So much this. We need to stop looking to 'recreate' SAF. That is impossible.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Don't bow to the past. Embrace progress and move forward (tactics, training, player recruitment structure). But the punditry chairs and the in-house propaganda channel are geared towards marinating in the past. Just watching Ferdinand trying to totally avoid RVP's mild criticisms tells you all you need to know about the problems at and around United.
It may sound silly and non-important to some but it's a microcosm of the ineptitude...United's Youtube channel is dire. They easily have the worst content of any 'top' club in Europe. No clips with field sound of any training ever. Every other day, it looks like they're posting videos of 'Classic Games'. And they're over 1 million subscribers less than Liverpool. Would this matter if they were winning everything? No, but in 2020 most with-it teams are tech savvy and would never neglect this aspect of marketing and doesn't EW love his clickbait revenue...Youtube content is a big generator across platforms. They've lost the fight for the younger generation. It's over.
It may sound silly and non-important to some but it's a microcosm of the ineptitude...United's Youtube channel is dire. They easily have the worst content of any 'top' club in Europe. No clips with field sound of any training ever. Every other day, it looks like they're posting videos of 'Classic Games'. And they're over 1 million subscribers less than Liverpool. Would this matter if they were winning everything? No, but in 2020 most with-it teams are tech savvy and would never neglect this aspect of marketing and doesn't EW love his clickbait revenue...Youtube content is a big generator across platforms. They've lost the fight for the younger generation. It's over.
We're in danger of becoming Mojo Magazine in football form - a curated, 'legacy' club.
”It’s over”
because of our Youtube channel? ReallyI can't believe I read that too! It even got a 'like'.”It’s over”
In fairness, he mght mean - solely - that the club's pretty much given up on recruiting the next generation of fans. Complacency is a big problem at United, IMO.
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If there's no United Way, and just SAF's way, who was Sir Matt Busby then?
Yes you understood...hence the word microcosm of ineptitude. I forgot you had to guide certain people through each line.
Antiquated club trying to replicate past glory (while not playing an appealing style of football) and getting swamped at every level of the operation of the football club (e.g. Youtube content creation). Taken together, on the pitch, off the pitch...they've lost the people who are attracted to the club by success and style.
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/double
That United has only won the title under those two men in in the last fifty years proves his point, right? There is no United Way, no institutional philosophy that only succeeds when you have once in a lifetime phenomenal managers in charge, Real Madrid and Barcelona routinely win the league with average managers.
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Of course he is here because he was an ex player! He was never a career manager, but we wanted someone who knows the United way for the days of sir Alex Ferguson, and, while we have more than few players to choose from, he was the best option as a person to take the job. We had better players but it usually came with bigger ego, speaking of Giggs or Scholes in particular. Keane is no option, of course and Nevile gave it up. So, having someone from the golden years will revive our spirit and give us a boost. We already see it in big games, aside from Arsenal defeat we do well, once some inside situations are sorted we have every chance to move forward under Solskjaer. We can't really judge a manager based on a team he didn't want to put on the pitch every week. Liverpool would sack Klopp immediatly if they judged him as a manger based on the team he had when he took over, and he took over a lot younger and cheaper squad, easier to manage. We bloated our wage budget with big names and difficult players to work with, getting them out is not easy. Klopp only had to get rid of Sakho and Benteke to get started with rebuilding, he also didn't have massive pressure breathing down his neck. Some might say it's because Liverpool were shit for 20+ years that the pressure was so low for their new managers, but, over the last 6,7 years we've declined significantly and are in no position to demand trophies the first full season when the new manager takes over.
Give it time.
They have DOF's who stick to the club's principles, and hire managers based on the clubs plans. Barca and Real both have their own "ways". Ed and co have seen to it that there is no United identity anymore, that doesn't mean it never existed or it was only a SAF thing. Barca for example, have never moved away from Tiki-Taka possession football, and buy players/hire managers based on that style. United on the other hand, are just off the cuff, freestyling almost all the time.
Exactly. As i recall people thought the pool
got robbed by paying £34m for Salah and Mane when he was linked with United no one really wanted him as people thought he was just a speed merchant.
There is a reason why organisations ask for CVs and references before hiring someone, even clubs do that and both have the odd punt here and there based on gut feelings, sentiment etc. Liverpool in 2016 had a big reason to trust Klopp's processes because of his past achievements, what is it in Ole's past besides misguided sentiment that makes anyone think that three years and another half a billion in fees later he will take us to where we need to be? That he knows how the club operated twenty years ago or its just blind hope because on the pitch he is not showing it. Ole doesn't even have a tenth of Klopp's achievements before Liverpool and yet people want him to be granted the same benefit of the doubt as him!
The caf sometimes is just as bad as the Glazers and Woodward.
We insist on named signings from Europe without knowing what they can do.
When we signed Dan James no one was up for that.
We need to be realistic on who we can actually attract.
Look on the threads of what do we need and you will see plenty names mentioned that are just not possible.
What did Zinedine Zidane or Pep Guardiola achieve before being given charge of Real and Barca as managers?
There were a ton of people here who wanted us to sign Mane when we were linked to him during LVG's time.
Yep. Mane was fantastic at Southampton but because he played for them instead of a fancy foreign club, they all wanted the foreign name.
Those were the types of players Fergie used to sign then turn into stars. I feel Woodward had dreams of being Hollywood (which we all loved) but realistically we just aren’t/weren’t ready for it at that point.
losing David Gill at the same time as Fergie was absolutely what’s killed the club.
And both weren't moaning for several windows to achieve, they got their chance and got on with it. Ole actually failed and now wants to spend years buying average British talent for hundreds of millions and what if after all that there is nothing? This club doesn't have the luxury to indulge a manager, ex player or not. This is how empires collapse, they always fall from within because nepotism makes them tolerate mediocrity and outright incompetence whilst others catch up on them.
Let's ask what they achieved in their first 18 months?
They had Messi and Ronaldo.
Be that as it may be but their clubs still failed for them to get the opportunity and no one is even asking for Ole to win the CL but just show enough progression as a cohesive football team that has trained under the same manager for a year. League place take care of themselves after you get that right.
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For openings to come for Zidane and Guardiola previous managers still failed despite having Messi and Ronaldo on their books so in essence managers can still fail even when they have the BPITW in their squads.
Hopefully we can tell that to those clubs and they will employ Ole off us.
A lot! But they both had ready made, super elite squads (arguably 2 of the best teams ever)
The whole CV point is IMO still missing the main point, as people with no CV's have been hired to top clubs in the past and done well. The point should be, based on what you've already seen which is over a year of Ole, is he good enough?
And for me, the answer to that is no, not really.
And for me, the answer to that is no, not really.
True, I wanted Mane but l think we signed Memphis instead and l wasn't mad at that.
Again, this is untrue. A shit ton of people on the Caf, myself included, desperately wanted us to sign Mane to inject some much needed pace and directness into our attack.
It's not. You and a few others might have had sense but MANY didn't fancy him.
check the thread yourself
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/sadio-mané.408248/page-2
It seems that we were linked to Pedro at the time
wonder if they still have the same opinions now?Check what this guy thinks below
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/sadio-mané.408248/post-17977037
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Too true. Based on his managerial career so far at United, Is there anything, be it his style/tactics/leadership that would make other clubs at least close to our level take notice and say “let’s hope United make the stupid mistake of sacking this guy so we can pounce on him”? I think this is a question those in full support of him need to ask themselves. Take away the legend status and what sets up apart from Moyes, Allardyce and Pulis?
“Ninety-nine percent of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses.”
Haha wow.. The amount of "he's too inconsistent" or "not good enough" or "Nah get Pedro". Not gloating, but I myself did want Gucci Mane hereIt's not. You and a few others might have had sense but MANY didn't fancy him.
check the thread yourself
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/sadio-mané.408248/page-2
It seems that we were linked to Pedro at the time
Check what this guy thinks below
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/sadio-mané.408248/post-17977037
Hindsight is a funny thing isn't it. Whether he would have developed the same under LVG/Mourinho rather than Klopp is impossible to say, but some people were being very silly, IMO the guy was always going to be class.Haha wow.. The amount of "he's too inconsistent" or "not good enough" or "Nah get Pedro". Not gloating, but I myself did want Gucci Mane here
Exactly, but he played in the PL so he didnt have the same stats other players from Europe produce because they play in a lesser competitive league.
If you look at the CB situation, in the summer the names mentioned across Europe who would be £60m is unreal when no ones seen them play regularly.
They would come to the league take 1 season to adapt and will be called a flop and what not.
To think we chose Depay over Mane! Hindsight can be painful too!
Hindsight can also be made up bull. We wanted a RW failed with Pedro, turned to Mane... and decided against that money then we brought Martial.
Depay was signed in May.
Generals always fight the last war. As another OP said Ole is trying to play the way he played in the 90s. Now football has evolved so it needs new ways.
Furthermore he doesn't have the capacity to coach a team that needs to be challenging for trophies.
Furthermore he doesn't have the capacity to coach a team that needs to be challenging for trophies.
Somehow the people that support Ole constantly fail to recognize that the most important reason why people want him gone is because Ole has been here for over a year and our style of play is nothing like he said it would be.
A year has gone now with Ole as the manager. And the only time we look dangerous in matches is when we're counter attacking or Rashford has the ball (individual brilliance). A good manager doesn't need 3 or 4 transfer windows to be able to set up a side that knows what to do when they have possession.
You can blame it on the lack of creativity or whatever but I remember the end of last season when we faced already relegated Huddersfield and Cardiff WITH Pogba, win those two games and we would be talking about Champions league football. So how come we lost those games with better players than our opponents. This season Watford beat us at their worst and they didn't park the bus to do that.
I keep saying that 5th actually is a befitting position for the team considering the injuries and quality of players. But Not being in top 4 isn't the problem, the problem is after a year our manager set us up to look dangerous only when counter attacking or our best player has the ball.
A year has gone now with Ole as the manager. And the only time we look dangerous in matches is when we're counter attacking or Rashford has the ball (individual brilliance). A good manager doesn't need 3 or 4 transfer windows to be able to set up a side that knows what to do when they have possession.
You can blame it on the lack of creativity or whatever but I remember the end of last season when we faced already relegated Huddersfield and Cardiff WITH Pogba, win those two games and we would be talking about Champions league football. So how come we lost those games with better players than our opponents. This season Watford beat us at their worst and they didn't park the bus to do that.
I keep saying that 5th actually is a befitting position for the team considering the injuries and quality of players. But Not being in top 4 isn't the problem, the problem is after a year our manager set us up to look dangerous only when counter attacking or our best player has the ball.
I dont remember us playing this shitty in the 90s.
Really hoping that if Ole is sacked we get Neville since he has coaching experience and understands the United way and culture. With a couple of players that are the right fit for the United way I'm sure Neville can achieve alot
Yeah right. He had very similar stats that he had in Austria, like a goal every 2.something games. He was playing very, very well at Southampton, not struggling for stats because he was playing in an amazingly competitive league.
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