In one season they sold their first team and bought a new one???
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Agree, clubs these days are such behemoths that the infrastructure needs to be in place. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like we have one so the managers, players and us fans have to do the best they can. I don’t know enough about Woodward but he seems a good commercial guy, but trying to play DOF (if that’s true) is probably outside his league.
I am all for moaning, it is fun some times. But you are right, we get behind the team and the managers. We might criticise Martial for poor work rate but still cheer when he scores. It is fair to criticise Ole for the bad and praise him for the good.
It is just to irrational though some of the behaviour here. It is as if many fans have reached a certain boiling point and are just lashing out for the sake of it, and Ole is the easy target. Sacking Ole now!!! What are some of these guys thinking??
I've taken to watching all the Season Reviews from 92/93 - 2013 during this great era of despair. It's probably the only thing that has kept me sane.
Too much of that isn't good for you. Gotta look forward.
I meant being ruthless with managers obviously.
So normal and sensible people won’t save another couple of millions to backup their wrong choice and ending up in a bigger mess that they started with? That makes sense.
The only thing that should keep him in the job based on results is Ed saving face that’s about it IMO.
Nah, I saw that many expect Ole to do the rebuilt by clearing the deadwood which has so far had no implications he will do.
Like last year with Jose? Since when Woodward began to make rational footballing decisions?
Klopp had done a lot more to warrant time than Ole.
Like Moyes? Everyone and his dog knew he would fail.
Ole had close to 30 games now at helm. His form since full appointment has been disastrous. The football we have played since the last month and a half is no better than Jose's. We're the same position in the table as we were when Jose was sacked.
Ole was brought in as interim manager. To me when you draw the line come the end of the season he hasn't really done enough to warrant that additional time. Appointing him prematurely was one of the many wrong decisions Woodward made at helm. Two wrong ones doesn't make it right mate.
Why is this such a big issue for our club? If we were Monaco Henry would still be here. Madrid didn't give any of their managers the benefit of spending 300m before sacking them. I'm getting sick going into every new season waiting to cofirm the worst before acting.
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Watching this Foxes side hold City quite comfortably and play decent football against them it prompts the question -
How has Rodgers done this without spending millions, a preseason, rebuilding the club? And this is with a squad that was flirting with relegation before he took over.
How come some managers can actually coach players to be effective? Yet others, like many are saying about Solskjaer, need to literally rebuild a squad that finished 2nd last season to even be judged?
Doesn't add up, at all.
How has Rodgers done this without spending millions, a preseason, rebuilding the club? And this is with a squad that was flirting with relegation before he took over.
How come some managers can actually coach players to be effective? Yet others, like many are saying about Solskjaer, need to literally rebuild a squad that finished 2nd last season to even be judged?
Doesn't add up, at all.
Exactly what I'm thinking. Rodgers took a far inferior team and has them playing good football. We're still incapable of stringing together more than 3 passes.
This place literally spent all of last season complaining about how we literally needed a coach to train our players yet now we're hearing none of that.
Because at other clubs, the board (presidents, directors) has to take responsibilities with the fan. Perez could be voted out of office (Barcelona crew is the similar). After failure, they are forced to be pro active in fixing their mistake. Monaco is not raking revenue as a club so their owners wouldn't take it easy when it hurts their pocket.
Here this club is a wealthy club alone without the like of Glazers. We still make good income for them, so Woodward can hide behind financial numbers. Don't fix what is not working in Glazers' eyes is the financial situation, not football matter. Woodward doesn't have football understanding to plan thing out to see whether it's time for change or patience being required. It's just impulsive when matter forces his hands or he's Okay with it.
Because all the managers we hire apparently need time.
They need pre-season, 1 year, 2 years, 3 years etc.
It's a rubbish excuse.
Yeah, it's almost a bit surreal to me how people are shifting the goalposts to fit their own narrative.
It's like they don't care really what's best for the club, they just want to appear 'right'.
Its not so much about simply needing time. You should be able to illustrate that you're worthy of it. I'm not sure Ole is - past and current credentials show this. Our horrendous drop in form in addition to his previous experience worries me a lot.
Because Leicester still have a good team and have bought extremely well.
All this sacking talk about Ole. It won't matter who we appoint. Not even Pep himself can get any good whatsoever out of Jones, smalling, young and Valencia.
what, better than our team?
No, he get them the feck out of the club and sign a completely new back 4!
You really believe Leicester have a better team than United? Or could it seem that way because one team is well coached and has an identity after 3 months, while the other looks like a complete joke. It's no coincidence every single one of our attackers is out of form.
Rodgers being a much better manager than Solskjaer is, to be fair, what you'd expect looking at their respective CVs.
Rogers is a better manger than Ole by a long distance. He might be a tit but he has a philosophy that he effectively coaches.
Agree
I’m with you here. Can’t have faith in someone to fulfil some grand design when they haven’t show a semblance of a blueprint in six months.
I'd consider this jaded scenario but that the last manager was incredibly seasoned and successful only to be made to look quite a fool by this same putrid group of players.
But as complicated as I find our scenario between the player and board power over the manager, it's peculiar to think of the tragedy Leicester endured. Their owner dies and yet they still seem to be well run from the top down after his untimely death. Woodward cant get our structure organized in spite of unequivocal support from the Glazers and fans here.
They’ve also all been negative and outdated managers who haven’t coached or recruited to play modern football. In Ole we now have a limited manager who is trying to turn that round and is backed up by a club structure that can either be described as broken or not even existing. If it isn’t too big a job for him it would be a shock.
This group of players aren’t suited to one formation, every manger we have had lurches from one to another. We’ve relied on stopping the opposition and individual quality from our keeper and attacking players.
Leicester were in terms of performances playing quite well under Puel and just had a lot of bad results that went against the run of play. It isn't just due to a managerial change. They have a very strong and balanced squad with loads of potential as well. That's nothing to do with just Rodgers taking over, but also because of the players they have. Their squad is far more balanced then ours is.
We finished 2nd last season, yes, but our performances really didn't deserve 2nd. I know many on here don't like it, but "xG" is literally used to rate teams based on performances and see if there are discrepancies from just good runs of form due to clinical/wasteful finishing. Last season we finished 2nd but massively overperformed based on the actual performances we were putting out, and the underlying statistics and all the xG stats had us in 6th last season. This season the stats have us 5th, narrowly behind Spurs in 4th based on performances. The underlying stats since Ole took over are still the 3rd best side in the league (also 3rd in actual results since he took over).
Statistically, Ole has improved us overall, despite taking over half way through a season and the squad being a mess. Everyone and their dog can look at our squad and see mediocrity throughout. Man for man, our back 4 is probably about 11th or 12th in the league. I would in a heartbeat take Evertons, Leicesters, Wolves', all the top 5, even probably Palace's back 4 ahead of ours. So many of the mid table teams can put out an actual right sided player, while literally not a single player we use on the right would start at any of the top 12/13/14 clubs in the league on the right wing, because they are fecking shite there. Our midfield is Pogba and then a large group of players who if they all left tomorrow, nobody would blink an eye because they aren't good enough. Even Pogba will probably leave and has been a huge let down. You can point to Leicester doing better then us of late, but you can also ignore the club and just look at them on paper. They are far more balanced then we are. They have a better defensive group of players than we do. They are built towards a purpose and have decent players all over the pitch and don't have to use complete mediocrity to fill in half the starting 11 like we do.
All these reasons are why he needs time. Put any manager in charge mid season of this mess, and we would look a mess. This isn't down to purely coaching, it's the squad. It's years of going for the wrong players, ignoring problem positions, going after big names instead of fixing the obvious holes, and so on. Whether it's Ole in charge, Mourinho, Van Gaal, Pochettino, Klopp or Guardiola, nobody would succeed at anything more than a top 4 fight with this squad, because that's all it is good enough for.
Top post. Too many are blinkered in thinking this squad is far better than it really is. Although for me a clear first XI is the main issue.
Leicester without a doubt have a more balanced team. Also a very young team with loads of potential. Leicester also have without a doubt a much better defence on paper, man for man. Better for playing out the back, better defensively, more balanced, better in the air, better going forward. They also have a more balanced attack, having actual right sided players compared to United never having anything from the right.
It's not about one team having an identity after a few months. It's far easier to not look like a mess and build a more cohesive game when you have a balanced team. United basically can't play with wingers because we don't have any good wingers but also don't have strikers who can attack the ball in the air well. United have wank defenders both defensively and on the ball/going forward apart from Lindelof, so we also can't rely on a proper counter attacking style. No coaching will make Young a better player then he is. Or teach Smalling/Jones how to pass. Or make Shaw have any sort of final ball. Or any of our right wingers being even good enough for a top half of the table team. They are what they are, limited, average players who excel at some things but are really shit at others. Matic looked great for about 5 games under Ole then went back to looking ready to retire. It's not about some players lose form. Half your team can't carry you long term when the other half of the positions in the starting 11 are complete shit. No matter who the coach is.
Whether Ole is the right man to take us forward, who knows. What I do know is that whoever was our manager, they would need to spend huge money (on the right players) and we would look a mess til we did that. They would need a brand new midfield. They would need at least 1 centerback and 1 right back. They would need 1 right winger. That's just 5 players for the starting 11 alone, ignoring replacing anyone who wants to leave or squad players or improving on the decent but pretty average players who we won't move out this season like Shaw. There's just a huge job whoever the manager is, and I'll have a hard time pinning anything on the manager until he has time to change the squad.
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Leicester have a reliable striker anyway for a start. It helps.
You could argue when Zlatan left, that was the last time we had some genuine magic up there. Which for a club like United is shocking.
You could argue when Zlatan left, that was the last time we had some genuine magic up there. Which for a club like United is shocking.
Ah, here we go. Now Leicester apparently have a better team than ours 
It's just laughable.Ah, here we go. Now Leicester apparently have a better team than ours
Absolutely shameless excuse making. Shameless.
TBF Rodgers might be just having a new manager bonus stuff like what Ole had when he got the job.
But his past has shown how he wants his team to play and Leicester are closer to doing that.
Sunday will be important for Ole.
I rather he gives young players a chance. But if he goes with the same old, I’d lose more faith in him more.
I rather he gives young players a chance. But if he goes with the same old, I’d lose more faith in him more.
I think United fans need to take a deep breath. Relax. See the last game out. Sit tight and see how the summer unfolds in terms of comings and goings. All this talk of Ole being a bad choice is pointless at this point. He is probably as puzzled as fans as to the Jekyll and Hyde nature of the playing staff. However he doesn't have a magic wand he can wave. All he can take out of his time so far is that the squad is talented but inconsistent. He has Sanchez on silly money most likely making negotiating new contracts with those he wants to keep a nightmare. It will also make his acquiring players all that harder.
United can undo the mistakes post Ferguson but it needs to learn lessons from them and navigate a shrewder path going forward. A number of things boggle me though.
Moyes. I know United fans didn't take to him but his record at Everton suggested he was a good team builder. His two main signings were given sufficient regard by his next two successors to be not sold on. Why wasn't he given longer? Yes I know his style of play might have been boring but let him build a team then judge him. I can appreciate that asking a manager with no medals to command the respect of a multiple medal winning squad was ludicrous. But he was in place with a six year contract. I wouldn't blame Moyes for bringing his own management team to OT. Most managers do that. Possibly should have incorporated Phelan into the equation unless he felt that Phelan might have had the player's ears.
LVG was a manager who played a very strict style of play which was never going to be cavalier and exciting. He did overhaul the squad with mixed results. Only the sale of Zaha and Evans could be criticised from their subsequent careers. He got two seasons and won the fa cup in his second. So why not grant him a third season and see where that would have taken United.
Mourinho was a ludicrous appointment in that he falls out with every dressing room he manages except maybe Inter and Porto. He makes it all about himself and to my mind was never a suitably dignified figure to lead a globally respected sporting institution like Manchester United. Leopards don't change spots. Giving Mourinho a renewed contract was idiotic. Allowing the signing of Sanchez on those wages was idiotic.
By chopping and changing the manager with the frequency United have done so post Ferguson each successor is left incomplete work by their predecessor therefore having to start from scratch.
Allowing Ferguson to chose his successor was in hindsight a mistake. None of his successors has seen three full seasons in charge. It takes three seasons to build a team unless like City you have unlimited resources. Even Guardiola has made use of signings from the Mancini and Pellegrini era.
The United board can't undo the past but at some point they need to give a manager time. They need to identify a style of play they wish to see. They then to need to assist the manager in recruiting players who fit that style. They need top class people in recruitment. At a club the size of United the manager should not be in sole charge of recruitment.
United can undo the mistakes post Ferguson but it needs to learn lessons from them and navigate a shrewder path going forward. A number of things boggle me though.
Moyes. I know United fans didn't take to him but his record at Everton suggested he was a good team builder. His two main signings were given sufficient regard by his next two successors to be not sold on. Why wasn't he given longer? Yes I know his style of play might have been boring but let him build a team then judge him. I can appreciate that asking a manager with no medals to command the respect of a multiple medal winning squad was ludicrous. But he was in place with a six year contract. I wouldn't blame Moyes for bringing his own management team to OT. Most managers do that. Possibly should have incorporated Phelan into the equation unless he felt that Phelan might have had the player's ears.
LVG was a manager who played a very strict style of play which was never going to be cavalier and exciting. He did overhaul the squad with mixed results. Only the sale of Zaha and Evans could be criticised from their subsequent careers. He got two seasons and won the fa cup in his second. So why not grant him a third season and see where that would have taken United.
Mourinho was a ludicrous appointment in that he falls out with every dressing room he manages except maybe Inter and Porto. He makes it all about himself and to my mind was never a suitably dignified figure to lead a globally respected sporting institution like Manchester United. Leopards don't change spots. Giving Mourinho a renewed contract was idiotic. Allowing the signing of Sanchez on those wages was idiotic.
By chopping and changing the manager with the frequency United have done so post Ferguson each successor is left incomplete work by their predecessor therefore having to start from scratch.
Allowing Ferguson to chose his successor was in hindsight a mistake. None of his successors has seen three full seasons in charge. It takes three seasons to build a team unless like City you have unlimited resources. Even Guardiola has made use of signings from the Mancini and Pellegrini era.
The United board can't undo the past but at some point they need to give a manager time. They need to identify a style of play they wish to see. They then to need to assist the manager in recruiting players who fit that style. They need top class people in recruitment. At a club the size of United the manager should not be in sole charge of recruitment.
Forget Ole vs Rodgers for a minute and whether it's excuses or not. Do you believe we can put out a better back 4 than Leicester with a better DM in front than Ndidi? Is Rashford a better PL striker than Vardy right now?
I don't think Puel to Rodgers was quite as much a change as Mourinho to Ole though. Both had a possession based system. And tbf early on we did see some of what Ole wants to implement. It's collapsed as injuries, suspensions and form has nosedived and losing two or three games has snowballed the impact.
It's also clear a lot of our first team players (Matic, Smalling, Pogba, Lukaku, Martial) are just not suited to a high-intensity style.
>“He deserves a couple transfer windows”
>”He deserves to bring his own players/build his squad”
this man signed 19 players at Cardiff and still got them relegated. 19.
>”He deserves to bring his own players/build his squad”
this man signed 19 players at Cardiff and still got them relegated. 19.
That’s just a ridiculous arguement to be honest. Ranieri won the league with Leicester then 2 years later got Fulham relegated.
Cardiff were rubbish.
we knew the players weren’t good enough under Jose, that hasn’t changed. What we do know now is ole will give 100% and get rid of the daydreamers. Get the work ethic and desire back and then we can think about a new fancy tactical coach. We need the basics back.
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