Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Rhyme Animal

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Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
Forget Ole vs Rodgers for a minute and whether it's excuses or not. Do you believe we can put out a better back 4 than Leicester with a better DM in front than Ndidi? Is Rashford a better PL striker than Vardy right now?
Our squad, overall is better than Foxes. Cmon, lets not be silly now.

If you think Foxes have a better squad then you're essentially saying Mourinho achieved miracles winning a European trophy, League Cup and 2nd finish with largely this squad.

Vardy is better than Rashford, but then Rashford isn't even the best CF at Utd ffs. That's on the manager who keeps starting him.

Our squad does need improvement - and there are positions that other teams have better over us, but cmon, Rodgers has a squad that's got less talent in it than Oles, and he's actually put his identity over their footy in 3 months.

It must concern you, slightly as a Utd fan.
 

ayushreddevil9

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>“He deserves a couple transfer windows”
>”He deserves to bring his own players/build his squad”

this man signed 19 players at Cardiff and still got them relegated. 19.
So what do you want? Sack him now?
 

GM K

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It is hard for me to accept so soon that Ole is not capable of steering this club to the next level. It's too early to conclude he is not good enough. If the club fires him, we'll be making the same old mistakes.

He should be backed, not just financially but fully. A good director of football should be hired.
 

Bojan11

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That’s just a ridiculous arguement to be honest. Ranieri won the league with Leicester then 2 years later got Fulham relegated.

Cardiff were rubbish.

we knew the players weren’t good enough under Jose, that hasn’t changed. What we do know now is ole will give 100% and get rid of the daydreamers. Get the work ethic and desire back and then we can think about a new fancy tactical coach. We need the basics back.
Cardiff were rubbish. But he bought 19 players and made them worse. They had a better chance of surviving if they had kept that cnut Malkay in charge.

Also no idea why you bringing Ranieri into it. He’s always been a hot and cold manager. That Leicester win was just a one off in his career.
 

Bojan11

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It is hard for me to accept so soon that Ole is not capable of steering this club to the next level. It's too early to conclude he is not good enough. If the club fires him, we'll be making the same old mistakes.

He should be backed, not just financially but fully. A good director of football should be hired.
That’s the thing.

I just don’t trust Ole to identify the right players for us. Where as I would have more confidence if we had someone behind him rather than Mike Phelan or some ex Manchester United player.
 

Adam-Utd

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Cardiff were rubbish. But he bought 19 players and made them worse. They had a better chance of surviving if they had kept that cnut Malkay in charge.

Also no idea why you bringing Ranieri into it. He’s always been a hot and cold manager. That Leicester win was just a one off in his career.
Because it just proves you can have a good team and do well, a bad team and be bad.

Solskjær was quite green back then and obviously expected it to be easier - he’s talked a lot and said he got it wrong. People learn and improve, he’s still young himself.

We’ve tried the experienced route with mourinho and LVG, it’s worth giving somebody who actually loves the club a chance. If we can get that first few games back into the players we’ll have a good season.
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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Leicester were in terms of performances playing quite well under Puel and just had a lot of bad results that went against the run of play. It isn't just due to a managerial change. They have a very strong and balanced squad with loads of potential as well. That's nothing to do with just Rodgers taking over, but also because of the players they have. Their squad is far more balanced then ours is.

We finished 2nd last season, yes, but our performances really didn't deserve 2nd. I know many on here don't like it, but "xG" is literally used to rate teams based on performances and see if there are discrepancies from just good runs of form due to clinical/wasteful finishing. Last season we finished 2nd but massively overperformed based on the actual performances we were putting out, and the underlying statistics and all the xG stats had us in 6th last season. This season the stats have us 5th, narrowly behind Spurs in 4th based on performances. The underlying stats since Ole took over are still the 3rd best side in the league (also 3rd in actual results since he took over).

Statistically, Ole has improved us overall, despite taking over half way through a season and the squad being a mess. Everyone and their dog can look at our squad and see mediocrity throughout. Man for man, our back 4 is probably about 11th or 12th in the league. I would in a heartbeat take Evertons, Leicesters, Wolves', all the top 5, even probably Palace's back 4 ahead of ours. So many of the mid table teams can put out an actual right sided player, while literally not a single player we use on the right would start at any of the top 12/13/14 clubs in the league on the right wing, because they are fecking shite there. Our midfield is Pogba and then a large group of players who if they all left tomorrow, nobody would blink an eye because they aren't good enough. Even Pogba will probably leave and has been a huge let down. You can point to Leicester doing better then us of late, but you can also ignore the club and just look at them on paper. They are far more balanced then we are. They have a better defensive group of players than we do. They are built towards a purpose and have decent players all over the pitch and don't have to use complete mediocrity to fill in half the starting 11 like we do.

All these reasons are why he needs time. Put any manager in charge mid season of this mess, and we would look a mess. This isn't down to purely coaching, it's the squad. It's years of going for the wrong players, ignoring problem positions, going after big names instead of fixing the obvious holes, and so on. Whether it's Ole in charge, Mourinho, Van Gaal, Pochettino, Klopp or Guardiola, nobody would succeed at anything more than a top 4 fight with this squad, because that's all it is good enough for.
How were our xG stats during our good run under Ole?
 

reddevil702

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Leicester without a doubt have a more balanced team. Also a very young team with loads of potential. Leicester also have without a doubt a much better defence on paper, man for man. Better for playing out the back, better defensively, more balanced, better in the air, better going forward. They also have a more balanced attack, having actual right sided players compared to United never having anything from the right.

It's not about one team having an identity after a few months. It's far easier to not look like a mess and build a more cohesive game when you have a balanced team. United basically can't play with wingers because we don't have any good wingers but also don't have strikers who can attack the ball in the air well. United have wank defenders both defensively and on the ball/going forward apart from Lindelof, so we also can't rely on a proper counter attacking style. No coaching will make Young a better player then he is. Or teach Smalling/Jones how to pass. Or make Shaw have any sort of final ball. Or any of our right wingers being even good enough for a top half of the table team. They are what they are, limited, average players who excel at some things but are really shit at others. Matic looked great for about 5 games under Ole then went back to looking ready to retire. It's not about some players lose form. Half your team can't carry you long term when the other half of the positions in the starting 11 are complete shit. No matter who the coach is.

Whether Ole is the right man to take us forward, who knows. What I do know is that whoever was our manager, they would need to spend huge money (on the right players) and we would look a mess til we did that. They would need a brand new midfield. They would need at least 1 centerback and 1 right back. They would need 1 right winger. That's just 5 players for the starting 11 alone, ignoring replacing anyone who wants to leave or squad players or improving on the decent but pretty average players who we won't move out this season like Shaw. There's just a huge job whoever the manager is, and I'll have a hard time pinning anything on the manager until he has time to change the squad.
We lack quality in a number of key positions, agreed. The fact we consider teams like Leicester, Wolves and Everton to have the equal quality really shows have bad the last month or so has been. I agree with the majority of your post, and by no means do I expect Ole to have us playing like City or Liverpool with these players. But the squad is not as bad as we are playing right now and ultimately that blame has to go to the manager. If Ole wasn't a club legend and such a likable person, the support would be much different. We all know Young is bad and yet Ole goes out of his way to include him in the line-up, LB, RB, RCB, RW are all positions Young has played for under Ole. At what point do you stop blaming Young and start blaming the manager who is consistently putting him out there? Balance can be created by the manager with the correct tactics. Everyone is relying on a summer window and new signings for change, but in reality what has Ole shown as a manager that instills this confidence? If he hadn't been given the job permanently, would you still offer it to him?
 

Leftback99

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Our squad, overall is better than Foxes. Cmon, lets not be silly now.

If you think Foxes have a better squad then you're essentially saying Mourinho achieved miracles winning a European trophy, League Cup and 2nd finish with largely this squad.

Vardy is better than Rashford, but then Rashford isn't even the best CF at Utd ffs. That's on the manager who keeps starting him.

Our squad does need improvement - and there are positions that other teams have better over us, but cmon, Rodgers has a squad that's got less talent in it than Oles, and he's actually put his identity over their footy in 3 months.

It must concern you, slightly as a Utd fan.
A good squad is irrelevant if you can't pick a decent first XI from it. It's better to have a squad of 11 9/10 players and 11 4/10s than 22 6/10 players.

The Leicester team basically picks itself, you seem to have ignored/admitted that we can't match their back 5 for quality. Lukaku/Vardy is just as close if Rashford isn't up front.

Who is all this 'talent' we have? De Gea, Pogba, Martial at their best. The rest wouldn't look out of place at lower teams.

Concerned, yes but more concerned that no matter who is in charge these players aren't good enough.
 

bosnian_red

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We lack quality in a number of key positions, agreed. The fact we consider teams like Leicester, Wolves and Everton to have the equal quality really shows have bad the last month or so has been. I agree with the majority of your post, and by no means do I expect Ole to have us playing like City or Liverpool with these players. But the squad is not as bad as we are playing right now and ultimately that blame has to go to the manager. If Ole wasn't a club legend and such a likable person, the support would be much different. We all know Young is bad and yet Ole goes out of his way to include him in the line-up, LB, RB, RCB, RW are all positions Young has played for under Ole. At what point do you stop blaming Young and start blaming the manager who is consistently putting him out there? Balance can be created by the manager with the correct tactics. Everyone is relying on a summer window and new signings for change, but in reality what has Ole shown as a manager that instills this confidence? If he hadn't been given the job permanently, would you still offer it to him?
I would agree with you, if there were options. Who do you want Ole to start at right back? We have Young and Dalot to choose from. Ole has played both on plenty occasions, sometimes together. That's just the reality of our selection options. A 19/20 year old who played like 5 professional football games before joining United this season from the portuguese league, who is far better going forward than he is defensively, or a 33 year old ex winger. Either way, it's shit. At right wing, who do we have to choose from? People criticize him for some selections, but there are literally no options to choose from. Same as center back. Smalling, Jones, Bailly, whoever. People will criticize but then not realize that there is literally nobody competent to pick to partner Lindelof.

Whether Ole is perfect or not for us is irrelevant really. Obsessing over the manager right now is the wrong thing to do. We need a revamped structure and we need to replace half the starting 11 regardless of manager. Pep comes in, we need 5 new starting 11 players then another 5 next summer. Same with Klopp or Poch or whoever, simply because 5 of our starting 11 players every week are at best mid table level.
 

Revaulx

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You really believe Leicester have a better team than United? Or could it seem that way because one team is well coached and has an identity after 3 months, while the other looks like a complete joke. It's no coincidence every single one of our attackers is out of form.
Bit of both. I agree Rogers has done an excellent job and has given them a definitely Rogersesque identity, but there’s no doubt also that Leicester have bought well over the years. Individually the players don’t match up to United’s, but their squad does appear to have greater cohesion.
 

bosnian_red

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How were our xG stats during our good run under Ole?
xG table since Ole took over:
  • xG shows that we've been the ~3rd best club in the league since Ole took over. 3rd most goals scored, 3rd most xG, 6th for xGagainst, 5th for goals conceded, 3rd most points, 3rd most expected points.
xG table for Mourinho's 17 games:
  • xG basically showing that there was nothing unlucky about Mourinho's results. Just was shit.

xG table for Mourinho last season when we finished 2nd (but xG had us as the 6th best side):
  • Shows how De Gea was godly and we conceded ~15 goals fewer then one would expect with our chances, while we scored about 9 more then we would expect with what our performances/creativity dictated. Led to us finishing 2nd and getting about 19 points more then you would expect with our chances, which is unheard of over performance.
 

ayushreddevil9

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We lack quality in a number of key positions, agreed. The fact we consider teams like Leicester, Wolves and Everton to have the equal quality really shows have bad the last month or so has been. I agree with the majority of your post, and by no means do I expect Ole to have us playing like City or Liverpool with these players. But the squad is not as bad as we are playing right now and ultimately that blame has to go to the manager. If Ole wasn't a club legend and such a likable person, the support would be much different. We all know Young is bad and yet Ole goes out of his way to include him in the line-up, LB, RB, RCB, RW are all positions Young has played for under Ole. At what point do you stop blaming Young and start blaming the manager who is consistently putting him out there? Balance can be created by the manager with the correct tactics. Everyone is relying on a summer window and new signings for change, but in reality what has Ole shown as a manager that instills this confidence? If he hadn't been given the job permanently, would you still offer it to him?
Nope. Blind faith in dross like Rashford, Young and Lingard has led me to make so many reservations about him. Someone with a working brain would have waited until the season before giving him the job but no surprises because we have clowns running the club. I remember Ole saying that he is a part of a commercial and it will be weird to see himself in a United commercial sitting in Norway. The club is still not focused on football but bloody commercials and promotions.

The squad IS bad though. You are making the same mistake the previous managers are making by giving these feckers a chance. Never ever they have proven themselves with any sort of consistency. Once the going gets tough, they fall like flies and go back to their shells. The squad is so full of spineless personalities its beyond ridiculous. And what pisses me more than anything is that these players think that they have made it in football. They act like they are winners or anything. They play half decent until Ed the clown hands them over a 200k p/w paycheck for next 10 years and then they fall back flat on their arses. Its not a coincidence that this group has failed 3 different managers.
 

reddevil702

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I would agree with you, if there were options. Who do you want Ole to start at right back? We have Young and Dalot to choose from. Ole has played both on plenty occasions, sometimes together. That's just the reality of our selection options. A 19/20 year old who played like 5 professional football games before joining United this season from the portuguese league, who is far better going forward than he is defensively, or a 33 year old ex winger. Either way, it's shit. At right wing, who do we have to choose from? People criticize him for some selections, but there are literally no options to choose from. Same as center back. Smalling, Jones, Bailly, whoever. People will criticize but then not realize that there is literally nobody competent to pick to partner Lindelof.

Whether Ole is perfect or not for us is irrelevant really. Obsessing over the manager right now is the wrong thing to do. We need a revamped structure and we need to replace half the starting 11 regardless of manager. Pep comes in, we need 5 new starting 11 players then another 5 next summer. Same with Klopp or Poch or whoever, simply because 5 of our starting 11 players every week are at best mid table level.
When you consider Young was a liability on both ends of the pitch, would it not make sense to at the very minimum to rotate Dalot and give him a chance? Just based off Young's form. I feel the complete opposite as to the manager relevancy, you have to have confidence that the manager is the right person to lead you forward. If it was Pep for example, you know what type of players he needs to make a team successful. It's proven and the right backing will get you there. Can't say the same for Ole.
 

Adam-Utd

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Nope. Blind faith in dross like Rashford, Young and Lingard has led me to make so many reservations about him. Someone with a working brain would have waited until the season before giving him the job but no surprises because we have clowns running the club. I remember Ole saying that he is a part of a commercial and it will be weird to see himself in a United commercial sitting in Norway. The club is still not focused on football but bloody commercials and promotions.

The squad IS bad though. You are making the same mistake the previous managers are making by giving these feckers a chance. Never ever they have proven themselves with any sort of consistency. Once the going gets tough, they fall like flies and go back to their shells. The squad is so full of spineless personalities its beyond ridiculous. And what pisses me more than anything is that these players think that they have made it in football. They act like they are winners or anything. They play half decent until Ed the clown hands them over a 200k p/w paycheck for next 10 years and then they fall back flat on their arses. Its not a coincidence that this group has failed 3 different managers.
WHAT OTHER OPTIONS DOES HE HAVE???

People keep saying he picks young like he’s got a viable option. He tried Lindelöf there and he was rubbish. Dalot is clearly not ready yet he gets skinned constantly at right back.

The forwards take your pick whatever selection they’ve been poor. We can’t rely on a 17 Year old :lol:

He’s tried his best with a bad bunch. You can’t just magically click your fingers.
 

WYRM

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Most important question I have, is Ole a cleanser?

In our case it's more important whom to get out than whom to get in. As long as we have a plethora of highly over-paid bang average, Europa League kind of players, it will be hard to get some actually good players on top of that who might want to get paid decently as well.
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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xG table since Ole took over:
  • xG shows that we've been the ~3rd best club in the league since Ole took over. 3rd most goals scored, 3rd most xG, 6th for xGagainst, 5th for goals conceded, 3rd most points, 3rd most expected points.
xG table for Mourinho's 17 games:
  • xG basically showing that there was nothing unlucky about Mourinho's results. Just was shit.

xG table for Mourinho last season when we finished 2nd (but xG had us as the 6th best side):
  • Shows how De Gea was godly and we conceded ~15 goals fewer then one would expect with our chances, while we scored about 9 more then we would expect with what our performances/creativity dictated. Led to us finishing 2nd and getting about 19 points more then you would expect with our chances, which is unheard of over performance.
No, I was interested in what our xG looked like during our winning run under Ole. It felt to me, watching with my eyes, that we actually had quite a bit of luck during that run - particularly in the latter half of it.
 

TsuWave

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No, I was interested in what our xG looked like during our winning run under Ole. It felt to me, watching with my eyes, that we actually had quite a bit of luck during that run - particularly in the latter half of it.
 

roonster09

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According to understat,

xG under Ole is 38.5 goals and we scored 36 goals
xA under ole is 24 and we conceded 23 goals
X points is 36.4 and we got 40 points.

Second tweet is just nonsense.
 

TsuWave

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According to understat,

xG under Ole is 38.5 goals and we scored 36 goals
xA under ole is 24 and we conceded 23 goals
X points is 36.4 and we got 40 points.

Second tweet is just nonsense.
Did you look at the dates of the tweets? those were the stats/applicable at the time they were made. there was a forum wide discussion here, many people made the same points, and it’s from those threads where I found the tweets.

And funny enough, second tweet’s prophecy has been fulfilled.
 

roonster09

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Did you look at the dates of the tweets? those were the stats/applicable at the time they were made. there was a forum wide discussion here, many people made the same points, and it’s from those threads where I found the tweets.

And funny enough, second tweet’s prophecy has been fulfilled.
Not sure where he got those numbers from. For PL, you can filter from Dec 18th to March 7th
https://understat.com/league/EPL

XG - 25.8; Goal - 29
XA - 13.6; Conceded - 9

Still the second tweet is nonsense. There is no way anyone with CV like Ole is going to turn down the job based on some shit statistical model. They will take on the challenge and for till date, expected goals scored, goals conceded, points are still 3rd best in the league since he took over.
 

TsuWave

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Not sure where he got those numbers from. For PL, you can filter from Dec 18th to March 7th
https://understat.com/league/EPL

XG - 25.8; Goal - 29
XA - 13.6; Conceded - 9

Still the second tweet is nonsense. There is no way anyone with CV like Ole is going to turn down the job based on some shit statistical model. They will take on the challenge and for till date, expected goals scored, goals conceded, points are still 3rd best in the league since he took over.
Don’t know if they include all comps or league only. Does yours/did you?

Ole not taking the job was that individual’s personal opinion, and hardly anything to harp on, the collapse being expected seems to be the core of that tweet, as its evidenced by what has transpired since.

People take on challenges they are not qualified for every day, b.
 

Treble

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Apart from Liverpool and City, the other top 6 teams have had a poor 2nd half of the season and being 3rd in the xG models means feck all. Ole did very well in the honeymoon period but it did end months ago.

I'll be surprised if he has success next season. But several new signings and pre-season might change the situation. He deserves to get that chance, especially if a more proven manager is not available right now.
 

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Seeing how Pep was fired up last night demanding everything from his players, demanding high quality, and then even seeing Brendan's team set up with a clear identity and way of playing, I just hope Ole can pull something out of the bag.
 

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I think United fans need to take a deep breath. Relax. See the last game out. Sit tight and see how the summer unfolds in terms of comings and goings. All this talk of Ole being a bad choice is pointless at this point. He is probably as puzzled as fans as to the Jekyll and Hyde nature of the playing staff. However he doesn't have a magic wand he can wave. All he can take out of his time so far is that the squad is talented but inconsistent. He has Sanchez on silly money most likely making negotiating new contracts with those he wants to keep a nightmare. It will also make his acquiring players all that harder.
United can undo the mistakes post Ferguson but it needs to learn lessons from them and navigate a shrewder path going forward. A number of things boggle me though.

Moyes. I know United fans didn't take to him but his record at Everton suggested he was a good team builder. His two main signings were given sufficient regard by his next two successors to be not sold on. Why wasn't he given longer? Yes I know his style of play might have been boring but let him build a team then judge him. I can appreciate that asking a manager with no medals to command the respect of a multiple medal winning squad was ludicrous. But he was in place with a six year contract. I wouldn't blame Moyes for bringing his own management team to OT. Most managers do that. Possibly should have incorporated Phelan into the equation unless he felt that Phelan might have had the player's ears.

LVG was a manager who played a very strict style of play which was never going to be cavalier and exciting. He did overhaul the squad with mixed results. Only the sale of Zaha and Evans could be criticised from their subsequent careers. He got two seasons and won the fa cup in his second. So why not grant him a third season and see where that would have taken United.

Mourinho was a ludicrous appointment in that he falls out with every dressing room he manages except maybe Inter and Porto. He makes it all about himself and to my mind was never a suitably dignified figure to lead a globally respected sporting institution like Manchester United. Leopards don't change spots. Giving Mourinho a renewed contract was idiotic. Allowing the signing of Sanchez on those wages was idiotic.

By chopping and changing the manager with the frequency United have done so post Ferguson each successor is left incomplete work by their predecessor therefore having to start from scratch.

Allowing Ferguson to chose his successor was in hindsight a mistake. None of his successors has seen three full seasons in charge. It takes three seasons to build a team unless like City you have unlimited resources. Even Guardiola has made use of signings from the Mancini and Pellegrini era.

The United board can't undo the past but at some point they need to give a manager time. They need to identify a style of play they wish to see. They then to need to assist the manager in recruiting players who fit that style. They need top class people in recruitment. At a club the size of United the manager should not be in sole charge of recruitment.
I have to agree with you. All of the managers since Ferguson were not given enough, time or support (though I think Jose gets himself sacked on purpose after 3 years at all clubs for the compensation). United fans were just not willing to wait a few years to see if things settled down.

The chopping, and the changing has created the frankenstein monster that is this team, a mish mash of bits and bobs.

But....

The trouble is in the modern age with the media/social media, and fans with expectations and demands like united's, guys like Moyes, and (certainly) Ole are not realistically likely to succeed, because it's just too brutal a working enviroment. That's why they start trying to lower expectations, but the more they kick out at the pressure, the more the noose tightens around their necks.

Once the media/fans turn, so do the players, especially if the manager lacks credentials, and starts to piss them off by dropping, or criticizing them in public. The rot really seemed to set in at the everton game, I suspect because Ole had just publically called certain players out.

He's truly doomed now, and has the Moyes '2000 mile stare' of the damned.

Ole hasn't had a transfer window yet, so there is little harm done, apart from the compensation, and loss of face to all concerned.

But it's rather like generals who send millions to their deaths in a lost cause just to avoid the indignity of defeat. They will be overun and overtaken by events in the end anyway. They just desperately want to delay the inevitable, and so sacrafice the troops for the sake of themselves over and above the nation they are supposed to be fighting for. Willing supporters might follow their generalissimo Ole and call it 'loyalty' but in the end they are just aiding/accelerating their own teams eventual, and inevitable destruction.

Allow Ole to bring in his own players, and if it doesn't work out (I really can't see how it could) it will be the same problem all over again. More odds and sods for the Frankenstein monster, and more players locked into lucrative contracts that the next manager will be stuck with, and will want to offload if they don't suit his playing style (or are just duds).

I feel bad for him I really do. I said, even before he got the job, that to give it to him would not be fair on Ole himself, because I remembered Moyes. Every time I see him on the touchline especially when I think how his dream job turned so sour, I just think it could have all been avoided.

Always had the deepest sympathy for Moyes for the same reason, who was treated like a national joke in similarly unfair, and toxic circumstances.

But both men just didn't have the stature for such a massive undertaking, and there is no shame in that. It's truly a massive job.

Should put an end to it before it goes any further.
 
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Treble

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I just don't see him being the guy to get this right. I mean he made 19 signings at Cardiff and still....
I don't see it either. But it would be farcical to fire him 8 weeks after he was given a 3-year contract. The board will pray that he will come good. I'm not sure though that even they are optimistic at that point.
 

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Thanks mate - this is the info that I was after. It certainly tallies with what I saw with my eyes. I don't say this to try and demean or discredit that brilliant winning run at all - but outside of the first few thumping wins it definitely started to feel that we were riding our luck a bit. Loads of penalties, scoring goals from few chances, DDG playing out of his skin, and opponents missing good chances.
 

JustAGuest

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Not sure where he got those numbers from. For PL, you can filter from Dec 18th to March 7th
https://understat.com/league/EPL

XG - 25.8; Goal - 29
XA - 13.6; Conceded - 9

Still the second tweet is nonsense. There is no way anyone with CV like Ole is going to turn down the job based on some shit statistical model. They will take on the challenge and for till date, expected goals scored, goals conceded, points are still 3rd best in the league since he took over.
Which makes it the third best in the league over that time (same for his entire stay). It's funny that people have been using the overperformance of xG during that run as a negative for him, when the underlying stats were very much acceptable. By the way, the losing run shows an underperformance in similar fashion.
 

RedPnutz

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So normal and sensible people won’t save another couple of millions to backup their wrong choice and ending up in a bigger mess that they started with? That makes sense.

The only thing that should keep him in the job based on results is Ed saving face that’s about it IMO.
I think we can look at it in a few ways. You are looking at it from the base assumption that Ole is already the wrong choice. From that angle you are probably right, no sense throwing good money after the bad. However sunk cost fallacy and escalation of commitment suggests that it is also not uncommon for Woodward to continue supporting Ole to justify the decision.

It could be likely that the board still believes in supporting Ole on grounds that he is a suitable choice. Either way, I think the right course of action would be to support Ole with a transfer kitty.

Whether he is good enough for Man Utd is a matter of opinion now and will play out over time. He may come good. At least we know that Ole will do his best for the club and his aim will be to improve the club. I think the positives glimpses we have seen are seeds that allow us to be optimistic.

Sacking him now will only cast the club in a worse light. Not only it is unjustified it does not give confidence to other new hires, players and investors. Fans probably don’t care about this except for the gratification of seeing your team win but these are real issues.

And if Woodward is getting cold feet and this makes him withdraw his support by not providing transfer funds. That reflects poorly on his leadership and the club in general.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Which makes it the third best in the league over that time (same for his entire stay). It's funny that people have been using the overperformance of xG during that run as a negative for him, when the underlying stats were very much acceptable. By the way, the losing run shows an underperformance in similar fashion.
So these things really do even out in the end...
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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The board will pray that he will come good. I'm not sure though that even they are optimistic at that point.
They are businessmen at the end of the day. Another poor result at Cardiff and I really think they will be seriously questioning whether to hand millions of £ to a guy that they are thinking they may have to sack early next season. And that is a recipe for disaster for Ole and the club, because it is clear to see that we require a lot of rebuilding and financial investment.
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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Which makes it the third best in the league over that time (same for his entire stay). It's funny that people have been using the overperformance of xG during that run as a negative for him, when the underlying stats were very much acceptable. By the way, the losing run shows an underperformance in similar fashion.
So these things really do even out in the end...
We're not at the end though are we fellas? We're currently still in the slump. The only time we can look back and say that the two evened each other out is when we've come out of the slump and can look back and see that it was just a transitory thing rather than an inexorable slide to mediocrity.

If you were to plot this all out on a graph it would be very visually clear that we are currently in freefall, with little in the way of signs that the slump is going to come to an end soon.
 

Di Maria's angel

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Thanks mate - this is the info that I was after. It certainly tallies with what I saw with my eyes. I don't say this to try and demean or discredit that brilliant winning run at all - but outside of the first few thumping wins it definitely started to feel that we were riding our luck a bit. Loads of penalties, scoring goals from few chances, DDG playing out of his skin, and opponents missing good chances.
The three games after the three thumping's were Newcastle, Spurs and Palace (IIRC) where we conceded 14, 21 and 17 shots respectively. We won all three but were never looked convincing.
 

TsuWave

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I don't see it either. But it would be farcical to fire him 8 weeks after he was given a 3-year contract. The board will pray that he will come good. I'm not sure though that even they are optimistic at that point.
Fair enough, and I respect your honesty and opinion, but I guess this is were we would disagree. I feel that the the club made a mistake and its best to course correct asap rather than worry about the optics, and dug our heels and persist with it in blind hope that it pays off. If the winning run was justification for giving him the job full time, then surely the club can use our worst run of form since 1962 as justification for removing him. The spanish giants make mistakes all the time but they act fast, i.e. Real Madrid with Solari.
 

bosnian_red

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No, I was interested in what our xG looked like during our winning run under Ole. It felt to me, watching with my eyes, that we actually had quite a bit of luck during that run - particularly in the latter half of it.
Teams will go through runs of form. Our run of form was title challenging form. Doesn't take a genius to know we arent capable of that. Top 4 challengers is what this squad can do, Ole has us 3rd since he took over both in performances and results. During our good run, the gap to the top was much smaller then it is now, but still 3rd all the same.
 

Bobcat

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Our squad, overall is better than Foxes. Cmon, lets not be silly now.

If you think Foxes have a better squad then you're essentially saying Mourinho achieved miracles winning a European trophy, League Cup and 2nd finish with largely this squad.

Vardy is better than Rashford, but then Rashford isn't even the best CF at Utd ffs. That's on the manager who keeps starting him.

Our squad does need improvement - and there are positions that other teams have better over us, but cmon, Rodgers has a squad that's got less talent in it than Oles, and he's actually put his identity over their footy in 3 months.

It must concern you, slightly as a Utd fan.
Come on man, using one game as an example is a big fat straw man. Leicester are in terrific form right now, no doubt about that, but we beat them on their own turf in February, but we both know we are not even in the same league as City right now. During our good run, we beat both Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal away, quite convincingly as well, so by that logic we could say Ole is a better manager than Poch, Emery and Sarri, which would be quite unfair right?

You seem to ignore that this is actually a side that won the league a few years ago. Granted they lost some key players since then, but their squad is well balanced, well gelled and they can easily punch above their weight on a good day. A good football team is much more than the sum of their players, and even more so if you use money spent as a metric since it does not really make an accurate reflection of the quality.

Our dealing in the market since Fergie has been nothing short of a disaster. Bar a few players, most of them have been expensive flops, which is why we have a 33 y/o former winger posing as a fullback (and a kid as his backup), a CB line consisting of one capable player and a couple of sick notes, a MF of a moody superstar, Herrera and a kid and an attack where we put all our faith in an incredibly unreliable academy product.
 

roonster09

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The three games after the three thumping's were Newcastle, Spurs and Palace (IIRC) where we conceded 14, 21 and 17 shots respectively. We won all three but were never looked convincing.
In the last few games in the losing run (or draws)
we had 23 shots vs 7 for Huddersfield
7 vs 16 - Chelsea
18 vs 9 - Wolves
14 vs 14 - Arsenal
10 vs 6 - Barca

Doubt you said we outplayed opponents or unlucky to drop points.
 
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