not too fussed about his 'top 6' record this season. We may be top scorers in the league but our forwards simply haven't got going this season. Top 6 games in the PL are most often decided on fine margins and that's where you need a 20+ goal forward. Just look at the CFs in title winning teams in the past decade (van Persie, Aguero, Vardy, Costa etc). They used to get limited service in the big games but made the most of the chances they got. You simply need clinical forwards if you want to compete with the best teams.
As long as we finish 2nd the rest of our top 6 games can also finish 0-0 for all I care. But in the summer we simply have to go out there and buy a proper centre forward. And a possession oriented DM. That's all I'm asking for Woody.
As long as we finish 2nd the rest of our top 6 games can also finish 0-0 for all I care. But in the summer we simply have to go out there and buy a proper centre forward. And a possession oriented DM. That's all I'm asking for Woody.
I’ll counter sign your request to Woody for that
It’s not me who needs to get real here ...
Hear hear.
I was gutted when Cavani was ruled out for the game yesterday. Him coming on instead of Martial I think would've made all the difference needed to win the game.
You could argue the Mctominay poor cross at the end was just as big of a chance as that.
Because it had to go through about 4 defenders probably not. But I personally wouldn’t argue against it.
It’s a shame that Ole didn’t play against a Tuchel team this season that wasn’t ’his team’... oh wait he did, and we smashed him away and we’re very very unlucky at home. Maybe Ole isn’t that bad after all?
Do you remember his midfield? Compare that to Pochettino’s midfield against Barca.
You might find your answer.
I don't know if you started watching football yesterday or something, but players rarely just get good. They need match practice, and they need to take games in order to get in form.
VdB has not been given that. Give him 5-6 games in a row, and if still gives nothing, then fair. But let's not pretend that he doesn't deserve a start when our other midfielders are not shining either.
I thought the convo was about yesterday's game - hard to keep up in here. Specifically speaking about yesterday's game; there's zero to criticise Tuchel on. If he plays like this against us at home next season, sure questions could be asked. I'm not convinced by him but let's judge him when he's had at least the summer window.
McTominays cross was nowhere near it's intended target though
No but with such an incredible coach like Tuchel it should be fine.
Yeah, true, I think you’re right.
We’ve only added VDB and Telles since yet people expect us to be able to change to a dominant attacking style of football on the back of that? People go on about Jose and how he’d be getting killed for the same shite but he had exactly the same problems with our owners. One or two 80/90 million pound players surrounded by pretty ordinary or ageing squad players and a mish mash of the previous managers failed transfer punts that the owners can’t move on because they give out bad contracts. If we don’t seriously invest in fresh talent and new ideas then how is the football going to magically improve. Ole has since gutted that squad and didn’t even get replacements let alone upgrades for all the places he’s freed up.
Hes fixing a moving car here each season because our lack of drive when it comes to improving the squad in the summer windows. he got every last drop out of the team (and owners investment) to get us 3rd last year and it’s the same this year to get us 2nd and they still won’t act with any risk or aggression. No manager is going to come in and do more with our owners the way they are set up. If we press reset and another manager comes in how long until he goes feck this shit the board are setting me up to fail here? Ole is the first manager we’ve had since Fergie who is actually a stabilising presence despite the board. Fergie used to have to grin and bare it all the time. Every manager since has thrown the toys out of the pram and created even more drama and instability.
We need to build slower because of the board. Look at Chelsea. Better manager supposedly. Way more recent investment. A more ambitious owner, DOF setup, great youth. Great patterns of play that we are supposedly missing and they looked just like us, trying to knick a result. They only ever look alright when I watch them. They are harder to beat now but they haven’t changed into some amazing attacking unit or anything. It’s the typical grass is always greener scenario. Ole should be given the money to shape the squad in his vision and see where we end up. The fact it’s taking so long is what’s really causing fans to lose their minds and that’s 90% on the board up to this point.
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Sorry I was replying to the posts critising our nil nils this year against the ‘top 6’ saying we need proper coaching yet those teams have also been involved in the nil nil, often with a better team and coach with more time. Where’s the questioning of their coaching, takes two to tango doesn’t it.
Re Tuchel I’m not convinced either but said as much about giving leeway and time in post above
An attacking wing back, a winger and a CF brought on. "Chelsea made negative subs blah, blah, blah". You need to pull your head out of your arse. Negative subs is Ole bringing on CBs when chasing the game, as he often does.
It wasn't a goalscoring chance because McTominay didn't get the ball into a position of chance. If he'd have put as good a ball in as Hudson Odoi, then it was a chance in the same sense.
It’s actually a travesty that without Cavani and Pogba on our bench (who themselves come with a lot of doubts and are not reliable due to different reasons - injuries (both), age (Cavani), attitude (Pogba)) we don’t have anyone else on the bench who could make a difference. Compare that to Chelsea’s and especially City’s bench and the difference is night and day.
Well questioning Tuchel after a wet day at a new team would be silly. Nothing wrong with either coach yesterday. We had the better of the first half and they had the better of the second. There were no real clear chances with Ziyech having the best of a bad bunch.
Certainly, avoiding defeat was huge for us given we go to the Etihad next week. Chelsea needed the points more than us and had Tuchel been in the job a year or two, then questions would have been asked of his approach.
As for criticising Pep and Klopp for some nil nils against us? I mean come on mate, really? I think fans of City and Liverpool may be slightly more forgiving of these nil alls when their managers are winning numerous trophies including PL's and CL's while setting records along the way. Until Ole wins something or elevates to playing football on that level, then yeah questions will be asked of him. You may not like it but he's not done near enough to be held as some sort of infallible manager. Next season is absolutely huge for him. His biggest fans on here all agree that this is when the excuses stop.
Brought on a defender for a forward at half time and brought on Werner very late. Doesn’t make the sub more offensive by calling him an attacking wingback. Not to mention he could have started with Werner. You should try to take a little break. If you can’t be even a little objective in your agenda against Ole then again and for the last time it’s not me who needs to get real.[
The point I’m making is not the opposition fans giving their managers leeway. It’s our fans saying we need proper coaching because we couldn’t score and only got a nil nil. Man City and Liverpool have better coaches with more time yet they didn’t score and came away with a nil nil too, no one here thinks that they need ‘proper’ coaching due to that.
you’re missing my point and I also don’t know why you keep going on about questioning Tuchel now would be silly, I’ve already said the same and agreed with you about that.
The point I’m making is not the opposition fans giving their managers leeway. It’s our fans saying we need proper coaching because we couldn’t score and only got a nil nil. Man City and Liverpool have better coaches with more time yet they didn’t score and came away with a nil nil too, no one here thinks that they need ‘proper’ coaching due to that.
Exactly. Or if it takes Pogba a half a season to get going or Martial doesn’t get going at all? These things can happen. Who else have we actually got to take them out for a while? Same thing with playing Pererira and lingard over and over and over. It’s not just for the hell of it. Our squad is still majorly lacking in quality and options compared to our rivals.
How much of that is how Ole sets us up/opposition changing how they face us (which still isn't working very well since they are getting wins either), and how much is caused by our attackers simply being in terrible form? If we had Martial and Greenwood playing like they did last season there's a good chance both our counter attacks and normal attacks would have been more successful. Would we really be sitting here saying we've only scored one goal in those matches in that case?
Most likely it's a bit of both. Opposition have made adjustments when they face us, but how much can Ole do to change things when all our attackers have been shit this season?
The point about Tuchel is just a general one dude. Glad you agree, would be crazy not to.
I've explained why they are given leeway. Fergie often struggled against some of the bigger sides away from home. Why do you think he was given 'leeway'? Klopp and Pep totally transformed Liverpool and City and made them winning machines. They won the league and CL between them. Of course they get leeway ffs. If Ole had us playing peak-Klopp football and won us a league and CL, do you think anyone would give a flying feck about a few nil alls against bigger sides?
I'm not one of the ones criticising those results but I can understand the posters that do tbh.
Totally agree. We lack real presence and smartness in the box in these games.
I have a player in mind that would fit perfectly and lives to score goals in big games, but it would take something special to win the battle for his signature this summer (+Ed needs to dig record deep)
He didn't start Werner because he started his other attackers in Giroud and Ziyech. This is simple logic. Why didn't Ole go more attacking and start Martial? Oh that's right, because he chose his other attacker instead. Jesus, what a stupid debate this is.
James is good going forward and CHO was injured. If you don't know enough about him or what actually happened then this is your issue. The funny thing is the criticism you're levelling at the opposition for 1 game are all things Ole does non stop
Late, late subs. Defenders when chasing a goal. Absolutely laughable!Sure, but the claim was we never did well against top teams under Ole, which is straight up false.
Jeez you make excuses for all other managers but Ole. Hey we also didn't have our first choice Striker in cavani yesterday and Pogba who you yourself in this thread said is as important as Bruno but I don't see Ole getting any benefit of doubt for that, but it is just when opponents have injuries you make sure to give benefit of doubt. At least be consistent with your points.
Ok dude we just see it differently, I’m not going to start swearing and saying ffs just because I disagree. They are supposedly top managers with top teams yet their coaching isn’t good enough to get a goal against us, just as our coaching is supposedly not good enough to get a goal against them. Silly isn’t it.
Massive mistake starting giroud against our slow high back line. Don’t know what he was thinking. Any decent coach would have used the pace of Werner from the start and then bring on giroud for the crosses when we sat deeper in the second half. He got it all arse backwards.He didn't start Werner because he started his other attackers in Giroud and Ziyech. This is simple logic. Why didn't Ole go more attacking and start Martial? Oh that's right, because he chose his other attacker instead. Jesus, what a stupid debate this is.
James is good going forward and CHO was injured. If you don't know enough about him or what actually happened then this is your issue. The funny thing is the criticism you're levelling at the opposition for 1 game are all things Ole does non stop
I think our results against teams outside the top 6 and position in the league shows that our attempt of 'anything else' does work.
Yesterday was not a case of 'sit back, soak up pressure and hope to hit it long to Rashford'. We were pressing as high up the pitch as I can remember vs a very good team and trying to force mistakes. Chelsea were playing 5 at the back and were clearly setup (Kante, Mount) conscious of our qualities.
Sometimes in games, teams just end up cancelling each other out. It's not the end of the world, if that's what Tuchel wants to do in his home games vs a 'clueless' team like United, so be it.
It’s not laughable at all. We are not comparing Ole’s subs to Tuchel’s. This point about Tuchel only came up as his coaching has been hailed and Ole is being blamed for the 0-0. Whereas Tuchel, who needed the 3 points more and had better options on the bench yesterday than Ole, had a defensive/safety first approach yesterday throughout the game.He didn't start Werner because he started his other attackers in Giroud and Ziyech. This is simple logic. Why didn't Ole go more attacking and start Martial? Oh that's right, because he chose his other attacker instead. Jesus, what a stupid debate this is.
James is good going forward and CHO was injured. If you don't know enough about him or what actually happened then this is your issue. The funny thing is the criticism you're levelling at the opposition for 1 game are all things Ole does non stop
Of course Ole does weird subs and all that, but the point here is that Ole is being blamed for the 0-0 and not the world class coach Tuchel. They are not even both being blamed, just one of them and that’s agenda driven by the same posters.
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