Exactly. It's the easiest prediction to say we won't win the league under Ole next season. City are going to be odds on and us probably 4th favourites (behind City, Liverpool and Chelsea) regardless who is in charge.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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I mean, we've played Brendan's Leicester 5 times since Ole came in, beating them 3 times and drawing + losing once. Yet, the last result is somehow proof he's better? Make it make sense.
I don't understand the negativity. We haven't been steered wrong by this leadership yet, neither have we had unnecessary contract extensions bite us in the arse ever.
I fully trust the trajectory Woodward et al. has put us on.
I fully trust the trajectory Woodward et al. has put us on.
I'm not stating any opinion, I'm just saying it as it is: It would be expected that a Manchester United manager would be doing better than the Leicester and Leipzig managers. At the end of the day, there's a huge divide when it comes to Ole. Some praise him for the most basic of things and some refuse to praise him for anything. Some praise other managers for the most basic of things and some pretend they're awful. This forum has become utterly obsessed with the man and it's seeping into far too many threads.
Rodgers is doing a fantastic job at Leicester, that's obvious. I just find it's a trend amoung the pro-Ole posters to always shit on other managers, which comes across as a) disingenuous b) bitter and c) very insecure.
Tbf the responses are coming from Kaos' post which literally said Rodgers was better. It's not like they're rambling in the dark here.
I don't think you can compare United/Leicester when it comes to injuries. Our back-up players earn more than their starters..
Go into literally any other manager thread and see the trajectory of the thread. I didn't necessarily follow that convo but was expressing annoyance at something that has being going on for a long time now.
I would also wager anyone outside of United would rate Rodgers a lot higher than they rate Ole so it's hardly a controversial opinion.
Its unavoidable unfortunately. When every Tom & Dick is consistently making eyes at the latest manager to do something notable and is absolutely certain that they'd be better here, then the natural reaction is to look for holes in that guy. Its stupid, I agree.
This Ole back and forth is never going to end, sadly.
Nah, the great thing about Ole is that everyone gets to be right at certain points of the season. In the end, no one will be right imo. He's nowhere near as bad as some have you believe but ultimately I don't see him being wildly successful either.
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Well, considering it's a Manchester United fans forum (the key words being Manchester and United) don't you think there's a *bit* more of a likelihood that there will be people who rate the current manager?
What people think outside of the club is irrelevant. This is a Utd fans forum, and in that context, having a position that you would prefer the current manager above another manager (who he has already beaten 3 times in head to heads, no less) is not a controversial opinion to have.
People are invested in this thread as he is our manager, he is the most important person at the Club.
Vindication, desperation, these are just reasons in your head with no basis in reality. What does saying "I told you so" to a group of strangers achieve. Nothing.
If people want him out, it is because they don't think he can win us the CL or PL. Or they don't like his football.
Edit: saw the message you replied to, my bad, I told you so is very important for some people.
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Phil Jones earns more than most Leicester's starting XI. That argument really doesn't hold up IMO.
It is stupid and it really irks me tbh. It's worse though when other managers threads get monopolised with Ole bullshit. While some are ridiculously negative about him, plenty come across obsessive and insecure about him. Honestly, he's broken a shit load of posters.
You're rambling and obviously misconstrued my last post.
It's not just about the last game though, its about putting their relative achievements into context.
Prior to being given the United job, Ole's career has consisted of several years managing Molde, and a brief failed stint at Cardiff. Since managing at United he's spent over £250million which so far hasn't materialised into any success on the trophy front. While Rodgers also hasn't won anything of note, he did take Liverpool close to winning the league and is currently overachieving with Leicester, narrowly missing the champions league last season and is now only a point below Ole's United, with far more limited resources at this disposal.
It really isn't outlandish to suggest Rodgers is the better manager. Do you think Ole would have Leicester sitting comfortably in top 4 this season? And do you think any club would opt for him over Rodgers given the choice between the two?
He's broken this forum. I've never known a group of people to be so obsessed about anything as they are about Ole. I really don't think its possible to find anything new to say on the subject.
There's nothing new. Anything that's been said has been said at least a thousand times before. I know some like to think they are coming here with new insightful views, but news flash, it's been done to death. We're in the middle of an international break and he's still the hot topic ffs!
There you go again with the irrelevant and safe 'do you think X would equal Y in another reality' questions. Whats the point?
It's not far-fetched to think we could be seeing the same discussion with Moyes instead of Rodgers, had he not been our manager already.
4th or 5th with West Ham!, Ole never won a trophy!, Ask any club who'd they rather take, etc.
Good post.
I would've sacked him for Tuchel. I have my doubts about all the other names, so I don't think we'll lose out on anyone else now that we've missed the boat on Tuchel.
I don't think his results are similar to LvGs, maybe to Mourinho's (so far). Van Gaal finished 4th and 5th in 2 seasons where most of the top teams were in some kind of transition, and he surely got a lof of money to spend (and missed with most of his signings).
The only good thing that's come out of it is that its highlighted all of the supporters that will quickly turn on this club if we aren't number one. The type that will post in this thread all through a match, but won't ever put a comment in the post-match threads unless we've lost.
It's a discussion forum. Not entirely sure what nihilistic point you're trying to make here.
This. Then people get upset when a Manchester United fan defends the Manchester United manager.
So you ask 'would Ole have Leicester top 4?' to which i can answer 'unequivocally 100% yes'. Its easy because I never have to worry about reality proving me wrong, just like you don't with your claims that Rodgers would do better at United. It adds nothing to the conversation
I'm not above having my mind changed, so feel free to refute the argument. I've already explained my reasons as to why I think Rodgers is the better coach, and its nothing to do with Ole bashing or knee jerking on the back of recent results.
See, this 'overachievement' talk is when you're losing me. I can just about see other arguments about progress but the idea that we're somehow overachieving is so blatantly ridiculous that it takes my breath away. The only metric by which he's overachieving is that indeed a lot of people thought he would do worse than this. That doesn't mean he's overachieving, it just means people really didn't rate him. Fighting for top 4 without winning anything isn't overachievement, it's just about on par.
Not sure where you're going with the first paragraph either. My only point was that over the past eight years, pessimists were proven right over and over again - we haven't even been close to a title challenge and we haven't been relevant in the Champions League. I expect that this won't change. If it does, I'll be happy. A serious title challenge - being within 6 points of the leaders with 5-6 games to go - would essentially mean I'm proven wrong. I just don't think it will happen because, as I said before, we look a million years away.
Don't know if anyone got upset about that, but if they did jeez.
Anyhow yeah, I just have a dislike for other managers being made out to be a-bit wank, and the metrics used to judge them are always highly disingenuous. Some, not all, seem to think rating other managers is a dig at Ole. Take a look at the Poch, Rose or Naglelsmann threads for evidence of this. Not everyone on here is obsessive about Ole and some just happen to rate other managers.
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Our standards have been lowered. We've become Arsenal of the fag end Wenger years. Top 4 is now a "feck yeah" achievement.
Simplest answer is different to lazy argument. Simplest answer can still be relevant and show enough context. Your lazy argument doesn't have enough context to the argument because you're talking about who's better manager not talking about whether Pep can work with this current squad this season. Better manager can be viewed in many things means not enough context and it's irrelevant to the argument which has big question mark whether our current players suit to the manager's specific player. Good example, Since Pep Guardiola is a better manager than Manuel Pellegrini & Mancini, so why Pep Guardiola couldn't get the best out of Yaya Toure? Because the player doesn't suit his style right?
For the fans yes, but for the owners not at all. So long as the club remains profitable (top 4) then I think they've always been content with where we're at. They were just lucky to have had SAF around for a while.
Eventually it all comes down to good enough or not, if they were far or close but still not good enough doesnt make a difference for me.
People take the flag of Ole being better than Mou or LVG as if thats the standard, but it isnt or shouldnt be at least. Just being better than the past 2 failed managers shouldn't be the enough to keep your job, he should be evaluated on other factors. He can do a less worse job that the two previous managers and still fail.
I still think this is a particular case for Ole, I wasnt in the forum at the time but I dont recall anyone defending LVG saying well, yeah his football is poor but Moyes was worse so let's keep him.
But we are not talking about a single player improvement are we? We are talking about a whole team.
Its like saying who do you think will do better here Messi or Daniel James, sure we could give a lot of explanation saying Messi works under a very specific system, how produced his best stats with Xavier and Iniesta arguing he wasnt as successful with Argentina for example, etc but ultimately you dont need to. Simple logic says that Messi would do better than Daniel James.
Same case for me of Pep and Ole, they are so far apart in quality that analyzing a bunch of factors is not really necessary to know who would do better.
Could love this post anymore possibly!
Absolutely nailed it.
Sadly our supporter base by an large is no better than Newcastle. This is what we've become with idiotic, inaccurate rants about boards and turning on managers constantly and the horrific abuse our players get across social media be it racial or otherwise.
When Pogba was abused at the end of the season not long ago it was roundly supported on here and many other forums and a large section of our supporters.
Why would you prefer that?
That makes zero sense.
The FA Cup is absolutely irrelevant at this point. The FA void winning it if you finish top 4 (which we likely will).
Europa league as much as I hate it gives a far greater prize of CL qualification.
Twenty years ago we took a dump on the FA Cup and refused to play in it, from there its lost any relevancy pretty much. The FA have silently agreed and its reward of a EL spot is only there for midtable teams like West Ham, Southampton etc as a route to European football.
How do "we" the fans refute the notion that "we're satisfied with top 4"? Demand a sacking?
Our results wouldn't be any different if we were "satisfied" with top 10!
The owners' standards is a $$$ equation with top 4 as the answer. Utd is a business, while City and Madrid are prestige projects by the UAE and Spain respectively.
"Our standards have dropped" and "we're happy with top 4 now" are just insults to fellow fans disguised as arguments in favour of sacking the manager.
Arsenal wins something at least then and there. We only want that CL spot. And that is enough that our manager gets not just new contract. He gets pay rise for great job.
And it is amazing how our former players who won everything and tried to win every single cup (Rio, Gary, Paul and Becks) are now saying how Ole is doing "phenomenal" job. Phenomenal! Bloody hell.
Well Ole is made out constantly to made out to be a bit-wank constantly by people who are highly disingenuous. I rate those managers too but if you post constantly about how you want Ole sacked on a United forum and post in those threads after United lose, then expect United fans to have a go back at those people in those threads when those managers fail.
Some people just don’t like a taste of their own medicine.
Well that's the thing, you're actively contributing to the extremist views and feeding into it. When it then starts to seep into other threads it gets irritating for people who aren't obsessive about Ole. I saw you bashing Rodgers randomly in the Ole contract thread a-few minutes ago. Your post was highly disingenuous and biased. But hey, I guess you can't see how your behaviour is actively contributing to the toxicity surrounding Ole discussions.
This argument would have merit if the real world worked the way FM does with value=Stats
Bringing FM into a debate and trying to look credible
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