Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[VP89]

Ole was the one who came out and said that his transfer targets were not available. We can blame Woodward for many things but not for the football we play. He may have not agreed to pay a lot of money for players but he paid 80million for Maguire. So it is the manager's decision to select the players he wants. Leicester for Tielemans and Soyuncu for only 64 million. Now they play better than anyone at Manchester United. They still have 16 million from the sale of Maguire to us.
Wouldn't it have been better to get two players or someone of that calibre instead of spending a lump sum on Maguire?
Ole is making the same mistake Moyes made. That the name of Manchester United alone is not enough attraction. No it was the name of the club plus the name of the best manager that got the big name players to United.
Ask yourself? take the United fan hat off. Would you as a professional football player , play for Pep, Klopp or Ole Gunnar? The first two will get you trophies and and more name and more commercial deals while the third has no guarantee at all of getting you a trophy and play for a mid table club. Just like Liverpool was before Klopp took over. A club with a history only. They kept changing managers and big name managers till they got the right one who has won the Bundesliga and took Dortmund to the CL Finals.

Transfers are an issue not bound to the manager. Woodward has made errors buying single players on lump sums when a combination of others would have been better. Di Maria for LVG, Pogba for Jose, Maguire for Ole.

There has to be a point where you stop and think, from a perspective of transfers, who is the real problem here.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Dybala never rejected us. The player was willing to move but conditions of which neither Inter, Dybala or MUFC had any control made the deal impossible. Dybala was very public about not wanting to leave Juve, but understood that he was being forced out and serious talks aboutt he transfer were conduced over 2 days I believe it was.

Lukaku went to Ole and told him that he did not want to be int he club any longer, given his perceived role in the team, so they went out and looked at option for the player, that' how the Dybala stunt ultimately came to pass.

I'm sorry but your impression of the transfer market and the clubs business is just factually incorrect.

Problem we now have there is that Dybala has looked pretty decent for Juve and their other striking options are getting old.

 

[Foxbatt]

Transfers are an issue not bound to the manager. Woodward has made errors buying single players on lump sums when a combination of others would have been better. Di Maria for LVG, Pogba for Jose, Maguire for Ole.

There has to be a point where you stop and think, from a perspective of transfers, who is the real problem here.

This is exactly why it is the manager's responsibility. Woodward deals the money. To him it doesn't matter if its Dybala or Maguire or anyone else. It is the manager who decides who the player they select. If LVG has said he does not categorically want Di Maria there is no way the Board would have sanctioned it. LVG was OK with it so that is why they bought him. The same with Pogba and Maguire. It is the manager's choice. He is given a budget and then he decides the ones he wants or not.

 

[Gasolin]

Never ever compare gegenpressing to what United do. There's much more pressing by the midfield in Klopp and Pep's system. And the passing is light years faster. Liverpool extensively use their full backs to switch play, both as outlets etc...It's about as close in tempo and intent as a panenka is to a bicycle kick.

I don't agree with the strategy or the execution. United were way down last year in % of possession won in the final third. With the ball, you have to develop relationships on the training ground for combination play. The only two who have it on the level you need to be elite are Martial and Pogba. Liverpool's reserves looked 100 times more cohesive against Everton than United's starting XI.

I'm looking at the total picture, not a game against City with a depleted back 4. I'm not saying they don't actually train with a game plan. I'm saying the system is inadequate and many players are not improving or look worse. In the last 10 seasons, 31 points is about 8th at this stage in the season.

United are 9th in shots from inside the penalty area. 8th in passes completed within 20 yards of goal. (City and Liv are 1 and 2). Sorry, it's pathetic. And most importantly it's not even remotely on a trajectory to being competitive in the next few seasons.

Maybe you did not read what I wrote about those 2 games but against City, we did not press that much, or the only one we tried to press to put him out of position was Walker. Against Spurs, we pressed.

You say our tempo is low. Have you seen when City pressed us at 2:0 and De Gea played to Lindelof who was on the right? Sterling comes for the pressing, Scott moves in to offer an option, Silva is tracking him, so he does a one touch to AWB who passes to Martial who also had Angelino, but they couldn't take the ball, and then, the ball moved forward. The speed of transition from there is probably way faster than most teams in the league, so how can you say our tempo is low? We clearly aim for a very high tempo.

You say our pressing is bad? Since you love stats, check our pressing rate. We have nothing to envy to City or Liverpool when it comes to pressing rate, or pressing intensity. But those 2 teams have been now pressing for several seasons, and that's why it seems more natural, but to not see how our pressing has improved is really really fallacious at this point. A bad execution at some point with the ball should not hide the reality on that front.

I am also looking at the total picture and for me, games show what we are trying to do. Again, I am not saying everything is perfect, but clearly the ideas are there to match any other teams. But if the ideas are there and players fail to execute, it could just mean that it takes time to ingrain that in their life style.

PS: I don't know where you get your stats but if you have stats to share, share the link too.

 

[el3mel]

Dybala never rejected us. The player was willing to move but conditions of which neither Inter, Dybala or MUFC had any control made the deal impossible. Dybala was very public about not wanting to leave Juve, but understood that he was being forced out and serious talks aboutt he transfer were conduced over 2 days I believe it was.

Lukaku went to Ole and told him that he did not want to be int he club any longer, given his perceived role in the team, so they went out and looked at option for the player, that' how the Dybala stunt ultimately came to pass.

I'm sorry but your impression of the transfer market and the clubs business is just factually incorrect.

"It wasn’t an easy summer,” he told Corriere della Sera. “Hearing your name linked to every team and every place, where you don’t want to go, isn’t a nice thing.

“But this is football, even if before the transfer window opened I said: ‘I want to stay here’. I think it was more important to let [my performances on] the pitch do the talking, even if until the last day no one knew what would happen.

"don't want to go" What more do you want? Coming from the player's mouth himself. The guy rejected us, and asked for giga wages and salary to force the deal off.

As for Lukaku, so what, guy is under contract. We are in control of his situation not him. We could have always kept him and he would have nothing to do except playing and shutting up. It's not his choice. Could have always kept him for one more year considering we sold him on the last day of the market after we had already failed to sign a replacement. Though I won't take his quotes seriously anymore considering how many times he changes his words from one quote to the next. He talked about leaving United 3 or 4 times, each time completely different from the other. Sometimes it was the club who wanted him out, next time it was him. It doesn't change much though. He was still under contract and we were the one under control not him. We have proven that by keeping Pogba till now.

So you are saying the Dybala stunt came completely out of chance? Because that was it. We were negotiating for his price with Inter the whole summer and suddenly Juve wanted to hijack the deal and offer us Dybala, but the player didn't want to come here, so decided to feck up the deal by asking for giga salary and the deal was put off.

Were we the ones approaching Juve? Nope.

Did we try to offer Lukaku to Juve to get their player i. e. The other way around? Nope.

So that's about it for that deal I guess.

As for my impression on the market, meh, I'm fine with how it's, better then being deluded and pretending the manager is a puppet even though the guy himself said he had the ultimate choice in each transfer :

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...skjaer-manchester-united-transfers-paul-pogba

Kinda ironic though how the tone here shifted from Mourinho and LvG from blaming the manager for transfers failure and saying "buck stops with the manager" for now giving credit for Ole for any good bit of a business and blaming everyone else for any market failure. Not much of a difference though. Almost every previous narrative has been twisted and changed to make Ole look blameless.

 

[Tom Cato]

"don't want to go" What more do you want? Coming from the player's mouth himself. The guy rejected us, and asked for giga wages and salary to force the deal off.

As for Lukaku, so what, guy is under contract. We are in control of his situation not him. We could have always kept him and he would have nothing to do except playing and shutting up. It's not his choice. Could have always kept him for one more year considering we sold him on the last day of the market after we had already failed to sign a replacement. Though I won't take his quotes seriously anymore considering how many times he changes his words from one quote to the next. He talked about leaving United 3 or 4 times, each time completely different from the other. Sometimes it was the club who wanted him out, next time it was him. It doesn't change much though. He was still under contract and we were the one under control not him. We have proven that by keeping Pogba till now.

So you are saying the Dybala stunt came completely out of chance? Because that was it. We were negotiating for his price with Inter the whole summer and suddenly Juve wanted to hijack the deal and offer us Dybala, but the player didn't want to come here, so decided to feck up the deal by asking for giga salary and the deal was put off.

Were we the ones approaching Juve? Nope.

Did we try to offer Lukaku to Juve to get their player i. e. The other way around? Nope.

So that's about it for that deal I guess.

As for my impression on the market, meh, I'm fine with how it's, better then being deluded and pretending the manager is a puppet even though the guy himself said he had the ultimate choice in each transfer :

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...skjaer-manchester-united-transfers-paul-pogba

Kinda ironic though how the tone here shifted from Mourinho and LvG from blaming the manager for transfers failure and saying "buck stops with the manager" for now giving credit for Ole for any good bit of a business and blaming everyone else for any market failure. Not much of a difference though. Almost every previous narrative has been twisted and changed to make Ole look blameless.

There is a difference between not wanting to leave his club, and accepting that he has to leave in the end, being forced out by the manager.

Dybalas wages were not a hindrance to getting this deal done, his imaging rights however made the deal too financially complicated, a factor not decided by Dybala or Juventus. A third party (Dybalas former agency) owns his imaging rights and Dybala is currently in a drawn out litigation battle regarding this very factor. Having this third party in play for the players imaging rights meant that MUFC could not use the players likeness in any way shape or form without paying a unknown amount, a completely unacceptable situation.

Tottenham tried to land the same deal after us and were equally unsuccessful.

The managers do not have anything to do with the club transfer business. That is in the hand of Matt Judge, Ed Woodward's right hand man and chief of negotiations at MUFC. The managers hand the chief executive a list of players they want, and transfer funds are allocated either by the board, or taken from the annual transfer budget of which Woodward oversees.

So I'm happy to blame someone else than the managers for the lack of transfers, yes absolutely.

 

[Mainoldo]

Pogba? And the full package of Raiola clients that came along with him?

How tragic we ended up with one of footballs best players. Lord forbid this happens again and we get Mbappe.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Liverpool is a counter attacking team. A lot of teams are counter attacking teams (Athletico, even Juventus to some extend, etc...), the ball possession is just more frequent when the opponent fears you.

Anyway, some games show that it’s not just counter attacking but it’s a pressing and counter pressing that aim to control where we want the ball to go. We have games where we do not press, e.g. City, but we also have games where we press pretty well, e.g. Spurs. You can’t say this team is not being coached in that regard when games show it. Again, going back to my theorem analogy but if you can find counter examples, the theorem is invalid in mathematics. The theorem to say we do not have a pressing strategy or that we do not press well is wrong, pressing is not just about getting the ball back right away, it’s also forcing the ball to go where we want, which in our case is mostly the right side where we don’t have to defend in numbers, etc... we should also note that the way we defend is not always the same so clearly there are some adaptations that are discussed and prepared.

Now if you have clear instructions that are simple but effective and you have individual mistakes for whatever reason, does that somehow erase all the instructions?!? Cause that’s what you’re saying.

LVG had one of the best defensive setup in the world and tactically he was a nerd. This is a guy who congratulated Herrera because he took one control before shooting (and scoring) in the box on a low cross, because that would increase the probability of scoring. He brought a lot of interesting things including high lines and compactness to remove space for the opponents etc but he didn’t like training for offensive actions. For him, that was where the talent should express itself. Fine.

Jose play compact but way lower and likes the go up there fast. Also a guy who doesn’t overly train offensive patterns because again, talent.

Sure, on paper, it sounds familiar but you would be blind to not see the difference between the Spurs game (high line, a lot of pressing and counter pressing to get the ball on the right and then press the full back) vs the City game (low line, zero pressing almost and the only full back we pressed was Walker to get him out of position). Which means we change and adapt the setup. Offensively, we do not hoof the ball now, we try to go through the middle and break lines. We may fail more often than not, but intentions and instructions, which are down to the manager, are there and being executed.

We can always argue about some of the instructions on the offensive aspect, on why Lingard didn’t pass the ball faster when he intercepted against Arsenal early on, why we didn’t do this or that, but in other games, we press the full back with Pereira and we pass it to Martial to score. We can also argue why we do not seem to be able to get anything out of corners, but we don’t know what’s being trained or not. Maybe we still have positional issues and the players are not fully able to execute, so we need to keep drilling it, who knows? But to say Ole is simply out of depth is fallacious. There are progress but it’s taking time

Ole has been in charge for over a year now and you can only sight one game (Tottenham) where we've pressed well. Are the rest of the games down to the players not following instructions? Your point would be much more understandable if you could provide at least three games where we've pressed well. Three isn't even enough because the high press we did against Tottenham has been established as a part of our style of play and should be evident in a lot of games we've played.

 

[el3mel]

There is a difference between not wanting to leave his club, and accepting that he has to leave in the end, being forced out by the manager.

Dybalas wages were not a hindrance to getting this deal done, his imaging rights however made the deal too financially complicated, a factor not decided by Dybala or Juventus. A third party (Dybalas former agency) owns his imaging rights and Dybala is currently in a drawn out litigation battle regarding this very factor. Having this third party in play for the players imaging rights meant that MUFC could not use the players likeness in any way shape or form without paying a unknown amount, a completely unacceptable situation.

Tottenham tried to land the same deal after us and were equally unsuccessful.

The managers do not have anything to do with the club transfer business. That is in the hand of Matt Judge, Ed Woodward's right hand man and chief of negotiations at MUFC. The managers hand the chief executive a list of players they want, and transfer funds are allocated either by the board, or taken from the annual transfer budget of which Woodward oversees.

So I'm happy to blame someone else than the managers for the lack of transfers, yes absolutely.

I'm sorry but I don't even know what you're talking about regarding Dybala.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49275277

Tottenham's proposed move for Paulo Dybala is off after Juventus decided not to sell the 25-year-old forward.

Manchester United ended their talks with the Argentine earlier this month because of his wage demands

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ull-plug-paulo-dybala-deal-amid-reservations/

But Telegraph Sport understands that United have decided to pull the plug on that potential swap deal due to Dybala’s reluctance to leave Juventus, the Argentine’s huge wage demands and exorbitant agents’ fees.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49230085

Manchester United have ended talks with Paulo Dybala because of the Juventus striker's wage demands.

United entered talks with the Argentine, 25, as part of a proposed swap deal involving Romelu Lukaku, 26.

However, they were dubious about whether Dybala wanted to join them.

United boss Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has targeted young, hungry players and Old Trafford officials decided that further bids for Dybala would be a move away from that.

So the manager doesn't have anything to do with the club transfer business even though he hands the list of the players they want ? Ok then, what are these main players the manager asked for before the summer starts and the club failed to land for him ?

 

[Gasolin]

Ole has been in charge for over a year now and you can only sight one game (Tottenham) where we've pressed well. Are the rest of the games down to the players not following instructions? Your point would be much more understandable if you could provide at least three games where we've pressed well. Three isn't even enough because the high press we did against Tottenham has been established as a part of our style of play and should be evident in a lot of games we've played.

One game? No, our pressing stat is pretty much up there. I chose one game as an example but we have other games where we do press well. We also run a lot to cover ground and force the ball into areas that interest us. Some say it's running without purpose, but I disagree, if anything, instructions are given and they seem to be pretty clear. We are one of the best pressing team per se in the league. Our problems are different but they do not come from the tactics regarding pressing.

 

[Foxbatt]

Look at your previous posts saying our squad isn't even top10 before season, suddenly it's "Give this squad to anyone and they do better than 5th"

It's Haaland and he didn't refuse to come to United, United refuse to sign someone just for quick fix and include buyout clause and 40% profit from sale, similar with Dybala. We don't know if Ole had been talking about future transfer after next or in 2 seasons, by using buyout clause in current Dortmund contract and when Haaland is actually ready for EPL.

We don't need superstars, not even Messi would be a fix to this side, because all our squad is no where near their prime and it will take at least 1-2 more seasons before more than half of our long-term players will actually become top level.

We need to have good English core, tough players who can play throughout season with more stability, no point in signing some superstar names that will be unsatisfied with not fighting for EPL title or will be here to collect paycheck and not give his 100% each game.

Feel free to quote me in 2 seasons time, but I'm pretty sure you'll have changed sides since then.

How can I say that this team was not even top 10 the previous season when it was 2nd? Yes any decent manager will do better than we are right now. This core British players are simply not good enough to rebuild otherwise England would have already won the WC or the Euros. Yes no need to sign superstars right now I agree but this fantasy of British players are good enough is a lot of bunkum,
As for two years I am sure Ole Gunnar would not be here

 

[Bilbo]

One game? No, our pressing stat is pretty much up there. I chose one game as an example but we have other games where we do press well. We also run a lot to cover ground and force the ball into areas that interest us. Some say it's running without purpose, but I disagree, if anything, instructions are given and they seem to be pretty clear. We are one of the best pressing team per se in the league. Our problems are different but they do not come from the tactics regarding pressing.

I've enjoyed reading your posts today, and agree with you. It really bugs me to read endless posts from armchair analysts about our coaching & strategy being non-existent when its clear that this not the case.

 

[MUFromLTU]

As for two years I am sure Ole Gunnar would not be here

You're in for a disappointment then

 

[VP89]

This is exactly why it is the manager's responsibility. Woodward deals the money. To him it doesn't matter if its Dybala or Maguire or anyone else. It is the manager who decides who the player they select. If LVG has said he does not categorically want Di Maria there is no way the Board would have sanctioned it. LVG was OK with it so that is why they bought him. The same with Pogba and Maguire. It is the manager's choice. He is given a budget and then he decides the ones he wants or not.

Sure, but the manager doesn't solely decide how much to spend on a player. At least from what we know, the manager in our structure would sign off "yeah I like him" or "no I don't think he fits", and Woodward/Matt Judge would go out and execute the deal.

There are multiple problems with it, an obvious one is it being disjointed internally and us needing a DoF. The issue isn't solely on the manager in this instance though, it's more the infrastructure which drives the club.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

One game? No, our pressing stat is pretty much up there. I chose one game as an example but we have other games where we do press well. We also run a lot to cover ground and force the ball into areas that interest us. Some say it's running without purpose, but I disagree, if anything, instructions are given and they seem to be pretty clear. We are one of the best pressing team per se in the league. Our problems are different but they do not come from the tactics regarding pressing.

If you do think we have games where we pressed well then surely you know those games. Mention them?

I'm not trying to start an argument but I think our pressing is not good enough and it's really surprising and even intriguing that someone likes the way we press

 

[Lee565]

Yeah cos the last 7 fecking years have shown that, haven't they?

Tbf he did say decent, none of our managers post fergie have been good,

Moyes level is mid-table,

van Gaal was a good club manager about 10-20 years ago, I know he did well with Holland but international football is different, many managers not fit to manage top club sides have done well on the international scene.

Mourinho is a spent force and its showing with spurs who supposedly have a team better than ours and far more suited to how Mourinho wants to play but is still struggling.

 

[Tom Cato]

I'm sorry but I don't even know what you're talking about regarding Dybala.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49275277

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ull-plug-paulo-dybala-deal-amid-reservations/

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49230085

So the manager doesn't have anything to do with the club transfer business even though he hands the list of the players they want ? Ok then, what are these main players the manager asked for before the summer starts and the club failed to land for him ?

That is not what happened at all. Here is a simple write up for the layman regarding the image rights and IP. https://www.worldtrademarkreview.co...highlights-growing-importance-ip-sports-stars

Also, what are you talking about? I literally just explained this, there is no way you don't understand what I'm writing.

The managers do not have anything to do with the club transfer business. That is in the hand of Matt Judge, Ed Woodward's right hand man and chief of negotiations at MUFC. The managers hand the chief executive a list of players they want, and transfer funds are allocated either by the board, or taken from the annual transfer budget of which Woodward oversees.


I'll expalin the bolded so you don't have to mince my words, again:

1) Club Transfer Business = The act itself of signing the player. Establishing contact with the players club, agent, getting permission to talk to the player, secure personal terms and agree on term with selling club and agent. That is conducting the business.
2) Manager hands chief executive a target list = Exactly what I wrote. The managers job ends after that. Either he get's his man or he doesn't. Sometimes the manager will be in touch with the player personally to convince him this is the right move, or to explain the project. But he is not involved in the transfer business.

 

[Gasolin]

If you do think we have games where we pressed well then surely you know those games. Mention them?

I'm not trying to start an argument but I think our pressing is not good enough and it's really surprising and even intriguing that someone likes the way we press

Can someone share the PPDA ranking over time for the EPL teams to showcase this point?

"Passes allowed per defensive action (in the opposition half): PPDA measures how quickly a club lets the opposition circulate possession before engaging in a tackle, interception, challenge, or foul.

https://www.theringer.com/soccer/20...2018-2019-ringer-soccer-watchability-rankings

I don't remember all the games but I do remember that we were pressing well and it was visible. Recently, we have alternated, and I think I saw a thread about that here too, how our PPDA is dropping. We need to understand why, but it doesn't question how we want to play. Maybe I'll just float the idea that fitness is not always an exact science but it does influence our way of playing.

 

[el3mel]

That is not what happened at all. Here is a simple write up for the layman regarding the image rights and IP. https://www.worldtrademarkreview.co...highlights-growing-importance-ip-sports-stars

Also, what are you talking about? I literally just explained this, there is no way you don't understand what I'm writing.

The managers do not have anything to do with the club transfer business. That is in the hand of Matt Judge, Ed Woodward's right hand man and chief of negotiations at MUFC. The managers hand the chief executive a list of players they want, and transfer funds are allocated either by the board, or taken from the annual transfer budget of which Woodward oversees.


I'll expalin the bolded so you don't have to mince my words, again:

1) Club Transfer Business = The act itself of signing the player. Establishing contact with the players club, agent, getting permission to talk to the player, secure personal terms and agree on term with selling club and agent. That is conducting the business.
2) Manager hands chief executive a target list = Exactly what I wrote. The managers job ends after that. Either he get's his man or he doesn't. Sometimes the manager will be in touch with the player personally to convince him this is the right move, or to explain the project. But he is not involved in the transfer business.

The article you have posted is literally basing it on report from the Sun who are copying it from Mail. Great sources, definitely more respectful than BBC or Telegraph.

As for what you wrote about transfers. You can write as much as you want, the fact if there's no targets asked by the manager no one is going to negotiate for them and thus we can't blame anyone in the board. We can blame the board when they fail to land the manager's target but that is not what happened. The reality is Ole got exactly all his top targets bar one (Longstaff) and that's about it. Were we negotiating with a top striker Ole asked for in summer and failed to land the deal? Nope. What is that related to what you are talking about then? Again what were Ole's targets that the board couldn't land to say they let him down?

 

[dev1l]

The article you have posted is literally basing it on report from the Sun who are copying it from Mail. Great sources, definitely more respectful than BBC or Telegraph.

As for what you wrote about transfers. You can write as much as you want, the fact if there's no targets asked by the manager no one is going to negotiate for them and thus we can't blame anyone in the board. We can blame the board when they fail to land the manager's target but that is not what happened. The reality is Ole got exactly all his top targets bar one (Longstaff) and that's about it. Were we negotiating with a top striker Ole asked for in summer and failed to land the deal? Nope. What is that related to what you are talking about then? Again what were Ole's targets that the board couldn't land to say they let him down?

So you re saying we were not interested in Dybala?

 

[el3mel]

So you re saying we were not interested in Dybala?

Nope. He was offered to us by Juve for Lukaku and that was about it. We weren't the one who approached Juve for him. It's the opposite way around.

 

[dev1l]

This is exactly why it is the manager's responsibility. Woodward deals the money. To him it doesn't matter if its Dybala or Maguire or anyone else. It is the manager who decides who the player they select. If LVG has said he does not categorically want Di Maria there is no way the Board would have sanctioned it. LVG was OK with it so that is why they bought him. The same with Pogba and Maguire. It is the manager's choice. He is given a budget and then he decides the ones he wants or not.

My understanding is that there is some sort a transfer committee who suggests a short list of players for a particular position. Then the manager gives the go ahead. Then if Ed approves, Judge start negotiations. If the number one on the list is not available for the price the club is prepared to pay then they go back to the manager with the second player on the list.
I read somewhere that from the identification of a target till the signing is made, process can take up to 8 months....

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

My understanding is that there is some sort a transfer committee who suggests a short list of players for a particular position. Then the manager gives the go ahead. Then if Ed approves, Judge start negotiations. If the number one on the list is not available for the price the club is prepared to pay then they go back to the manager with the second player on the list.
I read somewhere that from the identification of a target till the signing is made, process can take up to 8 months....

Sounds about right that. It's a 5 man committee including the head scouts + manager and assistant.

 

[dev1l]

Nope. He was offered to us by Juve for Lukaku and that was about it. We weren't the one who approached Juve for him. It's the opposite way around.

What I know for sure is that ole is a Dybala fan, he sees him as the perfect false nine.
Also Ole was on record saying that he asked for a replacement for Lukaku

 

[UnofficialDevil]

One game? No, our pressing stat is pretty much up there. I chose one game as an example but we have other games where we do press well. We also run a lot to cover ground and force the ball into areas that interest us. Some say it's running without purpose, but I disagree, if anything, instructions are given and they seem to be pretty clear. We are one of the best pressing team per se in the league. Our problems are different but they do not come from the tactics regarding pressing.

But we have never pressed like Arsenal pressed us the other day just a two weeks after Arteta took over. Ole has been here more than a year and we cant play like that.

 

[Foxbatt]

Sure, but the manager doesn't solely decide how much to spend on a player. At least from what we know, the manager in our structure would sign off "yeah I like him" or "no I don't think he fits", and Woodward/Matt Judge would go out and execute the deal.

There are multiple problems with it, an obvious one is it being disjointed internally and us needing a DoF. The issue isn't solely on the manager in this instance though, it's more the infrastructure which drives the club.

This is the exact point I am making. It is not the manager who decides how much to spend. It is Woodward and the Board who decides how much they will spend. It is the Manager who decides which player he wants. No the Manager does not even sign off. He is the one who decides which player he wants. The scouts report to the Manager. Woodward does not decide which player he wants to play for the club. It is the manager.

 

[Cantona in disguise]

My understanding is that there is some sort a transfer committee who suggests a short list of players for a particular position. Then the manager gives the go ahead. Then if Ed approves, Judge start negotiations. If the number one on the list is not available for the price the club is prepared to pay then they go back to the manager with the second player on the list.
I read somewhere that from the identification of a target till the signing is made, process can take up to 8 months....

8 months is a long time in football.

 

[Skills]

Sounds about right that. It's a 5 man committee including the head scouts + manager and assistant.

Personally, I'd want a structure that keeps the manager away from the selection process. The managers role should be limited to identifying positions that need upgrading, but the actual selection process and who the club chooses should have little to do with him.

The idea behind this being, the club chooses the best possible players for their own needs irrespective of who the manager is at the time. If a manager like Mourinho wants a lump in his midfield, but the club finds/identifies a better player they should go for him. Then just change the manager, as per what the squad needs. Squads are far, far more valuable assets than managers, so you should be trying to assemble the best group of players possible and hiring the right coach for them to maximise your results.

 

[dev1l]

8 months is a long time in football.

Even one week is a lot of time...let alone 8 months

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I love Ole, and I'm never going to slag him off like some do on here.

But I just don't think he's good enough and with him in charge we're a club going nowhere.

I think he'll see out the season then we'll get someone new.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

I hope Ole’s taking notes from Bielsa right now on how a team should attack!

 

[Gasolin]

I hope Ole’s taking notes from Bielsa right now on how a team should attack!

He's a great manager, but he never changes the system once he found one. So then if a key player is out, another player is in and asked to perform exactly the same way, and sometimes, it doesn't work out...

 

[Tom Cato]

The article you have posted is literally basing it on report from the Sun who are copying it from Mail. Great sources, definitely more respectful than BBC or Telegraph.

As for what you wrote about transfers. You can write as much as you want, the fact if there's no targets asked by the manager no one is going to negotiate for them and thus we can't blame anyone in the board. We can blame the board when they fail to land the manager's target but that is not what happened. The reality is Ole got exactly all his top targets bar one (Longstaff) and that's about it. Were we negotiating with a top striker Ole asked for in summer and failed to land the deal? Nope. What is that related to what you are talking about then? Again what were Ole's targets that the board couldn't land to say they let him down?

There is a new club policy to not settle for the second best option if your primary target can not be had. We were top heavy on forward spot before the season started, then lukaku forced his way out and we could not secure a forward target. Jadon Sancho remains MUFC's top priority next transfer window along with a CM and AM

 

[el3mel]

There is a new club policy to not settle for the second best option if your primary target can not be had. We were top heavy on forward spot before the season started, then lukaku forced his way out and we could not secure a forward target. Jadon Sancho remains MUFC's top priority next transfer window along with a CM and AM

I thought I replied on that Lukaku part previously. How did he force his way out ? Pogba was trying to force his way out too with quotes in the media through him and his agents. Did he get his wish ? Nope. We were under no obligation to sell Lukaku, he was under contract and we could have forced him to stay for one more season and he would have nothing to do except shutting the feck up and playing till the next market to keep his stocks up, considering he was literally sold in the last 2 days of the market after we had already failed to sign a replacement, not that he was sold early and couldn't get a replacement for the remaining part of the summer, so simply could have called the deal off and forced him to stay till we get a replacement next market. We're in control of players position in the club as long as they're under contract not the opposite.

However the reality is Ole thought of Lukaku as a bench option as best for Rashford and Martial and his only choice to replace him was another backup option willing to set up on the bench like Mandzukic so it wasn't a big fuss for him letting him go without buying another player. We didn't try to get any top striker during the summer even though we were negotiating with Inter about Lukaku for the majority of the market.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

He's a great manager, but he never changes the system once he found one. So then if a key player is out, another player is in and asked to perform exactly the same way, and sometimes, it doesn't work out...

It’s not even about copying one system and sticking to it, Ole should just look at the patterns of play, the movement, how players are constantly showing for the ball and giving the man in possession of plenty of options. Making forward runs in the final 3rd when the player with the ball faces up the defence, surely he can at least take some of these aspects and coach them into our players? He has to and should be doing managing a club like United it’s a standard requirement.

 

[momo83]

I hope Ole’s taking notes from Bielsa right now on how a team should attack!

The work Biesla did at Leeds was/is amazing. Took an average hoof ball championship team that finished 14 and in one summer, with no signings (or very few) completely changed their style of play. None of that transition or needs money/windows excuses that frauds make. Let’s his actions and outcome do the talking.

 

[Mainoldo]

The article you have posted is literally basing it on report from the Sun who are copying it from Mail. Great sources, definitely more respectful than BBC or Telegraph.

As for what you wrote about transfers. You can write as much as you want, the fact if there's no targets asked by the manager no one is going to negotiate for them and thus we can't blame anyone in the board. We can blame the board when they fail to land the manager's target but that is not what happened. The reality is Ole got exactly all his top targets bar one (Longstaff) and that's about it. Were we negotiating with a top striker Ole asked for in summer and failed to land the deal? Nope. What is that related to what you are talking about then? Again what were Ole's targets that the board couldn't land to say they let him down?

Tbf as I remember it we didn’t want to pay the lawsuit fee and neither did Spurs. No shock though we are both tight when we want to be. Did Dybala want to come workout being paid handsomely probably not... but look at us. It was a fair request.. pay me stupid money or I’m staying.

 

[rotherham_red]

Tbf he did say decent, none of our managers post fergie have been good,

Moyes level is mid-table,

van Gaal was a good club manager about 10-20 years ago, I know he did well with Holland but international football is different, many managers not fit to manage top club sides have done well on the international scene.

Mourinho is a spent force and its showing with spurs who supposedly have a team better than ours and far more suited to how Mourinho wants to play but is still struggling.

Easy to say in hindsight, LvG was fresh from guiding one of the poorest Dutch sides in recent memory to 3rd place in the World Cup and Jose had won the league the season prior and both appointments were met with near universal acceptance and acclaim.

 

[the chameleon]

Easy to say in hindsight, LvG was fresh from guiding one of the poorest Dutch sides in recent memory to 3rd place in the World Cup and Jose had won the league the season prior and both appointments were met with near universal acceptance and acclaim.

You sound more like Rotterdam_red

 

[Mainoldo]

I hope Ole’s taking notes from Bielsa right now on how a team should attack!

Apparently we do though. I think the Ole supporter call it counter punch pressing.. something silly like that.