Are you referring to that Kees guy? He's irritating with his agendaYeah pretty much. I said something recently on Twitter about some stats guy (supposedly a Utd fan) who constantly denigrates Utd under Ole for having no plan and our results being unsustainable, that the way he talks about us, you'd be forgiven for thinking that we're Burnley, and not the team who was behind only Man City in points accrued since January 2020, and I think since Ole first joined in his caretaker stint we've been comfortably third on that metric as well, behind only the all conquering Liverpool and City sides.
That alone should tell you that what we're doing under Ole is pretty fecking sustainable, no?
Another corker was this absolute toilet water of a tweet:
Tweet
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Like seriously, what does that even mean?
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Ronaldos goal came after Masons shot. The other chances were unlikely goals, half chances. Creating something dangerous is an issue we have and had for a long time. We tend to struggle against these teams, more than against the big teams. Southampten and Wolves were no different
Awesome isn't it, some brain-dead posts saying how we couldn't attract better players. Club and financial package plays big role than who the manager is (except very rare exceptions)
There is no one else more suitable for the current squad. He knows the history and the DNA of the great club. He has displayed his ability to relate to the younger players. He commands instant respect from the experienced players like Ronaldo and Cavani. The next league title will come under his leadership.
I think that this thread in the last day sums up why the Ole Out stuff is so nonsensical. Two posts in this thread said that they were disappointed by United because Newcastle had better chances. Another said we misplaced too many passes.
is despite stats showing we had a much better expected goals level then Newcastle and also that we had by far the highest level of successful passes in a game week with the highest level of completed passes.
The people who aren’t happy with our performances are often living in another world of what football clubs can actually achieve. People are expecting performances that are simply not achieved or not understanding what is happening in the game.
is despite stats showing we had a much better expected goals level then Newcastle and also that we had by far the highest level of successful passes in a game week with the highest level of completed passes.
The people who aren’t happy with our performances are often living in another world of what football clubs can actually achieve. People are expecting performances that are simply not achieved or not understanding what is happening in the game.
This is the kind of hyperbole that causes perfectly legitimate debates about Ole and the team's coaching to deteriorate into shouting matches. Can you tone it down please?
Is our current coaching and style of play a little too reliant on the talent and brilliance of individual players? Yes, I think so. But you don't get to second in the league with objectively bad coaching, and there are plenty of examples that show the team has been coached well to do the following:
- Play with a specific style in most games (building from the back, using overlapping fullbacks to create overloads in wide areas, and committing defenders in one-on-one duels to create space);
- Play intricate, one-touch passing to break down a low block (as was seen with Lingard's goal today and multiple goals last season);
- Improve attaching and defending set pieces (only four games in, you can already see a massive difference in both boxes);
- Adapt to games against superior opposition to play highly effective counter-attacking football (see our last three victories against City, and our FA Cup victory against Liverpool last season).
There are obvious weaknesses. We are vulnerable to counter-attacks due to structural issues in midfield, and we do not have a coordinated system of pressing to win the ball back quickly after losing it. We also suffer against low blocks sometimes because of the aforementioned style that encourages one-on-one take-ons, which means when our attackers are in poor form we can look blunt. We also lack, in my opinion, a universal understanding among the team of where attackers should run in the final third to make space, and we sometimes have issues progressing the ball up the pitch for the same reason.
The above tactical limitations are what our direct rivals for the title this season (Chelsea and City) excel at, and that, in short, is why there are and should be legitimate reservations about Ole's ability to beat those teams to the title. Ole is not a bad coach. You don't get where you are by being a bad coach. He just isn't in the absolute top bracket of coaches; a bracket that in my opinion, only includes five our six managers. The problem is that three of them manage our direct rivals. In almost any other era, I would be supremely confident that Ole could win the league with this team. The problem isn't that he's no good. The problem is that, compared to what we're up against, he may not be quite good enough.
He has other key qualities that may make up for the above coaching limitations. He is, by all accounts, an outstanding man manager (see getting Pogba onside, getting players up for big games during some of our lowest points), and an even better squad builder (like honestly, this team on paper is world class). Will this, with the individual quality of Ronaldo, Pogba, Bruno, Rashford, Greenwood, Varane, Maguire, Shaw, and De Gea, be enough to overcome the above tactical deficiencies and win us the league? That's what the next eight months should tell us.
But to my broader point; stop being a twitter critic; if you want to criticise Ole, introduce a bit of nuance into your analysis. This could apply to a lot of regulars on this thread... on both sides of the debate.
That's not entirely true though. I'll refer you to my above post. The reasonable criticisms of Ole (and there are plenty of unreasonable criticisms), is not that our performances are bad, or that we have to be be at this supposedly stratospheric dominant level for the majority of the game, every game. It's that we're looking over at the coaches we're competing against for the top honours and seeing that there is another level that can be achieved. And we're worried that this manager may not quite have this level in his locker.
I'm definitely not Ole out; I think he's done a fantastic job and I can't think of anyone currently available who would improve us. I actually think Ole and this team is good enough to win the league in almost any other era. But this era? With the level of sophistication that Tuchel and Guardiola's teams can achieve? The jury, for me, is still out.
I don't want to be a party pooper here. I am super invested and happy with this team, and the most excited I've been in a decade that we can actually win the league. I'm just trying to explain what my reservations are. My worry is given what we're competing against, is our current level good enough?
I do find it hilarious that Poch boy moaned about our ability to keep the ball in a game where we played more passes than anyone else with a higher success than anyone else. Assuming he will disappear until he finds something to moan about like normal.
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It’s hard to be negative right now.
If you look at club three or four years ago, it’s completely unrecognisable to what we have now. We’ve got genuine world-class players, interspersed and supported by players from the academy. And we’re going out to play fast football, exciting football, score goals. There’s a positive atmosphere surrounding the club and the future looks bright for us.
Whether that’s with Ole at the helm, time will tell. But one thing that’s for certain is that if it doesn’t work out with him, the next manager will have an infinitely better squad to work with than what Ole inherited, or even what Mourinho inherited. Ole’s done a fantastic job of rebuilding the club and setting us back on the right path. To question that is moronic. Ronaldo is simply the icing on the cake for the ongoing good feels that are now contagious at the club.
All that’s missing is the on-pitch success. But Ole and his team have bought more than enough time to get that right, and we’re currently sitting top of the league with 11 goals scored in 4 games. If all you can do is complain right now, then you should question why you even follow football in the first place.
If you look at club three or four years ago, it’s completely unrecognisable to what we have now. We’ve got genuine world-class players, interspersed and supported by players from the academy. And we’re going out to play fast football, exciting football, score goals. There’s a positive atmosphere surrounding the club and the future looks bright for us.
Whether that’s with Ole at the helm, time will tell. But one thing that’s for certain is that if it doesn’t work out with him, the next manager will have an infinitely better squad to work with than what Ole inherited, or even what Mourinho inherited. Ole’s done a fantastic job of rebuilding the club and setting us back on the right path. To question that is moronic. Ronaldo is simply the icing on the cake for the ongoing good feels that are now contagious at the club.
All that’s missing is the on-pitch success. But Ole and his team have bought more than enough time to get that right, and we’re currently sitting top of the league with 11 goals scored in 4 games. If all you can do is complain right now, then you should question why you even follow football in the first place.
Why people think criticism is negativity? When we point at the defects, we dont want to put a stick into the cogwheel, but I find it strange people get offended by criticizing the style of play we do. We are doing that because we have legitimate doubts of the capability of the manager to win us the league. Looking at the last three games in the league, it is true we got 7 of 9 points. But looking at these matches they are difficulty 1-2of 5. These matches should be dominated and the opponent should be suffocated. We did that in bits against Newcastle, but not the entire match and most importantly not the first ½. We were at a time in the game we needed to run for the 3 points again. Nobody is complaining about what Ole has built here, in fact I said it last year we had a team that should challenge for the league already last year. The complaints is about what we see with our eyes, eyeballing the performance as a whole makes me and other critical of Ole continue have the doubts about winning major trophies with him.
Compared to Jose or LVG era, I am really happy we got rid of them and will take Ole all the time instead of those two. But we are playing in a league where our opponents have excellent managers that can utilize their squad into winning major trophies.
My continuous criticism to him aside, he has built the squad and he earned the chance to try to win something this season (not small trophies) and I hope he does that because there is nothing more beautiful in football than watching a club you love win trophies with a legend in charge, it all falls into football romanticism. I wont be afraid to say I was totally wrong and his supporters believed in the right thing.
Why do people think your perfectly reasonable criticisms are negative? What on Earth could lead them to think this?
done it again.See above
Isn't there a thread where you are asking for the criticism to be in a less hyperbole manner? The user took the time to choose the right words for him, to point out, what he thinks, our issues are. And then you go, look at older posts to bring them in here? For what? Isn't that completely deflecting the discussion again? And especially in weird "look I am right, you are dumb, look at what you wrote over the last month"-way?
I get it, you do not like negativity and you have an issue with people having different opinions than you, but maybe, just maybe, ask yourself, if what you are doing is the best way to stop that cycle of shite. Look at this thread, I'd argue, since yesterday there are maybe 100 new posts, maybe 15-20 of them (from 5 or 6 posters) voice some criticism, the other 80 posts from 20 to 30 posters is the usual "I don't get these impatient supporters" and "these negativity makes me sick"-stuff. You don't like the way this thread is developing? Stop doing your part in it becoming the way it is.
I thought about this yesterday after the game, but even if Ole ends this season with no trophies and gets the sack, his legacy at the club (as a manager) will still be a good one in my eyes.
The key to Fergies success was how he created squads with a mix of young talent and experienced winners and it created a sort of continuity that made sure the club was succesfull year after year and never experienced those massive transitions.
Ole has done just that now. Having Ronaldo, Cavani and Varane in the dressing room and at Carrington will be incredibly important in the development for the likes of Greenwood, AWB, Sancho, Hannibal, Diallo, Pellestri etc
Not only do they have someone to look up too, but these players ooze profesionalism and winning attitude, and we are going to reap the benefits for it years and years from now
The key to Fergies success was how he created squads with a mix of young talent and experienced winners and it created a sort of continuity that made sure the club was succesfull year after year and never experienced those massive transitions.
Ole has done just that now. Having Ronaldo, Cavani and Varane in the dressing room and at Carrington will be incredibly important in the development for the likes of Greenwood, AWB, Sancho, Hannibal, Diallo, Pellestri etc
Not only do they have someone to look up too, but these players ooze profesionalism and winning attitude, and we are going to reap the benefits for it years and years from now
He has rebuilt the squad really well. Way better than Moyes, Van Gaal or Jose. The recruitment has been great.
I really hope we succeed with him, because I've no idea what manager would even take over in the event Ole seriously failed. Just hope our performance levels go up a bit, because I think we'll need that in order to win the league.
The point being you don’t get to a be a negative force spewing nonsense for months at a time and then say “why can people not take constructive criticism?”.
Yeah, your quote mining was well in order. And hilarious
five minutes after kick off? It was about thirty minutes after the final whistle.
Why don’t you tell the posters who regularly come in here calling Ole a clueless idiot to “stop the cycle of shite”?
I called them lunatics more than once. Apart from that, I try to ignore them because I'd like to not read the same stuff over and over again and the main contributor to this, as pointed out in the post you quoted, aren't the critics but the supporters, who jump in in numbers at every opportunity. I am serious, I don't like the over the top criticism and I think it is extremely childish, but a lot of the defenders are acting the same.
Perhaps everyone should just take a step back and wonder why this thread has moved forward at all, let alone multiple pages, after a match that really didnt offer anything new to discuss when it comes to the topic of Ole.
People get very offended when the word agenda is used, but that's all this thread is for the most part.
People get very offended when the word agenda is used, but that's all this thread is for the most part.
What does that make Fergie then? Or Pep for that matter? Imagine having some of the best players ever in your reserve squad just waiting for a game in the first team?
"You don't get to"? So I was right, you see yourself needed to defend the forum? Good to know.
Again, spend your time as you wish. I think, it is highly weird to complain about "negativity" when you are one of the most active "stirrer" of shit around here (hence the Username I guess). Posts like the one above, only lead to emotionalize the debate. But maybe you can create a new thread in a month time, complaining about the miserable twats who are so emotional.
That's fine and I agree with you. But are you prepared to engage with the legitimate balanced criticisms rather than just calling out the lunatics? Because that's the only way this debate moves forward.
I don't think anyone in here whines as much as you do. Lucky manager ? Who signed the players to bail him out ? No we didn't play well in the first half - did Chelsea ?
When it comes to the idiot stakes, one side of the debate in particular has proved to be far more destructive to any attempts at rational conversation taking place in this thread than the other. For these people, they don’t get to suddenly wipe the slate clean and be taken seriously when they’ve a recent history of being an idiot in this thread, and will in all likelihood revert back to form when we next drop points.
I get why people complain if we play poorly and draw or lose - but when you win 4-1 in the Premier League despite not playing great - sorry, I dont understand the complaints. When people are complaining about us winning by 3 goals on a bad day - then clearly OGS is doing a lot of things right.
No, but that’s because I’m not really interested in having the level of depth of conversation that would be required. I enjoy reading them, just not interested in contributing. That’s not how I choose to engage with football.
Yes. I am a much better poster than some of the people here and if I don’t point out their stupidity they might think they can get away with posting shit constantly.
I don’t get it either, it has to be agenda posting.
Newcastle crowded the box yesterday so the tactic was to shoot from distance, and it worked. When you’re playing against a professional mid table PL team you can expect them to have a shot or two, maybe even get a goal. The greatest sides in the history of world football conceded goals, there’s no fecking shame in that at all.
There’s a selection of people who are increasingly finding the most niche issues they can and it’s getting more and more boring by the day.
Ole might not be the one to lead us to titles but for fecks sake, we’re winning and we’re winning well for the time being. I didn’t hear anyone complaining when RVN was literally carrying us on the goal front.
the false equivalency between Ole in and Ole out is absurd given where we are now
Ole's a club legend, came in to a club in turmoil and free-fall, steadied the ship, got the confidence back, built an amazing squad, and has up top of the league and people believing we can challenge.. albeit it with some areas of concern
and we have people in here giving it "but the Ole inners are wa wa waaaaa"...
Ole's a club legend, came in to a club in turmoil and free-fall, steadied the ship, got the confidence back, built an amazing squad, and has up top of the league and people believing we can challenge.. albeit it with some areas of concern
and we have people in here giving it "but the Ole inners are wa wa waaaaa"...
I agree with you, OGS is doing a lot of things right. But one thing feels a tad questionable - you don't have to get other people, don't you? They maybe don't get you neither, so what meaning does this have. If you read the criticism, nobody complained about the result, but in parts about the performance. I don't agree with that for that game but why shouldn't it be possible to post on a discussion board?
Thanks for making it clear. I think, it is kind of sad but, to be honest, it confirms a few suspicions I had about you. And just for the record, in the threads I read and contribute in, I don't think, you are a "much better poster" at all.
Broke down the biggest low block we could possibly face this season and won 4-1
i understand taking a stance etc but surely Ole doubters can sit back and see how we develop before digging their heels in?
i understand taking a stance etc but surely Ole doubters can sit back and see how we develop before digging their heels in?
People are more than entitled to complain about a few individual performances, or our passing being slightly off, or the build up being too slow. We used to see lots of that under Fergie as well, go back and check the old threads.
The lines crossed when it’s “Our passing is shit, this team isn’t coached, we have a shit manager”. That’s what others take issue with, because it’s fecking nonsense and @Wumminator or anyone has the right to call those people out when they come into here pulling some of the best mental gymnastics you’ve ever seen.
Not an amazing performance, but it was a good, comfortable win in the end. When we need to play better, I have no doubt we will.
I respect that standpoint and I wouldn't want to deny anybody the right to express their opinion. But who is drawing the lines you mention? Why does the user have the right to call out people but others shouldn't have the right to express their opinions?
We are not talking about what is allowed and what isn't. Obviously anybody can do, whatever he/she wants. The discussion should be if we have to do what is allowed to do or if it is maybe better to change that behaviour. I understand, that many complain about negativity, but it is partly created in this thread by the behaviour we are seeing. As long as critics are being handled as they are, you can be sure, they will be back in force and numbers once a bad result happens. It is a self-fullfilling prophecy.
After the win against Wolves there was about twenty posts of shit before there was anyone questioning the negativity.
it’s not a self fulfilling prophecy. It’s a bunch of genuinely idiotic posters who post when they want and what they want despite driving others away. There’s a thread in the general forum of genuinely intelligent posters saying that they can’t be bothered posting anymore because of how bad it has got.
What I do, in a very comical way, is point out how idiotic these posts are. My posts are worth ten posts of a guy who comes in here asking why people can’t take constructive criticism after metaphorically rubbing shit over the walls of the forum for months.
I agree, as soon as we have one bad result there will be a bunch of ‘negativity’ flood this thread as always, it happened yesterday and we won 4-1. It’s kind of ironic that you’re taking issue with someone calling out people who’ve been overtly negative or posted bollocks while at the same time stating that people should be entitled to voice their opinions.
Everything is allowed, no one is gatekeeping, no one is saying what people are or are not allowed to do but if you make statements that are factually proven not to be true then you can expect other posters to give you shit for it, especially if you’ve been doing it for months. People are tired of it.
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