Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[DomesticTadpole]

Ironic. I’m fairly sure there was some context to those last 5 games…can’t remember what it was though.

We were going to win the EL or something.

 

[groovyalbert]

Absolutely nothing that has happened this season should make sacking a possibility right now.

3rd in the league, 2 points off the top, 1 point off first place in the CL.

Too much overreaction. He deserves the full season.

Load of rubbish.

Only reason we are where we are in the table is because (after today) Chelsea, Liverpool and City will have played each other twice in the opening few fixtures - meaning they had to share points around. Had any of those teams had our easy start, they would have dropped no more than a handful of points.

We are out of the League Cup, struggling in the easiest CL group I've ever seen us get, and struggling to get anything resembling decent football out of the best squad we've probably had in a decade.

Ole has done brilliantly to pull us out of the mire/assemble this squad, but it's looking like he's reached his ceiling as a manager. It would be such a shame to waste this squad on such an average manager.

 

[Sylar]

It is on the same spectrum as other major criticisms. With Ole, it's a full package. As a player, he was clinical and ruthless. As a manager, he is the very opposite. We see that on the pitch in conservative football and lack of proactivness.

Off the pitch, it is his demeanour. He wants to be mates with the players; he is not really able to inspire them or strike fear in them or make them the borderline cheats that every successful team needs to be. That is why this team always falls at the final hurdle. That is why neither Fred nor AWB went straight through that Everton player yesterday. There is no winning mentality.

How a manager projects himself on the touchline and in interviews makes a lot of difference. Remember when there was such a cheer at OT that one time LvG actually stood on the touchline? Attitude is a major part of competitive sport. That is why a team can be less or more than the sum of its parts. Everton are more than a sum; United are far less than its sum.

How can United fans not understand this when we had Fergie, the master of mind games, as our manager?

But its clearly not. Its only major if you choose it to be major.
Read it as a list, things you may want him to improve:

-His tactics
-His subs
-His use of players
-Him smiling less.
-His purchases

About him being not able to inspire, do you really believe that? Because that is a boolean question the way youve worded it. If he was unable to inspire them , at the very least, we wouldnt have had so many comeback wins under him, or top 3 and then top 2 finish.
United losing on penalties, are we really saying thats the difference between whether Ole can inspire them or not (because it looks like based on your post, if DDG scores his penalty and saves the opposition goalkeepers penalty, that changes it to him being able to inspire...)

The issue here is people are adding something that the manager has been doing for years (and not as a manager becuase its a character trait)
The other things are not the same, because the others can be controlled and something you can judge through metrics.

People wanting Ole to smile less, or for Jose to be less dour, or for LVG to stand on the touchline, these dont and will never be part of how you judge a manager (when there are bigger things to look at).
The smiling is only mentioned because of frustration of everything else and as a way to rant further on a point that ultimately doesnt matter.

 

[Sylar]

Load of rubbish.

Only reason we are where we are in the table is because (after today) Chelsea, Liverpool and City will have played each other twice in the opening few fixtures - meaning they had to share points around. Had any of those teams had our easy start, they would have dropped no more than a handful of points.

We are out of the League Cup, struggling in the easiest CL group I've ever seen us get, and struggling to get anything resembling decent football out of the best squad we've probably had in a decade.

Ole has done brilliantly to pull us out of the mire/assemble this squad, but it's looking like he's reached his ceiling as a manager. It would be such a shame to waste this squad on such an average manager.

No board is sacking the manager now by looking at whats happened this season, not even ruthless Chelsea.

 

[groovyalbert]

No board is sacking the manager now by looking at whats happened this season, not even ruthless Chelsea.

Maybe not this minute, but a few more games of the same and things should get uncomfortable for Ole

 

[hobbers]

Absolutely nothing that has happened this season should make sacking a possibility right now.

3rd in the league, 2 points off the top, 1 point off first place in the CL.

Too much overreaction. He deserves the full season.

He doesn't deserve anything more than the next game.

If we're still 2 points off the top at Christmas we can talk again. I suspect it will be more like 12 off.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Most fans don't shit their pants after 7 games of the season.

We’ve actually played 10 games, got beaten by West Ham & Young Boys, lucked out to feck vs. Villareal and have managed one decent performance out of those 10 games.
It was as easy a start to the season as you could hope.

Add to that, for many people, it’s 3.5 years of not being able to find any consistency whatsoever, of not having a defined style of play, and of a shit load of money spent.

Yes it’s too early in this current season to sack, absolutely, but too early to have massive doubts considering what we’ve seen? God no. Most of us knew we finished on a ridiculously low points total for second last season, a position we gained due to Lampard being Chelsea’s manager & Liverpool losing VVD. This season with Tuchel and Liverpool on song again, we can’t afford to keep being so incredibly inconsistent.

 

[Wumminator]

Really poor fortnight for united there. The month of November is brutal so he needs some much needed wins fast now to keep a positive atmosphere.

 

[caid]

Genuine question, why should a squad with Pogba, Lukaku, Rashford, Shaw, De Gea, Lindelof, Martial, a young Greenwood, Matic, Fred, McTominay take ‘years to rebuild’? We’ve added to this squad in the last few years [& I don’t rate a number of the players above] but the bulk of our current squad were in situ. Yes the squad is better, undoubtedly, but with a better squad when is it ok to expect better results?

I dont rate most of the players you listed off. Too many of them had a crap attitude and we absolutely needed to be rid of some, I think if it had been easier to sell players in recent years we probably would have sold even more of them. Shaw has changed my mind and I dont think i've ever really lost faith in Rashford. Some are fine as cover, lindelof for instance, but they were playing every week without fail and not good enough for that. Some still aren't good enough and need replacing.
He did well to get good form from the likes of Matic, Fred and Martial but they were never going to be first team players in a title winning team (martial had me fooled for a time).
Greenwood has taken years to get to where he is and shouldn't be starting every week in a title winning team, not against the standard were competing against.
The rebuild is done, we still need a dm but theres too much talent elsewhere for it to be a real obstacle. Its time for better results.

 

[Green_Red]

We’re trying to implement a forward thinking, front foot style of play we can’t rely on counter attack forever not if we are going to improve and that will take a little time to adjust to as we are seeing. The football seems a little disjointed but I guarantee we will come together and blast teams to shreds before long.

Yea, let's just accept the shite football we have to watch until the process is complete. We only have to pay £45 quid a ticket, who are we to complain when a manager is too stubborn to drop a midfield pair that add nothing to our overall style of play. Let's just suck it up and see how long this fecking process lasts.

 

[Deery]

Yea, let's just accept the shite football we have to watch until the process is complete. We only have to pay £45 quid a ticket, who are we to complain when a manager is too stubborn to drop a midfield pair that add nothing to our overall style of play. Let's just suck it up and see how long this fecking process lasts.

You can’t just click your fingers and play a new style of football just perfect, if we went back to play defensive/counter we will not win a league anyway…

 

[Green_Red]

You can’t just click your fingers and play a new style of football just perfect, if we went back to play defensive/counter we will not win a league anyway…

I can't just click my fingers and magic the money I pay to watch this team from thin air either.

We are playing exactly the same way we played last year but instead of playing the right winger he bought to fill that gap he insists on playing a CF on the RW and benching the most talented young RW in world football. Instead of playing a CM in CM he insists on putting him on the LW... We play TWO DMs every week and we have conceded in all bit one game this season... how the feck is that a process? That is naivety and cluelessness.

Instead of playing a CM that won his home league and got to a CL semi-final he continues to play Fred who has cost us too many times. Where is the sense in that? Don't say process, tell us, where is the sense in playing Fred over a player who won his domestic league and played in a CL semi-final? Has Fred ever played in a CL semi-final? No, because he isn't good enough and we end up in the EL.

 

[hobbers]

Dropping your best goalscorer and best assist creator at the same time in a crucial home fixture with the international break coming up...

Don't know if it's been said enough how awful Ole has proven to be over the last 3 years when it comes to rotating. He's as bad at managing the squad for results and fitness as he is at in-game stuff.

 

[Deery]

I can't just click my fingers and magic the money I pay to watch this team from thin air either.

We are playing exactly the same way we played last year but instead of playing the right winger he bought to fill that gap he insists on playing a CF on the RW and benching the most talented young RW in world football. Instead of playing a CM in CM he insists on putting him on the LW... We play TWO DMs every week and we have conceded in all bit one game this season... how the feck is that a process? That is naivety and cluelessness.

They aren’t being deployed as DM though they are playing a more attacking mindset like 2 box-box players, they are not sitting like they have done before. He’s trying to implement a more attacking style that’s why the gaps in midfield playing Pogba isn’t going to change anything and Sancho I don’t believe is better than Greenwood on the right.

If we try and play the same football as last season we don’t win squat we needed to try something new and unfortunately it doesn’t work straight away.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I can't just click my fingers and magic the money I pay to watch this team from thin air either.

We are playing exactly the same way we played last year but instead of playing the right winger he bought to fill that gap he insists on playing a CF on the RW and benching the most talented young RW in world football. Instead of playing a CM in CM he insists on putting him on the LW... We play TWO DMs every week and we have conceded in all bit one game this season... how the feck is that a process? That is naivety and cluelessness.

Instead of playing a CM that won his home league and got to a CL semi-final he continues to play Fred who has cost us too many times. Where is the sense in that? Don't say process, tell us, where is the sense in playing Fred over a player who won his domestic league and played in a CL semi-final? Has Fred ever played in a CL semi-final? No, because he isn't good enough and we end up in the EL.

Well said.

 

[red4ever 79]

I can't just click my fingers and magic the money I pay to watch this team from thin air either.

We are playing exactly the same way we played last year but instead of playing the right winger he bought to fill that gap he insists on playing a CF on the RW and benching the most talented young RW in world football. Instead of playing a CM in CM he insists on putting him on the LW... We play TWO DMs every week and we have conceded in all bit one game this season... how the feck is that a process? That is naivety and cluelessness.

Instead of playing a CM that won his home league and got to a CL semi-final he continues to play Fred who has cost us too many times. Where is the sense in that? Don't say process, tell us, where is the sense in playing Fred over a player who won his domestic league and played in a CL semi-final? Has Fred ever played in a CL semi-final? No, because he isn't good enough and we end up in the EL.

Fully agree with everything you say. I ask the same questions. Even his transfers piss me off
40m DVB doesn't play him
30m Diallo - apparantely was tearing it up in training when we signed him, tried to loan him out
70M in the best young RW in Europe, doesn't play him on the right

 

[UnofficialDevil]

They aren’t being deployed as DM though they are playing a more attacking mindset like 2 box-box players, they are not sitting like they have done before. He’s trying to implement a more attacking style that’s why the gaps in midfield playing Pogba isn’t going to change anything and Sancho I don’t believe is better than Greenwood on the right.

If we try and play the same football as last season we don’t win squat we needed to try something new and unfortunately it doesn’t work straight away.

We still play a back 6 in every single game, and we haven't even played against a "big" team yet.

 

[Deery]

So @Green_Red your real gripe is with DVDB a player that hasn’t even shown a thing since arriving here? Cool!

 

[Deery]

We still play a back 6 in every single game, and we haven't even played against a "big" team yet.

It’s yet to be seen how we play against a top side maybe we go back to form or maybe we play a more attacking style so I can’t comment on that.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Another great post @TheRedDevil'sAdvocate - I really enjoy your contributions to the forum.

From my point of view I love nothing more than fast, direct football. First time passes from midfield releasing forwards running at pace and bearing down on goal. The likes of Rashford in full flight is a thing of beauty. As aesthetically pleasing as Barca (of old) and City are, I find the football quite boring. Don't get me wrong, its clever and it's effective (obviously). We have shown during Ole's tenure that when the game suits we can be devastating. But now I think teams are wise to us and Ole doesn't have an answer. The plan B ,if you like. I also think the players have started to lose confidence in his approach, and it's showing on the pitch with the performances, stretching back to the final games of last season into this one. We are regressing and games these days are hard to watch, no clear reaction to bad results which I think is damning.

So we need a new approach. Ole has tried to bring back the football from "days of yore", but it's not happening. The good news is this squad is capable of adapting (they are good players and great in some cases) to another manager's ideas. I'd like to keep the fast direct football, but also be able to keep the ball when we need to - a kind of hybrid approach. But please coach us to defend properly, as every team seems to find it embarrassingly easy to create chances against us. I don't think we should be spending any more with Ole in charge. It's time for a change of manager.

Thank you and @Eddy_JukeZ for the kind words.

I agree with most of this. To tell you the truth, after almost a decade, i'm just starving for some well-functioning football. I would honestly take a couple of seasons of a simple and not so pleasing to the eye style, if it meant that we would do really well the 2-3 things the manager has in his mind. Something similar to Ranieri's spell at Leicester, even without the stardust of a PL trophy. Just to know that when i sit to watch my team, i'll know what to expect from the players on the pitch. Believe it or not, this is the thing i miss the most from the SAF era: The serenity that comes from knowing that, even if the performance will suck, what i'll watch will "make sense" from a footballing perspective.

But i don't think it's the absence of a plan B that hurts us. If there's one thing that separates Solskjaer from his predecessors, that thing would be his remarkable ability to come up trumps when he's with his back to the wall. The question marks begin to rise when you start to ask yourself why do we find ourselves in such a position so often? At the beginning of a manager's tenure, you can put the blame on the lack of options. But when the same issues persist, after nearly 3 years and several millions spent, the manager must have something to show for other than a convoluted mess of tactics and players' roles.

You see, Plan A is the problem. To start considering add-ons to your main strategy, said strategy has to be well-functioning. Otherwise, how do you make improvements on something that's not working well? This is the reason why i've always believed that the statistical comparisons to Klopp (mainly) and SAF and the posting of form tables (that go through seasons) are a tad pointless. Klopp, as the latest example, indeed faced a few bumps on the road at Anfield. He didn't just snap his fingers and turned Liverpool into one of the best sides in Europe. But he always went back to the drawing board to work on the failures, not on his principals. And little by little, he got where he wanted. Then you have us: Solslkjaer got the permanent by doing one thing. He stormed through the league in project re-start by doing another. Last season, he finished second again by altering the main approach. Although we still have to see (see, patience) the team with Rashford and Sancho fully integrated into the side, it seems that we're looking, yet again, to find a short-term tactical solution that will help us get through the season.

We are not under-coached, as some suggest. Solskjaer has stood toe to toe with Pep on several occasions. Our issues stem from the fact that we are still as good as our opponents allow us to be. At the end of the day, Pep will always allow us space in-behind because that's one of the principles (high-line, possession football) that makes him so successful. And we'll seize an opportunity (by abandoning any notion of press, our tendency to push players up on the field) that will not be available to us in 95% of our games. We'll win the day, but Pep will win the season. We are underwhelming, even when we are grinding out results and epic last-minute wins. And when we start to look convincing, everything falls apart when the rest of the PL adjusts to our game-plan.

In this sense, my post was more philosophical. Assuming we sign Rice/Phillips and Haaland and we double down on Solskjaer's direct approach, where would that get us? We can't create much for a player with Ronaldo's movement and poacher instincts. What if a new manager comes in and says "OK, the basis is there but i want 3-4 starters". Keep in mind, that most up and coming managers out there are the "mix and match" type you described in your post. I'm sure as hell that, let's say Ten Hag, will not settle for Phillips-Rice-McFred in the midfield. The Dutch 433/343 leaves little room for players like Bruno, too. What do we do then? Say no, and keep looking for the "perfect match"? I guess we could, but this looks depressingly like a club that's willingly painting itself into a corner in the hope of finding the next SAF. One thing that irritates me about the way we operate as a club is that we seem to believe that things will simply fall into place because we want them to. Leave aside for a moment that the arrogant and toxic Mourinho wanted to bring his mate Perisic to the club. He warned us that Rashford and Martial in the same line-up are not compatible. Here we are now, not knowing what to do with Martial. Who's assessing these things at United? Imagine you are the man who has to reach deep into his pocket every summer: The manager comes in and says that he doesn't want his 80-90 million Euro forward. Fine, you say, and what do you want? I want this first-team player on 1/4 million per week. Fast-forward a year and a half later, said first-teamer isn't doing well and you offer your manager two veterans on about 2/3 of a million p/w on wages (on top of paying the other one). Still the team struggles to create good chances. Next summer, your manager comes to you and asks you to fork out another 150 million for Haaland. What will you say? Are we happy with that because the manager knows what's best for the club? If this doesn't work either, how more destructive going with the Ten Hag example would have been? Maybe we should not leave these decisions to a single person?

 

[caid]

Thank you and @Eddy_JukeZ for the kind words.

I agree with most of this. To tell you the truth, after almost a decade, i'm just starving for some well-functioning football. I would honestly take a couple of seasons of a simple and not so pleasing to the eye style, if it meant that we would do really well the 2-3 things the manager has in his mind. Something similar to Ranieri's spell at Leicester, even without the stardust of a PL trophy. Just to know that when i sit to watch my team, i'll know what to expect from the players on the pitch. Believe it or not, this is the thing i miss the most from the SAF era: The serenity that comes from knowing that, even if the performance will suck, what i'll watch will "make sense" from a footballing perspective.

But i don't think it's the absence of a plan B that hurts us. If there's one thing that separates Solskjaer from his predecessors, that thing would be his remarkable ability to come up trumps when he's with his back to the wall. The question marks begin to rise when you start to ask yourself why do we find ourselves in such a position so often? At the beginning of a manager's tenure, you can put the blame on the lack of options. But when the same issues persist, after nearly 3 years and several millions spent, the manager must have something to show for other than a convoluted mess of tactics and players' roles.

You see, Plan A is the problem. To start considering add-ons to your main strategy, said strategy has to be well-functioning. Otherwise, how do you make improvements to something that's not working well? This is the reason why i've always believed that the statistical comparisons to Klopp (mainly) and SAF and the posting of form tables (that go through seasons) are a tad pointless. Klopp, as the latest example, indeed faced a few bumps on the road at Anfield. He didn't just snap his fingers and turned Liverpool into one of the best sides in Europe. But he always went back to the drawing board to work on the failures, not on his principals. And little by little, he got where he wanted. Then you have us: Solslkjaer got the permanent by doing one thing. He stormed through the league in project re-start by doing another. Last season, he finished second again by altering the main approach. Although we still have to see (see, patience) the team with Rashford and Sancho fully integrated into the side, it seems that we're looking, yet again, to find a short-term tactical solution that will help us get through the season.

We are not under-coached, as some suggest. Solskjaer has stood toe to toe with Pep on several occasions. Our issues stem from the fact that we are still as good as our opponents allow us to be. At the end of the day, Pep will always allow us space in-behind because that's one of the principles (high-line, possession football) that makes him so successful. And we'll seize an opportunity (by abandoning any notion of press, our tendency to push players up on the field) that will not be available to us in 95% of our games. We'll win the day, but Pep will win the season. We are underwhelming, even when we are grinding out results and epic last-minute wins. And when we start to look convincing, everything falls apart when the rest of the PL adjusts to our game-plan.

In this sense, my post was more philosophical. Assuming we sign Rice/Phillips and Haaland and we double down on Solskjaer's direct approach, where would that get us? We can't create much for a player with Ronaldo's movement and poacher instincts. What if a new manager comes in and says "OK, the basis is there but i want 3-4 starters". Keep in mind, that most up and coming managers out there are the "mix and match" type you described in your post. I'm sure as hell that, let's say Ten Hag, will not settle for Phillips-Rice-McFred in the midfield. The Dutch 433/343 leaves little room for players like Bruno, too. What do we do then? Say no, and keep looking for the "perfect match"? I guess we could, but this looks depressingly like a club that's willingly painting itself into a corner in the hope of finding the next SAF. One thing that irritates me about the way we operate as a club is that we seem to believe that things will simply fall into place because we want them to. Leave aside for a moment that the arrogant and toxic Mourinho wanted to bring his mate Perisic to the club. He warned us that Rashford and Martial in the same line-up are not compatible. Here we are now, not knowing what to do with Martial. Who's assessing these things at United? Imagine you are the man who has to reach deep into his pocket every summer: The manager comes in and says that he doesn't want his 80-90 million Euro forward. Fine, you say, and what do you want? I want this first-team player on 1/4 million per week. Fast-forward a year and a half later, said first-teamer isn't doing well and you offer your manager two veterans on about 2/3 of a million p/w on wages (on top of paying the other one). Still the team struggles to create good chances. Next summer, your manager comes to you and asks you to fork out another 150 million for Haaland. What will you say? Are we happy with that because the manager knows what's best for the club? If this doesn't work either, how more destructive going with the Ten Hag example would have been? Maybe we should not leave these decisions to a single person?

Thats a good post.
I think we had a plan A that worked initially - outworking the opposition. Pulling that off with James, Lingard, Pereirra, Fred and McTominay made sense and worked quite well but I dont think it even lasted till the end of that first season when Matic and Pogba came into the team and Martials workrate fell off as fatigue set in. We haven't really updated our approach since and haven't had an obvious method to our play since. We spent most of last season chopping and changing and never really found a balance or coherence to the team and thats continued onto this season. I think if you asked people whats our best selection you'd get hundred of wildly different answers most of which haven't been tried previously and thats a really bad sign

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Thank you and @Eddy_JukeZ for the kind words.

I agree with most of this. To tell you the truth, after almost a decade, i'm just starving for some well-functioning football. I would honestly take a couple of seasons of a simple and not so pleasing to the eye style, if it meant that we would do really well the 2-3 things the manager has in his mind. Something similar to Ranieri's spell at Leicester, even without the stardust of a PL trophy. Just to know that when i sit to watch my team, i'll know what to expect from the players on the pitch. Believe it or not, this is the thing i miss the most from the SAF era: The serenity that comes from knowing that, even if the performance will suck, what i'll watch will "make sense" from a footballing perspective.

But i don't think it's the absence of a plan B that hurts us. If there's one thing that separates Solskjaer from his predecessors, that thing would be his remarkable ability to come up trumps when he's with his back to the wall. The question marks begin to rise when you start to ask yourself why do we find ourselves in such a position so often? At the beginning of a manager's tenure, you can put the blame on the lack of options. But when the same issues persist, after nearly 3 years and several millions spent, the manager must have something to show for other than a convoluted mess of tactics and players' roles.

You see, Plan A is the problem. To start considering add-ons to your main strategy, said strategy has to be well-functioning. Otherwise, how do you make improvements to something that's not working well? This is the reason why i've always believed that the statistical comparisons to Klopp (mainly) and SAF and the posting of form tables (that go through seasons) are a tad pointless. Klopp, as the latest example, indeed faced a few bumps on the road at Anfield. He didn't just snap his fingers and turned Liverpool into one of the best sides in Europe. But he always went back to the drawing board to work on the failures, not on his principals. And little by little, he got where he wanted. Then you have us: Solslkjaer got the permanent by doing one thing. He stormed through the league in project re-start by doing another. Last season, he finished second again by altering the main approach. Although we still have to see (see, patience) the team with Rashford and Sancho fully integrated into the side, it seems that we're looking, yet again, to find a short-term tactical solution that will help us get through the season.

We are not under-coached, as some suggest. Solskjaer has stood toe to toe with Pep on several occasions. Our issues stem from the fact that we are still as good as our opponents allow us to be. At the end of the day, Pep will always allow us space in-behind because that's one of the principles (high-line, possession football) that makes him so successful. And we'll seize an opportunity (by abandoning any notion of press, our tendency to push players up on the field) that will not be available to us in 95% of our games. We'll win the day, but Pep will win the season. We are underwhelming, even when we are grinding out results and epic last-minute wins. And when we start to look convincing, everything falls apart when the rest of the PL adjusts to our game-plan.

In this sense, my post was more philosophical. Assuming we sign Rice/Phillips and Haaland and we double down on Solskjaer's direct approach, where would that get us? We can't create much for a player with Ronaldo's movement and poacher instincts. What if a new manager comes in and says "OK, the basis is there but i want 3-4 starters". Keep in mind, that most up and coming managers out there are the "mix and match" type you described in your post. I'm sure as hell that, let's say Ten Hag, will not settle for Phillips-Rice-McFred in the midfield. The Dutch 433/343 leaves little room for players like Bruno, too. What do we do then? Say no, and keep looking for the "perfect match"? I guess we could, but this looks depressingly like a club that's willingly painting itself into a corner in the hope of finding the next SAF. One thing that irritates me about the way we operate as a club is that we seem to believe that things will simply fall into place because we want them to. Leave aside for a moment that the arrogant and toxic Mourinho wanted to bring his mate Perisic to the club. He warned us that Rashford and Martial in the same line-up are not compatible. Here we are now, not knowing what to do with Martial. Who's assessing these things at United? Imagine you are the man who has to reach deep into his pocket every summer: The manager comes in and says that he doesn't want his 80-90 million Euro forward. Fine, you say, and what do you want? I want this first-team player on 1/4 million per week. Fast-forward a year and a half later, said first-teamer isn't doing well and you offer your manager two veterans on about 2/3 of a million p/w on wages (on top of paying the other one). Still the team struggles to create good chances. Next summer, your manager comes to you and asks you to fork out another 150 million for Haaland. What will you say? Are we happy with that because the manager knows what's best for the club? If this doesn't work either, how more destructive going with the Ten Hag example would have been? Maybe we should not leave these decisions to a single person?

Good post. Really good.

Only thing I take exception to is the under-coached part, the fact that he’s stood ‘toe-to-toe’ with Peps approach whilst continuing to falter in games we’re expected to dominate points to his inability to coach well for me. We tend to sit back against Peps side & look to Rashford/Martial to do something on the counter - it’s not particularly creative but in fairness has been effective.

You’re bang on that we’re only ever as good as the opposition allows though, I only think that reinforces how poorly coached we are. We enter the field with a better man for man 11 in most games yet it’s the oppositions tactics that dictate the game mostly. We keep trying to replicate the SAF period without the main ingredient, SAF - sentimentality aside, no one can make an argument based on what’s happened on the pitch for OgS.

 

[flappyjay]

Do you even think we work on any of our weaknesses? Slow start every game, starting to play only after conceding, McFred.

There's no evidence that we address any of that in training. All comes down to the manager. Ole has to go.

His entire coaching team bar Mike Philan are learning on the job. This is happening in one of the biggest clubs in the world.

 

[Sylar]

Maybe not this minute, but a few more games of the same and things should get uncomfortable for Ole

Do you believe that? Weve seen with moyes and lvg when things were worse how long it took to pull the trigger. Jose was sacked only when top4 looked impossible after the loss to Liverpool

 

[caid]

Good post. Really good.

Only thing I take exception to is the under-coached part, the fact that he’s stood ‘toe-to-toe’ with Peps approach whilst continuing to falter in games we’re expected to dominate points to his inability to coach well for me. We tend to sit back against Peps side & look to Rashford/Martial to do something on the counter - it’s not particularly creative but in fairness has been effective.

You’re bang on that we’re only ever as good as the opposition allows though, I only think that reinforces how poorly coached we are. We enter the field with a better man for man 11 in most games yet it’s the oppositions tactics that dictate the game mostly. We keep trying to replicate the SAF period without the main ingredient, SAF - sentimentality aside, no one can make an argument based on what’s happened on the pitch for OgS.

I think in ways thats not always helpful. Theres no coherence to the selection. Theres talk in another thread of next manager and people asking what kind of coach we should be looking to next. We cant really play possession football - Pogba, Bruno, Rashford are all very direct. Fred is very inconsistent. We cant play high press with Ronaldo - theres others not really suited to it but that would be the primary obstacle. I'm sure theres other less extreme examples of tactics but it feels like its quite hard to put out a selection that doesn't have a serious weaknesses in one area or another to exploit. And it feels like the number of ways to hurt the opposition is too limited for there not to be a really obvious way too defend against and limit the damage of (say sitting back and loading the box up when Martial / Rashford are our strikers).

 

[groovyalbert]

Do you believe that? Weve seen with moyes and lvg when things were worse how long it took to pull the trigger. Jose was sacked only when top4 looked impossible after the loss to Liverpool

Honestly, no. I think we'll probably waste this season away.

Reckon we could lose a good chunk of this squad in the summer too.

 

[Sylar]

Honestly, no. I think we'll probably waste this season away.

Reckon we could lose a good chunk of this squad in the summer too.

I think theres one thing in play here, and the main thing is the objectives of the board.

If were out the title race by December, but still get top 4, then I think the board will be happy (especially if we progress from the CL group stages and into the knockouts)

The problem of course is the players and their ambition and their happiness. Id like to believe both Ole and the players all want to win trophies, and compete for the biggest trophies.

I do worry that were in a Chelsea/Lampard sitution. However the thing with Chelsea is, they got rid of Lampard as there was a clear manager available + Chelsea/Lampard results had them around 10th or so around December.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

No board is sacking the manager now by looking at whats happened this season, not even ruthless Chelsea.

Bayern did with both Ancelotti and Kovac.

 

[Sviken]

No board is sacking the manager now by looking at whats happened this season, not even ruthless Chelsea.

Chelsea wouldn't have given him a 3 years contract in the firs place. I mean, Roman sacked a manager that won him the CL. If Ole did that, we'd probably give him a guaranteed lifetime contract.

 

[Sylar]

Bayern did with both Ancelotti and Kovac.

Bayern are in a one team league, no matter how much any German posters here deny it. We might see the odd Dortmund or other team challenge, but its a different situation.
Same with PSG in France.

And whilst it is true city have won 3 of the last 4, its also no surprise when Chelsea or Liverpool won it. Or that United should be challenging but are far behind.

I get your point, but again, this is based on the boards targets. Much like Madrid, they sacked a few managers after winning 'just' the league title. All this talk of 'lets sack Ole' is unrealistic

Chelsea wouldn't have given him a 3 years contract in the firs place. I mean, Roman sacked a manager that won him the CL. If Ole did that, we'd probably give him a guaranteed lifetime contract.

Well, Roman didnt sack a manager right after he won the CL. He sacked him the season after when they looked like going out of the CL group stages and were struggling in the league. Roman would not have sacked DiMatteo had Chelsea been in the same position United are now.

 

[BlueHaze]

@TheRedDevil'sAdvocate Good post, I liked reading that one.

 

[1988]

We've been largely inconsistent during his time here and our good patches never really comes down to us being tactical superior but more our players playing with confidence and a desire. We won't progress any further with Solskjær. He'll probably get this entire season regardless of our performances and results but after this season we'll need someone who can take us further levels. If the club doesn't replace him, they're setting us up for another decade of mediocracy. We have a team that can challenge now and if this fails, it's gonna take a hard, hard reset.. again.

 

[BlueHaze]

That would be the case if he took over last December or the summer just gone.

He has had so much time. And it was always that we needed the players for his system. And now we are 2 months into the season with the best squad we have had since 2008 and he is still dropping these clangers more often than he isn't. The evidence is there. It's not because he needs better players. It's because he is tactically inept at this level.

The performances vs Southampton, Villa, Wolves, West Ham (cup), Young Boys, Villarreal and now Everton, have been absolutely dire. That's 70% of the season so far that we have been pure and utter muck.

In the 30% of good - Leeds play right into our hands. Newcastle we wobbled but the Ronaldo effect dragged us over the line. And West Ham away we were a Dave save from a very different resut in a game we should have been home and hosed in.

Giving him the season is wasting a year of arguabpy a 1-3 year window to win with the best squad we have had in years. This is big boy stuff now. A distant 2nd isnt good enough anymore. Expectations are back where they are supposed to be, so pressure is relative.

Well said! Nothing but the truth. That he's not been given enough time is no longer an excuse nor that he has not been backed enough. Just as you said the pressure is now relative and after this season is done the evidence will be there for even his biggest defenders that he never was good enough.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Bayern are in a one team league, no matter how much any German posters here deny it. We might see the odd Dortmund or other team challenge, but its a different situation.
Same with PSG in France.

And whilst it is true city have won 3 of the last 4, its also no surprise when Chelsea or Liverpool won it. Or that United should be challenging but are far behind.

I get your point, but again, this is based on the boards targets. Much like Madrid, they sacked a few managers after winning 'just' the league title. All this talk of 'lets sack Ole' is unrealistic

I agree that it's unlikely, because our board doesn't have the balls to act quickly before things unravel. Which is why we wasted seasons on lost cause before pulling the trigger.

And yes, it's about targets. Bayern's board doesnt accept mediocrity or underperformance. Ancelotti was sacked a mere 4 games into the league season, Kovac 10 games in when they sat 4th on the table. They won doubles and trebles and cemented their grip domestically because they never allow the team to go into a rut, learning their lesson after being left in the wilderness in the mid-00s to early 10s when with the same difference in resources, they let team like Bremen, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg and Dortmund pipped them to the title. We would do well to adopt that mindset.

 

[dirkey]

So @Green_Red your real gripe is with DVDB a player that hasn’t even shown a thing since arriving here? Cool!

Neither has Fred, but he plays nearly every week.

Actually, that's not true. He's shown plenty. He's shown he's nowhere near good enough.

Vdb hasn't been given the chance. And now ole is gonna do the same to sancho, suck all his confidence out.

 

[Deery]

Neither has Fred, but he plays nearly every week.

Actually, that's not true. He's shown plenty. He's shown he's nowhere near good enough.

Vdb hasn't been given the chance. And now ole is gonna do the same to sancho, suck all his confidence out.

Short memory Fred was our best player for a long period of time a while back.

 

[Giggsy13]

Look Ole has his flaws but all he needs is time and more coaches. Set pieces a problem? No worries we hired a set piece coach. Don’t know enough about tactical fouling, we have a solution, tactical foul coach. Are making substations hard, well guess what, substation coach. Are young, technically gifted Dutch players difficult to understand, hire Ruud as Dutch coach. Ole NEEDS TIME, more coaches and more importantly, more backing from the owners to throw money at the problem. You can’t honestly expect him to get the best out of this squad can you!? Did I say more coaches, that too, get more coaches.

 

[dirkey]

Short memory Fred was our best player for a long period of time a while back.

He really wasn't. He runs around a lot. He can't pass. He's not even that great in the tackle.

 

[Micky Targaryen]

Of course the last two league games have been disappointing. But we have a good record against our rivals under Ole. I relish watching the big games and there's nothing to suggest we need to be fearful of the upcoming fixtures, it's a good thing for us really.

We've seen it before when we've hit some bad form and Ole's under pressure but each time before we've bounced back and gone on a run.

If only we had a league consisting on only big 4 so we can consistently challenge for the big 4 trophy. I don’t think I need to remind you on our record against bottom half teams.

Aren’t you sick of watching Ole digging a hole for himself just to see him pluck a good result just when his back is against the wall? But yeah just keep scrapping the barrel mate.

 

[hobbers]

Look Ole has his flaws but all he needs is time and more coaches. Set pieces a problem? No worries we hired a set piece coach. Don’t know enough about tactical fouling, we have a solution, tactical foul coach. Are making substations hard, well guess what, substation coach. Are young, technically gifted Dutch players difficult to understand, hire Ruud as Dutch coach. Ole NEEDS TIME, more coaches and more importantly, more backing from the owners to throw money at the problem. You can’t honestly expect him to get the best out of this squad can you!? Did I say more coaches, that too, get more coaches.

Signing a midfielder is a problem? Hire a midfield signing coach.
Can't rotate your team without throwing away points? Here's a team rotation strategist.