And that's when fanbois of Pochettino refuse to put down any such marker for PSG despite having an unbelievable squad now.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
- Status
I hate this argument even more. Barca did not need a pure striker back when they dominated Europe so why did SAF often prefer to have four on rotation.
I don’t understand logic like this at all. Chelsea, City and Liverpool all have squads as good as ours.There will be small margins that decides the outcome and injuries to main players will play a part.
I think he's doing a perfectly fine job thus far. He inherited a mess of a football club and has built it up well. So much so that in the space of two and a bit years we've gone from Smalling and Sanchez to Varane and Sancho.
At the outset, he's had a plan and he has diligently stuck to it, even being patient and not settling for 2nd or 3rd choice options, etc. Yet despite how slow and anemic our board has been in getting the necessary deals over the line, he's still managed to improve us and the players that were already here. Some of whom were borderline jokes.
So I'll say this: your asking how much time does he need, hasn't he done enough so far in his time here, with a largely inferior squad for most of it, to be given that time? Even now, this board hasn't gone far enough in its support of Ole to give him the DM that he badly needs to assure us of a title challenge. As soon as I can say that he has the tools necessary to succeed or fail, then I will be willing to give him the time and benefit of the doubt. If he drops out of the top 4 however, then he'll have to be let go as that is the bare minimum. I'm expecting more as Varane and Sancho will naturally elevate us above the top 4 challengers like Leicester, but as far as the board is concerned, top 4 is that threshold for them
Needs a good start to the season this time round otherwise pressure will truly be on...I dont think he will get the same benefit of doubt he got the last two seasons.
See you all in the reactionary crybaby post-match debate!
Pretty much where I’m at.
He's doing a great job overall. The squad's the best it's been since Fergie left and players seem really happy.
He could still be more brave in making changes in tense games (e.g. EL final) but nobody's perfect.
He could still be more brave in making changes in tense games (e.g. EL final) but nobody's perfect.
Agreed, things aren't so black and white.
All I can ask is we remain competitive, challenge well in every competition. Wins/loses on penalties can happen, but we need to start winning these matches in 90 minutes.
You need a bit of luck on your side too, but i'm so much happier watching United now than I was under Jose.
This thread being bumped yesterday has to be the most predictable thing ever 
I'm sure that you'll find lots of examples where great coaches have a supposedly better penalty keeper on the bench but still don't make the sub. If anything, that seems to be the standard. To use it as a stick to beat Ole with strikes me as moronic. But then again 'moronic' is a good description of the football forum every time we lose or draw or when something marginally good happens to our rivals. I'm sure that if Liverpool got an ice cream sponsorship tomorrow people would bash Ole for hating ice cream.
I'm sure that you'll find lots of examples where great coaches have a supposedly better penalty keeper on the bench but still don't make the sub. If anything, that seems to be the standard. To use it as a stick to beat Ole with strikes me as moronic. But then again 'moronic' is a good description of the football forum every time we lose or draw or when something marginally good happens to our rivals. I'm sure that if Liverpool got an ice cream sponsorship tomorrow people would bash Ole for hating ice cream.
I still look back on 4 semi finals and a final lost in 2 years. Management will have to prove we can get over this and win these type of games. No excuses this year if we get in a boss in midfield.
At big clubs, you expect excellence from your players and management. If we have lofty ambitions, we have to expect our manager (and players) to do great things. Surely, "oh there are small margins and injuries will play a part" is setting the bar low? To win the PL and CL again, we need a top manager which is what Ole has to prove he is.
Just to add, one of the factors that determine who wins what, is, infact, the quality of the manager. Hope Ole is up to the mark!
Well this is new to me. Never realised it was Ole who paid from his own pocket for Varane and Sancho.
City don't have top striker few years now, Liverpool didn't have creative midfielder, 2nd defender and backup for front 3, Chelsea last year have some big holes in squad, etc...
But they all won stuff.
I swear; if we have 21 world class player, some would say "but, but, but we don't have backup right back".
I don't think anyone including the poster is claiming he paid from his own pocket. He is saying how Ole has had a hand in changing how we operate in the market.
Its pretty obvious really that Ole has had a say in this.
Expectations gone down the drain I see.
A lot of posters here seem happy and claim that Ole has done a great job, but really he's got nothing to show for.
I mean in 10, 20, 30 years from now noone will remember all the "great" things that Ole did if there isn't any silverware won. It's the same thing for Poch, whenever someone says about how great his Spurs side were, but they have nothing to show for except for a Ch. League final which they lost.
It's a bit frustrating reading that "we don't care if we win anything, just to see great football, Ole has built a very entertaining team to watch, blah, blah".
But a big team gets big by winning silverware and not for just playing great football (which up until now, we don't), we want to be entertained and these kind of bs.
Let's just wait and see how's it gonna end and then we can say if he did a great job or not. Up until now just ok no more no less
A lot of posters here seem happy and claim that Ole has done a great job, but really he's got nothing to show for.
I mean in 10, 20, 30 years from now noone will remember all the "great" things that Ole did if there isn't any silverware won. It's the same thing for Poch, whenever someone says about how great his Spurs side were, but they have nothing to show for except for a Ch. League final which they lost.
It's a bit frustrating reading that "we don't care if we win anything, just to see great football, Ole has built a very entertaining team to watch, blah, blah".
But a big team gets big by winning silverware and not for just playing great football (which up until now, we don't), we want to be entertained and these kind of bs.
Let's just wait and see how's it gonna end and then we can say if he did a great job or not. Up until now just ok no more no less
Agreed, although I would say he needs to win a trophy this season otherwise some sections of the fanbase will start to turn.
Sancho and Varane are brilliant signings but it's all relative. City have a better starting point and have just splurged £100m on Grealish with potentially Kane or another striker to come. Chelsea are stronger than last year by virtue of having Tuchel for an entire season, and are about to sign Lukaku which addresses the only real weakness in their team.
This idea that we have to win the league or still be in contention with a couple of weeks to go for Solskjaer to keep his job is nonsense.
He hasn't done a 'great job' - this is hyperbole from the usual crew. He's done a good enough job, especially with the rebuild and I fully expect a title challenge this season. Can't wait for Saturday!
I find it fascinating that so many believe in Ole. This is exactly like the Mourinho 2018 season. Yes, we came second, but our football is not sustainable in the long run. Can't you see it? We are closer to third than to second, and that will show this season. The only reason we got better is we got a better squad than before and had Bruno instead of Pereira. We didn't get better because Ole developed our style of football or our passing. We are still underwhelming at passing, playing out from the back, pressing, and basically elementary things in football such as defending from set-pieces. We have a great squad and Ole has shown to be a very good man-manager, but he isn't a great football coach and that will show this season.
If we fail to challenge for the title this season, it'd be a complete failure.
Hopefully we get off to a good start.
Hopefully we get off to a good start.
Didn't Klopp take four or five years before he finally won the league after inheriting a squad full of dross? And that was being incredibly lucky in the transfer market. We are in the best shape of the post SAF era right now and clearly headed in the right direction for once.
While I absolutely agree that United need to start winning some trophies to show for it. (The Europa defeat was a colossal failure IMO because we scored the equaliser and then didn't try to win the game. Very un-United)
But if you cannot see the difference between United under Solskjaer to how it was under Moyes, van Gaal and Mourinho then you aren't very observant or have a very short memory.
Yes, the club needs to start winning things. But its actually enjoyable to be a red again. I don't know if you're a match-going fan or not, but the atmosphere around the place on a matchday is a world away from what it was. Under van Gaal especially, it would be a treat to see a fecking shot on goal or a forward run. I would look around the stadium before KO totally removed from the kid who fell in love with football. Under Ole, the DNA of United and the love of the Club is returning. He obviously just needs to make this team one who gets to lots of Semi-Finals and Finals into one that wins them. But i'm happy personally to have the patience to see that play out. Luckily, so too are the board so far.
I really urge you to be careful what you wish for. Ole is sacked tonight.. Who is the new manager? What will the atmosphere be? It's all starting from Base again. Do you really trust Ed to appoint someone who isn't just another Moyes, Van Gaal or Mourinho? Who ignore the youth teams and create a toxic atmosphere again. I can't understand why some people think cutting out Ole is the best thing. Ole is the best thing that's happened to this club in years.
They played great football and dominated matches completely while spending half of what Ole has. We couldn't control a game at home against WBA last season.
That's not true.. people need to look at the true numbers.
Klopp first 3 seasons spent £391m
Ole including this season has spent £394m
Half yeah?
Or are you going to change your narrative to net spend to suit it?
They scored alot but also conceded alot of goals and lost control of games. It took some time to build belief and the winning mentality you see today.
That's the thing, in 30 years time who gives a feck how the atmosphere was in the dressing room if we have won nothing.
I didn't say anything about how he inherited a mess and fixed things cause that's the manager's job. In any job noone is saying well done just because you did the job you were supposed to do. And coming back to my opening statement in 30 years you will say that we had 3 terrible managers that won x,y,z cups but they messed up badly and then Ole came and fixed everything but won nothing(hypothetically).
I became a Man United fan because of the football played but also because they were winning things. Unfortunately I'm from Greece and going to matches to Old Trafford isn't easy (money problems). I only managed to come to Manchester once and unlucky for me we were playing the FA semi final with Everton in Wembley (Van Gaal era).
Everyone has patience even the Ole-outers but at some point you have to start asking questions. Arsenal was playing great football in the Wenger later years and were winning cups (at least) but fans demanded more. Are we so much behind as a fan base that we just want to see great football and nevermind winning things?
I'm tired of the so-called United DNA and United way, like every other team doesn't have DNA or their "way" of doing things. These are just generalisations for politics and nice words for the fans.
From how I see it the DNA of Manchester United is winning things (Glory, Glory Man United...?) not cheap talk about progress, atmosphere in the dressing room, small margins and excuses like we don't have a RB,CB,DVD
I don't think anyone is ever in the mindset of not caring if we win anything, but trophies are not the beginning and end of being able to take pleasure from a football club. Of course it will have an impact on how United fans eventually view Ole, but he'll probably never get the respect he deserves from many anyway. If he left today he should certainly be able to do so with his head held high and his reputation enhanced.
Your post here, but particularly the bit I have bolded is where we differ a lot.
I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right, you're very welcome to support whatever team you like and for whatever reason you like. I also absolutely do not consider myself more of a Red because I've been to more games. Same way I don't feel an inferior Red to those who are season ticket holders. I pay good money to support the club and that's enough.
I do think your opinion would likely be different if you are ever lucky enough to spend more time here, hear some local fan views and attend a match or two. I concede that Ole will need to win trophies and soon. But I feel much closer to the Club in its current state than I would under Mourinho, even with the odd trophy in between the dross. Give me Ole and a trophyless season anyday. I'd have given him a 10 year deal.
With the caveat that I very much agree with the first part of your post, I would say he needs to improve on the second part, and if he doesn't I don't believe he'll win anything. He's built an excellent squad, filled them with belief, and integrated a clear recognisable style. That's only half the battle though. You're going to come up against teams that work you out, or teams that are better than you. In-game management is a huge part of your job as a coach and in modern football it usually is what separates the best from the rest. I do think it's what's cost us in the cup competitions, as things go wrong in knockout football and you need to sort it out quickly. If he improves on this, I think we'll definitely win something within the next 12-24 months. If not, we really should consider our options, even with all the good things he's done.
Sorry, net spend is what I meant.
We lucked our way with him. WC at rebuilding the squad and a United man on top.
All the fans who spent all their weekends going to the games will. And that’s what matters really.
United have primarily had two successful times in the post WW2 period. The mid to late 60s and the incredible Ferguson reign - there was a lot of shit in between and since.
If you'd started following football a bit earlier or later you'd be a Liverpool/Chelsea/City fan.
Fans that understand football appreciate that there's good times and bad times - and returning to the good times involves a long term plan and building year by year to make up ground on the teams that are currently successful.
Well said. Nail on the head
The fact that he has generally bought well, the players are now motivated and the fans are now emotionally engaged in the team are big plus points that should not be sniffed at considering how badly we were failing in these areas prior to his appointment.
Having said that, and this opinion is nothing that hasn't been said already most likely, the quality in our play is still just not there unless it's a game where we are happy to counter. I've seen little evolution otherwise.
His ability to use subs effectively is also a bit of a joke.
So many games last year it was still horribly off the cuff from an attacking perspective and watching us playing out from the back is still a truly depressing experience. On this point it says to me second rate coaching but, again, those are his coaches and the buck still stops with him.
He has more or less earned another crack at it this year (and nothing would be better if he pulled it off) but hard to get away from the feeling that the ceiling has indeed been hit and it would be best to start looking at other candidates. That does not appear to be on the cards atm so have to just get behind him which is easy to do in fairness given plus points mentioned above.
Having said that, and this opinion is nothing that hasn't been said already most likely, the quality in our play is still just not there unless it's a game where we are happy to counter. I've seen little evolution otherwise.
His ability to use subs effectively is also a bit of a joke.
So many games last year it was still horribly off the cuff from an attacking perspective and watching us playing out from the back is still a truly depressing experience. On this point it says to me second rate coaching but, again, those are his coaches and the buck still stops with him.
He has more or less earned another crack at it this year (and nothing would be better if he pulled it off) but hard to get away from the feeling that the ceiling has indeed been hit and it would be best to start looking at other candidates. That does not appear to be on the cards atm so have to just get behind him which is easy to do in fairness given plus points mentioned above.
Yes, same like he had a say in Phil Jones extending his contract. And not only that, but again saying this year Phil Jones is in first team plans.
It's absolutely ridiculous argument, Mourinho upgraded us from Fellaini to Pogba, why did we let him go then?
And he is rightly criticised for him. Although, he was interim manager at that time actually.
Ridiculous argument? what you think there hasn't been a change in the way we operate, the transfers we bring in?
Actually, let me jog your memory, Jose did not sell Fellaini for Pogba, Ole sold Fellaini. Why did we get rid?
1. He marginalised our players, Shaw, Martial, Shaw etc..
2. Created a very toxic environment
3. Having a go at us as a club for having ambition - Sevilla rant
4. The football was absolutely dreadful
5. Went to Anfield to lose 1-0 not to draw or win
6. We were 6th with no future.
Do you need more reasons?
Since Fergie left, Ole is more on the bench than any coach. He spent more money than others and he has by far best squad. Not to mention that he picked every player. But he still didn't match best season by points (Mourinho) or the most important thing; he didn't won anything so far.
This season he MUST win something. Excuses like progress, good mood around club and shit like that are over.
This season he MUST win something. Excuses like progress, good mood around club and shit like that are over.
I hope you realise I was not defending Mourinho in general, just mentioning that same ridiculous argument that Ole replaced Smalling with Varane, what a move by Ole!
Both sides usually irritate me in this debate but seeing posts like 'People will still have a go at Ole for finishing below City if they get Kane' and my reaction is, well why are the expectations lowered? A well drilled team can beat a more expensively assembled team: Klopp did it a few years ago against City, Sir Alex did it against Chelsea in 06-07, Leicester did it in 15-16 and Fecking Lille are champions of the French league against a team with Neymar and Mbappe in it.
This is a very good, well assembled United side that's got to stop thinking/acting like an underdog that can only play on the counter. If Ole gets no trophies or just about scrapes top 4 it's NOT a good season.No amount of pointing the finger at City's spending will change that. Fortunately I think he'll get a trophy this season and I think we'll be closer to City so it's not exactly doom and gloom even if City sign Kane.
- Status