Yeah I think we mostly agree because I’m hoping to see a real challenge and ideally a cup.
But isn't that sort of the essence of the conflict? You say, he is the best of what we had since Fergie, lets keep him. Others say, he is the least bad one of the ones we had - lets not stick with him at all costs possible.
Waiting for the perfect squad doesn't make sense. Players age and their form changes, waiting for the perfectly assembled squad is way too risky because great players turn not so great at some point. Apart from that - last seasons bigges failures haven't been because other teams had more perfect teams than we did:
Because managerial appointments do not all lead to success. A few people on here were rooting for us to lose under LVG so that we can hire Mou - a better manager, and I don't think it took us anywhere.
-The last 2 games were PSG and Leipzig FYI.
WIll just talk about the 1st 2 points here as others are completely subjective and we won't end up anywhere
It would be nice if people tried to do some quick math before setting these standards.
C is very harsh indeed. I think he’s done a B+ job at worst. Think where we were when he joined to where we are now. It’s night and day and it’s almost all solely down to him. It’s basically been the next best thing to having SAF back.
I don't think either of them has merit. Because they're both based on the notion that I as a fan should form a judgment on how "good" Ole is, and then ask myself whether that's good enough. Which is a mug's game. What matters is what happens. And what happens is that the club has been getting steadily better and is now much, much closer to being a title contender than it has ever been post-SAF. And this is being accomplished not at the expense of the club's longer term prospects, but in a way that enhances them. A manager who achieves that is doing a good job, regardless of how "good" you or anyone else thinks he is.
Ole outer's starting early this season.
The pundits don’t set the odds. The odds follow the punters. The reason we’re still 8-1 is not that many people are betting on us.
Yup as shown by the fact that a lot of pundits are predicting Chelsea to win the league but yet they are 9/2 as well
What about if I told you I despise with all my heart Manchester united
Then yeah you should want us to fire Ole and continue the manager merry go round.
Agree with this, and it reminds me of a post I wrote last season regarding how many people still take for granted most of the good things that Ole has done for the club and can't bring themselves to give him the level of credit he deserves because of who he is and how he is still perceived.
Your assessment of Klopp's time at Liverpool is ridiculous, he has got them to two CL finals, and the season they finished second they achieved 97 points, to not win the league with a points tally like that is absurd. When Ole achieves a 90+ point season like Klopp has done twice, and wins the CL, then you can compare him with Klopp.
Liverpool didn't become competitive until Klopp's 4th season in charge. He took over the team in the beginning of October as well, so he basically spent 3 full seasons building his team.
Unfortunately I don't see how we can realistically be expected to compete with Man City. We don't have two elite first 11's to bring out.
I’m not against Ole, but I have to disagree. Klopp reached the Champions League final in his 2nd full season in charge. And they were an average team at the start of 15/16, having finished 6th under Rodgers in 14/15.
Taking over in October when the team is in a mess isn't a full season, you don't get the summer window to sell or buy anyone, and you don't get pre season to work on tactics or team chemistry, please try to be honest in your arguments instead of stretching the truth. Liverpool reached the CL final in Klopp's second full season, Ole failed to get through the group stage in his second season. So yes, Ole has done a worse job at the same stage, reaching the CL final trumps failing to get out of the group stage.
Ok, I have 3 issues with this:
See my reply to the other guy.
Ole doesn't decide the price. AWB is very similar to Shaw in terms of profile(promising young English fullback from a midtable PL team), yet he cost roughly twice as much. Why? Because the market went inside somewhere between 2017 and 2018. It's not "natural inflation" either. Players have been stupidly expensive for the last 3 years.
They exist because people keep saying:
Also, no one is really comparing Ole to Klopp overall. If we were, then it would be the shortest discussion in the world. Klopp has 4 major trophies, Ole has 0. Discussion over.
They exist because the Ole-in crew have always used the comparison to say that it took Klopp 3 years to really get Liverpool purring. So this is essentially the season things are now expected of Ole - well going by those comparisons anyway - and people are rightfully bringing it up. I'm sure the goalposts will shift again though.
Depends. From what I’ve seen, a lot of people would be happy with a title challenge this season even if we don’t go on to win the league. I’d be inclined to agree, as we’d be in serious contention for one of the biggest prizes. People don’t have a “hard on” for coming 2nd in the CL. They’d just be happy all things considered to be in serious contention for club football’s biggest prize. Much happier than going quite far in League Cup or Europa without winning any of them.
The answer to that is that the view that a manager not winning the PL or CL in his third season is somehow an anomaly that constitutes a sackable offense, which a lot of people think, but which I for my part I think is completely mental. We've not won either of them for a decade. You can say "this is the biggest club in the world" as much as you like, but the reality is that it's a long time since we were a club of that quality. To me it's now about to getting back to being in that picture. Once we are, we can start thinking about how often we should be winning big titles again. The last decade is a write-off, where we didn't win these things and frankly weren't good enough that there was any reason why we would.
"A few people on here on here voted" so what? What does that mean? Nothing. I was against Mourinho because it was obvious we would have to face a switch in terms of how we play. So some guys on an internet forum put their money on the wrong horse and now? That means it is automatically the right choice to stick with the current horse? That doesn't seem to be rational to me at all. Mind, I am not asking to sack Ole because he did a good job. But if I want to see United be as competitive as possible, a "good job" might not be good enough.
My mistake. Apologies. But on the core, the point remains valid - we could have booked the progress in the group by beating the Turkish side, at least afaik.
Maybe you misunderstood me and I made it not precise enough. I put this words in:
I'd like other people to quote the actual things a person used and not just half of it.
Fully agree. And I am pretty sure, you will not find quotes where I say, Ole isn't doing a good job. What I say is, "doing a good job" might not be enough when our competitors have coaches who are "doing very good jobs". That shouldn't be debatable in my mind.
it was the post literally above it, and that post also quoted you. Most people would think quoting the post again would be overkill.
I am a very conservatice person so believe me, I am not wanting change for the sake of changing. But our issues in the past shouldn't stop us to try things. We are doing it for players, looking at Camavinga for example, so why is it so difficult to grasp, that we should at least think in the same direction regarding the manager.
And still Liverpool were able to win the league and we were able to be top of the table half a year in. It is possible, it is difficult, but it is possible. Writing the season off before is madness and, in my eyes, rightfully perceived as a somewhat unjust defeatism.
Just have a look...
Look at what I said.
Look at what the user perceived from my text. Misunderstandings happen, I tried to be more clear in a response to him
Click the link, look at what this user quoted. He changed what I wrote by using only the parts that fitted his argument.
In the PL we almost always play our strongest team possible. Even with 2 or 3 key players out injured, we'll still have a stronger team than 16 out of 20 teams.
I never replied to your post, so I'm not sure why you've said the bolded part. For what its worth I generally enjoy your posts whether I agree with them or not.
Fair enough, I didn't want to falsely accuse you of something. My apologies.
