Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Eric7C]

OK so I think it's time we weighed up the pro's and con's that have been argued throughout this thread and really look at them with open eyes and some real rationale.

Let us start with the arguments against Ole:

- 4 wins in 22 games since PSG.
- Currently 14th in the PL after 9 games;

- 2 points above relegation
- 15 points behind leaders
- GD of +1
- 22.22% win ratio
- 10 points from 9 games​

- 2 wins in last 14 league matches, with 6 draws and 6 defeats.
- Winless away from home in eight matches.
- Haven't scored more than one goal since first game against Chelsea.
- Unable to hold on to a lead, having thrown leads away against Wolves, Southampton, Rochdale, Arsenal and Liverpool.
- Let go of Herrera, Lukaku, Fellaini and Sanchez without any like for like replacements and now the squad is threadbare and the best striker is a 10-goal-a-season man. Was the risk of injury to players not considered?
- Handed new contracts to Jones, Mata, Young despite claiming he wants to remove deadwood.
- Why are so many players injured (12 isn't it) 9 games into a season? Coincidence? Pure bad luck? Something wrong with training/fitness regimes?
- In-game management seems to be lacking. Subs made too late, system doesn't change, never appears to be a plan B, C or anything but a plan A.
- Won back to back titles with Molde in his first two seasons but finished 6th in his 3rd season, then heading to Cardiff, eventually relegating them and getting the sack.
- Won 9 out of 30 games for Cardiff (win rate of 30%)
- Returns to Molde and wins no titles finishing 5th in 2016, and runners up the following two seasons.
- Since leaving, Molde are now 1st in the league, 5 points clear with 5 games remaining, having lost only 3 of 25.
- Since leaving Molde, they have a win rate this season over 25 games of 68%. Ole's win rate for the club was 55.56%.
- Has a win rate for Manchester United, including the so called honeymoon period, of 47.5%, lower than any United manager since 1981.
- Worse start of a season for 33 years.

The arguments for Ole:

- If SAF had been sacked this early we wouldn't have had our many years of eventual success. (SAF had previously won silverware, incl European, for Aberdeen)
- It's a process (despite no visible progress and dire results, see above).
- His signings are good (Jose wanted Maguire, Giggs recommended James), so credit at least for AWB.
- He is a club legend.
- He had an initially good start with United.
- He is a nice guy, always smiling.
- He's giving youth a chance (despite Greenwood, Gomes etc barely playing).
- It has to get worse before it gets better (this one always amazes me).
- We drew against Liverpool.
- It's the United way.
- It's the players, not the manager.
- He has inherited years of bad management so deserves time to sort out the mess.
- Woodward is to blame for all the negatives, Ole is responsible for everything positive.

The thing that really strikes me is that all the negatives are backed up by hard evidence and statistics, yet the positives are somewhat subjective and there are zero stats which can be used to make a positive case for Ole.

Happy for anyone to add anything to either list if they are able to!?

For me, it all points to one thing, the need for Ole to go ASAP. But what do I know.

Game, set and match. Well done.

 

[Random Task]

1) Our squad was still good enough to finish 2nd.
2) The players are performing to a much much much worse standard then under Jose or LVG... don’t forget LVG was playing Academy players McNair, Blacket, Jackson and still only missed out on 4th due to goal difference. To put it into context City sell academy players and they become £100m + superstars, what happened to the 3 I named?

It’s astounding that people think it was this bad under LVG and Mourinho. A complete rewriting of history, just to make Ole not appear as bad as he is. Under LVG even in his final season, there were times in December when we were a win away from going top. Now we’re probably a loss away from going into the relegation zone.

3) We were crap under Ole even without the injuries.

1) The following season that very same squad had us languishing in a midtable position, which resulted in Jose getting the sack.

2) LVG & Jose lead us to two top-four finishes in 5 years. Hardly groundbreaking stuff. Not least when you factor in the £750 million that was spent between them to achieve those positions.

3) That isn't true. Ole had United performing as well as any time since Fergie retired before the injuries kicked in at the end of last season. We were on a 10 game winning streak before that happened.

A similar situation is taking place this season, too. Injuries have had a severe impact on performances and results.

 

[sunama]

Let us start with the arguments against Ole:

- 4 wins in 22 games since PSG.
- Currently 14th in the PL after 9 games;

- 2 points above relegation
- 15 points behind leaders
- GD of +1
- 22.22% win ratio
- 10 points from 9 games​

- 2 wins in last 14 league matches, with 6 draws and 6 defeats.
- Winless away from home in eight matches.
- Haven't scored more than one goal since first game against Chelsea.
- Unable to hold on to a lead, having thrown leads away against Wolves, Southampton, Rochdale, Arsenal and Liverpool.
- Let go of Herrera, Lukaku, Fellaini and Sanchez without any like for like replacements and now the squad is threadbare and the best striker is a 10-goal-a-season man. Was the risk of injury to players not considered?
- Handed new contracts to Jones, Mata, Young despite claiming he wants to remove deadwood.
- Why are so many players injured (12 isn't it) 9 games into a season? Coincidence? Pure bad luck? Something wrong with training/fitness regimes?
- In-game management seems to be lacking. Subs made too late, system doesn't change, never appears to be a plan B, C or anything but a plan A.
- Won back to back titles with Molde in his first two seasons but finished 6th in his 3rd season, then heading to Cardiff, eventually relegating them and getting the sack.
- Won 9 out of 30 games for Cardiff (win rate of 30%)
- Returns to Molde and wins no titles finishing 5th in 2016, and runners up the following two seasons.
- Since leaving, Molde are now 1st in the league, 5 points clear with 5 games remaining, having lost only 3 of 25.
- Since leaving Molde, they have a win rate this season over 25 games of 68%. Ole's win rate for the club was 55.56%.
- Has a win rate for Manchester United, including the so called honeymoon period, of 47.5%, lower than any United manager since 1981.
- Worse start of a season for 33 years.

Once anybody reads that, they won't need to read the "pros", it's obvious that the job isn't for him.
There are some geniuses on here though, who will still insist that all the negatives (listed above) aren't really negatives and that Ole can turn this around.

 

[sunama]

3) That isn't true. Ole had United performing as well as any time since Fergie retired before the injuries kicked in at the end of last season. We were on a 10 game winning streak before that happened.

A similar situation is taking place this season, too. Injuries have had a severe impact on performances and results.

So, as long as we can guarantee no injuries, Ole is a good manager.
Given that injuries happen every single season, that's not a good argument to make for Ole.

 

[momo83]

1) The following season that very same squad had us languishing in a midtable position, which resulted in Jose getting the sack.

2) LVG & Jose lead us to two top-four finishes in 5 years. Hardly groundbreaking stuff. Not least when you factor in the £750 million that was spent between them to achieve those positions.

3) That isn't true. Ole had United performing as well as any time since Fergie retired before the injuries kicked in at the end of last season. We were on a 10 game winning streak before that happened.

A similar situation is taking place this season, too. Injuries have had a severe impact on performances and results.

1) Jose, the board and the players egos cost us.
2) LVG qualified for the CL 1 in 2 years, Jose qualified 2 out of 2 years. Both took over clubs that were not in the CL.
3) We’ve been crap since February. All the winning streak showed was that the team and mess Ole took over isn’t as bad as he is now making out. Also don’t forget the team went 25 games unbeaten under Jose.

 

[Kemizee]

OK so I think it's time we weighed up the pro's and con's that have been argued throughout this thread and really look at them with open eyes and some real rationale.

Let us start with the arguments against Ole:

- 4 wins in 22 games since PSG.
- Currently 14th in the PL after 9 games;

- 2 points above relegation
- 15 points behind leaders
- GD of +1
- 22.22% win ratio
- 10 points from 9 games​

- 2 wins in last 14 league matches, with 6 draws and 6 defeats.
- Winless away from home in eight matches.
- Haven't scored more than one goal since first game against Chelsea.
- Unable to hold on to a lead, having thrown leads away against Wolves, Southampton, Rochdale, Arsenal and Liverpool.
- Let go of Herrera, Lukaku, Fellaini and Sanchez without any like for like replacements and now the squad is threadbare and the best striker is a 10-goal-a-season man. Was the risk of injury to players not considered?
- Handed new contracts to Jones, Mata, Young despite claiming he wants to remove deadwood.
- Why are so many players injured (12 isn't it) 9 games into a season? Coincidence? Pure bad luck? Something wrong with training/fitness regimes?
- In-game management seems to be lacking. Subs made too late, system doesn't change, never appears to be a plan B, C or anything but a plan A.
- Won back to back titles with Molde in his first two seasons but finished 6th in his 3rd season, then heading to Cardiff, eventually relegating them and getting the sack.
- Won 9 out of 30 games for Cardiff (win rate of 30%)
- Returns to Molde and wins no titles finishing 5th in 2016, and runners up the following two seasons.
- Since leaving, Molde are now 1st in the league, 5 points clear with 5 games remaining, having lost only 3 of 25.
- Since leaving Molde, they have a win rate this season over 25 games of 68%. Ole's win rate for the club was 55.56%.
- Has a win rate for Manchester United, including the so called honeymoon period, of 47.5%, lower than any United manager since 1981.
- Worse start of a season for 33 years.

The arguments for Ole:

- If SAF had been sacked this early we wouldn't have had our many years of eventual success. (SAF had previously won silverware, incl European, for Aberdeen)
- It's a process (despite no visible progress and dire results, see above).
- His signings are good (Jose wanted Maguire, Giggs recommended James), so credit at least for AWB.
- He is a club legend.
- He had an initially good start with United.
- He is a nice guy, always smiling.
- He's giving youth a chance (despite Greenwood, Gomes etc barely playing).
- It has to get worse before it gets better (this one always amazes me).
- We drew against Liverpool.
- It's the United way.
- It's the players, not the manager.
- He has inherited years of bad management so deserves time to sort out the mess.
- Woodward is to blame for all the negatives, Ole is responsible for everything positive.

The thing that really strikes me is that all the negatives are backed up by hard evidence and statistics, yet the positives are somewhat subjective and there are zero stats which can be used to make a positive case for Ole.

Happy for anyone to add anything to either list if they are able to!?

For me, it all points to one thing, the need for Ole to go ASAP. But what do I know.

This is the post that nails it. Everything you need to know about Ole and his time here (positives and negatives).

Now read that carefully again and tell me if the person being described in the post was hypothetically named Magnus Svenson who used to coach Rosenborg in Norway and not Ole Solskjaer, how many with hands on their heart would say he should be our manager let alone defend him vociferously?

 

[el3mel]

OK so I think it's time we weighed up the pro's and con's that have been argued throughout this thread and really look at them with open eyes and some real rationale.

Let us start with the arguments against Ole:

- 4 wins in 22 games since PSG.
- Currently 14th in the PL after 9 games;

- 2 points above relegation
- 15 points behind leaders
- GD of +1
- 22.22% win ratio
- 10 points from 9 games​

- 2 wins in last 14 league matches, with 6 draws and 6 defeats.
- Winless away from home in eight matches.
- Haven't scored more than one goal since first game against Chelsea.
- Unable to hold on to a lead, having thrown leads away against Wolves, Southampton, Rochdale, Arsenal and Liverpool.
- Let go of Herrera, Lukaku, Fellaini and Sanchez without any like for like replacements and now the squad is threadbare and the best striker is a 10-goal-a-season man. Was the risk of injury to players not considered?
- Handed new contracts to Jones, Mata, Young despite claiming he wants to remove deadwood.
- Why are so many players injured (12 isn't it) 9 games into a season? Coincidence? Pure bad luck? Something wrong with training/fitness regimes?
- In-game management seems to be lacking. Subs made too late, system doesn't change, never appears to be a plan B, C or anything but a plan A.
- Won back to back titles with Molde in his first two seasons but finished 6th in his 3rd season, then heading to Cardiff, eventually relegating them and getting the sack.
- Won 9 out of 30 games for Cardiff (win rate of 30%)
- Returns to Molde and wins no titles finishing 5th in 2016, and runners up the following two seasons.
- Since leaving, Molde are now 1st in the league, 5 points clear with 5 games remaining, having lost only 3 of 25.
- Since leaving Molde, they have a win rate this season over 25 games of 68%. Ole's win rate for the club was 55.56%.
- Has a win rate for Manchester United, including the so called honeymoon period, of 47.5%, lower than any United manager since 1981.
- Worse start of a season for 33 years.

The arguments for Ole:

- If SAF had been sacked this early we wouldn't have had our many years of eventual success. (SAF had previously won silverware, incl European, for Aberdeen)
- It's a process (despite no visible progress and dire results, see above).
- His signings are good (Jose wanted Maguire, Giggs recommended James), so credit at least for AWB.
- He is a club legend.
- He had an initially good start with United.
- He is a nice guy, always smiling.
- He's giving youth a chance (despite Greenwood, Gomes etc barely playing).
- It has to get worse before it gets better (this one always amazes me).
- We drew against Liverpool.
- It's the United way.
- It's the players, not the manager.
- He has inherited years of bad management so deserves time to sort out the mess.
- Woodward is to blame for all the negatives, Ole is responsible for everything positive.

The thing that really strikes me is that all the negatives are backed up by hard evidence and statistics, yet the positives are somewhat subjective and there are zero stats which can be used to make a positive case for Ole.

Happy for anyone to add anything to either list if they are able to!?

For me, it all points to one thing, the need for Ole to go ASAP. But what do I know.

Top post that. You left nothing else to be said. Well done.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I think Europa league is our big chance to win anything this season. Hope to see us perform much better against Partizan.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

Molde doesnt seem to be missing Ole that much either. His second spell there wasn't as good as first, and they are about to win the league this season i believe.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

This is the post that nails it. Everything you need to know about Ole and his time here (positives and negatives).

Now read that carefully again and tell me if the person being described in the post was hypothetically named Magnus Svenson who used to coach Rosenborg in Norway and not Ole Solskjaer, how many with hands on their heart would say he should be our manager let alone defend him vociferously?

Thing is, it literally can't be argued against.

If you wrote that list for an anonymous manager and asked the entire United fanbase if they fancied appointing this mystery man, 100% of them would adamantly say "not a chance".

He is honestly just cruising by on sentiment and nothing else, it's bonkers.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

I think Europa league is our big chance to win anything this season. Hope to see us perform much better against Partizan.

We struggled at home to Astana mate, the second we draw a solid team in the knockout stages we're going out with a whimper.

 

[ash_86]

We struggled at home to Astana mate, the second we draw a solid team in the knockout stages we're going out with a whimper.

I'm hoping we draw a good team tbf. We play better against good teams and worse against bad teams. The better the team we draw greater the chance we actually turn up.

 

[Red Dreams]

4 away fixtures in a row.

 

[bleedred]

1) The following season that very same squad had us languishing in a midtable position, which resulted in Jose getting the sack.

2) LVG & Jose lead us to two top-four finishes in 5 years. Hardly groundbreaking stuff. Not least when you factor in the £750 million that was spent between them to achieve those positions.

3) That isn't true. Ole had United performing as well as any time since Fergie retired before the injuries kicked in at the end of last season. We were on a 10 game winning streak before that happened.

A similar situation is taking place this season, too. Injuries have had a severe impact on performances and results.

The peak of our injury crisis was the PSG game. Injured players started coming back after that and towards the end of the season, when we were failing every game, he had almost the full squad. You cannot use injuries as an excuse for those performances.

 

[Random Task]

1) Jose, the board and the players egos cost us.
2) LVG qualified for the CL 1 in 2 years, Jose qualified 2 out of 2 years. Both took over clubs that were not in the CL.
3) We’ve been crap since February. All the winning streak showed was that the team and mess Ole took over isn’t as bad as he is now making out. Also don’t forget the team went 25 games unbeaten under Jose.

1) Agreed.
2) Between them, we finished in the top four on two occasions.
3) Regardless, you were wrong to say we have never played well under Ole. I recall the unbeaten streak under Jose, the majority of those games were drawn.

Truth is, the only time we have resembled a decent attacking side post-Fergie is when Ole first took charge.

 

[Xaviboy]

Next 5 league games is huge for him. If he loses most of them on top of bad performances in Europa league and league cup then I don't see why he doesn't step down or the powers above act.

Hopefully with players back from injury and full strength 11 we will get back to winning them games.

 

[Red Dreams]

1) Agreed.
2) Between them, we finished in the top four on two occasions.
3) Regardless, you were wrong to say we have never played well under Ole. I recall the unbeaten streak under Jose, the majority of those games were drawn.

Truth is, the only time we have resembled a decent attacking side post-Fergie is when Ole first took charge.

agree.
We were never the same after the Liverpool match, which we should have won even after the injuries.

 

[sammsky1]

The thing that really strikes me is that all the negatives are backed up by hard evidence and statistics, yet the positives are somewhat subjective and there are zero stats which can be used to make a positive case for Ole.

I don't necessarily disagree with you and am also not fully convinced that OGS has the toolkit to make it.

However the issue I have with your conclusion is that you're saying that people have to be successful straight away, else they are a failure. The SAF example is helpful because it showed that the solving this clubs issues takes many years even for a very talented man, who also had to 'learn on the job' as he went forward. And we've seen that 'very talented and experienced' men like LVG and Mourinho struggled for various stylistic and cultural reasons.

Klopp and Pep both inherited improving sides on the upward trajectory and has limited issues to solve. OGS inherited a disjointed and disillusioned squad quickly falling downwards. It was a clusterfcuk of issues, which would take even the most suitable candidate many months to untangle, and that's before they could start putting it right. Maybe, just maybe, he's still in the untangling phase because we are that messed up, and maybe, just maybe, he will solve the problems with amazing solutions in the few years ahead.

I don't see the benefit in sacking him now, all it does it pander to short term instant gratification. And 'the manager' isn't even our biggest issue, rather its the structure around him. Anyways Woodward's recent interview categorically states that OGS will be given time to 'see how it plays out' So you're wasting your time and energy making the case to get him sacked. Far better to use your time supporting your manager for now.

 

[Hawks2008]

This is the post that nails it. Everything you need to know about Ole and his time here (positives and negatives).

Now read that carefully again and tell me if the person being described in the post was hypothetically named Magnus Svenson who used to coach Rosenborg in Norway and not Ole Solskjaer, how many with hands on their heart would say he should be our manager let alone defend him vociferously?

That really is the heart of the Ole in argument, he's a United legend and that's it. I just wish they would at least be honest and say that is why they want to keep him instead of all the inane excuses they cough up.

 

[Stacks]

OK so I think it's time we weighed up the pro's and con's that have been argued throughout this thread and really look at them with open eyes and some real rationale.

Let us start with the arguments against Ole:

- 4 wins in 22 games since PSG.
- Currently 14th in the PL after 9 games;

- 2 points above relegation
- 15 points behind leaders
- GD of +1
- 22.22% win ratio
- 10 points from 9 games​

- 2 wins in last 14 league matches, with 6 draws and 6 defeats.
- Winless away from home in eight matches.
- Haven't scored more than one goal since first game against Chelsea.
- Unable to hold on to a lead, having thrown leads away against Wolves, Southampton, Rochdale, Arsenal and Liverpool.
- Let go of Herrera, Lukaku, Fellaini and Sanchez without any like for like replacements and now the squad is threadbare and the best striker is a 10-goal-a-season man. Was the risk of injury to players not considered?
- Handed new contracts to Jones, Mata, Young despite claiming he wants to remove deadwood.
- Why are so many players injured (12 isn't it) 9 games into a season? Coincidence? Pure bad luck? Something wrong with training/fitness regimes?
- In-game management seems to be lacking. Subs made too late, system doesn't change, never appears to be a plan B, C or anything but a plan A.
- Won back to back titles with Molde in his first two seasons but finished 6th in his 3rd season, then heading to Cardiff, eventually relegating them and getting the sack.
- Won 9 out of 30 games for Cardiff (win rate of 30%)
- Returns to Molde and wins no titles finishing 5th in 2016, and runners up the following two seasons.
- Since leaving, Molde are now 1st in the league, 5 points clear with 5 games remaining, having lost only 3 of 25.
- Since leaving Molde, they have a win rate this season over 25 games of 68%. Ole's win rate for the club was 55.56%.
- Has a win rate for Manchester United, including the so called honeymoon period, of 47.5%, lower than any United manager since 1981.
- Worse start of a season for 33 years.

The arguments for Ole:

- If SAF had been sacked this early we wouldn't have had our many years of eventual success. (SAF had previously won silverware, incl European, for Aberdeen)
- It's a process (despite no visible progress and dire results, see above).
- His signings are good (Jose wanted Maguire, Giggs recommended James), so credit at least for AWB.
- He is a club legend.
- He had an initially good start with United.
- He is a nice guy, always smiling.
- He's giving youth a chance (despite Greenwood, Gomes etc barely playing).
- It has to get worse before it gets better (this one always amazes me).
- We drew against Liverpool.
- It's the United way.
- It's the players, not the manager.
- He has inherited years of bad management so deserves time to sort out the mess.
- Woodward is to blame for all the negatives, Ole is responsible for everything positive.

The thing that really strikes me is that all the negatives are backed up by hard evidence and statistics, yet the positives are somewhat subjective and there are zero stats which can be used to make a positive case for Ole.

Happy for anyone to add anything to either list if they are able to!?

For me, it all points to one thing, the need for Ole to go ASAP. But what do I know.

Not very balance but the list is so long it made me a bit burp.

1) The following season that very same squad had us languishing in a midtable position, which resulted in Jose getting the sack.

2) LVG & Jose lead us to two top-four finishes in 5 years. Hardly groundbreaking stuff. Not least when you factor in the £750 million that was spent between them to achieve those positions.

3) That isn't true. Ole had United performing as well as any time since Fergie retired before the injuries kicked in at the end of last season. We were on a 10 game winning streak before that happened.

A similar situation is taking place this season, too. Injuries have had a severe impact on performances and results.

1)The squad were languishing mid table as Jose had given up in the Summer and thrown the season. It was more unprofessional behaviour from him which filtered down to the players. He wanted the sack.
2)LVG got top 4 in debut season then narrowly missed out by goal difference whilst winning the FA Cup. That would be ground breaking for Ole. Jose qualified or CL back 2 back seasons when he tried as well as 2 trophies and another final. The 1st season under him I actually had optimism and enjoyed us winning the 2 finals. He was not the best fit for us I admit but he got results. He made terrible signings but managed his way out of it. Then he self destructed

3) if you analyse the games we were very fortunate to win many and Barely performed for large spells of matches. Our emotion made us ignorant to the warnings

 

[momo83]

1) Agreed.
2) Between them, we finished in the top four on two occasions.
3) Regardless, you were wrong to say we have never played well under Ole. I recall the unbeaten streak under Jose, the majority of those games were drawn.

Truth is, the only time we have resembled a decent attacking side post-Fergie is when Ole first took charge.

I never said we have never played well under Ole. But I think some people are placing to much emphasis on the 10 match win streak and also contradicting themselves by using it.

At its most simple. The narrative,
now has, conveniently, shifted to Ole took over such a big pile of rubbish. Then how comes the team he inherited was able to go on a 10 match winning spree the minute he took over ?

I’d argue, that and the fact that the team finished second only 6 months before shows that the team was not as bad as Ole NOW makes out and he's mismanagement and bad coaching has made it worse.

Also a manager/coach influence takes hold and becomes more noticeable after 3 months, not the minute they take over.

 

[ash_86]

I never said we have never played well under Ole. But I think some people are placing to much emphasis on the 10 match win streak and also contradicting themselves by using it.

At its most simple. The narrative,
now has, conveniently, shifted to Ole took over such a big pile of rubbish. Then how comes the team he inherited was able to go on a 10 match winning spree the minute he took over ?

I’d argue, that and the fact that the team finished second only 6 months before shows that the team was not as bad as Ole NOW makes out and he's mismanagement and bad coaching has made it worse.

Also a manager/coach influence takes hold and becomes more noticeable after 3 months, not the minute they take over.

Weren't you the one praising Lampard in every other post then? You're contradicting yourself now.

 

[AC1689]

Not very balance but the list is so long it made me a bit burp.

Looking back, I think it is near impossible to create a balanced list of pro's and con's, because there are just far too many negatives that simply cannot be overlooked. I am yet to hear a well constructed and logical argument for keeping him as manager. It seems to me now that people just believe that given time (that he should simply not be afforded) he will eventually come good.

But why!? Were the statistics I listed not enough to convince people he is out of his depth? Does the fact that Molde are now performing better since his departure not say something about him? Erling Moe is their new manager and appears to be doing a better job (13% increase on win rate). His managerial experience is as head coach of Traeff in Norway's 3rd tier where he relegated them to 4th tier, and then had half a season managing 3rd tier Kristiansund. A manager who has relegated a 3rd tier Norwegian club to 4th tier and only has experience as a manager in that 3rd tier is doing a better job than our current manager did at Molde. Does this not ring alarm bells to anyone? If he isn't even good enough to get the best out of a team in Norway's Eliteserirn, then why do people assume he is going to be our saviour? His English Football League record speaks for itself (see Cardiff and current tenure at Manchester United).

This sentimentality, and I'm sorry but that is what it is, completely and utterly, will be our downfall and could see us in a very precarious situation that will be a tremendously arduous task to recover from.

 

[momo83]

Weren't you the one praising Lampard in every other post then? You're contradicting yourself now.

Lampard been with them since 4th July.

 

[Samid]

Presser if anyone's interested:

 

[Stacks]

Looking back, I think it is near impossible to create a balanced list of pro's and con's, because there are just far too many negatives that simply cannot be overlooked. I am yet to hear a well constructed and logical argument for keeping him as manager. It seems to me now that people just believe that given time (that he should simply not be afforded) he will eventually come good.

But why!? Were the statistics I listed not enough to convince people he is out of his depth? Does the fact that Molde are now performing better since his departure not say something about him? Erling Moe is their new manager and appears to be doing a better job (13% increase on win rate). His managerial experience is as head coach of Traeff in Norway's 3rd tier where he relegated them to 4th tier, and then had half a season managing 3rd tier Kristiansund. A manager who has relegated a 3rd tier Norwegian club to 4th tier and only has experience as a manager in that 3rd tier is doing a better job than our current manager did at Molde. Does this not ring alarm bells to anyone? If he isn't even good enough to get the best out of a team in Norway's Eliteserirn, then why do people assume he is going to be our saviour? His English Football League record speaks for itself (see Cardiff and current tenure at Manchester United).

This sentimentality, and I'm sorry but that is what it is, completely and utterly, will be our downfall and could see us in a very precarious situation that will be a tremendously arduous task to recover from.

I agreed with most of it and it scares me

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I think Europa league is our big chance to win anything this season. Hope to see us perform much better against Partizan.

Can't see it happening to be honest.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I think Europa league is our big chance to win anything this season. Hope to see us perform much better against Partizan.

We have 4 wins in 20 games. Not a chance.

 

[rotherham_red]

Can't see it happening to be honest.

We have 4 wins in 20 games. Not a chance.

Do you remember Liverpool winning the Champions fecking League in 2005? That same team was a legitimate embarrassment in the league and domestic cups that season but got on a run in Europe and had (a lot of) luck on the way.

We're talking about the EL here, not the crème de la crème.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Do you remember Liverpool winning the Champions fecking League in 2005? That same team was a legitimate embarrassment in the league and domestic cups that season but got on a run in Europe and had (a lot of) luck on the way.

We're talking about the EL here, not the crème de la crème.

Right so a complete once off with Liverpool (still a better side than us) in the CL means that we have a realistic chance of winning the Europa? Sounds logic there.

The EL tends to have a lot of very good sides once you get down to the last 8/4. A hell of a lot of better sides than us, that's for sure.

 

[rotherham_red]

Right so a complete once off with Liverpool (still a better side than us) in the CL means that we have a realistic chance of winning the Europa? Sounds logic there.

The EL tends to have a lot of very good sides once you get down to the last 8/4. A hell of a lot of better sides than us, that's for sure.

It's not really a one-off though, is it? Porto did exactly the same the year previous and Milan were the same in 2007. I'm sure it's happened plenty of times when it was known as the European Cup as well... It's a cup competition, by it's very definition it's not always been a competition which rewards the best teams competing within it.

Again, the EL is not the Champions League. These very good sides as you call them, are in the competition for a reason. They are in the same boat as us. Anyone can beat anyone within that cluster, and I include us within it.

 

[Massive Spanner]

It's not really a one-off though, is it? Porto did exactly the same the year previous and Milan were the same in 2007. I'm sure it's happened plenty of times when it was known as the European Cup as well... It's a cup competition, by it's very definition it's not always been a competition which rewards the best teams competing within it.

Again, the EL is not the Champions League. These very good sides as you call them, are in the competition for a reason. They are in the same boat as us. Anyone can beat anyone within that cluster, and I include us within it.

Porto and Milan were excellent sides, though. You simply can't compare them to us. Liverpool even were a better side than us when they won it.

The point is that the idea that the Europa is some really realistic option for us to win is silly. In fact your own argument counteracts that because as you say, upsets are very possible and the team you'd expect to win won't always win (despite the team you'd expect to win winning it pretty much every season this decade, but whatever), meaning it's far from a predictable tournament. So sure, maybe we could win it, if we got incredibly lucky, but it's not exactly something we should be betting on.

 

[Samid]

What does he tell the players at HT?!

 

[Andycoleno9]

Club big as United should play attacking football and win games. Ok, lets say that we don't have squad for all that so at least we should have one of that. But we don't. fecking Bournemouth and Norwich are playing attacking football. Sure,they lose games but their fans at least enjoy in football. We don't have nothing. This is the worst United in my 40 years of life

 

[Eric7C]

What does he tell the players at HT?!

"We are 1-0 up, lads. Can you believe it?"

 

[Andycoleno9]

"We are 1-0 up, lads. Can you believe it?"

 

[dove]

Club big as United should play attacking football and win games. Ok, lets say that we don't have squad for all that so at least we should have one of that. But we don't. fecking Bournemouth and Norwich are playing attacking football. Sure,they lose games but their fans at least enjoy in football. We don't have nothing. This is the worst United in my 40 years of life

Needs 8 years and £1b to implement his style, relax.

 

[AltiUn]

I’ve never seen a manager with worse tactics for the midfield, genuinely baffling how badly he’s set up our midfield.

 

[dove]

This match against Partizan is a carbon copy of all matches where we go 1-0 up (rarely but it happens). What do we do? Give up all possession and go ultra defensive, usually conceding a goal. Terrible.

 

[AltiUn]

This match against Partizan is a carbon copy of all matches where we go 1-0 up (rarely but it happens). What do we do? Give up all possession and go ultra defensive, usually conceding a goal. Terrible.

We go up a fair bit we just can’t hold onto a lead.