Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Leftback99]

United under Fergie in his last few years would be the perfect example.

You seriously believe that squad was 'average' and comparable to what we have now?

 

[Godfather]

You seriously believe that squad was 'average' and comparable to what we have now?

I think it was above average but any other manager out there wouldn't have won the league with it. Would Fergie win it with ours right now? No. But he would make sure we would win against all that dross we drop points to nowadays.

 

[Leftback99]

I think it was above average but any other manager out there wouldn't have won the league with it. Would Fergie win it with ours right now? No. But he would make sure we would win against all that dross we drop points to nowadays.

No he wouldn't, SAF dropped points against dross even with his best sides, particularly away from home.

Mancini (hardly one of the greatest ever managers) beat SAF to a title. Why? Better players.

We didn't appreciate how good we had it even post 2010 with the likes of Rio, Vidic, Evra, Rooney, Van Persie, Scholes, Carrick, Giggs. We've never replaced them but people expect the same level of results.

 

[Godfather]

No he wouldn't, SAF dropped points against dross even with his best sides, particularly away from home.

Mancini (hardly one of the greatest ever managers) beat SAF to a title. Why? Better players.

We didn't appreciate how good we had it even post 2010 with the likes of Rio, Vidic, Evra, Rooney, Van Persie, Scholes, Carrick, Giggs. We've never replaced them but people expect the same level of results.

Nobody expects the same results though. With our spending we however should be able to beat the likes of Wolves and Southampton.

 

[Leftback99]

Nobody expects the same results though. With our spending we however should be able to beat the likes of Wolves and Southampton.

Yes they do, that's why there's so much hysteria every time we lose.

We 'should' do but we've absolutely wasted it over the last few years. I looked at yesterday's line ups pre game and agreed with a post that said there really wasn't much difference in quality between the lineups (unless we overrate the likes of McTominay, Mata, Rashford, Lindelof, James, Young, Pereira).

 

[Godfather]

Yes they do, that's why there's so much hysteria every time we lose.

We 'should' do but we've absolutely wasted it over the last few years. I looked at yesterday's line ups pre game and agreed with a post that said there really wasn't much difference in quality between the lineups (unless we overrate the likes of McTominay, Mata, Rashford, Lindelof, James, Young, Pereira).

It was better then theirs. Not much as our forward line is abysmal and McTominay is average but still better. The thing is that Hasenhüttl is a very good manager though.

 

[Dansk]

After six years and four different managers, two of which had excellent qualifications, it's pretty obvious that the problem is not the manager.

 

[londonredmaniac]

I am not one to look backwards and in the end things had got to an untenable position and a change was necessary.
But it is correct to say that a significant number of fans blamed Jose for anything and everything.
All I ask for is fairness. Jose is a highly intelligent guy who knew that he was judged by instant results.
He tried to buy more experienced players who would make an instant impact.
Unfortunately it was a lost opportunity for both United and Jose.

Again, anyone who thinks Jose was the sole or even major problem in the failings of MUFC in recent times is sniffing, smoking or ingesting something a little bit exotic.

Not that he was without blame as you sayb

 

[Leftback99]

It was better then theirs. Not much as our forward line is abysmal and McTominay is average but still better. The thing is that Hasenhüttl is a very good manager though.

So not much like you say, throw in home advantage it evens out even more. McTominay is young and improving but has he proved he's better than the likes of Ward-Prowse or Romeu? Not yet.

These results aren't surprising whatever manager you put in charge of what we've got.

 

[londonredmaniac]

After six years and four different managers, two of which had excellent qualifications, it's pretty obvious that the problem is not the manager.

It plays a part of course, but you are right, it runs much deeper than that.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

From as an objective standpoint as I can this is how I see it.

Good
Maguire, AWB and James are very good signings so far. If this is the kind of player Ole wants and gets long term I’m very happy.

Playstyle is better we press much higher up and we are attacking more and creating chances.

Opportunities for youth development are much better and so we’ll actually get a good judge of the quality of our academy. Getting good footballers from the academy and then adding excellent ones from elsewhere is not a bad way of building a squad that can last.

We are slowly but surely removing problem players and deadwood.

Bad
Struggling to finish teams off at the moment

Small squad lacking experience in key areas (striker)

Lack of top (world class) quality in creative areas

 

[RedMilo]

Is it? The only thing watchable is that the other team is always in the game and that's not a compliment to us either. The football is ponderous, square passing, improvised, few one-twos, it's the same make it up as you go along football like the last manager. We don't really have any of the modern principles that allow us to sustain meaningful possession. Ole needed an addition to his coaching staff over the summer as he doesn't really have it in his locker to coach a playing identity. Pep, Klopp and Poch have really raised he bar on what it takes to excel as a manager in the PL. Winning is now even less about assembling a team better than the competition

I think its been quite adventurous at times, still a lot to improve on don't get me wrong but compared to Mourinho's team which was everything you described ponderous etc, its a breath of fresh air. No longer are we seeing slow transitional play. We are not subjected to Matic ambling around or the ball bouncing off Lukaku, its a step forward but there is still work to be done.

 

[Godfather]

So not much like you say, throw in home advantage it evens out even more. McTominay is young and improving but has he proved he's better than the likes of Ward-Prowse or Romeu? Not yet.

These results aren't surprising whatever manager you put in charge of what we've got.

So who's to blame then if after half a billion spent the last decade we still field a team not much better than Southampton's?

 

[Jim Beam]

You haven't a clue about football and how building a team works, that isn't an insult that is an absolute fact basing it off your own comments.

Based on your views and understanding, I wouldn't trust you to build a Lego house.

 

[Leftback99]

So who's to blame then if after half a billion spent the last decade we still field a team not much better than Southampton's?

Well it's not Solskjaer.

 

[hocane]

If OGS was in charge of Man City or Liverpool he wouldn't even be close in winning the title.
The man is totally incompetent as a coach.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Yes they do, that's why there's so much hysteria every time we lose.

We 'should' do but we've absolutely wasted it over the last few years. I looked at yesterday's line ups pre game and agreed with a post that said there really wasn't much difference in quality between the lineups (unless we overrate the likes of McTominay, Mata, Rashford, Lindelof, James, Young, Pereira).

So why get rid of Lukaku, Sanchez and Fellaini? Two of whom were very useful for us against the weaker sides in the league.

 

[Martialfc]

We can’t keep slating OGS our team has been in decline for years now due to no plan or structure. Atleast he is clearing the dead wood out the club there’s not one player who’s left who I’d argue we should of kept maybe bar Smalling. This is a process it’s going to take time. People need to realise that we have players that in our starting eleven that we need currently and still aren’t good enough to challenge! We’ve become a club full of mercenaries who don’t play for the shirt. It’s going to take time and patients..

 

[Foxbatt]

Of course it's the manager. We have better players than Palace, Wolves and Southampton yet we could not bear them. We are set up with two midfield players when for the past three years it has not worked with Pogba. So why on earth does ole think it is going to work now?
Sell of any other options we had without replacing them.
Can't do any proper set pieces. Can't defend any set pieces. Apart from running what else? There is no tactics and no coaching on movements off the ball. Certainly no one can see it on the pitch at least.
When we start losing the momentum and the equilibrium swings the other way he doesn't know what to do. This happens in every game.
Look at the Wolves goal. Why was not anyone marking the player? These things should be done by coaching and drumming it inside the players.
Man to man marking with their best header Vs our best header etc. Don't let them cross the ball.
We now never seem to stop crosses.
It goes on and on.

 

[Leftback99]

So why get rid of Lukaku, Sanchez and Fellaini? Two of whom were very useful for us against the weaker sides in the league.

I thought getting rid of Fellaini, Lukaku and Smalling were mistakes at least in the short term. If they are all on Solskjaer then it's a fair criticism. Appears that they were a lot to do with balancing the books though.

 

[BusbyMalone]

I agree, LVG had a good plan the only thing that failed him was recruitment.

And the fact that the football was awful

 

[Garethw]

We aren’t winning anything with Solskjaer in charge.

 

[Kurton]

And the fact that the football was awful

It's not that great now either is it?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

And the fact that the football was awful

The football was awful, but my god the man himself was entertaining.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Things will not change in next few months. I think that with Ole it will never change, this what we see now is his maximum but nevermind what i think. My point is that we don't look good and in next 7,8 games we will drop a lot of points. It is just our reality. So now, in international break, board must sit down and decide what to do. Stick with Ole whole season no matter what or to sack him now. Last year we lost CL spot only because we didn't react on time. In october it was obvious that things don't look good and that Mourinho is finished here.
We have time now. Season just started. Sack him now, hire Allegri and lets go with him. I could bet that Allegri would be in top4 with this squad. Maybe not with "super fast attacking free flowing United way" football but it is not that we have that now, isn't it?

Having said that, Ed will wait, we will drop points and in november when our gap will be huge, Ole will be fired and replaced with Carrick until the end of the season.

 

[Jim Beam]

Allegri would be such a reactive, hit the full panic button appointment.

Wouldn't bet against us doing it.

 

[FootyGirl88]

And the fact that the football was awful

It was, but I think it was down to personel

 

[ranxerox]

Did / Does Rodgers have the same issues of squad rebuild?
Did he go to a club that had been poorly managed for years from the board and football appointments?

When Rodgers has to sell off half his senior squad then try compete, lets see how he does.

Still you have to admit 3 in 17 is shocking, and simply not anywhere near good enough for us. He needs a run of wins starting now.

 

[crossy1686]

Improvements
Young, hungry squad with likeable players.
New additions looks the part.
We’re devastating on the counter.
James has already equalled Sanchez goal tally in a United shirt.
More solid defensively.
Lots of deadwood/mercenaries cleared out.

Worries
We struggle against teams that sit deep and don’t attack, something we’ve struggled with since Fergie left.
We’re not clinical enough.
We don’t make the most of set pieces.
De Gea’s situation is a concern.

We’re going in the right direction and if Solskjaer can get them to improve our probing and passing in the final 3rd we’ll easily dispatch these teams.

 

[TsuWave]

I agree with part of the criticism of Ole, but where do we go now? We've gone down every road:

- Premier League proven manager;
- Master strategist;
- Serial winner;
- Club legend.

So what is it gonna be now? Keep changing managers and hope someday we get one that will magically solve all the underlying problems?

We’ve not had close to a best in class manager and/or an at least an emerging one that understands football how it is currently with a relatively successful background.

Moyes was a mid table manager, who’s biggest achievements was how long he had been at Everton and being Scottish.

LvG had not been involved in club football for years.

Mourinho was washed up and had been sacked from his previous two jobs, including one such a capitulation as having the champions sitting 17th on the league table.

Solskjaer got a 3 year contract on the back of a fluke win in Paris and the emotional attachment fans have to him. The same emotional attachment that makes them believe he’s capable of turning United around despite his managerial reference points being relegation with Cardiff and managing in a league that arguably doesn’t match the English league one in terms of quality/standard. He has presided over our worst run of form since 1962 and no matter how many happy memories, fuzzy feelings, how nice of a guy he is and the fact he can name drop Fergie will change that. There was hardly any substantial evidence that justified his appointment in the first place, and there’s even less so to justify persisting with him.

The implication/suggestion that we should not get rid of an incompetent/inept manager because we tried other avenues in the past, is ridiculous.

 

[OrcaFat]

Things will not change in next few months. I think that with Ole it will never change, this what we see now is his maximum but nevermind what i think. My point is that we don't look good and in next 7,8 games we will drop a lot of points. It is just our reality. So now, in international break, board must sit down and decide what to do. Stick with Ole whole season no matter what or to sack him now. Last year we lost CL spot only because we didn't react on time. In october it was obvious that things don't look good and that Mourinho is finished here.
We have time now. Season just started. Sack him now, hire Allegri and lets go with him. I could bet that Allegri would be in top4 with this squad. Maybe not with "super fast attacking free flowing United way" football but it is not that we have that now, isn't it?

Having said that, Ed will wait, we will drop points and in november when our gap will be huge, Ole will be fired and replaced with Carrick until the end of the season.

You’ll get decent odds on that happening. Put your house on it.

 

[Foxbatt]

Ole didn't have to sell half of his team. He wanted to sell them and sold them. Big difference. Rogers also lost his best player to Ole.

 

[BusbyMalone]

The football was awful, but my god the man himself was entertaining.

Yeah, i have nothing against the man personally. He didn't rile me up like Jose.

 

[BusbyMalone]

It's not that great now either is it?

I'm not saying it is or it isn't. It's different. The intent from the manager is different. But that's not my point. My point is, is that his poor recruitment wasn't his only downfall.

 

[Isotope]

His biggest mistake is spending 130m on defence, instead of improving attack or attacking midfield. We may shipped a lot of goals last season, but it didn't really matter as long as we could put sword to those smaller teams of which we immensely struggled with. You win games by scoring, not by preventing goals.

To rely on Rashy and Martial, both were poor before, for the whole season is really beyond belief.

 

[Zaboot]

But you haven't given any examples of top managers doing well with average squads? You haven't proved anything.

Klopps first game in charge
Thats an average squad


Liverpool’s starting XI v Spurs: Mignolet, Clyne, Skrtel, Sakho, Moreno, Leiva, Can, Milner, Lallana (replaced by Allen), Coutinho (replaced by Ibe), Origi
Subs: Toure, Allen, Ibe, Bogdan, Sinclair, Vilaca Teixeira, Randall

 

[BusbyMalone]

It was, but I think it was down to personel

Perhaps. And as you said, the poor requirement was down to him, mostly, so that's two things that contributed to his downfall. I have no problem with he man himself, there's just a lot of revisionism with LVG around here sometimes. I mean, we scored 49 goals in his last season. 49 goals. Awful stuff.

 

[LJJT]

As poor as the start to the season is points wise, I don’t think we are far off. The general performance level is better. We’ve dominated every game except Chelsea, we’ve made more chances than under previous managers albeit not clear cut, we are fitter, more energetic and dynamic. His 3 signings are better than previous managers. We’ve missed penalties or good chances every game. We are getting there

 

[Eriku]

If OGS was in charge of Man City or Liverpool he wouldn't even be close in winning the title.
The man is totally incompetent as a coach.

See, this is what gets me. How can you word it like that? Totally incompetent?

It’s all shite or wonderful, no fecking shades of grey. How can you people posr this kind of nonsense?

 

[Enigma_87]

Improvements
Young, hungry squad with likeable players.
New additions looks the part.
We’re devastating on the counter.
James has already equalled Sanchez goal tally in a United shirt.
More solid defensively.
Lots of deadwood/mercenaries cleared out.

Worries
We struggle against teams that sit deep and don’t attack, something we’ve struggled with since Fergie left.
We’re not clinical enough.
We don’t make the most of set pieces.
De Gea’s situation is a concern.

We’re going in the right direction and if Solskjaer can get them to improve our probing and passing in the final 3rd we’ll easily dispatch these teams.

Didn’t we have 1 clean sheet in the last 19 games?