Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[JustAGuest]

When your house is burning down, it's always best to not call the emergency services and see if the fire will put itself out. It's the United way.

It's not a house burning down. I doubt giving Ole a full season will have a largely negative impact on next season, even if it does not work out.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

The system Ole put out gave us more than enough chances to win the game. If we didn't win then that talks about the quality of the players more then anything.

Copy and paste argument for the last 3 managers.

 

[Godfather]

The system Ole put out gave us more than enough chances to win the game. If we didn't win then that talks about the quality of the players more then anything.

Zero shots on target in the first half speak a different language. Or was that in Ole's brilliant tactical plan?

 

[Godfather]

It's not a house burning down. I doubt giving Ole a full season will have a largely negative impact on next season, even if it does not work out.

Well it's very likely we will have another season without CL which does have a big negative effect. Thing is we won't be able to replace him with anything proper. That's the big issue.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Backing united is now top red?

What is a hundred times worse is people backing players over the club.

Or backing managers over the club.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Or backing managers over the club.

Well backing the manager is backing the club until the club decides its time for the manager to go.

Then it don’t really matter if your still backing the manager.

 

[Dec9003]

Zero shots on target in the first half speak a different language. Or was that in Ole's brilliant tactical plan?

Just out of interest (not having a go) what tactical plan would you have gone with to win against palace, and perhaps even going forward into the season?

 

[#07]

The CAF is a forum for opinion, so if its your opinion that Ole should go then I respect your right to express that. In the same way please respect my opinion to consider your view pathetic and ridiculous.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

City should have sacked Pep after losing 3-2 to Palace at home last season.

They would have won the title if they had sacked him. The board only have themselves to blame.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Well backing the manager is backing the club until the club decides its time for the manager to go.

Then it don’t really matter if your still backing the manager.

Is backing the CEO backing the club?
Is backing the owners backing the club?
Is backing the manager backing the club?
Is backing the players backing the club?

 

[Garethw]

I don't see any evidence that points toward Ole not being able to turn it around. How can anyone be sure of that?

That's why I think the most sensible thing is to judge him at the end of the season (or after a significant portion of it).

I don’t see any evidence to suggest he can turn it around either.

We were told that a good pre season would fix everything as our players weren’t fit enough for Ole’s style of play and yet the same old shit is rearing its ugly head yet again this season.

I hate to shit on Ole, as he is one of my favourite all time United players, but I can honestly say that his in game management and tactics are amongst the worst I have seen of any premier league manager of any era.

I don’t blame Solskjaer at all. He’s been promoted way above his ability level. It is (once again) Woodward and the board that are responsible for this shit show.

 

[#07]

Unlike many, I'm not going to blame Ole for what happened at the weekend. People questioning the inclusion of pace in forward areas should recognise the following things:

1. That pace should have got Cahill a red card
2. United should have had three penalties, all of which were because Palace struggled to cope when we attacked them with direct running
   
3. Our goal ultimately came because we had the front three running in tandem at Palace and James finished the move

The idea we needed Mata to start instead of Lingard makes no sense to me. What did Mata actually do when he came on? He was a mirage, a ghost, Palace played around him. Lingard wasn't at the races but, the idea he might run at Palace and get some joy out of them was not stupid.

The lineup Ole picked should have got the job done. Unfortunately when we got into forward areas, to be frank, too often our players turned chicken. There were the same lay offs we saw under Mourinho, giving the ball to someone else (usually Pogba) to abdicate responsibility for making something happen. It wasn't really until we started to get desperate that our forwards really began demanding the ball and going directly at Palace. For example, how many times can you remember Rashford really challenging Palace players to commit until after he missed the penalty and desperately tried to make up for it?

If you wanna try blaming Ole for something it would be that we didn't play with an urgency for most of the match. Even 1-0 down we played at a tempo that would have had you believing we were 3-0 up. However, and I said this under Mourinho too, unless we want Ole to strap up his boots and get out there himself, I am not sure you can hold him accountable.

The players need to be able to take responsibility for making things happen, instead of waiting for solutions to drop into their lap. Yes, we have a young squad. Still, that squad needs to grow the f-k up and take it on. Too many players in this squad play within themselves. When things get tough instead of stepping up they step aside. Too often its the safe ball or looking for Pogba to make something special happen. Honestly our players need to start looking in the mirror for answers instead of hoping that a hero is gonna swoop in and save them.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Is backing the CEO backing the club?
Is backing the owners backing the club?
Is backing the manager backing the club?
Is backing the club backing the club?

Yes to the first 3 last one don’t make sense (though I hate the owners and ceo of this club) Backing players over the best interests of the club is not, that’s fanaticism. Pretty sure there was a guy on here a few days threatening to stop supporting the club because not everyone else is in love with the pogba show.

 

[Scotty McT]

Just out of interest (not having a go) what tactical plan would you have gone with to win against palace, and perhaps even going forward into the season?

I'm not the poster you quoted but obviously you'd bench Lingard and/or James (I know he scored a nice goal) since they're players who are more effective in a counter attacking team which we were never going to do much of against a Palace side at Old Trafford, and you'd play a more creative player such as Mata who's more adept with his final ball. You could also swap Lingard for a centre midfielder and play our only consistently productive player Pogba further up the field where his talents are more suited, especially at home against a weak side.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Yes to the first 3 last one don’t make sense. Backing players over the best interests of the club is not, that’s fanaticism. Pretty sure there was a guy a few days threatening to stop supporting the club because not everyone else is in love with the pogba show.

Sorry meant to say players instead of club for last question. Very few are backing players over the club. They are backing good players for the good of the club. If Pogba leaves we would have zero players that other world class players want to play with.
My view is backing the club means backing whomever is good for the club. Whoever is not up to it shouldn't be backed. I don't know if Ole can turn it around or not but so far we don't have any evidence.

 

[Enigma_87]

I don’t see any evidence to suggest he can turn it around either.

We were told that a good pre season would fix everything as our players weren’t fit enough for Ole’s style of play and yet the same old shit is rearing its ugly head yet again this season.

I hate to shit on Ole, as he is one of my favourite all time United players, but I can honestly say that his in game management and tactics are amongst the worst I have seen of any premier league manager of any era.

I don’t blame Solskjaer at all. He’s been promoted way above his ability level. It is (once again) Woodward and the board that are responsible for this shit show.

Sorry meant to say players instead of club for last question. Very few are backing players over the club. They are backing good players for the good of the club. If Pogba leaves we would have zero players that other world class players want to play with.
My view is backing the club means backing whomever is good for the club. Whoever is not up to it shouldn't be backed. I don't know if Ole can turn it around or not but so far we don't have any evidence.

Spot on. These lads get it.

 

[shamans]

Fans are so fickle it's hilarious. It doesn't take much for them to turn against their manager. One day they hail him as the best thing since sliced bread, the next day they want his neck on the chopping block. Pure comedy.

These are the same people who argued with me so aggressively when I suggested poch is imo the better manager but solkjaer is doing well. Now they've took the complete opposite stance

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Sorry meant to say players instead of club for last question. Very few are backing players over the club. They are backing good players for the good of the club. If Pogba leaves we would have zero players that other world class players want to play with.
My view is backing the club means backing whomever is good for the club. Whoever is not up to it shouldn't be backed. I don't know if Ole can turn it around or not but so far we don't have any evidence.

Well when pogba goes next season I would expect at least most of the money will be invested on a replacement that is already world class or has the potential to be so.

Ole might not work out but he has my full backing as we have done the let’s get a new manager in approach too many times now, there isn’t an obvious option out there anyway now we are into the season and no guarantees it will get any better with them anyway.

 

[hocane]

Ok so Poch have an equally bad record recently. Ole is fine then, we're actually ok then?
Love the logic.
I haven't forgotten that 4-0 defeat to Everton and Ole and his coaching staff will need to start picking up some results very, very soon.

 

[Malicecooper]

The problem is not the manager, we know this since Sir Fergie left. The problem is two fold. The first is that when Fergie was there we had a lot of average people running the club on the back of him until eventually they started to believe their own BS. Now they are in charge they are left lacking in the most dramatic way.

Number one problem is the Glazers. When they initially took over this was foreseen and the demonstrations were correct. A bit like the hippies being right though at the time they were ridiculed for exaggerating and simply being wrong. Usually the first gut reaction has some truth in it and Utd fans were right to react this way. The Glaziers are manipulating the club like the Republicans manipulate politics in the US. Fir them they rely on 'Were are white americans and everyone else are below us' and the public love it. The Glaziers are using the same tactics. Their only priority is money because they are business people not football people. So a steady income is better than fluctuation. When the back lash hits they did something to calm it by doing what the loudest voices wanted. False hope and wishful thinking fans are a curse.

Number two, and i chose that number because he is shiiiiit. He is a useless guy who has found himself with power that he cannot handle and has no talent to handle. He is in it for himself. Woodward truly is the skid mark that not even bleach seems to be able to rid.

Number three, the players. Rashford and Martial are effectively the same player and should never be in the same team. Pogba is an attacking midfielder, not a Roy Keane. Up front we have players that would be better suited in the 100m dash, not footballers. The fastest players do not make the best players. Fast and skilful with talent yes, Usain Bolts no.

How to fix this?. Glazers forced out along with woodward. Woodward first would be a start.

Buy players who are smart not just sprinters. Clever players always come first. Utd lack guile and adaptability, players who can change when things are not working rather than the same thing again and again like Homer Simpsons grabbing beer from a electric line and never getting it, but electrocute themselves without fail. Beckham was not fast, Goggs was fast and smart, even Kancheskis who had blistering speed was smart.

Just because they are british means nothing. I am pointing this directly at Lingard. He would not get in any other premiership team. Maybe a mid table championship side, but never a perm team. yet he plays in the position we have a 90 million pounds player made for. Pogba should be there.

Unrest. Ok, if i was a pro footballer in the camp of Man Utd right now i would want out. I get DeGea wanting to go. He is in his prime and knows he has no chance of winning anything at Utd under the current set up. This is the same for Pogba. If i was him i would want to go and play for a side with potential in a warm country where he is not being raped by the tax man. The only reason to be at United is because we are United. The problem is, we are not United. Manchester united football club is at the moment being raped by cooperate power and non-footballing people. Manchester United was the place to come for any footballer. Utd, Barca and Real were the number one choices.

Get rid of the cancer, don't keep putting more lipstick on the face, you cannot keep doing it because this cancer of woodward and the glaziers are going to spread deeper and deeper until there is no hospital or procedure that can help.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Well when pogba goes next season I would expect at least most of the money will be invested on a replacement that is already world class or has the potential to be so.

Ole might not work out but he has my full backing as we have done the let’s get a new manager in approach too many times now, there isn’t an obvious option out there anyway now we are into the season and no guarantees it will get any better with them anyway.

As far as briefings are concerned no world class or potentially world-class player wants to come here. So money won't do us any good. If current world class players we do have want to leave, it sends the message 'abandon the sinking ship'.
The back the manager argument is copy and paste argument since the last 3 managers.

 

[Foxbatt]

Why should we give Ole more time? A simple question. We base our decisions on past history and what you see happening. From his past history he has nothing to show he can manage and coach a top football club. From what we see now(forget about the preseason) I do not see any progression at all. The meltdown that Jose had was nothing to do with actually his ability as a coach but more to do with his personality and his way of operating and his poor man management. He won three trophies for us if you count the Charity Shield and took us to 2nd. I am not saying that Jose should have been kept. No it is right they sacked him when things went south.

 

[Shark]

We’re pretty much done and dusted this season with Ole and his coaching staff in charge, that much is obvious to me. He’s been in charge for long enough to form an opinion and the same old patterns are glaringly popping up again and again, he’s not learning from anything. Three wins in what? 14 since PSG? Appalling. What are the club going to do, wait for us to be smacked 0-3 at home to City and Liverpool as we did in Moyes’ season before pulling the plug on this latest balls up?

 

[fergiesarmy1]

As far as briefings are concerned no world class or potentially world-class player wants to come here.

If that is really true it makes it even more likely pogba will abandon the sinking ship. I don’t think it is though, some progression this season and being able to offer champions league football would obviously help. We certainly don’t seem to mind throwing around obscene comtracts.

 

[Dec9003]

I'm not the poster you quoted but obviously you'd bench Lingard and/or James (I know he scored a nice goal) since they're players who are more effective in a counter attacking team which we were never going to do much of against a Palace side at Old Trafford, and you'd play a more creative player such as Mata who's more adept with his final ball. You could also swap Lingard for a centre midfielder and play our only consistently productive player Pogba further up the field where his talents are more suited, especially at home against a weak side.

That's fair, although I would argue that changing the lineup isn't neccesarily changing how you want the team to play (tactical plan).
I kind of agree about the Pogba part, the only problem is which midfielder do we put in? Matic is finished, Fred has vanished, and Pereira probably wouldn't be trusted there.
The real issue with putting Pogba further forward would be if we then struggled to get the ball up the pitch to him. Maybe Maguire and Lindelof would have to step up into midfield more to get us up the pitch.
We really need Fred to have a big year, or bring someone in when January comes around.
I don't fully agree about James only being useful for counter attacks, I think he's a good player in general and given our lack of options id start him more often than not. I think he's going to end up being a bit better at linking up play than he's given credit for.

 

[JustAGuest]

Ok so Poch have an equally bad record recently. Ole is fine then, we're actually ok then?
Love the logic.
I haven't forgotten that 4-0 defeat to Everton and Ole and his coaching staff will need to start picking up some results very, very soon.

That's not the logic, you have missed the point. No one is suggesting Ole is fine, some think he is completely out of his depth, while others suggest we should be waiting for a more definite verdict.

 

[dev1l]

https://theathletic.com/1160345/201...hat-to-ole/?amp#click=https://t.co/tRcrFPFnjL

 

[Shark]

The problem is not the manager, we know this since Sir Fergie left. The problem is two fold. The first is that when Fergie was there we had a lot of average people running the club on the back of him until eventually they started to believe their own BS. Now they are in charge they are left lacking in the most dramatic way.

The problem clearly is the manager hirings, but yes it’s two fold because Woodward is the one that’s appointed them. We haven’t signed one single top of his game manager since SAF has retired, difference is City and Liverpool have. Moyes, LVG, Jose and now Ole are not top level managers. LVG was aiready semi retired when we hired him and Jose was already past his sell by date.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

One thing that is really irking me is the timing of his subs. Against Wolves he made subs in the 88th minute, and on Saturday he left it until the 82nd to introduce Mata. Just far too late that.

 

[Noc-Z]

Just looking at our Premier League stats since SAF left. We have lost 51 league games in 6 seasons and only won 119. As a club we only lost 114 games in the 21 seasons he managed us!

Jose who most of us were happy to see the back of only had a 1 in 5 loss ratio compared to Oles 1 in 3.3 and even boasted a slightly higher win rate than Ole. We are not still going forward in terms of progression and our latest transfer window is looking worse by the day. We are one or two injuries away from big trouble.

The club has fallen so far behind now that we cannot really consider ourselves a current top club in this league anymore. Ole has his work cut out for sure but barring a worse than 6th finish again he should have the next window to sort it out. However I feel it will be a lot more difficult than this summers window to attract players thus I cannot see him lasting the following season.

I honestly do not see where and when this clubs current fortune takes and upward turn. Pogba will no doubt leave next summer and possibly De Gea also who has still not signed that contract, so I personally see us going a good few years yet before we start to challenge again. Unfortunately I don't think Ole will be the guy to do it.

Well the next window is January, which has always been a difficult window to do anything in and our season could be all but over by then anyway. Unless you mean next summer window. We didn't do enough this one and I've got no faith we'll do anything of note next one.

 

[Eriku]

Ugh. The Caf is really making me hate my fellow United fans.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I don't really understand the reaction on here - I think most fans' predictions would have been a finish between 3rd and 5th and we're playing in a manner that's about right for that. We have a number of prospects in our attack who have started decently enough but will all have periods of inconsistency, Rashford & Martial's goals are actually more impressive when you think they are compensating for Lingard who seems to get into the team based on the fact he'll run and track players from a defensive standpoint but not for any offensive threat.

This is what Ole wants us to be - a very basic but hugely physical and fast counter attacking team. For me, it's too easy to defend against and won't win us anything but this is the direction he's taking us and I expect plenty more games like CPFC where teams sit in against us knowing we only become dangerous when they have to score and take risks.

 

[Greck]

I wonder if we'll also look for a British goalkeeper if De Gea leaves

 

[Bestietom]

So people think we get a new manager and everything will change. 500 million worth of players next summer for the new manager. Everything rosy with the Glazers and Woodward.
Forget it , this will never happen, and no matter what manager we get in, things will never change as long as Woodward and the Glazers are here.

1. Let Ole run the show for another 2/3 windows and see what happens.
2. Get in a DOF to look after the football matters and take Woodward as far away as possible to do the commercial side of things.
3. No more players in their late twenties brought in on extortionate wages, like Sanchez.

 

[PaulRich]

Never going to be a one window fix. We'll have some Palace like results this season alongside results we'd never expect in terms of winning. We've made a good start IMHO with the three signings we made.

 

[Lentwood]

Ole is still a jumped up caretaker overseeing our transition.

I highly doubt the club see Ole as the long term solution. I think it boils down to hiring someone popular and likeable who can manage us through what will undoubtedly be a couple of very tough seasons whilst we rebuild the first team

I imagine we will finish 6th this season, 4th-6th next season and then get someone like Poch

 

[momo83]

It does put things into perspective. He has long been mentioned as the ideal replacement, and he is on an equally poor run of form as that which Ole is being questioned for.

Obviously his track record is much greater than Ole's, you cannot compare them in that sense. But perhaps it goes to show that it's too early to form a definite opinion on Ole. I'm sure most expect Pochettino to turn it around, so why would Ole not be able to do so as well?

I think we were heavily let down by poor finishing vs Palace, while against Wolves we didn't concede many chances at all, but drew to that Neves wondergoal from outside the box. Missing two consecutive penalties is also quite unfortunate.

Ronaldo scores 40 goals a season, why would Troy Deeney not be able to aswell.

 

[Leftback99]

That’s not the bigger picture! At all. Can everyone STFU with the Poch comparisons!!?!

What Spurs, City or Liverpool do has nothing to do with us. And making comparisons with one manager to make yourself feel better is pathetic.

This place sometimes.

Poch is seen as the saviour by many on here, if we get him in we'll be instant title challengers again swatting teams like Palace aside with the same players we have now.

So i'll gladly make comparisons with Poch and Spurs who have a better team but are getting similar results to us. I need to understand why one manager is seen as the man to solve all our problems while the other should be sacked. Spurs were terrible against Newcastle yesterday, as they were in the two previous games as well.

 

[momo83]

Well when pogba goes next season I would expect at least most of the money will be invested on a replacement that is already world class or has the potential to be so.

Ole might not work out but he has my full backing as we have done the let’s get a new manager in approach too many times now, there isn’t an obvious option out there anyway now we are into the season and no guarantees it will get any better with them anyway.

Only manager we sacked who deserved more time and money was LVG. He got crucified for dull football, but 1) Pep football would look dull with no attacking fullbacks and Rooney as the number 10.

Moyes? Deserved to go. Proved he was incompetent, keeping him longer would not have improved things.

Mourinho? Deserved backing after finishing second. But his vision of sell Martial and replace with Perisic was too against the United way and he started falling out with all our best players. So he also had to go.

 

[7even]

I will continue!

If Ole wants to survive then he needs to stop using a 4231 formation with Pogba in midfield.

We will win some games her and there but against the bottom half there is better formations and a better way to use the qualities of our only creator and only world class player we have in our squad. Sorry David, atm you’re not there any longer.

1. Pogba best position is in a attacking role with TWO midfielders behind him. Make a change.

2. Lingard isn’t good enough as a number 10. How hard can it be to see that?

3. McTominay shouldn’t play behind Pogba as a dm when his best position is as a b2b midfielder. Bad planning.

4. Pereira is a squad player. Obvious observations since last season and this pre season. Baffling.

5. We must have more numbers in midfield to control a game over 90 minutes. Elementary.

As long as we don’t have players with enough quality then this 4231 formation will be our Achilles against teams who parks the bus and play on counter. We can’t continue to lose point so easy because of management mistakes.

Solskjær needs to wake up and hold himself and his players accountable when the team don’t deliver expected results. To many easy mistakes. Our players are sloppy, bad preparations is often behind such behaviors. Only one game plan and when results goes against us we don’t have any solutions. Slow in his reactions when the game change tempo and our opponents starts to press us in our on half. His substitutions is to late and they don’t have any impact of the results. All this is more or less bad management.

Missed penalties isn’t his fault but bad defending and lack of creativity is on his desk to improve. Time to step up and show why your loyal supporters put faith in you. I’m skeptical.